Is bad sex enough of a reason to end a marriage?

[giotto]

Is amazing sex reason alone to get married?

 

no, but it helps...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

not difficult to understand... she's probably never been that satisfied with her sex life, but other qualities made her stick to to her man. Obviously, as she has said, her sex life wasn't her number one priority at the beginning. But now, after years of unsatisfactory sex, her attitude towards sex has changed. It's more important for her now. It happens and she is trying to establish whether a good sex life is now so important that she has to leave her man to pursue it. I'm not a woman, but women do marry for many different reasons and very often sex is not the first item of the list... I don't see anything strange about this situation...

 

Is he really that clumsy and bad???? This is why it is so difficult for me as a male to understand.... A willing partner, working at it for 10 friggin years and he knows about it, and it is only a female who can say this.... No male would ever say this about a willing, attractive partner after 120 years. Now a male may just be a horndog who wants "strange", which is another reason for affairs and cheating. But this is a solely woman's issue.... Dan Savage (google him if you want to read and laugh about sex) has a simple acronym GGG (Good, giving, generous) when it comes to sex..... The spouse is fulfilling his end, and only the female can dictate whether it is Good because it is her prerogative.....

 

Again back to whether the OP is pining for some mindblowing sex she had prior to her H, which then she knew with her H was not forthcoming if she married him, or just imagining something she read in an erotic book???

[tnttim]

I have found out that good sex has very little to do with the act and way more to do with the build up before sex. I don't mean the second before, I mean the week, or days before. Especially for women because they love the build up of sexual tension, that's what causes an explosion, a build up of pressure.

 

Do you guys fight, because fighting builds tension...

Does he ever cut you off and vice versa......

Does he drop hints that having sex with him is a conquest.....

What if he actually hit back on those women.........

What if he's really having an affair and you do not turn him on anymore......

 

All of this builds tension in you by creating doubt, if you want I can coach him on how to do it, just PM me.

[giotto]

I have found out that good sex has very little to do with the act and way more to do with the build up before sex. I don't mean the second before, I mean the week, or days before. Especially for women because they love the build up of sexual tension, that's what causes an explosion, a build up of pressure.

 

Do you guys fight, because fighting builds tension...

Does he ever cut you off and vice versa......

Does he drop hints that having sex with him is a conquest.....

What if he actually hit back on those women.........

What if he's really having an affair and you do not turn him on anymore......

 

All of this builds tension in you by creating doubt, if you want I can coach him on how to do it, just PM me.

 

tnttim, nice to see you again... the OP is fed up because he is technically crap in bed. Not for any other reason...

[giotto]

Is he really that clumsy and bad???? This is why it is so difficult for me as a male to understand.... A willing partner, working at it for 10 friggin years and he knows about it, and it is only a female who can say this.... No male would ever say this about a willing, attractive partner after 120 years. Now a male may just be a horndog who wants "strange", which is another reason for affairs and cheating. But this is a solely woman's issue.... Dan Savage (google him if you want to read and laugh about sex) has a simple acronym GGG (Good, giving, generous) when it comes to sex..... The spouse is fulfilling his end, and only the female can dictate whether it is Good because it is her prerogative.....

 

Again back to whether the OP is pining for some mindblowing sex she had prior to her H, which then she knew with her H was not forthcoming if she married him, or just imagining something she read in an erotic book???

 

well, he must be really bad... I don't know about you, TDP, but good sex is still quite important to me and when we go through a spell of bad sex (well, when we have it... ), it's quite disheartening. If the bad spell were to continue, I would consider looking somewhere else. Good sex not often enough is to me still acceptable, but frequent bad sex must be terrible...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

well, he must be really bad... I don't know about you, TDP, but good sex is still quite important to me and when we go through a spell of bad sex (well, when we have it... ), it's quite disheartening. If the bad spell were to continue, I would consider looking somewhere else. Good sex not often enough is to me still acceptable, but frequent bad sex must be terrible...

