Heather1 Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 Haven't posted for awhile, because we were in LC, which turned to one more round of sex & kind of "how's the weather" chats after that. I didn't pursue anything more or expect anything more. He brings up his guilt ALL THE TIME, so I was surprised when on a whim we both had free time & got together. That was about a month ago....so last week, he finally brought up a "future" by accident. In my mind, I've never even gone to a future w/ him since I figured a lot of drama & grief would be involved & was fine w/ how things were. Wanted to see him more, that was it. But he brought it up & I was shocked to hear that even if we were both free from our spouses, he doesn't think things would work out with us. Then he asked more questions about my marriage & I told him that one of the things I liked about him & us is we don't do the whole "trouble with our M" thing. It is what it is. He tells me he wants me to be happy, and that I should leave my H to be with someone else but made it clear that someone else was not going to be him? I'm not sad about this, at least I know .....not something I even thought about really. It's just that now I'm kind of "what's the point?" He said he doesn't want to go NC again, cuz that doesn't work (alright, it was painful but I didn't have to check my damn phone every 5 min.). So really what I heard is "leave your H, I'm not leaving my W & how much sex are you having?" in a nutshell. I told him I was having lots of sex, which isn't true, but I don't want to tell him about my M since we made an agreement to stay with our spouses. Why the advice to leave my H? And the declaration that we have NO future (w/out his W) & that he loves his wife? Here's what's on my mind.....I'm not going to be having sex w/ him again if all it is is a weak moment for him cuz he's a guy. Any clue on what he's talking about? Why the heck does he want me to get divorced & tell me he's happily married?
YellowShark Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 Any clue on what he's talking about? Why the heck does he want me to get divorced & tell me he's happily married? He wants to continue to bang you without having to deal with A) leaving his wife, and B) you being married. He's a cake-eater who also seems very narcissistic by telling you what to do with your life WHILE cheating on his wife at the same time. Sounds like a win-win for him and a lose-lose for you. Best of luck.
Author Heather1 Posted September 5, 2010 Author Posted September 5, 2010 Ohhhhhh....you mean he wants me to divorce my H so it's just him & have the same situation w/ no more competition? He doesn't know I have no intentions of ever having sex w/ him again. That convo was a total turn off.
YellowShark Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 Ohhhhhh....you mean he wants me to divorce my H so it's just him & have the same situation w/ no more competition? I cannot be 100% sure what is really going through his mind. But from what you wrote that is EXACTLY what he seems to want. He wants to bang you, without the complication of you being married... WHILE he stays married. He doesn't know I have no intentions of ever having sex w/ him again. That convo was a total turn off. Oh I bet when you tell him that it will not go over well with him. Once again I cannot be sure what is going through his mind but IMHO he sees you as a sex toy to use as he wishes.
Silly_Girl Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 That sounds terrible Heather. Kind of twisted. If he'd come at it all altruistic, and things were long dead between you, I could understand him (as a friend, who knows you) saying he didn't think your M was right for you. But that's not it at all is it? I think you have a good handle on this and I wonder whether now (or very soon) might be an ideal time to do NC. Properly this time. You don't need his games. You need the peace so you can focus on what you want FROM LIFE, and your husband and not someone who seems to want to use you Glad you didn't talk to him about your M. You owe that to your husband, and yourself.
Author Heather1 Posted September 5, 2010 Author Posted September 5, 2010 At least he's "honest" (in a I can't ever call him on it when my life is in ruins & he's A ok kind of way, cuz ya know, he did tell me). It felt like a set up...but who knows? Not like things are great w/ my H (obviously) but things can't be great with his M either? I don't know, I don't ask. And not like I don't want recipricol FWB either. But really, I'm tired of this & this new twist seems to be total isolation for me, instead of us both catching moments when we can. I'm not going to tell him about the no sex, I'm totally busy for the next few months anyway, so let him think what he wants. I am going to distance myself again. He wanted to discuss it more & I said I'm ok, don't worry about it for another minute. Really what I meant was point taken, you'll never touch me again.
