Having an Affair vrs. Telling of it?

[Spark1111]

I agree with you. There are no "excuses" - Yes there are reasons & many would like to say that we're just coming up with excuses. Is it a selfish decision? Yep!

In my situation - It just is what it is. I can't be so different than most here that have had affairs. Same as them, I made the decision to deal with my circumstances by finding someone else that would listen to me. Someone else that had the same troubles in his marriage that we did. (My AP was also married) For me it made what had been a long & gruling 7 or so years bearable.

 

Back to the original 'question/discussion' I am still of the belief that not telling your spouse is an individuals decision to make based on their individual circumstances.

 

Some here have said that "If you don't tell your spouse will eventually find out" I disagree with this. Maybe they will - But there is always the Maybe they won't. It isn't hands down 100% they WILL. One of my dearest friends had an affair 20 some odd years ago. She's still married, her husband still does not know.

 

I understand the opposing camp's position. I really do.

 

But I still find it self serving, and maybe more importantly, it denies both parties the opportunity to take stock, make informed decisions together, and to either collectively improve the state of the marriage or to walk away from it.

 

I mean, what sort of marriage does every undisclosed affairee return to?

 

One that really wasn't that bad to begin with?

 

One that is just barely tolerable?

 

One that never made you that happy to begin with?

 

Or one that seemingly righted itself over time, but no one is sure why that happened?

 

So, in all fairness, what does that mean for the spouse who did not/would not have an affair to have their unmet needs met in a relationship that is just so-so?

 

I still don't get it.

[YellowShark]

I am trying to understand your predicament so please allow me to ask a few questions. I am not judging, only seeking enlightenment to see both sides of the coin.

 

I made the decision to deal with my circumstances by finding someone else that would listen to me.

 

So what I hear is your spouse does not listen to you. But your AP does. So why does your spouse not hear what your AP does?

 

Someone else that had the same troubles in his marriage that we did. (My AP was also married) For me it made what had been a long & gruling 7 or so years bearable.

 

If it is so "long & grueling," why haven't you left the marriage? Certainly your life would be far better off if you could: A) be with someone who listens to your needs and fulfils them, RATHER than B) being with someone who doesn't listen to your needs while you lead a double secret-life in an affair.

 

To me the secret affair is so much wasted energy that could be invested into a healthy relationship.

 

One of my dearest friends had an affair 20 some odd years ago. She's still married, her husband still does not know.

 

Yet you know - and for me it's sad that the person closest to your dearest friend - her husband - doesn't know he was betrayed and lied to.

[bentnotbroken]

I get so tired of the punk moves.

[Spark1111]

I get so tired of the punk moves.

 

You make me laugh, whether you intend to or not!

 

And here is my bottom line:

 

I do NOT WANT to be with anyone who DOES NOT WANT ME!

 

SO call it ego, call it confidence, but why would I want to be with anyone who does not think I am the best thing since sliced bread?

 

And if you are in such a funk as to step outside our relationship, to need someone else, just tell me!

 

Because I would never want to be anyone's default choice, ever!

 

I deserve more.

 

And taking all morality out of the equation, this, more than any other reason, is why I am convinced I would never be an OW.

 

Way too full of myself and what I have to offer a respectful partner!

[YellowShark]

But I still find it self serving, and maybe more importantly, it denies both parties the opportunity to take stock, make informed decisions together, and to either collectively improve the state of the marriage or to walk away from it.

 

That is my feeling. If I am going to invest my heart and soul into a life-long relationship I wouldn't want potential landmines that I could step on unknowingly. I would want to enjoy the trust of my partner, rather than have her/him keep relationship-ending secrets from me. I've come to this philosophy from personal experience.

 

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around living in a world where my partner could lead a double life/affair which would ultimately erode the foundation/health of my relationship.

[silktricks]

Like Turnstone, I still don't get it.

 

And I did not want to t/j.

 

You meet someone, feel attracted to each other, and begin to fuel that attraction in a million little ways: texts, sexts, emails, long-furtive looks, chance encounters that have nothing to do with chance.

 

You start to plan, put forth effort, obsess, when, where, how to meet in SECRET, how to have sex in SECRET, when to make the next call in SECRET without your spouse knowing.

