Is bad sex enough of a reason to end a marriage?

September 13, 2010

It is sustained through behaviors--but that isn't sexual chemistry. That is sexual psychology.
The point is, if the chemistry is "off", no amt of behaviors can create sexual attraction. Only the OP can tell if that is the case with her and her husband.

I would guess that 70% of what creates sexual chemistry is behavior. I think it varies somewhat from person to person... but I don't think it ever really dips below 50%.

Even just raw attraction is extremely influenced by behavior. 200 years ago skinny tan women where the exact opposite of attractive.

September 13, 2010

So... your husband is lacking that certain cool factor and your looking for more of a James Dean type?

Thats kind of what I'm hearing.

Actually, what I'm referring to with my comment is that for women, there are multiple and interconnected factors, some conscious and some that are sub-conscious, that determine whether there is sexual attraction.

For men, I find their "checklists" to be much simpler:

pulse + breasts + blond hair = yep, I'd jump her if I had the chance

versus in women, the thought process is generally more complex:

treats grandma well + looks cute with baby in arms + funny + charming + romantic = let's see whether he has good table manners too and then I MAY be able to decide whether I'm even interested in dating him, let alone whether I want to have sex with him

Of course, this is a huge generalization, but funny to think about.

September 13, 2010

One last thought in your thread.

Maybe just some complete honesty would solve the issue? If you sat down and told him exactly what the problem is... he may be willing to just amiably divorce.

I mean you might not have sexual chemistry with him... but that doesnt mean nobody else will. He may want to find someone with whom he can have the whole enchilada... just like you!

I told him a while ago that I don't think we are sexually compatible; he was not surprised by this news. He is not against a divorce but we would like to see what other options are out there first. Also, a part of me still feels that lack of sexual chemistry is a superficial reason to divorce someone (hence my original question on the forum).

September 13, 2010

Thanks, TDP. To answer your questions, no, we do not have children; yes, we have read some resource materials together about techniques, we have shared erotica, we have made lists of likes and dislikes, we have plenty of toys, we have done the "touch me here" and "like this" tutorials; we are currently looking for a sex therapist (these are super busy folks -- appointments are hard to get!).

A sex surrogate -- what an unusual job that must be. Anyway, certainly something for consideration if it will help.

to improve the situation. Now the question is whether you want to go further, which is a therapist or being serious a surrogate. Since rightly or wrongly you have taken on the roll of a teacher and that more then anything can build resentment and frustration. Trust me, you don't have kids, but tutoring them is/was an exercise in frustration at times.

Good Luck..... Glad you did not bail on the site at the first sign of negativity.

September 13, 2010

Actually, what I'm referring to with my comment is that for women, there are multiple and interconnected factors, some conscious and some that are sub-conscious, that determine whether there is sexual attraction.
For men, I find their "checklists" to be much simpler:
pulse + breasts + blond hair = yep, I'd jump her if I had the chance
versus in women, the thought process is generally more complex:
treats grandma well + looks cute with baby in arms + funny + charming + romantic = let's see whether he has good table manners too and then I MAY be able to decide whether I'm even interested in dating him, let alone whether I want to have sex with him
Of course, this is a huge generalization, but funny to think about.

I agree with what your saying overall. One thing I know for sure you can't fix is respect, and it really seems like in some ways you can't really respect the guy.

That's fine... It kind of is what it is at that point.

There are several different types of chemistry I think I've experienced and sometimes you need a combination: Comfortable, Opposites (especially potent for low self esteem people), Similar (completing each others sentences and wearing matching t-shirts), Raw Lust (what your missing), and Fun.

I told him a while ago that I don't think we are sexually compatible; he was not surprised by this news. He is not against a divorce but we would like to see what other options are out there first. Also, a part of me still feels that lack of sexual chemistry is a superficial reason to divorce someone (hence my original question on the forum).

I've met some people (men and women) that will happily sit in extremely abusive relationships because the overall chemistry is there.

September 13, 2010

I've met some people (men and women) that will happily sit in extremely abusive relationships because the overall chemistry is there.

Raw lust is what most people think of as sexual chemistry (lust is the part that's created by compatible pheromones) - that and sexual preferences is what makes people sexually compatible. The rest is chemistry of a different sort and is equally important in a successful long term relationship.

I may have misunderstood here, but the sentance I've quoted above seems to contradict your idea of what sexual chemistry is. How can your idea of sexual chemistry exist in an abusive relationship? I agree that lust can be part of an abusive relationship, as can co-dependency, lack of self-esteem and any number of other unhealthy factors, but chemistry? In my opinion that is not chemistry.