 

Sex is important to me.... When it is good, frankly it is because I have held up my end of the bargain.... I am really feeling screwed up lately reading posts of late..... A post like this makes me wonder if my wife feels like the OP.... The Good Orgasm thread and Mem's have me pretty depressed and wondering more and more.... Oh yea and then there were the husbands allowing their spouses to start having open affairs/polyamorous relationships. Good thing Lizzie60 hasn't been chirping in to tell us our spouses just don't care to have sex with us anymore and we do nothing for them....

[giotto]

A post like this makes me wonder if my wife feels like the OP....

 

I think she would have told you by now... Listen, sex with my wife is ok, not mind-blowing, but acceptable. I would like a much more varied sex, but she's always been quite selfish from that point of you. Basically, she does what she wants and we do what she wants. I don't have to work very much, because she almost always orgasms (as I said before), so it's still quite good, because I like seeing her satisfied, but it's not like it used to be... not even close... to be frank, if I had bad sex as well (again, when we have it), I would have been out of that door ages ago. At the end of the day, if you are satisfied with your sex life (the quality, not the frequency ), just enjoy it and don't pay any attention to other people's claims...

[Distant78]

Yea, something fishy is going on here. OP just tell us the truth. There is another man that is in your sight.

[efg6tm3]

not sure what all the fuss is about.

i heard this

sex is like pizza....even though it sucks it is still pretty good

[tnttim]

Like I said the build up is where the magic happens. It;s like comparing little league to the world series. Yea they're both baseball games, but the build up of tension and excitment is what makes it the world series.

 

You need to learn some seduction building techniques, then cash in after you have left him high and dry a few times. This will bring up the intensity and hopefully spark a fire that rages on.

 

What works for me, and this is me so your H may be different. I like when she's direct, but still subtle about what's shes implying. If I think I', getting some, and then don't then my desire goes up. She will tease me some more and then after a while it's on.

[You Go Girl]

I'm going to disagree that her marriage is rosy outside of the bedroom. A woman's view of her H can be summed up by how she responds to him in bed, imho it is starkly revealed without the masks of other influences.

That, and, women have little chirping voices in their head about dissatisfaction. It starts as a tiny little chirp, and if they listen to it, before long they decide they are dissatisfied in a big way and something has to change.

It seems she has focused on their sex life.

I see in a woman's view of her H in bed summing up her: respect for her H, and love for her H. IF she loves and respects her H, then the sex is going to be hot because SHE is going to make it so. She will be hot for him, and she will yell out commands if that's what it takes.

Or...something very strange is going on, well not so strange considering men and their porn demands...but she's getting information somewhere that her sex life should be better than it is, and it's not from some long distant memory from 10+ years ago. Maybe she's the one watching too much porn, or maybe she's reading too many erotic romance books. Where is this sudden dissatisfaction coming from? Increased libido? I think not. Increased libido just leads to wanting more, not a dissatisfaction with the quality. That little chirping voice came from somewhere outside of their marriage. The source should be investigated and revealed, and I am NOT implying that she has had an affair.

You don't just wake up one day and announce that the quality of the sex of a ten year marriage is bad and it's a deal breaker.

THere's a missing piece to this puzzle, and I am not implying that the OP is hiding and lying something from us. She may simply not know herself what that missing puzzle piece is.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'm going to disagree that her marriage is rosy outside of the bedroom. A woman's view of her H can be summed up by how she responds to him in bed, imho it is starkly revealed without the masks of other influences.

That, and, women have little chirping voices in their head about dissatisfaction. It starts as a tiny little chirp, and if they listen to it, before long they decide they are dissatisfied in a big way and something has to change.

It seems she has focused on their sex life.

I see in a woman's view of her H in bed summing up her: respect for her H, and love for her H. IF she loves and respects her H, then the sex is going to be hot because SHE is going to make it so. She will be hot for him, and she will yell out commands if that's what it takes.

