She went crazy

[jnj express]

Are there any children involved in the home you are trying to wreck----If so---I don't care how much in love the 2 of you are---it needs to stop, and stop right now

 

You say you have loved the woman you are cheating with for 30 years----do you think somewhere along the line your wife has picked up on this, and that may have keyed her cheating

[LittleTiger]

I'm just not able to let go of what we (me & STBXW) used to have - like I keep thinking it's going to change and go back to what it was. It won't. I know that. It would just be easier to accept if we disliked each other. If things were bad between us, but they're usually not. Most of the time, we get along great, have an ton of fun together, enjoy being with each other. ... and, yeah, we have 17 years of practice, so, the sex is awesome too.

 

First you say this ^^^^^

 

As for deserving - you are right, I have never been the type of man who deserves a woman like my wife. Maybe there is a child molesting, nun raping, serial killer somewhere who deserves a woman like her. ... but a guy like me? No. I never earned this. I treated her like a princess, gave all of me to her, up to and including after D-day, after an additional 18 months of lies & deceit...

 

And I STILL don't deserve a woman like her.

 

Then a couple of posts later you say this ^^^^^

 

I don't get it.

 

It sounds like you're talking about two completely different women to me. One is a good friend, companion and lover. The other is someone you loathe and despise.

 

So what's the story? If you don't dislike her, why are you saying such horrible things about her and if she's always been such a terrible person, why did you marry her in the first place?

 

OW? ... been in love with her for 30+ years, lost her, have her back again. Can't see letting her go either.

 

Your poor wife - married for 17 years to a man who was in love with another woman. Your marriage never stood a chance then - I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. You've probably been 'waiting' all that time to get your chance again with the 'real love' you 'lost' so long ago?! If your wife didn't know she wasn't your first choice in the early days (though she probably sensed it), she sure as hell does now!

 

Right now... having my cake & eating it too. Paying the price for it some times.

 

Not good.

 

No, not good at all.

 

Your wife clearly has psychological problems and she needs help, so what's your excuse?

[SoMovinOn]

Are there any children involved in the home you are trying to wreck

 

Nope. Neither of us has kids at home. She never had any. Mine are grown, on their own, married, and have kids of their own.

 

You say you have loved the woman you are cheating with for 30 years----do you think somewhere along the line your wife has picked up on this, and that may have keyed her cheating

 

No. I know for a fact it had nothing to do with anything. I had given up on the idea I'd ever see this woman again before I got married. She was just a fond memory until earlier this year - long after D-Day. I was a model husband up until D-Day, through our reconciliation, up to the day we agreed to split.

 

The reasons for STBXW's infidelity were all her own. Had nothing to do with me.

[SoMovinOn]

First you say this ^^^^^

Then a couple of posts later you say this ^^^^^

I don't get it.

 

It sounds like you're talking about two completely different women to me. One is a good friend, companion and lover. The other is someone you loathe and despise.

 

So what's the story? If you don't dislike her, why are you saying such horrible things about her and if she's always been such a terrible person, why did you marry her in the first place?

 

I'm not sure why you're confused. I post here because I get frustrated. I get frustrated because my STBXW *is* both of those women. I never know which I am dealing with until she opens her mouth. We can have the same conversation two days in a row, with extremely different results each time.

 

When she is "well", I have a hard time understanding why she chose to destroy our marriage. When she is "not well", I have a hard time understanding why I do anything for her at all.

 

Why did I marry her? If you haven't already picked up on this, she and I are a bit... different. We were the perfect pair for the first 15 years of our marriage.

 

Your poor wife - married for 17 years to a man who was in love with another woman. Your marriage never stood a chance then - I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. You've probably been 'waiting' all that time to get your chance again with the 'real love' you 'lost' so long ago?! If your wife didn't know she wasn't your first choice in the early days (though she probably sensed it), she sure as hell does now!

 

Oh Jeezus. A LOT of people hold fond memories of a past love. That doesn't mean your marriage never had a chance. What a ridiculous exaggeration of reality.

 

No. I wasn't waiting all that time for the return of my lost love. I assumed she was married, had kids, and was living her life, as I was mine. I had no though I'd ever see her or talk to her again.

 

 

Your wife clearly has psychological problems and she needs help, so what's your excuse?