September 13, 2010

I told him a while ago that I don't think we are sexually compatible; he was not surprised by this news. He is not against a divorce but we would like to see what other options are out there first. Also, a part of me still feels that lack of sexual chemistry is a superficial reason to divorce someone (hence my original question on the forum).

I think I can empathise with your situation R&HP. Although my marriage ended for a number of reasons, some of the issues we had with our sex life are very similar as I explained in earlier posts.

My apologies for the comment about maybe having your eye on someone else. I suspected others on here were thinking it and was hoping you would come forward to deny it so we could focus on the real issue.

From what you say, it seems you never really felt much physical attraction towards your husband, although everything else was there in bucket loads. If so, it's very sad and maybe a tough thing to accept, but if everything else in your marriage really is as rosy as you say, then the level of attraction you feel for him now is as good as it's going to get.

Only you can decide whether a good sex life is important enough to give up what you already have. It's very easy for us to sit in judgement and say 'how can you give up a man/life like that' but most relationships are a compromise and you probably already know, deep down, if the way you're currently living is too much of a compromise for you.

September 15, 2010

I have been married to my husband for 10 years. I love my husband very much and we are compatible in every aspect except in the bedroom. Unfortunately, I am not sexually excited by my husband -- and it's not that he is obese or has poor hygiene or anything like that. In fact, physically, he is quite handsome and I know he has very little trouble gaining attention from women (this doesn't bother me as I know he is unfailingly faithful and doesn't even notice when other women are hitting on him or checking him out).

The problem is that he doesn't seem to know how to turn me on. We have discussed what are turn ons and what are turn offs. I've tried to guide him on what to do and how to do it, but he is either too rushed, or to gentle, or too hard, or too _________ (fill in the blank). He tries really hard but he just can't seem to read me or my reactions very well to know what to do, when, and how. This frustrates me since I don't want to have to continually provide instructions every moment as that takes away from my experience.

I find myself actually dreading his sexual advances now because I know that it will not be an enjoyable experience for me. I continue to accept his sexual advances because I want him to have his needs satisfied, but I want that same satisfaction for myself.

We've tried other things to try to rekindle the intimacy in our relationship, including getting away on romantic vacations, date nights, sex toys, and other things. None of these really seem to be working, however.

Like many women, as I have gotten older, I have become more sexually needy and I am now realizing how important sexual compatibility is to a marriage. Clearly, myself and my husband aren't sexually compatible, despite being right for each other in every other way. And I now feel like I have a tough choice to make:

1. To stay in this marriage and simply accept that the price to pay for his everlasting companionship is my sexual gratification,

OR

2. To end the marriage and find someone who can satisfy my sexual needs, while acknowledging that I may not find the same level of compatibility in other areas of my life with a new person as what I currently have with my husband.

I am torn and need some input to help me sort through this dilemma. What would you do?

You've been married for ten years, and you're going to debate ending it because of sex? lack of love, lost trust, maybe, but sex. If you both are literally trying anything and everything to well..get you off. Who is to say you'll get off with someone else?

Anyway, it's a 10 year marriage, it sounds like everything else about it is good, and it seems like he's willing to try anything and everything to well get you off. So I dunno just keep finding more intimacy and sex books and try out things. If you guys need a somewhat open sexual relationship, well you need it, and he is okay with it. perhaps that's what is necessary. Other options perhaps you both stop having sex for a while and see when you crave it?

Other option, maybe you're not physically attracted to him anymore. You said he's not obese, but perhaps he's just not that rock hard body you've always wanted? maybe if he started dieting and hitting the gym he may turn you on more right? and as a loving husband, who wouldn't want to find a way to turn on their wife a bit more in bed?

Also in sex, maybe he can dedicate 10-30 minutes of straight foreplay before getting himself off just on you. But you have to just relax, maybe you're thinking about trying to enjoy it so much, that it's preventing you from actually enjoying it and getting off. I honestly had that problem with my fiancee. I was so worried about losing it, that I couldn't enjoy it, that I would lose it. While when I just did what I did, enjoyed it, I got off much faster, and at the same time she felt less self conscious about herself and also got off too.

September 15, 2010

a part of me still feels that lack of sexual chemistry is a superficial reason to divorce someone (hence my original question on the forum).

-Short answer, yes. Seriously just keep trying, and maybe you need to just relax a little bit as I wrote in my earlier post. maybe you are thinking so hard about getting off and whether or not he's going to do it that it's really what is preventing you. If he is literally trying everything with you, who is to say anyone can turn you on. I mean the only thing a man can't do really is well...make his d*ck bigger (well you can but most men won't go through that extent). But at the same time if you are using toys and it's still not working, not even a guy with a bigger d*ck would make a difference. Was sex ever good with him?

