Can we reconcile after an infidelity?

[Universe]

I've been in a great relationship with the most wonderful woman I have ever known for over 11 years. She is the love of my life, my light, my everything.

 

But 3 months ago I allowed a close friendship with a younger woman that I work with get inappropriately intimate. I did not want it to happen. I did not enjoy myself while it was happening. It was a horrible thing in most every way it could be. The only thing I can cling to is that I did not let it go as far as actual sex. The absolute worst thing was that I ended up giving her a hand-job. So if you consider that to be sex, then ok. But it wasn't sex to me. I let her kiss me and she worked herself up into an uncontrollable frenzy. She was too drunk to drive so I felt I could not kick her out. So to calm her down I stuck my hand in her pants and pushed the button. She had an orgasm within 10 seconds and it was all over.

 

I was completely traumatized afterward. Though I felt that because we did not have sex and because I did not actually want it that I could live with myself. It was the most terrible thing I've ever done. It certainly meant I had some serious work to do psychologically. How could I have done such a thing when I love my girlfriend so much and I'm not even attracted to the other woman? I have major codependency issues. I couldn't bring myself to disappoint the other woman who is absolutely crazy for me. I do care for her a lot and up to that point had considered her a dear friend. But the fact that I could let that happen meant that I must be lying to myself about something.

 

I felt I could tell my girlfriend about it and that she would be understanding. But then she was having some major depression issues and I couldn't drop that on her.

 

So I kept it a secret. Now it's three months later and I just had (am still having) a nervous breakdown brought on by the deception and the disgusting despicable acts I've committed. I simply could not look at my girlfriend for another second without telling her the truth.

 

At first she was very understanding and it seemed that everything would be ok. But that didn't last long. She's spent the past few nights at her mother's. She wants to destroy the other woman. She wants us to break up or at least take a break for a while.

 

I can't believe this has happened. There's more to it. It gets worse. But that's the main info.

 

Is there any chance we can patch this up? THere's nothing I want more in the world than to spend the rest of my life with her and have a family together. DOes anyone have advice? I know I've been a bad person. But perhaps I can redeem myself. Perhaps I can be forgiven. Can I?

[2sure]

She isnt going to be able to forgive you if thats the story your telling her.

The OW is younger than you, was so drunk she could not drive, was in an out of control Frenzy...so you HAD to get her off.

 

I mean, really, if the way you explained it here is the way you said it to her...all you did was say: It wasnt my fault. In fact....I'm the victim here.

 

You might start changing your perspective or at least your words:

 

You did it because you wanted to. As to why you wanted to...thats the work you have to do to get to the forgiveness.

 

To expect her to forgive you based on nothing but justifications and excuses....she is probably more furious with that than the infidelity itself.

[ShannonMI]

This is awful. I don't understand why you felt like you HAD to get this woman off to calm her down. And you LET her kiss you? I'm sure you were kissing her back or she wouldn't have been worked into a frenzy. I know people make mistakes and I know that you are very, very sorry for what you've done. I don't know if your girlfriend will ever be able to forgive you, though. The only way would be to go to couples therapy and try to work through this. There would be no guarantee. She will have major trust issues, but maybe seeking professinal help would fix what you have done to your relationship. Hopefully you both are willing to seek the help. I am sorry for your predicament because you do sound very remorseful and people do make stupid mistakes. I wish you luck.

[Universe]

I've taken full responsibility for my actions to her. I have admitted full guilt. I am certainly not the victim. Rather, I am the aggressor and both my GF and the OW are my victims. The OW is somewhat responsible too, however, and I can't take any more energy to consider her feelings. I have to focus on the pain I've caused my GF.

 

Obviously a part of me must have wanted it to happen. I'm responsible for creating the circumstances that which made the whole episode possible. I knew the danger and I took the risk. "was so drunk she could not drive, was in an out of control Frenzy...so you HAD to get her off. " I'm not saying that this was an excuse. I'm saying that this is what I was thinking to myself at the time. I was very confused and dealing with a very loaded situation. I was certainly and idiot for thinking these things.

