TinaniT Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 As I've mentioned before, my love and I are attending premarital counseling together. (I am still attending IC as well; he felt comfortable concluding it.) We have been going over of late some marriage compatibility questions. Of course, by some I actually mean a stack of paper with questions and hypotheticals the therapist pulls out that makes Great Expectations look like a short story. Some of it we had discussed; but a lot of it we had not. There has been some surprising answers/discrepancies! (Nothing overwhelming, but things on each of our parts that warranted discussion) I am a little embarrassed that we had not discussed this stuff previously, even as we fantasized about our lives together and discussed some of the ones that do point to high compatibility. Part of it, I'm sure, is due to the speed to which we progressed. Part of that, I must confess, is probably due to us both being married when we met. It does put a sort of pressure when you are doing the relationship dreaming while taking actions to end another relationship. Nothing has made me love my partner any less or doubt my decisions (in fact as we work through them and I see his sensitivity and forthrightness in that, it only reinforces them.) But it has been surprising, and there has been some butting of the heads, especially in regards to decisions involved with raising children. (For example, I tend to believe in teaching responsible decisions and using protection to teenagers and mostly honesty, as appropriate for their age group, about own decisions; he believes in abstinence only education, period.) Some of it has to do with attitudes in relationships. (I am more trusting and forgiving of many things with both children and partners; which I knew, but it highlighted the degree) I know a lot of OW here discuss their future lives together; how they will go; etc. I was wondering, have many of you have discussed the concrete and hard questions of the minutia of the future relationship? It may be worth doing! I am finding it helpful and drawing us closer. It is not quite as romantic as the how good it was going to be and the surface level agreements we had before but it is comforting in seeing how we work through disagreements and knowing that he means to make sure everything works for the long haul this time!! (I accept some of you OW who are longer term OW may have been up and down this a million times- but couldn't hurt to post! I know for me and him, had we stayed OW and MM, we probably could have gone a long time without discussing this kind of "less fun" stuff with all the love and fun we have together living day to day life.) I can't find what the therapist is using. He may have developed it himself. But there are a lot of lists of hundreds of questions at various places or in books, I know.
greengoddess Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 lol does he not see the contradiction in his beliefs and his actions? He believes in abstinance only education when he carried on an affair? Obviously he was taught he should not have sex outside of marriage and should honor his vows. That alone would let you believe it doesn't matter what you teach people will do what they want to do. I hope you got him to see your way on this one. If you want kids you absolutely have to believe together the proper way to raise them. You have to agree on this.
Author TinaniT Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 lol does he not see the contradiction in his beliefs and his actions? He believes in abstinance only education when he carried on an affair? Obviously he was taught he should not have sex outside of marriage and should honor his vows. That alone would let you believe it doesn't matter what you teach people will do what they want to do. I hope you got him to see your way on this one. If you want kids you absolutely have to believe together the proper way to raise them. You have to agree on this. We are in the premarital counseling to help mesh all our views. I think it's the same old, wanting better for your kids than yourselves. In high school, I partook in recreational drug use. I am not proud of that, and I definitely do not want my kids to do the same!
greengoddess Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 We are in the premarital counseling to help mesh all our views. I think it's the same old, wanting better for your kids than yourselves. In high school, I partook in recreational drug use. I am not proud of that, and I definitely do not want my kids to do the same! of course you want better for your kids but teaching abstinance does not make it so. I find that really humorous that a man involved in an affair believes in abstinance only education. :laugh:Not being mean either. I just find it so contradictoryto beliefs and actions that it's funny.