September 15, 2010

She didn't think sex was important and was not too into it to start. We have again only half the story. I like her honesty and there are significant issues to work through.

What is very difficult to ascertain here is the proverbial chicken or egg scenario. She married someone she loves, is attractive, respects, is intellectually strong and is a great partner. Sex was not a priority for HER in making the decision to marry.... Don't know his view at all regarding sex and the marriage.

So as they grow and she and him are open (she is honest about toys and working at it), and sex does become a growing need for her (lot's of husbands reading this now, wishing they were married to her;)), but again don't know the importance he places on it, what place it played in his life to date and in fect his decision to marry, but now is told that his skill in her eyes is minimal and frankly not improving.... So again the question is, how does she know all this and what was the tipping point. Sex wasn't important, so while she may have had partners prior to marriage, but they never did enough to really arouse the feeling in her or it would always be there and she would have known 10 years ago he was not the one. Now it is bad (and maybe always was) with her husband, but is that truly the case or has she convinced herself of it......

I don't know, neither does she I suspect and poor H is completely lost in all this and we have no idea what he thinks.....

Edited September 16, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

September 16, 2010

she is entitled to change her mind... maybe sex wasn't a priority at the beginning, but it is now. We are not static individuals, we grow and develop. Now she has to decide whether sex is a good enough reason to divorce. They have no children, so I would say yes, if it's making her miserable. Sexual incompatibility is a killer...

September 16, 2010

she is entitled to change her mind... maybe sex wasn't a priority at the beginning, but it is now. We are not static individuals, we grow and develop. Now she has to decide whether sex is a good enough reason to divorce. They have no children, so I would say yes, if it's making her miserable. Sexual incompatibility is a killer...

I agree giotto, she does have every right to change her mind and sexual incompatibility is indeed a killer - of marriages!

What I don't understand about this situation is that the 'marital relationship' is described by the OP as still being intact, and it's apparently a good relationship too. So why isn't the bad sex destroying that?

Usually bad sex builds resentment and emotional intimacy is lost but the OP says that isn't the case.

On the other hand, some of the things she has said about her husband suggest that she has less respect for him than might be necessary in a good marriage. I know loss of respect (probably on both sides) was certainly an issue in my own situation.

So I'm not at all surprised at the OPs confusion. Somehow things don't quite add up.

R&HP, have you asked yourself how it is that your relationship is still so good when your sex life is so bad? Perhaps when you have worked that out, it may give you the answer you're looking for and enable you to make your decision.

September 16, 2010

What I don't understand about this situation is that the 'marital relationship' is described by the OP as still being intact, and it's apparently a good relationship too. So why isn't the bad sex destroying that?

Usually bad sex builds resentment and emotional intimacy is lost but the OP says that isn't the case.

I think she's still in the first stages of realisation... the resentment will start building up soon... she's probably just realised that she is not able to change him after all, despite all her effort.... or, at least, this is my impression.

September 16, 2010

I think she's still in the first stages of realisation... the resentment will start building up soon... she's probably just realised that she is not able to change him after all, despite all her effort.... or, at least, this is my impression.

Yes you are right, it is her prerogative. The question however is how this was conveyed to her husband and what he has done. I like the OP's honesty and the fact she has talked and tried to work through it. But what kills me is cold calculative way it is conveyed and happens. Is this no different then your wife turning off and saying no to sex with you or rolling her eyes at the idea of it. Or a spouse cheating or having an EA?

Of course we change and things take priority. The good news is they are trying to work there way through them and there are no children.

September 16, 2010

Yes you are right, it is her prerogative. The question however is how this was conveyed to her husband and what he has done. I like the OP's honesty and the fact she has talked and tried to work through it. But what kills me is cold calculative way it is conveyed and happens. Is this no different then your wife turning off and saying no to sex with you or rolling her eyes at the idea of it. Or a spouse cheating or having an EA?

Of course we change and things take priority. The good news is they are trying to work there way through them and there are no children.

I don't think the OP is being cold and calculating here. My understanding, is that she has acknowledged, right from the word go, that sex wasn't great between them. She accepted that, intially, as part of the package and they have been working to put it right for a long time.

The wisdom of going into a marriage hoping you can change your spouse, or his/her behaviour, is perhaps a topic for a different discussion?

As her need for sex has grown over the years, so has her frustration that things aren't working out (at least not for her - as you say we don't know his side of the story) and when she realised she couldn't find an answer to what she considers a predicament (great marriage, bad sex) she decided to came looking for help on LS.

I could be wrong, but I don't think she's dropped any bombshells on him. At least not yet.