 

I'm married to a woman who has psychological problems and needs help, so I get frustrated, I get confused as to who I am dealing with at any given moment and as to what might be the best I can do for her under those circumstances.

 

Some people have suggested a "sink or swim" approach would be best. Throw her out in the world on her own, let her fend for herself and live with the consequences of her choices and actions. Maybe they're right, but I can't see doing that to her. I will exhaust every other option before doing so.

[jnj express]

You obviously have feelings for your wife----I don't know what you will decide to do---BUT---you should back out of your A., cuz you are hurting an innocent man on the other side

 

Have one last conversation with your A. partner---see what she intends to do, and then go NC---If you both want each other, then the proper/only moral way to do this is for both of you to divorce your spouses

 

Till that happens stay NC, with the A., and see how your marital situation plays out

[The-Zen-Warrior]

SoMovinOn : I would so love to get you off to the side and introduce you to my Temple Master! I would love to hear what a Buddhist Master of 43 years would say about your situation!

 

I know when I'm going through some externally and internally created A** run around situation like yours, never been through yours, but if I was I would grab a very plush comfortable area rug, a couple votive candles, a had full of "China Rain" and play some nice New Age or Zen or Meditative music in the background.

 

I would start by lighting some China Rain and let the nice smelling smoke flourish through the room, next light the candle and place it in front of you all the while sitting on that plush rug. I would try to calm my mind, slow things down and just concentrate on the two women of your life. Try to block the urge of creating any a** run around excuses like I've seen many from you. Rather just be in the moment, clear your mind of everything that is not of these two women. Don't think about your job, don't think about the next big game on tv, don't worry about if you paid that last electric bill or not, nothing, nothing but thinking about these two women.

 

In your mind look at each, and for each, start making yourself a mental "pro's & cons" list, nothing to fancy, keep it simple. Think about each ones "strengths" and "weaknesses", think about this for a good long time, at the end, after your done with your mental "pro's and con's" list you will have your logical answer. I use this tactic on many different occasions, on things other than which woman do I want to be with! I never get myself caught up in "pickles" like yours. It helps if people in your situation can keep things calm, cool and collected. It helps if people in your situation, if they can maintain some level of objectivity and keep their eyes on the truth and the logic that is born from that truth.

 

In the end, when everything is over, both your situation and life itself, in the end we will have our own Karma to answer to and deal with. Don't do to much in life that would put one in a "owing the universe" a couple thing, rather try to have a "surplus of good Jud-Ju"! Knowing what is "RIGHT and knowing what is WRONG will guide you. I'm not going to take your inventory, it's really not my place to tell you that you are right or wrong, only you know the truth to that question.

 

Are you being honest and true to yourself? Are you being honest and true to your wife? Are you being honest and true with your Girl Friend? Are you being honest and true to your Girl Friends Husband? So many scenarios, so many technicals, so many hypotheticals, so many shadows and so much darkness.

 

Kind of hard to gauge all this when your answer to this whole thing is......

 

A WHISPER IN THE WIND!

 

I hope your listening to the wind.......

[SoMovinOn]

SoMovinOn : I would so love to get you off to the side and introduce you to my Temple Master! I would love to hear what a Buddhist Master of 43 years would say about your situation!

 

I've never talked to a Buddhist Master that I am aware of, but, if I were to guess, I would think he'd say pretty much the same things as some of the replies I have gotten here.

 

Yours is definitely to coolest response I've seen. I appreciate you sharing it with me. It's not something I'd have thought to do on my own, although I have done some "informal" meditation in the past.

 

I would say though, in my current situation - I know full well what the "right" answers are, and what I am doing wrong. I know what and who I would choose if it were only my choice that mattered. My "problem" at this point is that I am unwilling to do what is right, and trying to figure out how to deal with, and live with, doing what is wrong.

 

When I listen to the wind, it tells me this is going to end badly - for all of us.

[The-Zen-Warrior]

When I listen to the wind, it tells me this is going to end badly - for all of us.

 

When I think about your situation, and I tap into the universal energy that drifts like a wind across the Planet Earth, I feel the truth in what you say "this is going to end"!

 

But how is this going to end? now there's the question! It ends well, it ends badly.....................it's all a state of mind if you ask me!

[You Go Girl]

I admit I was quite a bit rough in my earlier post. I didn't know that you weren't having sex with the OW.