 

I make no excuses. But I have to be honest about what I did and what was going through my head at the time in order to understand what really happened. Because I never wanted to be intimate with other woman. I never lusted after her. I never looked at her and thought, "I want to kiss her." But I did care for her more than I should. I did have a strong urge to satisfy her needs and cure her pain. It was my codependency and it lead me to be disastrously irrational.

[Universe]

we're going to see a counselor in 5 minutes.

 

It started with a hug and she wouldn't let go. I let her hug me and start petting me. Then I let her touch her face against mine. Then I let her kiss me. In my mind all I could think of was how to make her stop without hurting her. I didn't want to hurt her. I couldn't make myself kick her out. I felt sick to my stomach. After a while a voice in my head just said, "FINE! I'll freakin' kiss you back! I'll kiss you hard for a minute and that'll be it. We're done!" So I did. And that's when she just exploded. It was like pour gasoline on a flame.

 

Yes - I know how stupid I sound. If you had ran this scenario before hand or afterward I would have known what to do. I would never have been so stupid. But in the moment, I wasn't thinking clearly. I was an absolute fool and I hate myself for it.

[ShannonMI]

I've taken full responsibility for my actions to her. I have admitted full guilt. I am certainly not the victim. Rather, I am the aggressor and both my GF and the OW are my victims. The OW is somewhat responsible too, however, and I can't take any more energy to consider her feelings. I have to focus on the pain I've caused my GF.

 

Obviously a part of me must have wanted it to happen. I'm responsible for creating the circumstances that which made the whole episode possible. I knew the danger and I took the risk. "was so drunk she could not drive, was in an out of control Frenzy...so you HAD to get her off. " I'm not saying that this was an excuse. I'm saying that this is what I was thinking to myself at the time. I was very confused and dealing with a very loaded situation. I was certainly and idiot for thinking these things.

 

I make no excuses. But I have to be honest about what I did and what was going through my head at the time in order to understand what really happened. Because I never wanted to be intimate with other woman. I never lusted after her. I never looked at her and thought, "I want to kiss her." But I did care for her more than I should. I did have a strong urge to satisfy her needs and cure her pain. It was my codependency and it lead me to be disastrously irrational.

These codependancy issues you have, need to be addressed as well, in therapy. You and your girlfriend need to go if you want to save what you have. It was good that you were honest with her and told her. A lot of men would have kept it a secret. Give yourself a little credit for that.

 

I would be livid with you if I was your girlfriend, but if you were truly remorseful and went to seek help, then I would try to forgive you. Just realize there are no guarantees and your girlfriend could easily send you packing. Be prepared. Go get help and ask your girlfriend to go with you.

[ShannonMI]

we're going to see a counselor in 5 minutes.

 

It started with a hug and she wouldn't let go. I let her hug me and start petting me. Then I let her touch her face against mine. Then I let her kiss me. In my mind all I could think of was how to make her stop without hurting her. I didn't want to hurt her. I couldn't make myself kick her out. I felt sick to my stomach. After a while a voice in my head just said, "FINE! I'll freakin' kiss you back! I'll kiss you hard for a minute and that'll be it. We're done!" So I did. And that's when she just exploded. It was like pour gasoline on a flame.

 

Yes - I know how stupid I sound. If you had ran this scenario before hand or afterward I would have known what to do. I would never have been so stupid. But in the moment, I wasn't thinking clearly. I was an absolute fool and I hate myself for it.

I understand how you hate yourself right now. Give yourself a little credit though for being honest and seeking the help. I can't believe I'm being so nice to you with my advice because my ex cheated on me and didn't tell me. He broke up with me and I just recently found out he was cheating on me a week before he told me he wanted to break up. The break up was out of the blue and he made up other excuses instead of telling me he'd found someone else. I was thrown for a loop. I'm glad you were honest with your girlfriend. That was the right thing to do.

[ShannonMI]

I understand how you hate yourself right now. Give yourself a little credit though for being honest and seeking the help. I can't believe I'm being so nice to you with my advice because my ex cheated on me and didn't tell me. He broke up with me and I just recently found out he was cheating on me a week before he told me he wanted to break up. The break up was out of the blue and he made up other excuses instead of telling me he'd found someone else. I was thrown for a loop. I'm glad you were honest with your girlfriend. That was the right thing to do.

