What am I missing re: not disclosing the affair?

[turnstone]

I have come to the conclusion that my fears about MM being nothing but self-serving and smug are absolutely correct. I have also come to the conclusion that without full disclosure no MM is going to find the motivation to make their marriage work.

 

But maybe I'm wrong, what is it about MM thinking they can stop the affair and reconnect with their wife without a) being sorry for having the affair and b) disclosing it to his wife? What am I missing here?

[NoIDidn't]

So long as the W doesn't know, they think they can keep it under wraps and just stop doing the "bad thing" they were doing and all will return to normal.

 

Problem is, the way things were before the A likely contributed to the A and aren't going change unless they practice some actual honesty.

 

Coming back to the marriage after an affair without a d-day, while not truly addressing the issues and the cheating, is just another form of gaslighting. When discovered, the BS still feels cheated and duped - and worse - completely deceived (regardless of how "happy" the marriage may have become).

 

One thing is for certain, at least both sides of the A can see that this type of MM was lying to both - not just to one or the other. This type (actually quite common type) leaves a trail of unhappy women (Ws and OWs) because they haven't a clue of how to be reciprocal in a R - and they don't care to learn. They would rather the bandaid of a new R, even when still in one, than to actually confront the issues within themselves.

[Spark1111]

I agree NID.

 

True emotional intimacy is the absence of secrets kept from a SO!

 

Why do people not get this?

 

So you could probably return from an illicit affair and have a pretty good or good enough relationship with your spouse.

 

But nothing will have truly changed: not yourself or your marital relationship, or the problems inherent in each. Which makes repeating the behavior very likely in the future, IMHO.

 

So, as long as you keep your secrets, you will NEVER have true intimacy.

 

You might have spared your spouse or mosre likely, yourself the pain of knowing your betrayal(s), but you denied both of you the right to fix the relationship.

 

Smug and self-serving, indeed!

[turnstone]

Right, right, my thoughts exactly.

 

Gaslighting is right, I didn't see it that way, but its exactly what's going on. I'm thinking it not only allows them to fool themselves that all will return to how it once was as you say NID, but as you imply Spark, it leaves the door open for restarting the affair, whether that's a conscious decision or not.

 

I can't conceive why on earth anyone would be happy to live like this. How messed up are these people?

[bentnotbroken]

Damn right it is gaslighting. Especially when a BS asks out right and are lied to or told they are imagining things. Or that all too familiar..."it's nothing"

[Spark1111]

Or, I'm tired.

 

Work is just too stressful now!

 

Nothing is the matter! Why do you keep asking me?

 

Of course I was working late. I TOLD you I had to! Don't you listen to me?

 

Look, I couldn't pick up the phone when you called. I was on with Mr. Higher-up Muckety-Muck. What do you want now?

 

Oh yeah....

[YellowShark]

Damn right it is gaslighting. Especially when a BS asks out right and are lied to or told they are imagining things. Or that all too familiar..."it's nothing"

 

In my case my EX and the MM-with-the-pregnant-wife she is having the affair with have successfully gaslighted almost all of our social circle that "I made their affair all up." Eventhough I caught them red-handed in the act.

 

(My EX and I were together for 7 years, and I was good friends with MM-with-the-pregnant-wife. He lives across the street, I even helped him with his business, and my son cut his lawn. How sick is that?)

 

The whole affair is so incestuous and narcissistic that I bailed within four days with my son. No reason to even try to repair what should never have happened in the first place.

 

My reply to the people in the former social circle who believe my EX's and MM-with-the-pregnant-wife gaslighting is,

 

"So your position is that after seven years with my EX and 4 years as MM's good friend I just up and decided to frame them one night... Is that your position?"

 

Anyhow, I've learned that for some people gaslighting can be very powerful when the truth is hard to process.

[InceptorsRule]

In my case my EX and the MM-with-the-pregnant-wife she is having the affair with have successfully gaslighted almost all of our social circle that "I made their affair all up."

 

Actually most likely the social circle doesn't necessarily disbelieve you, they just don't want to overtly admit it.

 

Look probably at least half of those people if not a lot more have been involved as perpetrators or victims of infidelity themselves, based on statistics alone.

 

Anyone who's experienced it would know exactly what you're talking about.

