Why and When I come to Loveshack

[Simon Attwood]

Sorry didn't mean to offend. And I don't mean to offend again with this post. I'm just commenting on what I see, like Bonpaw said, giving external insight.

 

It seems to me, from what you've written, that she is a project to you. You want to fix her problems, to fix her, to reveal the inner diamond that is covered by layers of dirt. Like buying an old car and making it new by replacing all its parts, to make it shine and perform well. You're definitely a fixer, I guess that's why you've been helping people on this forum for a long time, without really explaining your own situation. You love to help people, and fix their problems. Nothing wrong with that at all, I am the same! Unfortunately, "fixer-uppers" very rarely work out in relationships. I've had 2, and neither worked well. I fixed them both up, gave them confidence, self-worth, physical makeovers, personality upgrades, and set their minds free. And you know what... after everything I'd given them, they both took that freedom, kicked me to the kerb, and found someone else.

 

Of course I don't expect you to dump her based on what I'm saying. That would make me a hypocrite of the highest order. Like I said in my previous post, I stayed with a mentally ill woman for 9 years, going to all her doctors appointments, putting up with her bad moods and behaviour, checking her in and out of hospitals. She needed me for her sanity. How could I dump her, knowing that it would have ruined her? I stayed with her because I loved her, and I was blind to how dysfunctional the relationship really was. So, I am not telling you to dump her. I'm just saying... it's not a healthy relationship and it probably won't end well.

 

Being with someone who needs you is bad, bad, BAD. You should be with someone who wants you. Someone who is capable of living on their own without you, or of finding someone else, but chooses to stay with you. That is the only type of woman I am going to accept from now on. No more fixer-uppers.

 

Pete,

 

What you said was fine and I understand where it was coming from, given this post, I understand even more.

 

We can only base our opinions and reactions on other's situations based upon our own experiences and how we have reacted or think we would react.

 

I think it a little dismissive to suggest she is "a project", or to label me "a fixer". I never set out to have a project nor to be a fixer other than for myself to be a project and for me to fix myself. The rest kind of just happens naturally, it's not something that's forced.

 

80% of the time it is a healthy relationship, those that know us are sometimes caught out when they see these conflicts for the first time as they perceived us as the happiest, loving and understanding couple they know, then there are these episodes.

[florence of suburbia]

but it is better to not go far enough, than to go too far.

 

Not if the person genuinely wants you gone.

 

Maybe it's me, but the idea of hanging around where I'm not wanted is my worst nightmare.

[Simon Attwood]

Not if the person genuinely wants you gone.

 

I'd say that 95% of the time in relationships, it is not the person that wants you gone, it's the inner animal that feels trapped, cornered and threatened and looking for an escape. 95% of the time, I am pretty sure there are regrets and doubts afterwards, whether expressed or not.

 

Maybe it's me, but the idea of hanging around where I'm not wanted is my worst nightmare.

 

No, it's not you, it's your ego

 

You see, I want to be where ever I want to be, where another person wants me to be is somewhat irrelevant. Unless they are paying me to be there

Edited September 8, 2010 by Simon Attwood

[florence of suburbia]

I'd say that 95% of the time in relationships, it is not the person that wants you gone, it's the inner animal that feels trapped, cornered and threatened and looking for an escape. 95% of the time, I am pretty sure there are regrets and doubts afterwards, whether expressed or not.

 

 

 

No, it's not you, it's your ego

 

You see, I want to be where ever I want to be, where another person wants me to be is somewhat irrelevant. Unless they are paying me to be there

You're half convincing me, but I'm afraid it is because I want to believe you. When is sticking by someone a strength and when is it a weakness? How can we know the difference? And how can we know when someone really wants us gone and when they want us to step back, but not go away?

[Simon Attwood]

Rather than helping this woman, you are enabling her bad behaviour. You seem happy with that, though, so that's the end of the story, presumably?

 

I do think the advice you've given some people on LS stinks, though, so that's a shame. If you want to have a dysfunctional relationship, that's your business but I'd prefer it if you stopped encouraging others to do the same because it makes all of your nonsense more 'normal' to you.

 

I also get the impression you don't much care for what anyone else thinks (apart from your damaged wife), so I'll leave it at that.