Also, how come this girl was so "close" to you? You said she's a coworker and a close friend. Were you having an emotional affair with her? Emotional affairs are just as bad, or sometimes worse then, sexual affairs. Address that in therapy as well, if that's an issue.

[2sunny]

we're going to see a counselor in 5 minutes.

 

It started with a hug and she wouldn't let go. I let her hug me and start petting me. Then I let her touch her face against mine. Then I let her kiss me. In my mind all I could think of was how to make her stop without hurting her. I didn't want to hurt her. I couldn't make myself kick her out. I felt sick to my stomach. After a while a voice in my head just said, "FINE! I'll freakin' kiss you back! I'll kiss you hard for a minute and that'll be it. We're done!" So I did. And that's when she just exploded. It was like pour gasoline on a flame.

 

Yes - I know how stupid I sound. If you had ran this scenario before hand or afterward I would have known what to do. I would never have been so stupid. But in the moment, I wasn't thinking clearly. I was an absolute fool and I hate myself for it.

But 3 months ago I allowed a close friendship with a younger woman that I work with get inappropriately intimate. I did not want it to happen. I did not enjoy myself while it was happening. It was a horrible thing in most every way it could be. The only thing I can cling to is that I did not let it go as far as actual sex. The absolute worst thing was that I ended up giving her a hand-job. So if you consider that to be sex, then ok. But it wasn't sex to me. I let her kiss me and she worked herself up into an uncontrollable frenzy. She was too drunk to drive so I felt I could not kick her out. So to calm her down I stuck my hand in her pants and pushed the button. She had an orgasm within 10 seconds and it was all over.

 

I was completely traumatized afterward. Though I felt that because we did not have sex and because I did not actually want it that I could live with myself.

 

all of this is such BS! YOU DID THIS... and you act like "poor baby" you had to... BS. you did it because YOU wanted to. your chosen words are all meant to take the responsibility off of you. YOU did it. you don't put your hand in someones pussy to calm them down. so stop lying! the LIES are why your GF is SO MAD!!!! it's still all lies.

 

So to calm her down I stuck my hand in her pants and pushed the button.

 

ya, right. last time i needed calming down i asked a man to stroke my privates...

 

she won't trust you - because YOU aren't even OWNING YOUR part in all this.

 

you should break up with her just for the shear fact that you aren't mature enough to make good decisions - and the ones you make, you don't own them.

 

you were NOT the victim - you were the instigator.

 

that gal did not need to:

 

• be drinking with you
  
• be alone with you
  
• let her hug you - i'm sure you hugged her back
  
• be in your car
  
• be close to your face
  
• be a close friend as a woman
  
• be kissing you (YOU knew what would happen next)
  
• be allowing her to touch you (and
  

don't try to deny that SHE didn't touch YOU) - anyone with a brain would know that she must have touched your goods too!

• be keeping it a secret for 3 months
  

 

you knew what you were doing and now you play all innocent... THAT is the worst of any of it.

 

tell the truth - you are still willing to minimize your truth.

Edited September 7, 2010 by 2sunny

[ShannonMI]

all of this is such BS! YOU DID THIS... and you act like "poor baby" you had to... BS. you did it because YOU wanted to. your chosen words are all meant to take the responsibility off of you. YOU did it. you don't put your hand in someones pussy to calm them down. so stop lying! the LIES are why your GF is SO MAD!!!! it's still all lies.

 

 

 

ya, right. last time i needed calming down i asked a man to stroke my privates...

 

she won't trust you - because YOU aren't even OWNING YOUR part in all this.

 

you should break up with her just for the shear fact that you aren't mature enough to make good decisions - and the ones you make, you don't own them.

 

you were NOT the victim - you were the instigator.

 

that gal did not need to:

 

• be drinking with you
  
• be alone with you
  let her hug you - i'm sure you hugged her back
  
• be in your car
  
• be close to your face
  
• be a close friend as a woman
  
• be kissing you (YOU knew what would happen next)
  
• be allowing her to touch you (and
  

don't try to deny that SHE didn't touch YOU) - anyone with a brain would know that she must have touched your goods too!

• be keeping it a secret for 3 months
  

you knew what you were doing and now you play all innocent... THAT is the worst of any of it.