[YellowShark]

Actually most likely the social circle doesn't necessarily disbelieve you, they just don't want to overtly admit it.

 

Look probably at least half of those people if not a lot more have been involved as perpetrators or victims of infidelity themselves, based on statistics alone.

 

Anyone who's experienced it would know exactly what you're talking about.

 

I hope you are right, but the fact that many of them still party and have BBQs at MM place with him, his wife, and my EX - as if nothing happened - leads me to conclude they either have zero empathy for me.. or no moral codes that they live by. Their actions speak louder to me than words.

[blizzard]

Would it be gaslightening when xMM only partially disclosed his affair?

 

I asked him if she knew everything about us. His reply..."uhhhhh no, that's why I ended things the way I did with you because I am trying to protect you. (me thrown under the bus with three sentences "I was wrong. Our relationship was inappropriate. Now I am going to do everything in my power to rebuild my marriage." He says she made him write it while looking over his shoulder) !?

 

He didn't tell her about the I love you's we exchanged and that our affair was physical. Nor did he say that he im'd me everyday and night for hours. Or that he had wanted a future with me. He said that we were merely iming buds that fell into a close, "innappropriate" relationship for nearly two years online. And that we met for lunch only 3 or 4 times. He said he told her this to protect me because she was screaming and threatening to ruin my life. He wanted to get our stories in line because my husband could have him subpoena in my divorce. That I stood alot to lose.

 

I have been 3 months NC. I often wonder how the "rebuilding" is going...because it seemingly got off to a great start . I've been told that he kept his other mistress that I didn't know about. And that he is lying to her too.

 

Don't want to sound harsh, but why don't bs get that they are LYING to them to save their own a**es...and why don't bs get that they have obviously LIED to the ow too? That they are LIARS!? What an insecure feeling to carry...

Edited September 1, 2010 by blizzard

[Spark1111]

I hope you are right, but the fact that many of them still party and have BBQs at MM place with him, his wife, and my EX - as if nothing happened - leads me to conclude they either have zero empathy for me.. or no moral codes that they live by. Their actions speak louder to me than words.

 

Or they have been gaslighted big time also!

 

Or, in their fears of it happening to them, have chosen NOT to believe it.

 

Denial is a beautiful tool for the unenlightened or the truly threatened.

 

It is just too messy socially to take a stand, confront the offending parties, or believe the truth sometimes.

 

I, too, lived this and am today, happily reconciled, but with less of the old friends in my social circle.

 

Truly, no great loss.

[Spark1111]

Would it be gaslightening when xMM only partially disclosed his affair?

 

I asked him if she knew everything about us. His reply..."uhhhhh no, that's why I ended things the way I did with you because I am trying to protect you. (me thrown under the bus with three sentences "I was wrong. Our relationship was inappropriate. Now I am going to do everything in my power to rebuild my marriage." He says she made him write it while looking over his shoulder) !?

 

He didn't tell her about the I love you's we exchanged and that our affair was physical. Nor did he say that he im'd me everyday and night for hours. Or that he had wanted a future with me. He said that we were merely iming buds that fell into a close, "innappropriate" relationship for nearly two years online. And that we met for lunch only 3 or 4 times. He said he told her this to protect me because she was screaming and threatening to ruin my life. He wanted to get our stories in line because my husband could have him subpoena in my divorce. That I stood alot to lose.

 

I have been 3 months NC. I often wonder how the "rebuilding" is going...because it seemingly got off to a great start . I've been told that he kept his other mistress that I didn't know about. And that he is lying to her too.

 

Don't want to sound harsh, but why don't bs get that they are LYING to them to save their own a**es...and why don't bs get that they have obviously LIED to the ow too? That they are LIARS!? What an insecure feeling to carry...

 

Some people NEED to believe the lies, Blizzard. That's true for AP, MP, BS.

 

Some people need safety, and the quickest return to the status quo is okay with them. It's just easier to accept the lies than to shine a spotlight on the mess.

 

Some people NEED to believe the marriage was miserable, or the affair wasn't all that.:p:p:p

 

Some, with courage, do not believe any of it.

[blizzard]

Some people NEED to believe the lies, Blizzard. That's true for AP, MP, BS.

 

Some people need safety, and the quickest return to the status quo is okay with them. It's just easier to accept the lies than to shine a spotlight on the mess.