GreenEyedLady Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 Why do you continue to talk/sleep with this man? He has done a total number on your self-esteem. He has made it clear NUMEROUS times that he will have sex with you when he feels like it when it is convenient for him and then will not talk to you at all for LONG periods of time. I think you need to talk to someone who can help you determine why you will take scraps from this man. And what about your M? Your H would be devastated to know that you are betraying him and for a man who DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU AT ALL. You are the only one who can change your situation. All your talk about NC and LC is completely forgotten when he so much as gives you a glance. He's not worth all the grief. Until you decide that you are worth more than an afternoon once a year, this will continue and your soul will remain battered. GEL
Author Heather1 Posted September 5, 2010 Author Posted September 5, 2010 I'm no victim either. I actually remember telling him I'm taking everything off the table. The NC has always been me, except the first time. But I totally agree that the few times of sex a year isn't worth it, & that's stopping.
Pink_orchid Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 Hey Heather I was wondering how you were doing, as I was just reading my original first post and you kindly were one of those who responded. I don't like the sound of this man and think you are going off him too (not surprising). I hope you are getting out and about and giving yourself chance to meet lots of nice new available men... I know, it's difficult to move on when you're hung up on one guy, but really you can do better, he is selfish and cheeky apart from anything else don't you think. Go girl.
Ellin Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 He wants to continue to bang you without having to deal with A) leaving his wife, and B) you being married. He's a cake-eater who also seems very narcissistic by telling you what to do with your life WHILE cheating on his wife at the same time. Sounds like a win-win for him and a lose-lose for you. Best of luck. Maybe by saying narcissistic you meant selfish and not a person with narcissistic personality disorder, because a person with NPD would be unlikely to behave in the way described.
Ellin Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 I don't like the sound of this man and think you are going off him too (not surprising). I hope you are getting out and about and giving yourself chance to meet lots of nice new available men... I know, it's difficult to move on when you're hung up on one guy, but really you can do better, he is selfish and cheeky apart from anything else don't you think. Go girl. I was going to write the same thing, so I'll just say I completely agree with Pink Orchid. Good luck to you, Heather. You don't sound like you're really hooked on this man, are you? Hope you can move on from him to something much better (if you're unhappy in your M) and that it will be a smooth transition.
YellowShark Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 Maybe by saying narcissistic you meant selfish and not a person with narcissistic personality disorder, because a person with NPD would be unlikely to behave in the way described. I don't think he's technically NPD but I do think he's a narcissist. Generally narcissists ARE very selfish... and this guy seems to want Heather1 to divorce WHILE he gets to have sex with her AND stay married - (protecting his ego.) But then again, I really don't know the guy except from what Heater1 wrote.
Ellin Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 I don't think he's technically NPD but I do think he's a narcissist. Generally narcissists ARE very selfish... and this guy seems to want Heather1 to divorce WHILE he gets to have sex with her AND stay married - (protecting his ego.) But then again, I really don't know the guy except from what Heater1 wrote. Well, technically being a narcissist is the same as having NPD, it's not the same thing as being selfish, although sometimes people use those words as synonyms. A narcissts would be nowhere near so open to admit he was never leaving his W and so straightforward, a narcissist would create a whole load of drama, game playing and uncertainty around that situation, and he would not just tell the lady that she'd be better off without the H (but with someone else, what you seem to have overlooked), he'd try to manipulate her and create difficult emotions within her until she started questioning her own actions, decisions and sanity. What she describes seems much simpler, a regular selfish guy who doesn't have much concern for others and is not even ashamed of it, perhaps a tiny bit on antisocial side, if you want to attribute some label to him.