 

tell the truth - you are still willing to minimize your truth.

Wow! See this is how I should be feeling toward you! What this person is saying is absolutely true. You must NOT play the victim in this. You did it to yourself and you need to right your wrongs. If your gf leaves you, you will have no one to blame but yourself, unfortunately. It's a HUGE lesson learned.

[2sunny]

looks like you've played this game before... why didn't you learn your lesson before?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t239781/

 

there's no innocence - you have choices every time you play this game.

[ShannonMI]

looks like you've played this game before... why didn't you learn your lesson before?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t239781/

 

there's no innocence - you have choices every time you play this game.

Oh ouch! Hahahaha yes bad news dude!

[Universe]

Well I appreciate all of your responses. And I understand why some of you feel the need to pounce on me for this.

 

Allow me to clarify some things.

 

I do not see myself as the victim. I take full responsibility for the entire situation. I was explaining what was going through my head at the time to help myself and others understand how I could have done something so terrible when it is not at all what I wanted to do. I recognize that it is a form of making excuses. But the reasons why this happened and how I could be capable of acting this way are important to me. How else will I gain a real understanding of who I am and how I could have done this?

 

So I'm not saying that giving her a hand job was the only solution or a good idea. Obviously there were other options. But at the time I did not feel that I had any. And it's my stupid irrational fault for not seeing it that way at the time. I take full responsibility for that. But don't pretend like giving an orgasm to somebody who on fire and ready to explode with sexual energy won't calm them down. If an orgasm doesn't calm you down, you're not doing it right. And it, in fact, did calm her down very much. So it did yield the immediate desired outcome which was for her to return to her senses. But it also yield catastrophic long term outcomes that obviously proved a lot more costly. Of course I know how wrong it was and I knew it at the time. But I was reacting to her instead of taking the initiative. I wish I would have thrown her out. That would have been the right thing to do. But I did the wrong thing. And if anyone was curious how someone could knowingly do the wrong thing, then I was trying explain how I did so. It doesn't make it any more ok. In the moment I allowed myself to think that because I was not enjoying it, that it was just a weird fluke thing that was happening, that it was somehow less horrible and I was less guilty. I am not. But that's what I was thinking in the heat of the moment. Before and afterwords I knew that to be stupid and wrong.

 

Referring to my previous post - this is not a second offense. This is the same instance. I started a new thread because I've just told my GF the truth. At the time of the previous post I was still deluding myself into thinking what I had done was not as bad as it seemed and that it was better for everyone if we just kept it a secret.

 

Some people seem to forget that these forums are supposed to be constructive. People make mistakes. People learn from them. I am not a bad person. I feel like one. I've done terrible things. But I'm suffering the consequences and I'm trying to learn from it and reconcile.

 

I hope that those of you so quick to jump on me and tell me "you should have known better" one day make a mistake and do something you knew was wrong. If you think you're perfect, then you're just as immature as I was when I did what I did.

[Livelovelearn]

Im sick of men like you, you want to have it all. You know you have a great woman and yet you allow yourself to do what you want to do. Clearly you don't know what you want, sounds like you just want to be able to play with these young women and hope that your woman will forgive you since you've been with her for so long. Do her a favour and let her find a real good man, a man who knows what he has and doesnt make the same mistakes twice. She is not your "everything", admit it. Seems like your in denial and you dont want to admit maybe she just isnt the one for you.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Livelovelearn

[Universe]

Again - I'll repeat yet again that I am not making excuses or trying to proclaim that I am innocent or a victim in any way. I haven't said that I deserve to be forgiven. And I'm not looking for someone to say that I'm not a bad person or that I deserve a second chance. I'm asking if anyone can give me some useful advice and if a second chance is possible. Has anyone been through something like this before? How did it turn out? Has anyone ever really truly reconciled after something like this?

 

Im sick of men like you, you want to have it all. You know you have a great woman and yet you allow yourself to do what you want to do. Clearly you don't know what you want, sounds like you just want to be able to play with these young women and hope that your woman will forgive you since you've been with her for so long. Do her a favour and let her find a real good man, a man who knows what he has and doesnt make the same mistakes twice. She is not your "everything", admit it. Seems like your in denial and you dont want to admit maybe she just isnt the one for you.

