willowthewisp Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 ...goes through the five stages of grief, but some of that occurs before they leave, then where is the barganing stage? Just a thought, perhaps I am missing something here but all the counselling sources etc tell you that the leaver, (and I'm referring to those who walk as in abandonment, not those who tried to fix their marraige first), goes through all the stages of grieving as well as the left. If that is the case then what exactly would be an indiction of the bargining stage? The left will usually beg, plead etc. I don't see any evidence of bargining in those who choose to walk never having expressed unhappiness previously?
You Go Girl Posted August 29, 2010 Posted August 29, 2010 If they failed to express unhappiness and bargain before the split, then they bargain later, either with their religious god, or with the belief in karma, or with themselves--fighting it out what they have done. Seems to me the WAS that just ups and leaves, it comes back to haunt them. The guilt may not come for years, but it probably will come. We all have to grow up and face ourselves sometime. There are people who carry guilt for a lifetime, I think this situation may be one of those.
trippi1432 Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 Just an idea, but I think that what a lot of us fail to realize about the WAS is that it truly isn't about blame at all. We blame them, they blame us....we blame ourselves...they were already doing that to themselves before we even knew. Did we ever have a chance....yes, everyday we woke up and started a new day and so did they. Did they have a chance to tell us...yes, everyday they woke up and were not happy. If everyone were honest about their feelings, marriage wouldn't exist. All of it is really open-ended when you think about it. Even Maslow speaks to the Hierarchy of Needs - Survival, Safety, Love, Esteem and Actualization. Of these, my ex and I only had love....believe it or not, that does not meet all the needs of a marriage. I would say more, but don't want to get dinged for copyright stuff....so just google maslow's hierarchy of needs and marriage and read the excerpt for yourself....Maslow was my hero from my undergrad days...something in my mind that just comes full circle.
tojaz Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 A true WAS Bargains, but not for the relationship, they are after all deciding on its demise. The bargaining stage for a WAS (in my opinion) would be the stage of justifying their actions to themselves. Making it not only an acceptable decision but in their own mind, the ONLY reasonable one long before their concerns are aired to the left behind spouse. It is a scenario that i would imagine is rarely seen by anyone else. TOJAZ
trippi1432 Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 A true WAS Bargains, but not for the relationship, they are after all deciding on its demise. The bargaining stage for a WAS (in my opinion) would be the stage of justifying their actions to themselves. Making it not only an acceptable decision but in their own mind, the ONLY reasonable one long before their concerns are aired to the left behind spouse. It is a scenario that i would imagine is rarely seen by anyone else. TOJAZ I would say that the problem is that we don't know when they are bargaining.....when they are deciding the demise...justifying starts at the end...they are way ahead of you....but they still hold the power of deciding to wake up happy or waking up miserable...that is on their shoulders...we don't control it...we are merely puppets in the play. The point is, not everyone is on the same page every single day...when one decides that is a determining factor to their happiness or their "needs", then it is on them to take that on as a card to leave or to talk it out...most WAS, they take the easy road.
tojaz Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 I would say that the problem is that we don't know when they are bargaining.....when they are deciding the demise...justifying starts at the end...they are way ahead of you....but they still hold the power of deciding to wake up happy or waking up miserable...that is on their shoulders...we don't control it...we are merely puppets in the play. The point is, not everyone is on the same page every single day...when one decides that is a determining factor to their happiness or their "needs", then it is on them to take that on as a card to leave or to talk it out...most WAS, they take the easy road. Justification is an ongoing process in a WAS. First to themselves and then defending that to the world. Thats the part we see. In mine the justification was "People cant change, we cant change our dynamic" Burned into my head like a cattle brand. A perfect response that can't be disproven, because it takes time. Gives almost complete control over the situation. TOJAZ
trippi1432 Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 Justification is an ongoing process in a WAS. First to themselves and then defending that to the world. Thats the part we see. In mine the justification was "People cant change, we cant change our dynamic" Burned into my head like a cattle brand. A perfect response that can't be disproven, because it takes time. Gives almost complete control over the situation. TOJAZ Well, I can agree, justifying the means to an end I guess. It does take time, time that they are not willing to put into the marriage once they state their dissatisfaction or once they have made up their minds. Mine's justification was similar, except it was me who was supposed to change....overnight....I didn't respond quickly enough or so was his justification.
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