 

You live the excitement and fantasy life of conducting an affair in SECRET. Or a ONS, or several ONS, in secret.

 

But now the affair has ended, or you realize the errors of your ways, and want to rebuild your marriage without your spouse knowing of your extra-curricular activities, because NOW you are reformed .

 

And TELLING them may hurt them, and you do not want to hurt them NOW that you have seen the light, or your AP has dumped you, whichever comes first.

 

TELLING your spouse could seriously impede your chances of NOW wanting to work on YOUR marriage.

 

You have not given them a thought with the first, sext, text, flirt, or unzip. They were not even a blip on your emotional radar as you plotted and planned to meet, see, speak with your AP.

 

Maybe you had to talk yourself OUT OF your spouse's love and devotion to you to have the affair. Maybe you had to talk yourself INTO what a desolate place your marriage was and how your spouse was not meeting YOUR needs to justify having the affair.

 

But now? NOW you have decided to be a good girl or boy and re-commit to that marriage you threw over in one unzip, and TELLING your spouse would only hurt them.

 

Give me a break! If this isn't the most self-serving, self-protective act ever, I don't know what is!

 

Thoughts?

 

What a great post, Spark. As usual you've really nailed the description.

 

As you know, I'm a bit of a flip-flopper in the tell, don't tell department. Most of the time I'm 100% with you. Tell, Tell, Tell!!! The BS has the right to make her/his own decisions about what has happened. They have the right to not be given the mushroom treatment. (Kept in the dark and given sh*t)

 

Sometimes, though, there is this little part of me that goes "nooooooo.....!!!!" Don't tell, don't make her/him feel that pain. Reform and mend your ways. Fix things your OWN self, don't make your problem her/his problem!!!!

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately???? ) that part of me really doesn't think that the problems in the marriage that led to the cheating can get fixed without telling. So.... my thoughts (at least at this moment ) are pretty much what you've outlined. Not telling for the "good" of the betrayed spouse is usually really not telling for the good of the wayward spouse. They are afraid that the BS will leave. That works best for the wayward spouse - not so good for the betrayed one.

[confusedinkansas]

So what I hear is your spouse does not listen to you. But your AP does. So why does your spouse not hear what your AP does?

Sorry if this is a TJ -

Answering your questions.

AP (past tense/affair has been over for going on about 3 years now) He listened & heard me (there's a difference) He also understood troublesome marriages. His was also in a state of termoil. (His wife ended up leaving him for her other man) However, we were both of the understanding that we were family people (please don't anyone argue that if we were family people we wouldn't have had the affair in the first place) We were not going to leave our kids or spouses. Even though the 4 kids between us were pretty much grown.

 

If it is so "long & grueling," why haven't you left the marriage? Certainly your life would be far better off if you could: A) be with someone who listens to your needs and fulfils them, RATHER than B) being with someone who doesn't listen to your needs while you lead a double secret-life in an affair.

Because the way we were both raised - once you were married, you were married forever. Which I know is the way it's "supposed" to be. We were also raising our 2 kids at the time. Not going into much detail about my specific scenario but my husband was, at that time, battling some serious demons & wasn't "there." Wasn't part of the marriage. He couldn't see that he'd checked out. No matter how many times I tried to have a civil conversation with him. Divorce was not an option at that time.

 

To me the secret affair is so much wasted energy that could be invested into a healthy relationship.

I agree with this 100% ~ As they say, hind site is 20/20

[BeagleGal]

Oh boy, YellowShark, you and I are very much on the same page.

I couldnt have said any of this better myself.

 

It sickens me at times to think that the times my exSO was out with this other woman, he was telling me he was at a work function (where they met, well one of the functions) and I was at home looking after his son. He'll text me through the night telling me he's thinking of me, misses me and loves me. Then comes home, acts so happy to see me, we spend some time together, make love and all is good. Sick.

 

That is my feeling. If I am going to invest my heart and soul into a life-long relationship I wouldn't want potential landmines that I could step on unknowingly. I would want to enjoy the trust of my partner, rather than have her/him keep relationship-ending secrets from me. I've come to this philosophy from personal experience.

 

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around living in a world where my partner could lead a double life/affair which would ultimately erode the foundation/health of my relationship.

Edited September 2, 2010 by BeagleGal

[Spark1111]

What a great post, Spark. As usual you've really nailed the description.