September 16, 2010

1. To stay in this marriage and simply accept that the price to pay for his everlasting companionship is my sexual gratification,

OR

2. To end the marriage and find someone who can satisfy my sexual needs, while acknowledging that I may not find the same level of compatibility in other areas of my life with a new person as what I currently have with my husband.

I am torn and need some input to help me sort through this dilemma. What would you do?

You have to decide which is more important to you. A great sex life or spending the rest of your life with someone that knows you well, loves you, supports you and has your back, no matter what.

I suggest you seek some counselling to help you decide, and maybe go with your husband to a sex therapist. Maybe he just hasn't had much experience in general with sex..Or the fact that he doesn't turn you on to begin with isn't helping the situation much either.

September 16, 2010

I am in my mid-thirties.

I realize that no one is perfect. I don't expect perfection, and hence in the options I listed, I acknowledge that there is potentially a trade off to be made. My question is about whether the trade off I am considering is reasonable.

Some may call it settling, but it's up to you. If you can live without great sex, then stay. You need to decide what is more important in the long run. What if you divorce, find a guy who is great in bed, but doesn't have the same qualities that your husband has. A not so good relationship and good sex isn't a healthy combo either..

Sex and intimacy, that closeness, is part of the glue that holds a couple together.

September 16, 2010

I don't think the OP is being cold and calculating here. My understanding, is that she has acknowledged, right from the word go, that sex wasn't great between them. She accepted that, intially, as part of the package and they have been working to put it right for a long time.

The wisdom of going into a marriage hoping you can change your spouse, or his/her behaviour, is perhaps a topic for a different discussion?

As her need for sex has grown over the years, so has her frustration that things aren't working out (at least not for her - as you say we don't know his side of the story) and when she realised she couldn't find an answer to what she considers a predicament (great marriage, bad sex) she decided to came looking for help on LS.

I could be wrong, but I don't think she's dropped any bombshells on him. At least not yet.

Thanks, Little Tiger. Yes, your summation of my situation is correct. I have not dropped any bombshells on him -- we are both very direct people and would rather face situations head-on than let things sit-and-stew, so to speak.

He has not been under any false impressions that sex between us has been great, but like me, he accepted it as part and parcel of the relationship we have. We both recognized that it was a compromise in the relationship. In our eyes, it was no different than how we manage the fact that he's a neat-freak and I'm a slob -- I have learned to not procrastinate picking up after myself and he has learned to accept my definition of "neat". There are times when I would rather just leave my dishes in the sink and not think about them until the morning and there are times when he will look at the desk in the study and wish that the piles of paper I've created are not there. But we are not the types to hold grudges and we keep motoring on.

In my discussions with my husband, he of course wants a more fulfilling sex life as well. I'm not sure how optimistic he is that sex therapy will help us, but I know that he is also questioning and re-evaluating our relationship in light of this change in my attitude towards sex. We have agreed that there is no sense in staying in a relationship in which we are not happy, but I don't think that either of us are ready to declare that we are not happy; only dissatisfied with the quality of our sex lives and it is yet to be seen whether this dissatisfaction will be a cause of true unhappiness.

September 17, 2010

not the point. I actually believe her when she says there is not. IR's posts though have resonance and the fact is the poor husband probably has no chance to correct it once she made up her mind.... Add to that an IC who has pushed her to think about an open marriage and swinging..... Talk about pandora's box.....

September 17, 2010

Sorry, I think all the signs are there.

I did re-read the entire thread (quickly) and I suppose it's possible there isn't actually a real-life OM. But it's clear that we don't have all the information about what's really going on in this relationship to make any kind of judgments one way or the other.

In re-reading this whole thread, though, the thought occurred to me that there is only one way OP could really know that sex with another man would be significantly better than what she's had with her h for the past ten years. There's only one way she could really know that the sex problems in the marriage should be attributed to his ineptness rather than her lack of responsiveness.

And that's by doing a controlled experiment. By actually testing the hypothesis that sex with a man other than her husband would in fact be significantly more satisfactory than her marital sex.

She is very calmly confident that the problem is clearly him, not her. There is no doubt in her mind. Most people would be filled with self-doubt and insecurity...is it really him? Maybe it's me?

This is the type of knowledge that can generally only be gained through actual experience.

and I said it in other posts.... Either she had such a vast history prior to marriage and then I wonder if some one really took her to that rapturous point she should have known it was never going to work with H, or she just is using sex as an exit strategy fualed my her counselor who suggested swinging and an open marriage.....

September 17, 2010

This is the type of knowledge that can generally only be gained through actual experience.