Author TinaniT Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 of course you want better for your kids but teaching abstinance does not make it so. I find that really humorous that a man involved in an affair believes in abstinance only education. :laugh:Not being mean either. I just find it so contradictoryto beliefs and actions that it's funny. Yes, I can see that. Brought it up myself! The extramarital affair was hard on him, however; hence the swiftness in changing the situation. For him, even moreso than me, I think he considers the way he went about it to be a definite mistake on his part that got compounded by falling in love. Also, he believes it's not always best for children to give them the "minimum" standards they can get away with but something to strive for. I believe being overly strict is negative as well, but I do know the minimum standards is not the way to go either (I was a minimum standards girl and I did everything I could get away with and not a cent further or less) - all stuff we are talking through now with the therapist, to much satisfaction. Which is, however, somewhat my point in the thread. By assumption, I wouldn't assume that is what he believed and now we know and can work through it. I should have used a different example. That one is bound to distract and wasn't really looking for another "principle" thread about something related to what I posted. My bad for not enough forethought!
Silly_Girl Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Actually T, I was hoping you'd post more examples. Not because I'm nosey (though naturally, I am!) but because I was interested. Money is the thing we would be most likely to clash on. Not how much is spent, we're very similar there, but the treatment (joint accounts? joint contribution? etc). Plus it would be new for him not to be the higher earner. Parenting is not a big issue as he has none and my lad's the easiest in the world to raise. Just curious as to what else actually matter much, if at all?
Author TinaniT Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) Actually T, I was hoping you'd post more examples. Not because I'm nosey (though naturally, I am!) but because I was interested. Money is the thing we would be most likely to clash on. Not how much is spent, we're very similar there, but the treatment (joint accounts? joint contribution? etc). Plus it would be new for him not to be the higher earner. Parenting is not a big issue as he has none and my lad's the easiest in the world to raise. Just curious as to what else actually matter much, if at all? You know, my son is so far very easy too, and a lot of parenting decisions we agree on but there are some we are off on... He tends to be "stricter" than I am in a lot of decisions. Money is not an issue with us though there were toooons of questions there. He would be the sole earner but believes in me having complete access and stronger say on decisions in managing the household. Family influence, how to respond on different situations. How much influence family can have, etc. The therapist had us go over questions specific to our affair, too, as it relates to how people react, and our age difference -- make sure we are on the same page as to how to respond, what we tell people, how we will feel because of those reactions. There were questions on if one gets seriously ill, how the other partner responds, if one partner dies before the other, taking jobs far away, importance of God, how to respond to sex and changing needs, etc. The hypothetical situations covered a lot more there, too. A lot of things covered did not react in any disagreement... it was more the discussion. You can google and find some more... From broad to specific and maybe trivial for some, issues. Money, importance of material possessions, parenting -values and best way to instill those values, interactions, allowance, hobbies encouraged and allowed, school, etc -, cleanliness, social importance/outlook, sleeping habits, nature (busy, laid-back, etc), division of household chores, views on prenuptials and divorce, etc. Oh it goes on and on what he is having us discuss (some are very quick, some we have already discussed, some take more.) I'm sure he has more next session! Haha! Edited September 9, 2010 by TinaniT
Silly_Girl Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Wow!! To be honest, I'm not sure I WANT to google!!!
Author TinaniT Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 Wow!! To be honest, I'm not sure I WANT to google!!! If it helps make sure what we have is something that lasts, anything! Nah, we have joked with each other about it but it really has felt supremely helpful. The disagreements have been surprising but the agreements are far more common and everything feels solidified. I'm not always sure the therapist adds much to just the discussions but, hey, an expert can't hurt., and makes sure everything is discussed.
Silly_Girl Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 If it helps make sure what we have is something that lasts, anything! Nah, we have joked with each other about it but it really has felt supremely helpful. The disagreements have been surprising but the agreements are far more common and everything feels solidified. I'm not always sure the therapist adds much to just the discussions but, hey, an expert can't hurt., and makes sure everything is discussed. Oh goodness. Please don't think I'm dissin' you guys!! No. I think people SHOULD work hard at the R. Any committed R. We're just not yet at that stage. We've talked a lot about routines, space, bad habits, things we THINK we want, things we think we don't want that actually are probably good for us, family (parents/siblings) stuff, differences and similarities in cultural preferences. But there's a lot of real-life, practical and long-term stuff there's no way we'd have started thinking about yet.