 

again - I can appreciate those of you who have anger about men who cheat. It's an absolutely horrible painful thing. But I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will actually address my situation as I have explained it. I find it difficult to believe that the person who posted the above has actually read my posts or the other posts before it.

 

Nowhere did I say that she should forgive me because we were together for so long. The fact that we've been together so long just makes my crime that much worse. Though now that you mention it, I think that the fact the I haven't strayed an inch in 11 years should be at least some testament to my character. I'm not saying I deserve a cookie for that. But I think there's a difference between what I did and most other stories I've heard about men who cheat.

sounds like you just want to be able to play with these young women

These young women? Plural? Is there a difference between an episode like this happening with one woman and with multiple woman?

 

Every time I try to talk to someone about this they lump me in with men who are serial cheaters and have extramarital affairs without remorse. I'm struggling to find some common ground here. It doesn't seem to matter how I felt when I did what I did. I doesn't seem to matter what I did or how I did it. All anyone cares about is that I did something that crossed the line. Once people hear that a line was crossed, they don't seem to care how far it went. The fact that I crossed the line at all seems to be the same as if I blew the line to smithereens.

 

Yes I was in denial about that fact that I actually had real feelings for the other woman. Yes I am guilty guilty guilty. Yes there was at least some part of me that wanted it to happen. Yes I was weak and stupid and immature. But can someone acknowledge that there is a difference between what I did and a man who seeks out, instigates, and enjoys an infidelity like this? Again - I'm not looking for anyone to say that what I did was excusable in any way. It was still a horrible horrible thing. Nothing will change the fact that I feel absolutely terrible about the whole thing. But does the fact that I had no desire to have sex with the other woman - the fact that I had cognitive dissonance about kissing her and found the whole act disgusting - the fact that I never stopped thinking about my girlfriend the entire time - - - does any of that matter at all?

 

I can see how it doesn't make it hurt my girlfriend any less. Again - it's no excuse. But is there a difference or isn't there?

 

I'm not saying I deserve to be forgiven. I'm asking if I could be.

[ShannonMI]

Again - I'll repeat yet again that I am not making excuses or trying to proclaim that I am innocent or a victim in any way. I haven't said that I deserve to be forgiven. And I'm not looking for someone to say that I'm not a bad person or that I deserve a second chance. I'm asking if anyone can give me some useful advice and if a second chance is possible. Has anyone been through something like this before? How did it turn out? Has anyone ever really truly reconciled after something like this?

 

 

 

again - I can appreciate those of you who have anger about men who cheat. It's an absolutely horrible painful thing. But I'm posting here in the hopes that someone will actually address my situation as I have explained it. I find it difficult to believe that the person who posted the above has actually read my posts or the other posts before it.

 

Nowhere did I say that she should forgive me because we were together for so long. The fact that we've been together so long just makes my crime that much worse. Though now that you mention it, I think that the fact the I haven't strayed an inch in 11 years should be at least some testament to my character. I'm not saying I deserve a cookie for that. But I think there's a difference between what I did and most other stories I've heard about men who cheat. These young women? Plural? Is there a difference between an episode like this happening with one woman and with multiple woman?

 

Every time I try to talk to someone about this they lump me in with men who are serial cheaters and have extramarital affairs without remorse. I'm struggling to find some common ground here. It doesn't seem to matter how I felt when I did what I did. I doesn't seem to matter what I did or how I did it. All anyone cares about is that I did something that crossed the line. Once people hear that a line was crossed, they don't seem to care how far it went. The fact that I crossed the line at all seems to be the same as if I blew the line to smithereens.

 

Yes I was in denial about that fact that I actually had real feelings for the other woman. Yes I am guilty guilty guilty. Yes there was at least some part of me that wanted it to happen. Yes I was weak and stupid and immature. But can someone acknowledge that there is a difference between what I did and a man who seeks out, instigates, and enjoys an infidelity like this? Again - I'm not looking for anyone to say that what I did was excusable in any way. It was still a horrible horrible thing. Nothing will change the fact that I feel absolutely terrible about the whole thing. But does the fact that I had no desire to have sex with the other woman - the fact that I had cognitive dissonance about kissing her and found the whole act disgusting - the fact that I never stopped thinking about my girlfriend the entire time - - - does any of that matter at all?