 

As you know, I'm a bit of a flip-flopper in the tell, don't tell department. Most of the time I'm 100% with you. Tell, Tell, Tell!!! The BS has the right to make her/his own decisions about what has happened. They have the right to not be given the mushroom treatment. (Kept in the dark and given sh*t)

 

Sometimes, though, there is this little part of me that goes "nooooooo.....!!!!" Don't tell, don't make her/him feel that pain. Reform and mend your ways. Fix things your OWN self, don't make your problem her/his problem!!!!

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately???? ) that part of me really doesn't think that the problems in the marriage that led to the cheating can get fixed without telling. So.... my thoughts (at least at this moment ) are pretty much what you've outlined. Not telling for the "good" of the betrayed spouse is usually really not telling for the good of the wayward spouse. They are afraid that the BS will leave. That works best for the wayward spouse - not so good for the betrayed one.

 

You know, one of the first, second and third things my fWS said on DDAY was

 

1) It just happened. (I thought the counselor would fall out of his chair.)

 

2.) I thought I could control it.:rolleyes:

 

3.) Please don't tell anyone. (Fat chance, this is Spark afterall)

 

And I said: Just tell me the truth.

 

That became an arduous process over months, no years, needless to say.

 

I felt like Jack Nicholson in a "A Few Good Men," banging the table and shouting, "Me! Me! I can't handle the truth? oh, NOOOOOOOOO. It's you, bud! YOU can't handle the truth!

 

And that is why he kept minimizing to spare my feelings.

 

Fat chance: It was to spare his own.

[Spark1111]

Oh boy, YellowShark, you and I are very much on the same page.

I couldnt have said any of this better myself.

 

It sickens me at times to think that the times my exSO was out with this other woman, he was telling me he was at a work function (where they met, well one of the functions) and I was at home looking after his son. He'll text me through the night telling me he's thinking of me, misses me and loves me. Then comes home, acts so happy to see me, we spend some time together, make love and all is good. Sick.

 

And this goes to the point that the WS claims they weren't getting enough, when in fact they were not giving enough.

 

If my fWS had put a quarter of the effort in us, as he did plotting and planning and talking and texting his AP, we BOTH would have been over the moon.

 

Unfortunately, the dynamic is that devil horns had to be slowly affixed to the top of my head, so the he could justify the affair and place the halo on her's.

 

And it seems, she was more than willing to help him do that.

 

Selfish, selfish, selfish.

[YellowShark]

He listened & heard me (there's a difference) He also understood troublesome marriages. His was also in a state of termoil. (His wife ended up leaving him for her other man)

 

So if I read correctly he was having an affair, and his wife was ALSO having an affair. I feel so sorry for them that they could not work out their issues together.

 

Because the way we were both raised - once you were married, you were married forever. Which I know is the way it's "supposed" to be.

 

My parents were the same. But they ended up divorcing anyways because the status quo became to intolerable.

 

Not going into much detail about my specific scenario but my husband was, at that time, battling some serious demons & wasn't "there." Wasn't part of the marriage. He couldn't see that he'd checked out. No matter how many times I tried to have a civil conversation with him. Divorce was not an option at that time.

 

I sense that substance abuse was involved, and living with someone who has a substance abuse problem is a huge burden. I know because I had a partner once who was an alcoholic and it's absolutely horrible. Even after AA and counseling I ended up leaving because I couldn't force her to change until she decided to change. She needed to hit rock bottom, and if I had stayed I was only enabling her... which was destroying both of us.

 

I agree with this 100% ~ As they say, hind site is 20/20

 

It sure is. Now that I am a victim of infidelity I know how much energy it takes to keep an affair going. And the affair STOLE emotion/passion that should have been reserved for my relationship. That is why I am so open to trying to keep my next relationship healthy.

[YellowShark]

If my fWS had put a quarter of the effort in us, as he did plotting and planning and talking and texting his AP, we BOTH would have been over the moon.

 

YES! Imagine if all that emotion/passion was directed AT YOU instead of the AP how happy you would have been. Instead the the emotion/passion that was supposed to reserved for the relationship was removed from it and directed at the AP.

 

Unfortunately, the dynamic is that devil horns had to be slowly affixed to the top of my head, so the he could justify the affair and place the halo on her's.