2sunny Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 If it helps make sure what we have is something that lasts, anything! Nah, we have joked with each other about it but it really has felt supremely helpful. The disagreements have been surprising but the agreements are far more common and everything feels solidified. I'm not always sure the therapist adds much to just the discussions but, hey, an expert can't hurt., and makes sure everything is discussed. you are fooling yourselves. when push comes to shove - anyone can answer with anything they think the other person WANTS or NEEDS to hear. it's only helpful IF BOTH parties answer honestly...without reservation...and THAT is still a crapshoot compared to actually LIVING in the real world, with real problems and adversities. seriously, these things are a waste of time. YOU have NO idea IF he is actually being honest. what a persons actions tell you consistently over MANY years is the honesty that will tell you everything you're looking for on paper. until the $hit hits the fan - and you see how a person reacts (or not) is the true test of what they will or will not do in THOSE types of situations.
Silly_Girl Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 you are fooling yourselves. when push comes to shove - anyone can answer with anything they think the other person WANTS or NEEDS to hear. it's only helpful IF BOTH parties answer honestly...without reservation...and THAT is still a crapshoot compared to actually LIVING in the real world, with real problems and adversities. seriously, these things are a waste of time. YOU have NO idea IF he is actually being honest. what a persons actions tell you consistently over MANY years is the honesty that will tell you everything you're looking for on paper. until the $hit hits the fan - and you see how a person reacts (or not) is the true test of what they will or will not do in THOSE types of situations. I agree you can't plan a lot of that stuff. It's often said here that one shouldn't kid themselves they know what they'd do in situation X. Until YOU'RE the one wearing the shoes.... But this is one aspect of their journey. And I don't think this is about prescribing rules or pre-agreeing actions, I think it's about widening horizons and improving communication techniques. I wouldn't have thought they're writing their Marriage Bible. And if they were, I'd find it kind of eerie!!!
BB07 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 you are fooling yourselves. when push comes to shove - anyone can answer with anything they think the other person WANTS or NEEDS to hear. it's only helpful IF BOTH parties answer honestly...without reservation...and THAT is still a crapshoot compared to actually LIVING in the real world, with real problems and adversities. seriously, these things are a waste of time. YOU have NO idea IF he is actually being honest. Geez.......and you have NO idea that he ISN'T being honest. Such negativity! what a persons actions tell you consistently over MANY years is the honesty that will tell you everything you're looking for on paper. And how do you suppose they are supposed to fast forward MANY years? until the $hit hits the fan - and you see how a person reacts (or not) is the true test of what they will or will not do in THOSE types of situations. No one ever knows these things and no one has a crystal ball to know what the future holds. There are no guarantees, but from what TinaniT is telling us, they are doing all the right things to try to prevent future problems from mushrooming into insurmountable problems in the future and I for one commend the actions they are taking.
2sunny Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 No one ever knows these things and no one has a crystal ball to know what the future holds. There are no guarantees, but from what TinaniT is telling us, they are doing all the right things to try to prevent future problems from mushrooming into insurmountable problems in the future and I for one commend the actions they are taking. i'm not being negative - i'm being totally realistic. that's all.
BB07 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 i'm not being negative - i'm being totally realistic. that's all. I guess your vision of realistic is my version of being negative.
2sunny Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 I guess your vision of realistic is my version of being negative. good for you. after 23 years being with the same man - and assuming it was an amazing M, my truth can be what i have experienced and my perspective. they can ANSWER anything - when the reality hits - they can DO the opposite without any thought to what they originally put on that piece of paper... been there- done that. what is written means NOTHING. what they DO means everything. it's a fact!
BB07 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 what is written means NOTHING. what they DO means everything. it's a fact! I won't argue about doing versus saying, I can look back at my own life and wish I had applied this principal more, but I took issue with what seemed like you being very negative about THEIR future. TinaniT and her soon to be hubby will have to write their own future history. Hopefully it will be a wonderful one and I wish them all the best.