 

I can see how it doesn't make it hurt my girlfriend any less. Again - it's no excuse. But is there a difference or isn't there?

 

I'm not saying I deserve to be forgiven. I'm asking if I could be.

 

It DOES matter that you are remorseful and you take full responsibility for your mistake. At least you aren't one of those men who just cheat and don't feel sorry for what they've done. I feel from your posts that you are being genuine about this whole thing. You are truly sorry. It's really too bad you did what you did and I honestly feel like if you could go back and change it, you would. I think I may be the only one who feels that way, though. I guess you can't really blame these women who posted their harsh criticism . However harsh it may be, you deserve it I'm afraid. I'm trying to just give you some constructive advice because I realize people DO MAKE MISTAKES! You do have a lot of issues that need to be addressed and I think you realize that.

 

How did your therapy session go? Did your girlfriend go with you? You have a lot of work ahead of you if you plan on regaining her trust. I'm not sure it will even work though at this point.

[Universe]

She went with me to the session. It went about as well as it could of I guess. I think we both felt a lot better about everything afterwords and a lot more clarity. She explained how people pleasing is one of the most difficult addictions to recover from and that it is something I will have to battle for the rest of my life. They both commended me on the strength I exhibited in coming clean. I also had to endure the revelations of the depths of the pain I've caused her and just how destructive my behavior has been to her.

 

We went out for drinks afterword and she came home with me. We seemed to have made a lot progress and seemed to be making plans for the future.

 

But I guess it couldn't have gone all that well because last night she sent me an email breaking up with me. I called in sick today and didn't pick up the phone or eat all day. I feel like I just accidentally killed myself. I had it all and I lost it because I was a stupid jerk.

 

I'll never stop fighting for her though. She is the love of my life. I know she still loves me. But she's hurt and betrayed. I'm going to do everything in my power to prove that she can trust me - that I will love her better than anyone can - and that I am the best partner for her to build a future with.

 

Thank you, ShannonMI. It helps me a lot to know there is someone out there who sees that I'm not so despicable. Yes - I deserve to suffer for this and believe me I am suffering more than anyone knows. But I feel I also deserve a chance to redeem myself. I know that it's not up to me whether or not I will have that chance. I can only hope for now and do the best I can with whatever opportunities that come.

 

So your last comment really means a lot. Thank you.

[Silvaria]

Universe (and by the way, I am an astronomy fanatic and absolutely love your avatar, looks like a Hubble deep field)...it would be easy for me to sit here and say, "If you TRULY loved her, and if she were REALLY the 'love of your life', you wouldn't have done what you did!"...but, life just isn't that black and white. We've all made horrible mistakes that we would give almost anything to take back.

 

You obviously are remorseful...and maybe I missed this in your posts, I am rather guilty of being a chronic speed reader, but...even in light of many years of absolutely fidelity, how exactly do you go about convincing her that you will never do this sort of thing again? How do you convince her that the phrase, "once a cheater, always a cheater", doesn't apply to you?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on what you did, I'm just wondering if you have a game plan for convincing the woman you love that this was a one-time mistake, and that you have learned your lesson, so to speak.

[jnj express]

Hey Universe----YOU HAD SEX---just cuz you didn't finish, does not mean you didn't do something sexual---which you DID

 

No matter what---your GF did think you had sex---everyone may have a different definition of what is sex----but you basically justified to your self that what you were doing wasn't sexual----obviously your GF, disagreed with you

 

Best thing you can do if you are in a relationship, is to stay away from other women

 

Just out of curiosity how would you, satisfying a woman to her climaxing, be considered, not sexual, and how in your mind was that, calming her down, and how would you, having your hands all over her body, not be sexual, and how would you kissing and arousing this woman be, not sexual???????

[Universe]

@ Silvaria

first - thanks for the nice comments about my avatar. I've always really liked it too. I'm pretty sure a Hubble deep field is exactly what it is.

 

how exactly do you go about convincing her that you will never do this sort of thing again? How do you convince her that the phrase, "once a cheater, always a cheater", doesn't apply to you?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on what you did, I'm just wondering if you have a game plan for convincing the woman you love that this was a one-time mistake, and that you have learned your lesson, so to speak.