But that fact doesn't really matter, not in the big picture of things.

 

Your wife is unstable at this point. Did she bring that on herself? Why,yes she did!

However, she apparently has few coping skills in life. This is just a fact, not a reflection of you.

You, as a person, have a responsibility here because you are married to her, whether she brought it on herself or not hardly matters.

To some degree, you are holding this person's life in your hands. Don't toy with it, because if she did kill herself, then you would be partly responsible. Do you understand the gravity now of your responsibility?

What this means is, you cannot have sex with your wife, then go on a date with your gf.

You are tormenting and torturing your wife. I know, I know, she's guilty, and you're fulfilling your revenge. But she can't handle it, she has no coping skills and is --in your words--completely dependent on you both financially and emotionally.

To torture your wife this way, when you fully know her dependancy and lack of skills, is incredibly cruel.

Just because you're stronger at this point doesn't mean that you go for the kill.

Have some compassion for humankind. Yeah, she's a weakling that cheated.

But I sure wouldn't want it on my shoulders if somebody were to kill themselves because of the dynamics of my relationship with them.

Send her back to her parents or wherever she can go that the person is going to take care of her while she has her full mental breakdown.

[Tayla]

I respectfully disagree in some ways with You go Girls response.

1: Unless he is assisting her and it can be proven by law, he is not liable or negligent for his wifes' mental instability or attempts of suicide. Please stop placing any more guilt then this man is already enduring.

2: Why should he tolerate unacceptable behavior?

 

I will agree that he needs to wash his hands of this matter entirely. He likes to play the argumentative game here when suggestions are made. That is his choice. I just figure a guy like him will go when the pain is deep enough and the living circumstances have no further payoff. Even sick relationships have a payoff for one of the partners.

[You Go Girl]

I respectfully disagree in some ways with You go Girls response.

1: Unless he is assisting her and it can be proven by law, he is not liable or negligent for his wifes' mental instability or attempts of suicide. Please stop placing any more guilt then this man is already enduring.

2: Why should he tolerate unacceptable behavior?

 

I will agree that he needs to wash his hands of this matter entirely. He likes to play the argumentative game here when suggestions are made. That is his choice. I just figure a guy like him will go when the pain is deep enough and the living circumstances have no further payoff. Even sick relationships have a payoff for one of the partners.

 

In no way was I implying a legal responsibility. I was pointing out the moral one.

[SoMovinOn]

He likes to play the argumentative game here when suggestions are made.

 

I'm sorry. I don't mean to come across that way. You know I have this battle/argument in my own head, pretty much all the time. By writing it out, getting responses (most of which say what I already know)... it's my way of working through it or dealing with it.

 

I very much appreciate all the responses I get here, even those where I seem to disagree.

[SoMovinOn]

I admit I was quite a bit rough in my earlier post.

 

No more so that I am on myself at times. I appreciate your directness. I certainly didn't come here expecting anyone to pat my back and tell me what a great job I'm doing.

 

I didn't know that you weren't having sex with the OW.

But that fact doesn't really matter, not in the big picture of things.

 

True, and, the reality is, we would if we could.

 

You, as a person, have a responsibility here because you are married to her, whether she brought it on herself or not hardly matters.

 

I agree. It is why I am still here (with her) and why I try to help her. I screw up some times - I really have no idea what I'm doing, but I do the best I can.

 

 

To some degree, you are holding this person's life in your hands. Don't toy with it, because if she did kill herself, then you would be partly responsible. Do you understand the gravity now of your responsibility?

 

Yes I do. However, if she were to kill herself, I would not feel in any way responsible.

 

What this means is, you cannot have sex with your wife, then go on a date with your gf.

 

That doesn't happen. GF is a lunch only thing. Whereas I was very open and honest with my wife about it initially, I decided it was actually detrimental (to all of us). So, now, she "knows", but I no longer say anything to her about it. If I go to lunch w/OW, I do it when I am gone for other reasons.

 

 

You are tormenting and torturing your wife. I know, I know, she's guilty, and you're fulfilling your revenge. But she can't handle it, she has no coping skills and is --in your words--completely dependent on you both financially and emotionally.

 

That's where I run into problems. SHE wanted to leave - so, after 15 months of *me* trying to reconcile, I finally agreed we should separate - because I thought that was what SHE wanted. I thought it would help her.