She could have had experience of great sex with somebody else before she got married........and before you say why did she marry him then, she's already said that sex wasn't that important to her when she was younger and there were a lot of things about the relationship that were a higher priority - it happens! It happens all the time.

My theory is that some women choose a partner based on how great a friend/companion/father they believe he will be. Years later, as animals, their instincts start to get in the way of the cosy (sometimes almost asexual) life they've created and they become frustrated and unhappy. Yes, sometimes they do stray, eventually, but I don't believe the OP has reached that point.

Most men, on the other hand, wouldn't consider marrying a woman unless they thought she was 'hot' and they expected/hoped to have great sex with her - regardless of how good a friend/companion/mother she might make.

Long term relationships really aren't as simple as 'I fancy you', 'you fancy me', lets get it on and make it permanent. There's no such thing as the perfect partner and we all make sacrifices in one area or another. For the OP (and maybe her partner too - we don't know) it was sex that she/they compromised on. That's their choice to make and not ours to criticise. In addition, relationships change over the years, people change, priorities change - again it happens. Life is not a bed or roses.

If you're trying to say that she shouldn't even be thinking about what she's missing, I would direct you to the millions of men who turn to 'outside' stimulation to get their kicks. Whether that's porn (which women are supposed to just accept as a normal part of being a man ) or 'mentally undressing' women they see in the street (yes, we know most of you do that).

There are a lot of men on LS expressing dissatisfaction with their sex lives and the usual response is to sympathise with them, not to assume that there's another woman they're interested in. It's a bit rich to point the finger just because the OP is a woman. Not all problems related to sex in a marriage are to do with a third party.

We asked the OP if there was anyone else involved and she said 'no'. I see no reason to disbelieve her. I don't know the woman, so I take what she says at face value. It's unfair to do anything else.

September 17, 2010

She could have had experience of great sex with somebody else before she got married........and before you say why did she marry him then, she's already said that sex wasn't that important to her when she was younger and there were a lot of things about the relationship that were a higher priority - it happens! It happens all the time.

My theory is that some women choose a partner based on how great a friend/companion/father they believe he will be. Years later, as animals, their instincts start to get in the way of the cosy (sometimes almost asexual) life they've created and they become frustrated and unhappy. Yes, sometimes they do stray, eventually, but I don't believe the OP has reached that point.

Most men, on the other hand, wouldn't consider marrying a woman unless they thought she was 'hot' and they expected/hoped to have great sex with her - regardless of how good a friend/companion/mother she might make.

Long term relationships really aren't as simple as 'I fancy you', 'you fancy me', lets get it on and make it permanent. There's no such thing as the perfect partner and we all make sacrifices in one area or another. For the OP (and maybe her partner too - we don't know) it was sex that she/they compromised on. That's their choice to make and not ours to criticise. In addition, relationships change over the years, people change, priorities change - again it happens. Life is not a bed or roses.

If you're trying to say that she shouldn't even be thinking about what she's missing, I would direct you to the millions of men who turn to 'outside' stimulation to get their kicks. Whether that's porn (which women are supposed to just accept as a normal part of being a man ) or 'mentally undressing' women they see in the street (yes, we know most of you do that).

There are a lot of men on LS expressing dissatisfaction with their sex lives and the usual response is to sympathise with them, not to assume that there's another woman they're interested in. It's a bit rich to point the finger just because the OP is a woman. Not all problems related to sex in a marriage are to do with a third party.

We asked the OP if there was anyone else involved and she said 'no'. I see no reason to disbelieve her. I don't know the woman, so I take what she says at face value. It's unfair to do anything else.

10 years is a long time and there are no children, so that is a red flag that can/should be further investigated.... If sex was so good before, she should have known so so long ago that this was going no where and this is not a woman who strikes me as looking at marriage as a way out.....

And outside 1-2 men..... All here on LS complain that they had great sex prior to marriage and early on..... The issue comes down to simply QUANTITY....

September 17, 2010

not difficult to understand... she's probably never been that satisfied with her sex life, but other qualities made her stick to to her man. Obviously, as she has said, her sex life wasn't her number one priority at the beginning. But now, after years of unsatisfactory sex, her attitude towards sex has changed. It's more important for her now. It happens and she is trying to establish whether a good sex life is now so important that she has to leave her man to pursue it. I'm not a woman, but women do marry for many different reasons and very often sex is not the first item of the list... I don't see anything strange about this situation...

September 17, 2010

Is amazing sex reason alone to get married?

September 17, 2010

Is amazing sex reason alone to get married?

No!

But, even with everything else in place (friendship etc) I bet most men wouldn't get married if the sex wasn't at least pretty good.

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Is bad sex enough of a reason to end a marriage?

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