 

Yeah - well this is the big question. I mean - there's no way to know if she'll ever be convinced that it was just a one time thing. That's a question that's going to hang in the air for her for long time I think. And there's a good chance that she'll get tired of asking it and decide to just move on. Given the severity of the deception, the damage could easily be irreparable.

 

My "game plan" at this point is to do the following...

 

1) re-read Codependency No More and whatever other literature I can find on deception, codependency, infidelity, and healthy relationships.

 

2) continue talking to my therapist every week (my GF will also be seeing the same therapist on an independent basis. Though I hope we can do some more joint sessions down the road).

 

3) not think of this as a "game plan" or as me trying to "convince" anyone of anything, but rather take every step necessary to bring about real change in my character. I've always been a good friend and lover. I've always been a genuinely good person to my friends and the people around me. That's why my actions are such a shock even to myself. I've never done anything remotely like this before. But this has unearthed some very deep-seated codependency issues, fear and cowardice issues, honesty issues, and ego issues - none of which I had any idea were so severe.

 

4) I plan to have faith. I'm not a religious person though I have always been very spiritual. I've been coming to grips lately about what it really means to have faith and how it is the only way to combat fear. I behaved like a coward because I was afraid. I lied because I was afraid. I was nervous and frail because I was afraid. The fear ate away at my strength and I did not have the courage to be honest.

 

5) I plan to be strong in the face of fear.

 

6) I plan to be honest regardless of consequence.

 

7) I plan to be humble regardless of how much success I attain or admiration I receive.

 

8) I plan to be rational and not act on emotions. If I am emotional I will wait it out. Decisions and actions can and should wait for a clear and level head.

 

9) I plan to respect and cooperate with my GF in whatever she decides for herself regardless of how much it may hurt or remove hope from my desired end.

 

10) I plan to practice and internalize these characteristics daily in all my relationships and interactions so that even if things don't work out between me and my GF, then at least I will recover my sanity and eradicate any chance of something like this happening again.

 

 

That's my game plan.

[Universe]

@ jnj express

 

but you basically justified to your self that what you were doing wasn't sexual

I think we've covered this. But yes - this is exactly what I did. In the moment I told myself that as long as I didn't have sex (intercourse or oral sex) that there would be a pretty good chance that my GF would understand and forgive me. I don't think I ever thought or said that what me and the other woman did wasn't sexual. An orgasm is sexual. Though it's also mechanical. I didn't get off on giving her a hand-job. I wasn't worked up in a sexual way. I was in a panic. I wasn't thinking rationally.

 

As I think I've said before, what I was thinking or feeling at the time - whatever my reasoning was, the damage is still the same. It doesn't matter much to the victim. If you kill someone, it doesn't matter much to the victim whether you did it on purpose or on accident, with malice or good intention. He's dead.

 

My GF is hurt by my actions. It doesn't matter much how or why. It matters to me because I'm the one who has to get under the hood and fix whatever is wrong with me. I need to look closely at exactly how it happened so I can get to work on the aspects of my personality that allowed it to happen.

 

I am not - repeat - NOT making excuses. I am explaining what happened. I'm not saying I didn't have a choice. I'm saying I was to cowardly and emotional to make the correct choice. For some reason the correct choices did not seem so available to me at the time. They were. But I was confused and afraid to see them clearly.

 

Best thing you can do if you are in a relationship, is to stay away from other women

I like women. I think this whole notion that women and men can't be friends is for amateurs. And yes - I am apparently a total amateur. But I don't want to be. All my favorite people are women. All the smartest people I know are women. I find most men to be fairly boring. Women are usually a lot more fun.

 

The thing to do if you are in a relationship is to have a firm understanding of barriers and to develop a keen eye for sparks. Identify sparks and manage them before they have a chance to grow. Whatever you do, do not add fuel. If you feel you must add fuel, then the only thing to do is to end or redefine your current relationship so that adding fuel to a flame is permissible.

 

Just out of curiosity how would you, satisfying a woman to her climaxing, be considered, not sexual, and how in your mind was that, calming her down, and how would you, having your hands all over her body, not be sexual, and how would you kissing and arousing this woman be, not sexual???????