 

She was hung up on her last fling (my best friend). I told her when we agreed to split, she was free to do whatever she wanted. I thought it would help her. He rejected her. She went after some other meat she had her eyes on. Fine. She's doing what she wants. Meet someone. Go be with them. Be happy. Zero interference from me.

 

I expected the same respect from her. I didn't get it. The whole dating thing while we're together just doesn't work. I knew it would be awkward, difficult. I knew we'd have to change the rules and tweak things. ... but ... for now, it's best if I let her do whatever she wants, and if I don't tell her anything about what I'm doing. I hate that. A lie of omission is still a lie, and I hate lying.

 

 

Just because you're stronger at this point doesn't mean that you go for the kill.

 

I really don't see me doing that.

 

Send her back to her parents or wherever she can go that the person is going to take care of her while she has her full mental breakdown.

 

Dysfunctional family. (surprise surprise)

She disowned them and quit speaking to them all years ago. Parents are now deceased. Anyone friends she had, she has alienated. I am all she has. That's not good for either of us.

 

I would have loved to have been everything to her forever. That was the plan.

[You Go Girl]

I think this is beyond the help of LS and has to be with a professional. Perhaps a psychologist can point her to some women's resources for starting over in life too.

[SoMovinOn]

I think this is beyond the help of LS and has to be with a professional. Perhaps a psychologist can point her to some women's resources for starting over in life too.

 

She goes to a psychologist weekly. It seems to be helping her.

 

I don't come here so much to figure out how to help her, I come here to work through everything so I can deal with it.

 

I have considered making an appointment with her shrink to ask him for advice on what I can/should do to help her. I don't know if he'd do that. I wouldn't want him to talk to me about anything they talk about - just tell me what I might do for her.

[You Go Girl]

She goes to a psychologist weekly. It seems to be helping her.

 

I don't come here so much to figure out how to help her, I come here to work through everything so I can deal with it.

 

I have considered making an appointment with her shrink to ask him for advice on what I can/should do to help her. I don't know if he'd do that. I wouldn't want him to talk to me about anything they talk about - just tell me what I might do for her.

 

Well I must reiterate what some other poster pointed out to you, that it's a very bad idea to keep having sex with her.

Think about sexuality--one is receiving, one is invading on some basic level--one has little at stake--another is giving up perhaps 9 months of their life as secondary to feeding the growing being inside them--and then years of caretaking afterward.

Sex is not equal between the genders.

When a woman has sex with you, she is giving herself to you. So much more is at stake for her on a very basic level, but one that indeed transpires to the higher levels of emotions, purpose, and life aim.

This is true for most women, albeit not all.

So take that into consideration. When she has sex with you---SHE IS giving herself to you, and you are accepting that gift.

What this does to her mentally is far more of an investment in you--the male--than men are investing in the female.

So, if you care for her but don't want her as your wife in the future--stop having sex with her. It is sending her mixed signals, and it is f*king with her head at a very basic level for a woman.

[LittleTiger]

Well I must reiterate what some other poster pointed out to you, that it's a very bad idea to keep having sex with her.

Think about sexuality--one is receiving, one is invading on some basic level--one has little at stake--another is giving up perhaps 9 months of their life as secondary to feeding the growing being inside them--and then years of caretaking afterward.

Sex is not equal between the genders.

When a woman has sex with you, she is giving herself to you. So much more is at stake for her on a very basic level, but one that indeed transpires to the higher levels of emotions, purpose, and life aim.

This is true for most women, albeit not all.

So take that into consideration. When she has sex with you---SHE IS giving herself to you, and you are accepting that gift.

What this does to her mentally is far more of an investment in you--the male--than men are investing in the female.

So, if you care for her but don't want her as your wife in the future--stop having sex with her. It is sending her mixed signals, and it is f*king with her head at a very basic level for a woman.

 

Exactly! Well said YGG.

 

SMO, you know your wife is having psychological problems. If you continue to have sex with her then you are at least partly responsible for her mental state, whether you like it or not.

 

So stop your cake eating at her expense. Whatever she has done she doesn't deserve to be used like an old rag that you can throw away when you're done. If you no longer want her, what you're doing is heartless and cruel.

