DitkasMoustache Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 Hi all. Been lurking here for a little over a month or so and I guess it's finally time I add my story to the (depressingly) long list of cheated spouses. Me- 36 year old guy Wife- 31 year old gal Together for eight years, married for just shy of four. Two and a half years ago my wife and I set out to dramatically alter our circumstances. We were leaving high-paying jobs in the big city and moving way out west to downsize everything. At the same time we learned we were pregnant with our first child. Soon after the move we learned that our baby would be born with significant challenges. And then we both found ourselves unemployed. Our savings dwindled and then so did our retirement fund. Medical bills arrived seemingly every other day. Our Big Plan had failed spectacularly and each subsequent new plan seemed to suffer the same fate. To say our perspectives were altered is an understatement. But we moved forward into the highs and lows with hearts full of optimism and a promise to accept complete responsibility for our decisions. For me at least I sincerely believed that we’d come out of this stronger than we had gone into it. Silver linings aren’t hard to find if you’re willing to see them. After all, we had a wonderful, happy, and beautiful little boy… and we had each other. Anything else was just gravy. A year ago she took a job back east and I began my new career as a stay-at-home dad and full-time student. This arrangement, her taking on the role of breadwinner and me assuming household duties and a full class schedule, had been part of our negotiation when she asked if we could move to this particular city. We didn’t anticipate the separation though, and intended it to be temporary until we could determine our new plan but the stress was undeniable. The temporary arrangement turned into nearly a year of occasional visits. Every three or four weeks we’d get to spend a long weekend together, and of course we were in constant communication online and via telephone. Still, we were grateful that she found a position that paid so well. And we were still a family. Last month I learned that she’d met someone at work. They shared a connection; his marriage is failing, too, and misery shared is misery mitigated. I should have worried when, while she was attending a conference several weeks earlier, she failed to call or text me for several days. She explained that she’d been busy networking and I was eager to latch onto that as a reasonable excuse. But my gut started sending my brain signals that my heart tried desperately to ignore. As far as I know the affair hasn’t yet been consummated but again, my gut wonders. We now find ourselves in the terrifying position of learning how to communicate through the fog of anger and hurt and disappointment and unkept promises. I learned of the affair prior to her visit last month because our chats the week leading up to it had made me suspicious. I installed a keylogger on the PC and intercepted some chats with the OM and I gained access to her e-mail. In those messages she said she loved him, things like "love you, want you, need you, miss you", "I'm terrified of coming clean" and "the challenge now is how to get out of our situations without raining down a ****storm so we can be together". She admitted to an EM when I showed her the messages. She was furious with me for "hacking" into her e-mail, insisting that it was just as bad as her EM. She says we'll never be able to trust each other again though I've made every effort to ensure she knows I want to move past this. Since then she's engaged in what I'd call gaslighting and emotional abuse. On the one hand she wants the baby and I to move back east. I suspect ulterior motives and she actually admitted this to the OM in one of their chats. As the primary caregiver for the last year I'm all but guaranteed custody if we divorce. She says we need to work on our relationship, though she doesn't know whether or not she wants to remain married... as though the two are distinguishable from each other. She says she loves me but when I insisted that she end the affair and promise to commit 100% to repairing the marriage she complained that I was asking her to end her friendship with OM (I told her that in an ideal world she'd break off contact with him completely, but as they work together and as I know she won't break off contact the best I could ask for was a promise that she'd end the affair). She still calls me "sweetie" and "baby". She thinks that if we divorce "nothing will change between us" (huh?). She says she'll always love me regardless of what happens (huh?!?). That we can always get married again in the future (wtf?!?). That the only people who will have to put the pieces back together are us (what about the baby? Our families? Our friends?) During her visit this past weekend she admitted that she and OM had held hands but nothing else. Riiight. She also cuddled with me a lot but refused to kiss me on the lips ("Not yet" she said). When she asked how quickly I wanted to get back east I told her ASAP, but that I wasn't sure moving back east was the right thing to do (courtesy of the 180 advice from here ). I want some enthusiasm from her, some promise that she's committed to this marriage. She's... lukewarm... as far as I can tell in that regard. Next month she's going to another conference. We've agreed that I'll come out there for a weekend without the baby. It happens to be the same place we got married so I'm hoping we rediscover something, but I think part of me knows where we're likely headed. I guess if I'm looking for any advice it's simply whether or not this is typical of someone who's already moved on in their mind. I think there's a distinct possibility that she's trying to get me to make the first move for a divorce as that will alleviate whatever guilt she's feeling (and I know she's feeling some). I'm devastated and terrified, though I was smart enough to see a doctor as soon as I noticed I was going off the rails. The medication has lifted the looming sense of dread, but this has turned me into a useless student and it's all I can do to keep the household together.