Again - I'm not saying that it wasn't sexual for her. And on the surface, objectively speaking, my actions were sexual in nature. But under the surface - which is to say, in my brain - it was mostly or even entirely mechanical. When I got a checkup from the doctor a couple years ago, he stuck his finger up my butt. I don't think it was sexual. It was mechanical. He was touching me in a sexual place to attain a result. Now, if I had had an orgasm while his finger was in my butt, it would have been sexual for me, but still not for him. He would still be trying to attain a result having nothing to do with his sexuality.

 

When I stuck my hands in her pants, it did nothing for me sexually. I would rather have not done it even at the time. I didn't want to touch her vagina. But I felt that I had led her on and that it was my stupid fault for her being so worked up. She was so worked up to the point where I actually felt as though it would be cruel not to bring her to the finish. It brought me no pleasure to touch her sexual organ just as it brought the doctor no pleasure (I hope) to touch my butt. It was a means to an ends.

 

how in your mind was that, calming her down

I don't know why people keep asking this question. Perhaps those of you who ask this question have never had an orgasm. Now I realize that for women orgasms can be an ongoing series of climaxes. But even then they usually go in waves. So after there is a climax there is a calm before the next wave revs up. I know - maybe not always. But usually. And in this particular case, bringing her to orgasm had the desired effect of calming her down.

 

If you still take issue with this, then I suggest you go give yourself an orgasm before you post here again.

[Sambo]

So to calm her down I stuck my hand in her pants and pushed the button. She had an orgasm within 10 seconds and it was all over.

Can I?

 

hahahahaha very funny !

 

Press <here> for Orgasm lol

 

 

You made 1 major mistake by cheating then you went and made a 2nd mistake by telling your ex about it

 

You really need to ask yourself why your doing all these self destructive behaviors and figure that out first because otherwise your just going to repeat the pattern in a different way.

 

Give your gf space right now and work on yourself for awhile I'm sure she will eventually realize it was no big deal but I would be more worried about myself at this point.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Sambo

[ShannonMI]

Universe,

 

Your game plan sounds good. I hope it works out for you. You have a lot of work ahead of you. I hope your gf can forgive you for this because I truly feel you are sorry about what you did. Keep us posted.

[Silvaria]

Universe, believe it or not, I think I finally actually understand what happened. I'm not condoning it, especially since I'm very demanding when it comes to faithfulness, but I see what happened a little more clearly now.

 

One of the most difficult words to use in the English language for a LOT of people is the word, "no". Basically, you got into an inappropriate situation with this girl, and you were, for whatever reason, too afraid to just say "no". I can't judge you for that, because I've also hurt people by being unable to use that simple, two-letter word.

 

You honestly don't sound like a "serial cheater" to me...you sound like someone who didn't and/or couldn't say "no" when they should have, and it sounds very much like you are trying to understand the reasons you weren't able to do it. I think you're doing all you can, and I honestly wish you the best of luck in getting to the root of your emotional issues that brought about this situation. Please keep us posted.

[Hop_prophet]

I give you credit for coming clean. That takes a lot of courage and does show true remorse, however I still see a lot of justifcation and minimizing going on. I'm not convinced that you are all that different from those that cheat on a regular basis and your gf probably isn't either. People who end up in that category probably start off just like you did and it is a fundamental lack of character that drives them to do it. I'm not saying people can't learn and change but they have to pay some pretty hefty consequences for it to happen.

 

You are not an idiot and you know full well what is appropriate and what is not. Somewhere along the line you convinced yourself what you were doing was ok. I'm sure you could see the warning signs way ahead of time but you lacked the character to enforce proper boundries. It is pretty simple really. If you can tell a woman is attracted to you then you damn sure don't "end up" with her drunk as hell in your car without your gf present at night.

 

It is up to your gf whether you deserve forgiveness or not. I know I could never forgive my gf for giving some dude a handjob in the back of her car while I wasn't around. It would be over immediately and I would probably never talk to her again. IMO it takes something like that (or at least a long seperation) to really bring about the desired change in behavior but then its too late. I really hope you learn from this and take it into future relationships.