[BB07]

Well I must reiterate what some other poster pointed out to you, that it's a very bad idea to keep having sex with her.

Think about sexuality--one is receiving, one is invading on some basic level--one has little at stake--another is giving up perhaps 9 months of their life as secondary to feeding the growing being inside them--and then years of caretaking afterward.

Sex is not equal between the genders.

When a woman has sex with you, she is giving herself to you. So much more is at stake for her on a very basic level, but one that indeed transpires to the higher levels of emotions, purpose, and life aim.

This is true for most women, albeit not all.

So take that into consideration. When she has sex with you---SHE IS giving herself to you, and you are accepting that gift.

What this does to her mentally is far more of an investment in you--the male--than men are investing in the female.

So, if you care for her but don't want her as your wife in the future--stop having sex with her. It is sending her mixed signals, and it is f*king with her head at a very basic level for a woman.

 

Exactly! Well said YGG.

 

SMO, you know your wife is having psychological problems. If you continue to have sex with her then you are at least partly responsible for her mental state, whether you like it or not.

 

So stop your cake eating at her expense. Whatever she has done she doesn't deserve to be used like an old rag that you can throw away when you're done. If you no longer want her, what you're doing is heartless and cruel.

 

 

Agree, to me this sounds so cruel and that you have no regard for her as a woman. Her cheating is no justification for you using her in this way and frankly if this is the kind of man you were during your marriage, maybe it shouldn't come as a big surprise that she cheated.

[SoMovinOn]

Agree, to me this sounds so cruel and that you have no regard for her as a woman. Her cheating is no justification for you using her in this way and frankly if this is the kind of man you were during your marriage, maybe it shouldn't come as a big surprise that she cheated.

 

Also to YGG & Little Tiger...

 

I have no idea how to explain this. <pondering> ... obviously, we're a bit "different"... I don't think these ideas and comments would apply to her. Sex means little to her in that regard (which *is* why she cheated on me - NOTHING to do with me, how I am, or how I treated her.) Her first time meeting a guy whom she has spoken to online or on the phone is almost always going to include at least a BJ (probably in a public restroom). In some cases, sex. In one case, spending the night - which included her bringing along a bag of "stuff" (duct tape, handcuffs, whips, floggers...) ... All deposits are made orally or through the back door - so she definitely doesn't have that "Potential Mommy" sense going on.

 

I don't particularly have sex with her because *I* want to. I occasionally have minimal interest in her in that regard, most often none at all. I do it more because she seems to do best, and want, a sense of things being the same. I have actually tried to suggest a "separate but living together" and it just doesn't go well.

[LittleTiger]

Also to YGG & Little Tiger...

 

I have no idea how to explain this. <pondering> ... obviously, we're a bit "different"... I don't think these ideas and comments would apply to her. Sex means little to her in that regard (which *is* why she cheated on me - NOTHING to do with me, how I am, or how I treated her.) Her first time meeting a guy whom she has spoken to online or on the phone is almost always going to include at least a BJ (probably in a public restroom). In some cases, sex. In one case, spending the night - which included her bringing along a bag of "stuff" (duct tape, handcuffs, whips, floggers...) ... All deposits are made orally or through the back door - so she definitely doesn't have that "Potential Mommy" sense going on.

 

I don't particularly have sex with her because *I* want to. I occasionally have minimal interest in her in that regard, most often none at all. I do it more because she seems to do best, and want, a sense of things being the same. I have actually tried to suggest a "separate but living together" and it just doesn't go well.

 

Don't kid yourself SMO.

 

This sounds to me like your wife has serious self-esteem issues and she is either using sex as validation for her self-worth or believes she is worth nothing and therefore allows herself to be treated as a sex toy by men she doesn't know. Or maybe she's a sex addict, though I don't know much about that. Whatever the reason, there is something very sad about this whole situation.

 

Has she behaved in this way for most of your marriage or is this just a recent thing? I don't remember everything you've said about her but is there any abuse in her childhood, or has she ever been the victim of rape? Either of these could explain her attitude to sex.

 

It's even possible that she feels so bad about herself after these encounters that she feels the need to have sex with you in order to balance out what she's doing with some normality. Maybe she still feels special in some way when she is with you.

 

Whatever is going on you really do need to stop having sex with her - presumably you are using protection if she is having sex with so many casual partners?