 

x

 

If that's your perception then I can't see the point of your post, other than as a "hit and run" on other people's stories, as, having searched through your history the vast majority of your posts seem to be!

 

As per the theme of this thread, I'll be on loveshack a lot less from now on, I may be back next week, I may be back in a couple of months, I may be back next year, I may not come back at all.

 

The point being; "life" you cannot know and it is attempts to know that are ultimately dysfunctional, attempts to apply certainty to the future; something that is in it's essence uncertain, attempts to control the future that ultimately lead to losing control of the future. Let it happen, let it be, let it look after itself, while you look after yourself in The Now.

 

Relationships cannot be dysfunctional, only people can be dysfunctional and bring dysfunction to their relationship. The root of that is buried in the compensation for a lack of consistent loving as an infant.

 

In a way, by enabling her bad behaviour I am reflecting it back at her, like a mother would do to their infant. When these episodes subside, when the amygdala calms down and cortisol levels even out, she is able to see that.

 

I would like to see you put more constructive work in to Love Shack, Mick, rather than the "hit and runs" I have seen, before I would consider entertaining your opinion seriously.

[Simon Attwood]

You're half convincing me, but I'm afraid it is because I want to believe you. When is sticking by someone a strength and when is it a weakness? How can we know the difference? And how can we know when someone really wants us gone and when they want us to step back, but not go away?

 

Florence, these are things we cannot know and it is trying to know them that causes dysfunction. The strength comes from accepting that the essence of the future is uncertainty, and living in The Now.

[Simon Attwood]

Thanks for proving my point Mr. Attwood.

Yes I was expecting that response.

 

Maybe I should stop biting and allowing you to keep reversing back over the thread and just let you go play your hit and run game on someone else's thread. eh?

[GrayClouds]

If that's your perception then I can't see the point of your post, other than as a "hit and run" on other people's stories, as, having searched through your history the vast majority of your posts seem to be!

 

After reading through the thread I am left with a similar response to the OP's. What is the point of it?It does not appear your actually wanting advice nor willing to accept any if given.

 

At best it looks as if you craving attention and requesting admiration for a self destructive, pseudo-intellectual rationalization gleamed from the combination of a freshman psychology class, one to many self help books, and repeated watching of "The Secrete" that justifies your addiction to living a dysfunctional life and diluting yourself of the fact your refusing to take responsibility for your own while being fixated on fixing others, when in fact you ignore applying any of that effort towards yourself.

 

It reminds me of something I read one drunken night on a bathroom on wall in this great dingy bar just outside the French Quarters of New Orleans:

 

"And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country."

 

It is good advice even if your just playing Doctor.

 

 

 

.

Edited September 12, 2010 by GrayClouds

[hopesndreams]

I agree with GrayClouds.

 

I also wonder what happened to mickleb's posts?

 

The last 19 days of her posts appear to have been deleted, too.

 

She's a friend of mine, as it happens, and tells me her account is currently suspended for this reason:

Your account is currently restricted from the forum. If a reason was given by the moderators, it will appear below:

Posting with intent to annoy, detract

You may contact us for additional information or assistance in restoring access to the site.

 

Funny thing, that, eh..?

 

 

x

 

That's too bad. I concurred with all she said. Tell her that when you talk to her.

[mickleb]

I thought it was time I shared my current situation.

 

I've spoken of a previous traumatic relationship here before, and how that and other, previous, experiences stimulated my study in to relationship conflict, but now want to talk about my current relationship.

 

I met this woman in March 2006. She lived in Manchester, I lived in London (about 300 miles away for those that don't know the geography). She was down visiting cousins. We had 2 ½ wonderful months together. One day, in the kitchen of her flat in Manchester, while she had a small group of friends over, I'd made the effort to produce all the food for the small impromptu party. The evening was going well. We were both a little tipsy. She looked at me across the kitchen, with everyone there, and said "I love you". It was a bolt out of the blue and the effect it caused was that it was like everyone else disappeared for a few moments. The next day, I was due to return to London, she couldn't look at me, she wouldn't talk to me, she couldn't have been more distant, more shut off. I returned to London on the train, the following day I called her, a man answered, I asked to speak to her, he handed her the phone, and she said "I can't speak to you right now, i am on the toilet".