 

And it seems, she was more than willing to help him do that.

 

That is what happens.

 

Now there definitely are cases where the BS is a total a**hole/b*tch and the WS is seeking comfort elsewhere, I have no problem admitting that.

 

But more often than not the dynamic is the BS is not a bad person at all, so to defend what is really indefensible - (the affair) - the BS is often demonized by the WS and the AP.

[BeagleGal]

Thank you! I totally agree with all points below.

 

And just like your H's AP, my exSO's AP was the same way. Knew I was at home waiting for my man to come home, knowing I had no clue what was going on behind my back and she had no problem helping him decieve me and most likely painting a pretty picture to him about what their life would be like together if he left me to be with her. Of course having said that, my ex is 100% to blame but it takes 2 to f*ck around so she's not without blame either...

 

And months ago when I asked him for the last time for the truth (after we split) he tells me "truth is life was much less complicated before". Augh.

 

I think all of us have a bit of selfishness in us, however, this kind of selfishness my exSO has is so malignant. It boggles my mind. Just like you said, had they invested that extra time to us and our relationship instead of plotting and cheating, imagine how much more happier life would have been.

 

I've said this since I found out about all the sh*t my ex did: I've been bamboozled.

 

 

 

And this goes to the point that the WS claims they weren't getting enough, when in fact they were not giving enough.

 

If my fWS had put a quarter of the effort in us, as he did plotting and planning and talking and texting his AP, we BOTH would have been over the moon.

 

Unfortunately, the dynamic is that devil horns had to be slowly affixed to the top of my head, so the he could justify the affair and place the halo on her's.

 

And it seems, she was more than willing to help him do that.

 

Selfish, selfish, selfish.

Edited September 2, 2010 by BeagleGal

[confusedinkansas]

I sense that substance abuse was involved, and living with someone who has a substance abuse problem is a huge burden. I know because I had a partner once who was an alcoholic and it's absolutely horrible. Even after AA and counseling I ended up leaving because I couldn't force her to change until she decided to change. She needed to hit rock bottom, and if I had stayed I was only enabling her... which was destroying both of us.

 

Yep - but the UpSide to my situation - He did hit rock bottem during our separation. He did realize what the heck was going on & he is much better now......WE are much better. Happy & content. Moving on with our lives - TOGETHER! Even though it was about a 10 year process (SAD) we still managed to come back to each other.

Even though the second go round with my AP (after a year of limited contact) I have chosen to keep silent about. There is no need to tell. Hubby knows everything else. He knows of the AP's multiple attempts to contact me since my initiating NC. He knows that the AP has tried on Facebook to contact me. We have both blocked him from viewing our pages.

 

And the affair STOLE emotion/passion that should have been reserved for my relationship

I wish that those that were contemplating an affair would read this. Yes, there are many that plot for months & years to have an affair. I wish they knew how much it sucks the life out of you.

[ladydesigner]

[quote name=confusedinkansas

I wish that those that were contemplating an affair would read this. Yes, there are many that plot for months & years to have an affair. I wish they knew how much it sucks the life out of you.

 

God isn't that the truth. The part that makes me the sickest is that it sucked energy that I should have spent on my kids too. :sick: I hate myself for that. Thank god my A was short lived. Never again. I wish I would have visited LS before foolishly entering my revenge A. I was so hell bent on getting back at my H.

[Mimolicious]

Mimo.....if the WS leaves for the OW/OM, generally those limerance hormones will now wear off in one to two years of steady co-habitation.

 

And guess what?

 

What they thought was a once-in-a-lifetime soulmate experience, is now the same as the marriage they left. Same old, same old....with conflict avoidance, poor self-esteem, and rotten communication skills.

 

Bottom line: Wherever you go, there you are......and no ONE person can make you happy unless you make you happy or at least, learn what internal void needs external validation all the time.

 

And if you haven't fixed what is broken within through IC, you will NEVER be happy in a long term relationship. You will NEVER know HOW to do long term relationships succesfully.

 

And in IC, most confused and/or repentent fWS or serial cheaters learn this:

 

It was NEVER about not getting enough from the marriage. It was NOT GIVING ENOUGH to the marriage.

 

And why the cheater thought something, or someone new could fix them, is where the therapy begins.....or not.