GreenEyedLady Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 Well, technically being a narcissist is the same as having NPD, it's not the same thing as being selfish, although sometimes people use those words as synonyms. A narcissts would be nowhere near so open to admit he was never leaving his W and so straightforward, a narcissist would create a whole load of drama, game playing and uncertainty around that situation, and he would not just tell the lady that she'd be better off without the H (but with someone else, what you seem to have overlooked), he'd try to manipulate her and create difficult emotions within her until she started questioning her own actions, decisions and sanity. What she describes seems much simpler, a regular selfish guy who doesn't have much concern for others and is not even ashamed of it, perhaps a tiny bit on antisocial side, if you want to attribute some label to him. Read her other posts. I really am not into diagnosing people i have never met, but I think this guy is a perfect example of the disorder. He has no regard for anyone, including his W, as evidenced by his saying he loves her, but will sleep with someone on the side, whom he treats BADLY (understatement I believe). I remember Heather's story from before and I personally think the OP should RUN or even MOVE far away from this man. He is not good to her and she deserves so much better. It goes without saying that your M is unhealthy, but for this man to even be a substitute at any level makes me wonder what else you are dealing with, Heather. My thoughts are with you; this just seems a hellish situation to be in and I hope that you are able to get to a healthy place, honestly. ((HUGS)) GEL P.S. Sorry for jumping around from poster to poster but I have never learned how to quote multiple posts into a singular one.
bentnotbroken Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 Well, technically being a narcissist is the same as having NPD, it's not the same thing as being selfish, although sometimes people use those words as synonyms. A narcissts would be nowhere near so open to admit he was never leaving his W and so straightforward, a narcissist would create a whole load of drama, game playing and uncertainty around that situation, and he would not just tell the lady that she'd be better off without the H (but with someone else, what you seem to have overlooked), he'd try to manipulate her and create difficult emotions within her until she started questioning her own actions, decisions and sanity. What she describes seems much simpler, a regular selfish guy who doesn't have much concern for others and is not even ashamed of it, perhaps a tiny bit on antisocial side, if you want to attribute some label to him. Really? Met a lot of narcissist have you? Their are general tendencies to any disorder, then there are the anomalies. Not only did Mr. Messy tell his OW that he was better suited for her, he even wrote to her that he would be a better father to her children than their father. He wrote this after he admitted her BS was a great father. Doesn't exactly fit the pattern for what you described. And he has been diagnosed.
Author Heather1 Posted September 7, 2010 Author Posted September 7, 2010 Surprisingly, I'm OK with everything right now?? The things he says are hurtful in the future tense, but I never expected a future so I don't know why I'm upset by hearing this. I think it's much easier to be told now than the guy who claims to be ready to leave his w for the ow & has no intentions of doing so. This is?? well, an A & nothing else. But it's not what I want out of a future partner, if I do get D & decide to be with someone else. If I get a D, it will be because of my H & I & not because I think I have a shot at OM. He's made it clear I don't, and I think that's fair. I'm no romantic & don't believe in soulmates, etc. I would, however, like to be wildly attracted to someone & have a companion, but I don't think I'd ever remarry. I'm just not attracted to my H AT ALL....but he wants to stay M. He thinks by doing all this stuff & looking like the good guy that it makes up for his weight gain. I'd rather have him let me do everything & at least try to lose some weight. I can't stand it when he touches me. So at least OM has shown me that I actually like sex. With my H, I could do without it completely. As for NPD, my Dad is NPD. Although I think OM likes being center of attention, etc., I do think he feels true guilt. My Dad never did, he was entitled to cheat & never hid it from my Mom (divorced forever). My Mom is a narcissist, but not NPD. NPD, in my view, is kind of like dealing w/ a sociopath. I don't think that's OM. I've had my foot out the door for a long time, but my H seems to be happy & he knows about this...to some extent. He wants to stay M no matter what, I don't know what to do. OM doesn't know my H knows, because I've tried to keep our M's private.
awkward Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 You know where you stand with MM and you've decided that you are worth more than he is offering. IMO you are moving in the right direction. I know you've had a hard time letting go of this relationship but maybe you are ready now. Try to go NC for real this time. Try not to think about it as being NC until he contacts you again. It is NC by your choice (You are rejecting him!) and if he contacts you, you do nothing. Process the ending of this affair and realize it's really over. That will be the quickest way to the other side of this mess. Perhaps soon you'll be ready to face the dilemma of what to do with your marriage. This affair has consumed you for the last few years. Did you find your husband attractive before the affair?