 

Some people NEED to believe the marriage was miserable, or the affair wasn't all that.:p:p:p

 

Some, with courage, do not believe any of it.

 

very, very well said...

[turnstone]

My guess is that you are missing what it is like to be a coward.

 

Ha!

 

Partial truths are more powerful than outright lies, in my experience. They have more ability to make you believe you're the one in the wrong, that there's something broken within you. Its a long process to claw out of that.

 

I think doubting oneself is more damaging than doubting others. If you can't rely on yourself, who can you rely on? Drastic measures become attractive.

[blizzard]

Ha!

 

Partial truths are more powerful than outright lies, in my experience. They have more ability to make you believe you're the one in the wrong, that there's something broken within you. Its a long process to claw out of that.

 

I think doubting oneself is more damaging than doubting others. If you can't rely on yourself, who can you rely on? Drastic measures become attractive.

 

yes. it would be interesting to know how successful reconcilation/rebuilding a marriage would turn out when placed in that situation. it has to be a long road...

 

in my situation, i was told BS was an alcoholic (binge drinker) like her mother. who knows now if she really was. i often wonder if he was creative enough to make up the scenarios that he told. he bashed her for two years. when we last spoke, one of his reasons for chosing his wife was that she was going into a recovery program. although, it had to be just a weekly AA meeting b/c she emailed me a week later. but if it were true and she were...i can only imagine how he used her alcoholism to his advantage. i feel awful knowing that she is sitting around blaming herself a good bit...and with only partial disclosure from him. i hope that's not the case. i also feel horrible knowing that she may be on an antidepressant that keeps her sailing on through her marriage. just numbing what he has done.

[silktricks]

I hope you are right, but the fact that many of them still party and have BBQs at MM place with him, his wife, and my EX - as if nothing happened - leads me to conclude they either have zero empathy for me.. or no moral codes that they live by. Their actions speak louder to me than words.

 

Probably both....

[Spark1111]

yes. it would be interesting to know how successful reconcilation/rebuilding a marriage would turn out when placed in that situation. it has to be a long road...

 

in my situation, i was told BS was an alcoholic (binge drinker) like her mother. who knows now if she really was. i often wonder if he was creative enough to make up the scenarios that he told. he bashed her for two years. when we last spoke, one of his reasons for chosing his wife was that she was going into a recovery program. although, it had to be just a weekly AA meeting b/c she emailed me a week later. but if it were true and she were...i can only imagine how he used her alcoholism to his advantage. i feel awful knowing that she is sitting around blaming herself a good bit...and with only partial disclosure from him. i hope that's not the case. i also feel horrible knowing that she may be on an antidepressant that keeps her sailing on through her marriage. just numbing what he has done.

 

Well, Blizzard, this very well could be true.

 

But then again, it is an often used line from the mm's affair script.

 

her substance abuse problems could be exacberated by having an emotionally distant uncaring husband, who then uses her drinking as an excuse to step outside the marriage.

 

As he becomes more loveless at home, the substance abuser grows lonelier and then begins to...drink more to numb her pain.

 

See how vicious the cycle becomes?

 

A lot has been written about the co-dependency in a relationship involving a problem user.

 

If she TRULY grows stronger and substance free, one of two things happen: He cannot believe the wonderful person he's married and re-commits to her for life.....

 

or...(more likely, unfortunately)

 

He divorces her because he cannot deal with her strength.

 

Why?

 

He can no longer use it to be the victim in the relationship. Gone, gone, gone is the primary cause of all his self-pity.

[YellowShark]

Probably both....

 

Yup. And that is why they have all been black-holed.

 

in my situation, i was told BS was an alcoholic (binge drinker) like her mother. who knows now if she really was. i often wonder if he was creative enough to make up the scenarios that he told.

 

Hell, Jesse James told his affair partners he was separated/divorcing Sandra Bullock when that wasn't the case at all.

 

Therefore I think that the WS will say ANYTHING to demonize the BS because fundamentally they are cheating... and therefore entirely untrustworthy.

[turnstone]

It seems they demonize the BS to themselves as well. As you all know.

 

Anything to not accept the 'wrongness' of what they're doing, anything to justify it even to their own conscious.

 

I guess this must mean they actually have a conscious!