 

Bolded part- This couldn't be more true. This is why I am alone BY CHOICE!

 

My mother always says "Every relationship turns into the same if nothing in you has changed".

 

Yes, as far as I know my xH and his OW are not exactly living fairytale and loaded with the "sparks" he told me he had and why he was leaving. Because he had "Sparks" wit her. OH ISH! I just realized that's your name. LOL! hehehe!

 

He's told our friends "WTF did I do?! I had a saint for a W and now I am f'ed". OH WELL!

 

I did take for me to realize that I was getting way far less of what I was putting in. I was gettin 10%. It took a lot of arm twisting to get him to the legal procedures. He didn't want to sign for the life of him because he had "hopes". Right. I loved him, I still do and I would have given my life to be able to fix our marriage. I live in the REAL WORLD and regardless of what we had and what we had accomplished and our kids. It is about him never being able to give me what matters to me today. I am not 17 anymore, so what I didn't see then I see now. I actually thank him for getting me ready to know what I want and what I deserve.

 

I thought I found him in my childhood love and I did! yes someone 1500 miles away holds my heart. Different people different vices. "LOVE" and "MAGIC" are not the only thing that makes my world go round. I have kids to keep safe and not taken for ransom. LOL! So scratch that one off too! lol!

 

Ok, I'm going over to Match.com now. LMAO! JK!

[Mimolicious]

You make me laugh, whether you intend to or not!

 

And here is my bottom line:

 

I do NOT WANT to be with anyone who DOES NOT WANT ME!

 

SO call it ego, call it confidence, but why would I want to be with anyone who does not think I am the best thing since sliced bread?

 

And if you are in such a funk as to step outside our relationship, to need someone else, just tell me!

 

Because I would never want to be anyone's default choice, ever!

 

I deserve more.

 

And taking all morality out of the equation, this, more than any other reason, is why I am convinced I would never be an OW.

 

Way too full of myself and what I have to offer a respectful partner!

 

Were we separated (not at birth) but after my M ended? lmao!

 

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be with anyone didn't think I was the ONLY hot tamale on earth and most fabulous gal in the universe. LOL!

 

Live and learn... I know what I want. My bar is not that high. I just want someone that can be honest, has interest in what roams around my mind, supports my goals and stands by my failures, tolerates all the bling and pink and wants to go with me to Target, yet look me in the eyes and says "I adore you and you are amazing". LOL!

 

FML! typing all of that it's going to make me dial a long distance number.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Mimolicious

[turnstone]

As you know, I'm a bit of a flip-flopper in the tell, don't tell department. Most of the time I'm 100% with you. Tell, Tell, Tell!!! The BS has the right to make her/his own decisions about what has happened. They have the right to not be given the mushroom treatment. (Kept in the dark and given sh*t)

 

Sometimes, though, there is this little part of me that goes "nooooooo.....!!!!" Don't tell, don't make her/him feel that pain. Reform and mend your ways. Fix things your OWN self, don't make your problem her/his problem!!!!

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately???? ) that part of me really doesn't think that the problems in the marriage that led to the cheating can get fixed without telling. So.... my thoughts (at least at this moment ) are pretty much what you've outlined. Not telling for the "good" of the betrayed spouse is usually really not telling for the good of the wayward spouse. They are afraid that the BS will leave. That works best for the wayward spouse - not so good for the betrayed one.

 

Yes, absolutely. I also think that no matter how hard the WS wants and tries to 'mend their ways', its impossible to have a truly healthy relationship without full disclosure. And I don't mean healthy for one party, I mean for both.

[bohogirl]

Possibly a T/J.

 

The BS of a LT married/serial cheater generally knows when the affair is going well, when it isn't and when it's over without having to ask the WS anything.

 

Turning a blind eye works for some people. Some BS even receive gifts for being compliant. Forcing the ugly truth on a BS who prefers their carefully constructed reality to the truth can be embarassing. Then the BS has to do something to prove they are not a doormat.

 

Why should a WS confess to their spouse when the cheating is known (whether proof/gut instinct) and part of the relationship dynamic?

[confusedinkansas]

Why should a WS confess to their spouse when the cheating is known (whether proof/gut instinct) and part of the relationship dynamic?

 

Excellent Question - I hope someone has an answer.