2sunny Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 did your soon to be husband fill this form out when he got married the first time? did he make promises in his vows to his original wife? did he KEEP the vows he spoke? did you?
2sunny Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Did you ever make a promise you did not keep? Did you make that promise PLANNING on failing to keep it? I don't think that either of them likely married with the intent for this to be the final outcome. I think MOST people intend to keep the promises they make when they enter into a marriage contract. The fact that divorce rates are what they are only goes to show that failing to keep those promises is very common among human beings which are all inherently flawed. But the fact that they are willing to openly discuss these issues is healthy, and it bodes well for their future. The fact that this man is willing to do the hard work now, is an indication that he will continue to do so in the future. could be - anything is possible - and really those forms are completely worthless when life happens... you NEVER can tell how things will play out - so there really is no value to it. btw - i kept my vows, yes.
OWoman Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Tina, this sounds like a really productive exercise! My H and I didn't go through a formal counselling process like this, but we did discuss pretty much everything ad nauseam, because we both had such different lifestyles, so we knew there would be a good deal of compromise and change involved for all of us. How we live now is very different to how he lived, and how I lived, so I guess the compromise was successful! It's not all plain sailing - kids who've been raised in a dysfunctional household do sometimes behave in ways that require helping right - but we agree in principle and where he falls back into "the easy way" (picking up after kids, rather than calling their attention to it, say) he's quick to back me up if I raise the issue. I wouldn't pay too much heed to the naysayers. Those of us second-timers, particularly those of us who've had to fight for our Rs, really value them and put in the work required to make sure that they flourish. My H having had an A makes him appreciate the M we have far more, so he makes sure that he doesn't fall into any of the bad R practices that characterised his first M; and I am just so pleased finally to find a man worthy of my respect and love that I appreciate him and the R we have. Enjoy your pre-M counselling - learning about each other and strengthening your R can only help in the long run!
Author TinaniT Posted September 10, 2010 Author Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) did your soon to be husband fill this form out when he got married the first time? did he make promises in his vows to his original wife? did he KEEP the vows he spoke? did you? It's not a form. It's questions we are going over with the counselor. And I think someone had it right when they said it's communication, not a script. And while you can't plan for everything because someone might respond differently, it is helpful to address things where a discrepancy already occurs before they are issues. Part of what is discussed is expectations of ourselves and each other and we are pretty dead on there. That we went the way we did is part of the reason for counseling. That we did not do such things before our first (wrong) marriages encourages it more. We made promises without considering the why, and the what we want, etc. You are right, We both promised forever and could not deliver. We both should have known better before we walked down the aisle. However, when my exhusband was being abusive, I felt that the vows were already broken. Edited September 10, 2010 by TinaniT
Author TinaniT Posted September 10, 2010 Author Posted September 10, 2010 Tina, this sounds like a really productive exercise! My H and I didn't go through a formal counselling process like this, but we did discuss pretty much everything ad nauseam, because we both had such different lifestyles, so we knew there would be a good deal of compromise and change involved for all of us. How we live now is very different to how he lived, and how I lived, so I guess the compromise was successful! It's not all plain sailing - kids who've been raised in a dysfunctional household do sometimes behave in ways that require helping right - but we agree in principle and where he falls back into "the easy way" (picking up after kids, rather than calling their attention to it, say) he's quick to back me up if I raise the issue. I wouldn't pay too much heed to the naysayers. Those of us second-timers, particularly those of us who've had to fight for our Rs, really value them and put in the work required to make sure that they flourish. My H having had an A makes him appreciate the M we have far more, so he makes sure that he doesn't fall into any of the bad R practices that characterised his first M; and I am just so pleased finally to find a man worthy of my respect and love that I appreciate him and the R we have. Enjoy your pre-M counselling - learning about each other and strengthening your R can only help in the long run! Thanks!
Recommended Posts