Or...something very strange is going on, well not so strange considering men and their porn demands...but she's getting information somewhere that her sex life should be better than it is, and it's not from some long distant memory from 10+ years ago. Maybe she's the one watching too much porn, or maybe she's reading too many erotic romance books. Where is this sudden dissatisfaction coming from? Increased libido? I think not. Increased libido just leads to wanting more, not a dissatisfaction with the quality. That little chirping voice came from somewhere outside of their marriage. The source should be investigated and revealed, and I am NOT implying that she has had an affair.

You don't just wake up one day and announce that the quality of the sex of a ten year marriage is bad and it's a deal breaker.

THere's a missing piece to this puzzle, and I am not implying that the OP is hiding and lying something from us. She may simply not know herself what that missing puzzle piece is.

 

Thanks for summarizing it so well.... Just talked to my spouse about this thread, without going into any details at all. The one thing that has stood out to me and has not been explained or discussed more, is the fear of counselors I have now developed :mad: reading that the OP went for IC to work through stresses and issues not necessarily tied to her marriage, but when the marriage came up, so did these "issues" in the bedroom. The counselor then suggested "swinging" and an "open marriage" as an option, which has been discussed.... I am gobsmacked reading this. My spouse is curious whether the counselor is a male and female.

 

I am adamant that if my wife and I saw counselors separately, it would be my spouse's counselor, not mine suggesting swinging/open marriage as a viable option.:laugh:

[tropicalfox]

I'm going to disagree that her marriage is rosy outside of the bedroom. A woman's view of her H can be summed up by how she responds to him in bed, imho it is starkly revealed without the masks of other influences.

That, and, women have little chirping voices in their head about dissatisfaction. It starts as a tiny little chirp, and if they listen to it, before long they decide they are dissatisfied in a big way and something has to change.

It seems she has focused on their sex life.

I see in a woman's view of her H in bed summing up her: respect for her H, and love for her H. IF she loves and respects her H, then the sex is going to be hot because SHE is going to make it so. She will be hot for him, and she will yell out commands if that's what it takes.

Or...something very strange is going on, well not so strange considering men and their porn demands...but she's getting information somewhere that her sex life should be better than it is, and it's not from some long distant memory from 10+ years ago. Maybe she's the one watching too much porn, or maybe she's reading too many erotic romance books. Where is this sudden dissatisfaction coming from? Increased libido? I think not. Increased libido just leads to wanting more, not a dissatisfaction with the quality. That little chirping voice came from somewhere outside of their marriage. The source should be investigated and revealed, and I am NOT implying that she has had an affair.

You don't just wake up one day and announce that the quality of the sex of a ten year marriage is bad and it's a deal breaker.

THere's a missing piece to this puzzle, and I am not implying that the OP is hiding and lying something from us. She may simply not know herself what that missing puzzle piece is.

 

Great summary.

 

What also stands out is the fact that she says her husband "is not opposed to divorce" as if it's just a minor consequence. I would love to hear his point of view on this.

 

There is a piece missing from your thread OP. That's why people are questioning you so much. In addition, your counselor's advice about swinging is odd to say the least. This is not the sort of advice that is going to improve your marriage the least bit.

[Kem]

I sympathize with you for I am in a similar situation. I have a wonderful husband and I know that I can't live without him. This is my first time EVER participating in a forum and it is because of your post. Anyways, we're very open and intimate. He is my best friend and is my world. The sex could be better but I would NOT divorce based on this alone. A good man is hard to find. If your relationship is as good as mine, then we are the envy of many people. Sometimes I wonder if it's my own sexual appetite and experiences that's causing this "issue". OP made an interesting observation: he doesn't have rhythm. This is giving me an idea. Maybe I should convince my husband to take some dance lessons where he'll have to be more in tune with the music and how our bodies move. Every step would be in sync and our movements fluid.

[LittleTiger]

I sympathize with you for I am in a similar situation. I have a wonderful husband and I know that I can't live without him. This is my first time EVER participating in a forum and it is because of your post. Anyways, we're very open and intimate. He is my best friend and is my world. The sex could be better but I would NOT divorce based on this alone. A good man is hard to find. If your relationship is as good as mine, then we are the envy of many people. Sometimes I wonder if it's my own sexual appetite and experiences that's causing this "issue". OP made an interesting observation: he doesn't have rhythm. This is giving me an idea. Maybe I should convince my husband to take some dance lessons where he'll have to be more in tune with the music and how our bodies move. Every step would be in sync and our movements fluid.