 

you can imagine my response.

 

The following day I received a text message saying "I am sorry but I can't see you any more". I immediately phone her, she is cold, distant and adamant.

 

I don't see her again for 4 months. And she refuses to speak to me when I try and call. I even travel to Manchester a few times to try and confront her, but she avoids me.

 

And then one day I receive a call, she's in trouble at work, facing accusations of abuse, and needs a shoulder and some advice. I get on the train again and go to Manchester. We talk about her problem, we talk about us and what happened, etc. I return to London.

 

The following weekend I return to Manchester at her request, yet on the Sunday I am due to return, she again pushes me away. I leave, quietly and unannounced, she calls my name as I walk out the door, I ignore her. She tries to phone me, I ignore her. 2 days later I get another phone call and I am busy on site at work and I am unable to answer, so a text message follows; "I cannot keep running away from the person I want to be with, will you marry me? I don't want to lose you".

 

To cut a long story short, I said yes.

 

more to follow

 

I feel sorry for you.

[Simon Attwood]

I feel sorry for you.

 

Don't, feel sorry for yourself

[hopesndreams]

What's going to happen when she's all better? Will you still be needed? Would you still feel needed?

[PegNosePete]

What's going to happen when she's all better? Will you still be needed? Would you still feel needed?

Being needed in a relationship is bad. Being wanted is good.

 

Someone being with you because they totally rely on you is sure to end in disaster when they get better. Someone who could choose to leave at any time but chooses to stay, is how a relationship should work.

 

I've learned this the hard way, twice. No more fixer-uppers for me.

[Simon Attwood]

What's going to happen when she's all better? Will you still be needed? Would you still feel needed?

 

 

I'd like to point out that your questions make 2 assumptions; That I am only needed as a "fixer", and that I only feel needed as a "fixer". Both assumptions are ridiculous.

 

As I have stated elswhere, 80% of the time my wife is a loving, caring and generous person. There's no fixing going on at all. We have .... "episodes", times when she shows too much intimacy to feel comfortable with, this stimulates a powerful sense of her vulnerability which in turn stimulates a ferocious defence mechanism. These episodes, I believe, are driven by her early abandonment by her mother.

 

there's no enabling bad behaviour, there's just understanding, tolerance and patience.

 

I was asked a short while ago why I started this thread. I started it to show that there is another choice, another path, to the one that seems to have taken up an almost religious dominance on this site.

 

Someone mentioned manipulation; it is the defensive mechanisms that are manipulative, they seek to escalate conflict and so cement defensive positions. It becomes self feeding, self sustaining, a vicious cycle of defensive manoeuvres that escalate defensive postures, magnify conflict. When one reacts defensively, the natural reaction is to respond defensively, thus enabling an escalation of the conflict.

 

There's a choice to be taken, you can choose not to respond defensively, not to go in to protective mode. I am not saying "be weak and manipulated", I am not saying "be manipulative", I am saying "stand your ground without allowing yourself to vulnerable to another person trying to cause you harm", I am saying "fight against the desire to be defensive", as that is destructive and counter-productive.

 

The Dalai Lama posted this on facebook today;

 

To familiarize ourselves with the virtue of patience, it is very helpful to think of adversity not so much as a threat to our peace of mind but rather as the very means by which patience is attained. From this perspective, we see that those who would harm us are, in a sense, teachers of patience. Such people teach us what we could never learn merely from hearing someone speak, be they ever so wise or holy.

 

I think that sums up my position quite nicely.

 

Both your questions, and your username, suggested to me a fixation on future and future security. I do not waste my time with it, prefering to live in The Now.

 

But to answer your question "what's going to happen?"; I don't know, I'll let that take care of itself and worry about this moment, right now, right here.

 

[mickleb]

Hmmn..yes.. I guess you could define the Nazis as "teachers of patience". You could, however, describe them otherwise..

[hopesndreams]

But to answer your question "what's going to happen?"; I don't know, I'll let that take care of itself and worry about this moment, right now, right here.

 

Different mindsets. I like to look at the bigger picture.