Ellin Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 Really? Met a lot of narcissist have you? Their are general tendencies to any disorder, then there are the anomalies. Not only did Mr. Messy tell his OW that he was better suited for her, he even wrote to her that he would be a better father to her children than their father. He wrote this after he admitted her BS was a great father. Doesn't exactly fit the pattern for what you described. And he has been diagnosed. Yes, I have met more than a fair share of Ns in my life, and I wish I hadn't. Don't understand how whatever your xH wrote to his OW contradicts my description.
Ellin Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 Read her other posts. I really am not into diagnosing people i have never met, but I think this guy is a perfect example of the disorder. He has no regard for anyone, including his W, as evidenced by his saying he loves her, but will sleep with someone on the side, whom he treats BADLY (understatement I believe). I remember Heather's story from before and I personally think the OP should RUN or even MOVE far away from this man. He is not good to her and she deserves so much better. It goes without saying that your M is unhealthy, but for this man to even be a substitute at any level makes me wonder what else you are dealing with, Heather. My thoughts are with you; this just seems a hellish situation to be in and I hope that you are able to get to a healthy place, honestly. ((HUGS)) GEL P.S. Sorry for jumping around from poster to poster but I have never learned how to quote multiple posts into a singular one. I haven't read her other posts, just want to point out that there is quite a few types of personality disorders belonging to different categories and there are several subtypes of psychopathy, so it is not enough to say - like Yellow Shark did - that someone has NPD because he's acting in a very selfish manner.
2sunny Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 I haven't read her other posts, just want to point out that there is quite a few types of personality disorders belonging to different categories and there are several subtypes of psychopathy, so it is not enough to say - like Yellow Shark did - that someone has NPD because he's acting in a very selfish manner. since none of us have met him - can we quit trying to diagnose a complete stranger whom we know very little details about his actions much less his thoughts?
Ellin Posted September 7, 2010 Posted September 7, 2010 since none of us have met him - can we quit trying to diagnose a complete stranger whom we know very little details about his actions much less his thoughts? Yes, please.
Author Heather1 Posted September 8, 2010 Author Posted September 8, 2010 I actually don't think he's a bad guy, mostly because I'm doing the same thing he is I'm not quick to judge him. People who have known him longer than I have really like him & don't have a bad word to say about him. It's just how A's go, and I don't think there's victims. No, haven't been attracted to my H for a long time. My youngest son is having a hard time as a freshman in HS now, and has a disability. He's crying every night, it's awful. This is not a time for me to make a decision to blow his world apart with a D. As for NC, I'm ok for now w/ how things are. No drama, just kind of giving you all an update & I'm actually OK. Wondered if anyone else experienced this though, where the OM started being defensive about a future when you hadn't even been going there in the first place.
bentnotbroken Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 I actually don't think he's a bad guy, mostly because I'm doing the same thing he is I'm not quick to judge him. People who have known him longer than I have really like him & don't have a bad word to say about him. It's just how A's go, and I don't think there's victims. No, haven't been attracted to my H for a long time. My youngest son is having a hard time as a freshman in HS now, and has a disability. He's crying every night, it's awful. This is not a time for me to make a decision to blow his world apart with a D. As for NC, I'm ok for now w/ how things are. No drama, just kind of giving you all an update & I'm actually OK. Wondered if anyone else experienced this though, where the OM started being defensive about a future when you hadn't even been going there in the first place. Do they know he lacks integrity in his personal life? Do they know what he does to his family? You say the like him, do they respect him? And why are there no victims in your eyes?
U2RockZz Posted September 8, 2010 Posted September 8, 2010 then why put up a show for your H or waste his time,money...........get a D......you seem to be pursuing your As like an education.....he is as willing as you are.....i don't think pointing fingers would do any good.....it seems like ,you do not want to leave him even if he wants to leave you with the wife like you at home it doesn't really surprise me that your H turned out to be damn abusive or even a psycho.......why not end your oprah once for all.....
Author Heather1 Posted September 8, 2010 Author Posted September 8, 2010 I'm just saying he & I are no victims of eachother. His friends seem to want him with me, not that they know the extent of it, just that they know his W. As for the last statement, I think you come on under different names cuz you keep getting booted for your sexist comments (his money) & jump to these conclusions knowing nothing & trying to put people in their place for being human. Look at your own life, I'm sure it's miserable.
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