 

Nice idea, but unfortunately some people cannot be taught to dance - rhythm is something you either have or you don't.

[You Go Girl]

Thanks for summarizing it so well.... Just talked to my spouse about this thread, without going into any details at all. The one thing that has stood out to me and has not been explained or discussed more, is the fear of counselors I have now developed :mad: reading that the OP went for IC to work through stresses and issues not necessarily tied to her marriage, but when the marriage came up, so did these "issues" in the bedroom. The counselor then suggested "swinging" and an "open marriage" as an option, which has been discussed.... I am gobsmacked reading this. My spouse is curious whether the counselor is a male and female.

 

I am adamant that if my wife and I saw counselors separately, it would be my spouse's counselor, not mine suggesting swinging/open marriage as a viable option.:laugh:

 

Great summary.

 

What also stands out is the fact that she says her husband "is not opposed to divorce" as if it's just a minor consequence. I would love to hear his point of view on this.

 

There is a piece missing from your thread OP. That's why people are questioning you so much. In addition, your counselor's advice about swinging is odd to say the least. This is not the sort of advice that is going to improve your marriage the least bit.

 

Aha! The counselor suggested swinging! What other ideas has she put into this woman's head? If she would suggest swinging, she would say just about anything. This is wrong on so many levels.

1--A counselor has no business suggesting something that could destroy a marriage. She should lose her license to practice.

2--Meddling. On an ethical basis, she is playing with this marriage like it is a toy. Let's suggest swinging, hehe, and see what happens. Ah, the power I have to mess with lives!

 

Just how does a shrink get to the point of suggesting swinging in a committed monogamous marriage?!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imaginary counseling session:

Shrink: How's your sex life in this marriage?

Wife: It's ok. Well, not perfect.

Shrink: How so not perfect?

Wife: Well, maybe he's a little clumsy. For example, when he kisses there's too much slobbering. Our marriage doesn't have passion like romance novels or monkey sex like porn.

Shrink: Have you ever had a skilled lover?

Wife: Probably not. There was this guy a long time ago that was pretty good though....

Shrink: How about the two of you swing with other married couples, so that another woman can work on improving his skill, and in the meantime you would gain some skillful lover sex?

 

I mean, really!

 

And yes, that her H supposedly is not adverse to the idea of divorce, ummm...a little like not being adverse to having cheerios for breakfast instead of corn flakes? This is not some small inconsequential decision here!

[xxoo]

To be fair to the counselor, it doesn't sound like she is pushing the swinging angle. The op said:

 

In discussing some of my relationship issues with my therapist, she was the one who brought up options like an open marriage, swinging, etc., as potential things to think about.

 

and really, if the OP was seeking IC (not marriage counseling), and expressed satisfaction with her marriage but dissatisfaction with monogamy, it seems pretty natural to me that the counselor would bring up options of non-monogamy to explore the patient's views.

 

Bringing up the obvious options, which the op could summarily dismiss, is in no way putting ideas into her head. The op is a grown woman.

[Green]

I think its the job of the person themselves to make sure sex is good. Like if my gf asks me for something I'll do it, but if she gets annoyed at asking or working on it thats not my fault. As the man asking my gf to lick my balls durring a bj or grab my ass while I pound her comes natural and I have no problem doing it. Plus having an orgasm and enjoying sex is easy for me. Really the worst thing a woman could do for me is NOT WANT SEX.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

To be fair to the counselor, it doesn't sound like she is pushing the swinging angle. The op said:

 

 

 

and really, if the OP was seeking IC (not marriage counseling), and expressed satisfaction with her marriage but dissatisfaction with monogamy, it seems pretty natural to me that the counselor would bring up options of non-monogamy to explore the patient's views.