 

If your marriage was good at some point in the past, I would bet she sees sex with you as something very different from what she's doing with these other men. There is an emotional attachment still on her side - the fact that she wants 'a sense of things being the same' proves that. If you're not using her then it's 'pity sex' and either way, it's wrong.

 

You can provide a roof over her head, put food on the table and even offer a shoulder to cry on, but for her sake DO NOT have sex with her - not unless you still love her and want your marriage to be saved. In which case what the h*ll are you doing with the other woman?

[You Go Girl]

Littletiger nailed that.

Women don't and won't just give away sex like it's Christmas presents to the crowd.

Don't kid yourself--yup!

 

Sex is obviously part of her messed up head. Don't add to it by making your sex life "normal" to what you have had.

You're divorcing the woman! There is no more "normal" around your household and marriage.

 

She's a piece of work, but that doesn't mean you should add to the madness. She needs HELP.

Your having sex with her isn't helping her see reality one iota.

[SoMovinOn]

OK. No sex for almost a week now, but I haven't told her it's on purpose. The first couple of days were fine, but since then, it's getting more difficult. Normal for us is ever couple of days, at least. It's bothering her enough now that she said something about it. I'm afraid if I tell her the truth - that we shouldn't because we are splitting up, she might flip out, have an "episode", get very depressed, or, at the very least, we'd end up fighting about it all night. So, I lied, told her I'm not feeling well.

 

She wanted to go out tonight. As she was getting ready, I busied myself in the garage. She came out to ask me if I was coming. Told her I hadn't planned on it. Then she started asking me what I wanted to do. Told her staying home was fine with me, but she could go if she like. Said she was considering going to an event at a theater (movie and some other stuff). Asked me where I'd go if I were taking someone on a date. Responded (thinking of my G/F) "Probably out for a nice dinner, a few drinks, then to her place for some romance"

 

Her response was "Well, we already had dinner. I can get undressed and we can stay home if you like."

 

Wanting to avoid, a lot of things, I finally said "I'll take you to the event at the theater if you like."

 

It was awkward. I really didn't feel like going out. Not with her. She seemed so happy and in such a good mood. I didn't want to change that.

[LittleTiger]

Great that you're not having sex with her, SMO.

 

Not great that you're still being dishonest.

 

How long, exactly, do you think you can 'pretend' that you're not splitting up? If it's going to happen, she has to know sometime. You can't NOT tell her just because you're afraid of how she's going to react - she will react badly whenever it is. Or are you just wanting to make sure you can walk away when you do tell her instead of being 'stuck' in the same house?

 

Or are you still not sure whether you really want to give up on your marriage?

 

If you don't want your wife any more you have to 'man-up' and tell her.

 

The longer you drag this out the more difficult it will be for her - I know, because I'm speaking from experience.

 

My marriage took a good four years to end. We pretended to 'split up' a few times (carried on living together), then got back together etc. Long story! The single most painful thing about that whole sorry, drawn out episode of my life, was that my ex didn't have the guts to be honest with me.

 

When he finally dropped the bombshell it nearly destroyed me.

 

You're nudging forward in the right direction, so well done for making a start. Now put your foot down and make it as painless as possible for both of you.

[The-Zen-Warrior]

but I'm afraid if I tell her the truth - that we shouldn't because we are splitting up, she might flip out, have an "episode", get very depressed, or, at the very least, we'd end up fighting about it all night. So, I lied, told her I'm not feeling well.

 

Well, I can not just sit on the sidelines here, and not chime in on some words you said. See the above quote from you, see what I put some "bold text" on, some key words?

 

Think about those key words, I'm afraid and I lie, hum....I might just be stupid here, or maybe not knowing what I talk about, or something. But I think I learned somewhere, that nothing good can come when one acts out of fear. Also I have learned that nothing good can come from a lie!

 

Continue down this road of being afraid, having to much fear to tell the truth and in the end continuing to live a lie.................continue this and you will spell your doom!

[SoMovinOn]

Tiger & Zen... She know's we're splitting up. We've discussed that in detail. She's been looking at places to rent. It's not that she doesn't know it. It's that it seems to create problems if I remind her of it. That's why I lied.

 

The no sex thing went to hell. I'm a heavy sleeper and that's how she woke me up this morning. : (