This is exactly what I've always wondered.

[Distant78]

Excellent Question - I hope someone has an answer.

This is exactly what I've always wondered.

 

Of course you love that question.

[bentnotbroken]

Possibly a T/J.

 

The BS of a LT married/serial cheater generally knows when the affair is going well, when it isn't and when it's over without having to ask the WS anything.

 

Turning a blind eye works for some people. Some BS even receive gifts for being compliant. Forcing the ugly truth on a BS who prefers their carefully constructed reality to the truth can be embarassing. Then the BS has to do something to prove they are not a doormat.

 

Why should a WS confess to their spouse when the cheating is known (whether proof/gut instinct) and part of the relationship dynamic?

 

 

:eek:Where is you proof to back that up? I didn't' know anything. When I asked I was lied to. I believed him. I am not the jealous type. He had female friends, I have male friends. There was no reason to suspect anything. He traveled a great deal for business and I was a SAHM. How was I supposed to know he was screwing people in other cities? My crystal ball perhaps? Since I am not psychic what would you have suggested to those of us who were trusting enough to believe the person we married?

[confusedinkansas]

Of course you love that question.

 

& you don't have an answer I see........

Hey Now......Let's not start on me because of my past ~

I just happen to think it's a good question.

 

As I have mentioned before, I have 2 friends in particular that are very much aware that their husbands have or are cheated/ing on them.

They DO NOT intend to say one word about it. (they believe that their husbands already know - that they know) These women don't want to rock the boat. What's the point? They have a good life. They love their husbands & know that he won't leave. Their husbands have very good paying jobs, they can go shopping, do whatever they please. (These two women don't even know each other, maybe I should introduce them)

I also believe that my husband is aware of the year with my OM that I have not shared with him. He's not sayin' nuttin either!

 

That's.......Why I think it's an excellent question

The OP has mentioned his wife MAY know about the affair (s)

[bohogirl]

:eek:Where is you proof to back that up? I didn't' know anything. When I asked I was lied to. I believed him. I am not the jealous type. He had female friends, I have male friends. There was no reason to suspect anything. He traveled a great deal for business and I was a SAHM. How was I supposed to know he was screwing people in other cities? My crystal ball perhaps? Since I am not psychic what would you have suggested to those of us who were trusting enough to believe the person we married?

 

 

My post wasn't directed at anyone directly. I don't operate in that way. I actually respect and take on board a lot of what you have to say.

 

I can only speak from my experiences. I have known women that knew their husbands were cheating on them but never uttered a word until an affair was publicly outed. Then a grand gesture would be made e.g. throwing the husband out for a while. The BS would then reconcile with WS after a suitably impressive penance has been made e.g. jewellery, a car or even a house extension. The WS would then sinply pick up where he left off.

 

The riling of the BS rather than the affair is the stressor to the relationship.

 

I am not categorically stating this dynamic applies to all relationships but it does exist in my circle. Fidelity is not a deal breaker - public humiliation is.

[Distant78]

& you don't have an answer I see........

Hey Now......Let's not start on me because of my past ~

I just happen to think it's a good question.

 

Oh I have the answer and so do you. If your past isn't the way it is now, most likely you wouldn't even like that question.:lmao:

 

As I have mentioned before, I have 2 friends in particular that are very much aware that their husbands have or are cheated/ing on them.

 

So?

 

They DO NOT intend to say one word about it. (they believe that their husbands already know - that they know) These women don't want to rock the boat.

 

Of course they don't want to rock the boat. They are in denial and/or cheating themselves.

 

 

What's the point?

They have a good life. They love their husbands & know that he won't leave. Their husbands have very good paying jobs, they can go shopping, do whatever they please.

 

So money is now the answer to infidelity these days huh?

 

(These two women don't even know each other, maybe I should introduce them)

 

For what? So that they can discuss how many women their husbands sleep with?

 

I also believe that my husband is aware of the year with my OM that I have not shared with him. He's not sayin' nuttin either!

 

Of course he isn't. He's in denial and you know it, and that's why you keep him as your pet. All the more reason to cheat on him and feel justified eh?

 

That's.......Why I think it's an excellent question

The OP has mentioned his wife MAY know about the affair (s)

 

Like I said, no wonder why you love that question.