 

Bringing up the obvious options, which the op could summarily dismiss, is in no way putting ideas into her head. The op is a grown woman.

 

First, and I am not going back through the posts, but she sought IC for issues beyond her marriage, then marriage discussions ensued.... No where did the OP express dissatisfaction with monogamy, nor did the OP (even after I questioned it)....

[xxoo]

First, and I am not going back through the posts, but she sought IC for issues beyond her marriage, then marriage discussions ensued.... No where did the OP express dissatisfaction with monogamy, nor did the OP (even after I questioned it)....

 

I don't think it matters why she initially sought out counseling. The marriage came up, so it makes sense that it would be explored.

 

But I'll replace "dissatisfaction with monogamy" with "dissatisfaction with sex alone in her monogamous relationship". I don't think it is in any way irresponsible for the counselor to bring up the options of non-monogamy for the patient to consider--and either explore further or reject.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

with these unhappy sex lives (i.e. not sexless, but not enough) going to IC about issues outside marriage, talking marriage and then eventually talking about sex (and remember here it is not a sexless situation) being told that maybe swinging or an open marriage is the answer!!!! I am sure the spouse wife would be up in arms if she heard this......

 

Sorry swinging/open = affair to me as long as there is "no emotional attachment"....

[xxoo]

with these unhappy sex lives (i.e. not sexless, but not enough) going to IC about issues outside marriage, talking marriage and then eventually talking about sex (and remember here it is not a sexless situation) being told that maybe swinging or an open marriage is the answer!!!! I am sure the spouse wife would be up in arms if she heard this......

 

Sorry swinging/open = affair to me as long as there is "no emotional attachment"....

 

Maybe the spouse needs to be up in arms!

 

Look, I don't advocate swinging or open relationships. I just advocate for openness in communication, and honesty with ourselves and each other. Sometimes a conversation about sexual dissatisfaction will include discussion of non-monogamy. The discussion is a good thing, imo, regardless of how the individual falls on the subject.

 

Why be afraid of ideas and discussion?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

and this thread hit me while responding to another thread and wondering how terrible this situation must be.....

 

Your poor husband has been told of his shortcomings (I only hope/pray his penis is big enough), and wonder the pressure he must feel when you do have sex as you have put the onus on him (and yes he may deserve it) to pick up his game....

 

Now a man may be bad in bed, no foreplay, variety, one position, scared to go diving, slobbering kisser, no rhythm, quick trigger.... or just plain selfish....

 

How does he feel being told he just sucks as a lover if he is putting in the effort???? And what hope is there????

Edited September 25, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[LittleTiger]

and this thread hit me while responding to another thread and wondering how terrible this situation must be.....

 

Your poor husband has been told of his shortcomings (I only hope/pray his penis is big enough), and wonder the pressure he must feel when you do have sex as you have put the onus on him (and yes he may deserve it) to pick up his game....

 

Now a man may be bad in bed, no foreplay, variety, one position, scared to go diving, slobbering kisser, no rhythm, quick trigger.... or just plain selfish....

 

How does he feel being told he just sucks as a lover if he is putting in the effort???? And what hope is there????

 

Can't speak for the OP obviously, she seems to have disappeared, so I'm guessing here but I don't think she will have told her husband he sucks in bed. I'm sure she's not that insensitive. More likely she has told him that their sex life just isn't working any more.

 

When my ex and I discussed our sex life, as one part of why our marriage failed, we talked about it as a joint thing. It wasn't good and we both admitted it - we talked a bit about what was lacking on both sides but we didn't blame each other. We acknowledged that we were failing to satisfy one another. At the point when you are about to split there's no need to say any more.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

@ Plan 9 from OS

 

Trust me that my cues are not subtle. We have had very frank and open discussions about this and continue to do so. I have provided him with feedback and tutorial on and off for the past 2 or so years, and we have recently been trying to continue to do this sort of communication with even more consistency and more frequency. Time will tell if this recent flurry of communication will help.

 

I think she has told him loud and clear that he sucks..... Above is just one of many posts she made.....