Scrivdog Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 You might want to try the 180. Looks like that's your best hope right now. Stop pandering and begging - it'll get you nowhere fast. Here's a C&P: Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. No frequent phone calls. Don't point out "good points" in marriage. Don't follow her/him around the house. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. Don't ask for reassurances. Don't buy or give gifts. Don't schedule dates together. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them! Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! Don't be overly enthusiastic. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.
U2RockZz Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 "She was furious with me for "hacking" into her e-mail, insisting that it was just as bad as her EM" i would file for divorce after the above statement......there is no point of working on M when there is no M.......... you have a better chance of winning a custody and freedom from a cheater....i guess that's a jackpot....... you would regret if you won't....why do you want to be with someone who does not respect you/your feelings.....i would give a rat's a$$ about whether she is in contact with OM or not.....all i want is freedom...if i was you....
martini-mae Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 A few things that I noticed in your posting As the primary caregiver for the last year I'm all but guaranteed custody if we divorce. Primary caregiver doesn't mean you're granted custody. So, try not to be disillusioned by that. Thruout the years the role has been reversed but it does not mean that mothers are always granted complete custody of their children because they were the primary caregiver. Shared custody is a more reasonable expectation. She says we need to work on our relationship, though she doesn't know whether or not she wants to remain married... as though the two are distinguishable from each other. She says she loves me but when I insisted that she end the affair and promise to commit 100% to repairing the marriage she complained that I was asking her to end her friendship with OM (I told her that in an ideal world she'd break off contact with him completely, but as they work together and as I know she won't break off contact the best I could ask for was a promise that she'd end the affair). She still calls me "sweetie" and "baby". She thinks that if we divorce "nothing will change between us" (huh?). She says she'll always love me regardless of what happens (huh?!?). That we can always get married again in the future (wtf?!?). That the only people who will have to put the pieces back together are us (what about the baby? Our families? Our friends?) I can understand why you're pissed off about these things. Anyone would be. Sounds to me like she is extremely confused. I hate to play this card, however, women at her age do go thru "Life Reevaluations" Do I love him? Can I be with him always & forever? Am I IN love with him? (Men probably go thru these too) Plus you have the stress of being in separate parts of the country. That alone can cause immense stress on any relationship. I would suggest a separation, but you already are (for the most part) Whatever happened to "Absence makes the heart grow fonder?" Next month she's going to another conference. We've agreed that I'll come out there for a weekend without the baby. It happens to be the same place we got married so I'm hoping we rediscover something, but I think part of me knows where we're likely headed. I hope so too I guess if I'm looking for any advice it's simply whether or not this is typical of someone who's already moved on in their mind. 'In my mind' many many years ago, I had moved on. Mentally separated myself from the marriage. (we're married 30 years now) There was no infidelity involved, but other strenuous situations in our marriage. I actually moved away for a year. But after time, we both realized that we were much better together, than separate. We figured out our issues & reconnected. It is possible. But BOTH parties have to be willing participants. Good Luck to you.
RobD70 Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 She says we need to work on our relationship, though she doesn't know whether or not she wants to remain married... as though the two are distinguishable from each other. She says she loves me but when I insisted that she end the affair and promise to commit 100% to repairing the marriage she complained that I was asking her to end her friendship with OM (I told her that in an ideal world she'd break off contact with him completely, but as they work together and as I know she won't break off contact the best I could ask for was a promise that she'd end the affair). She still calls me "sweetie" and "baby". She thinks that if we divorce "nothing will change between us" (huh?). She says she'll always love me regardless of what happens (huh?!?). That we can always get married again in the future (wtf?!?). That the only people who will have to put the pieces back together are us (what about the baby? Our families? Our friends?) I know what this is, I’ve seen it before and even did it myself many years ago. She is purposely trying to give you false hope so you’ll agree to a divorce and sign the papers without much fuss. That or she has some plan to screw you over big time when you get there. Believe me once she gets what she needs from you it will be all Jekyll/Hyde with her. DO NOT TRUST HER. This is a bad sign, she has absolutely no intentions of staying with you so don’t buy into any of her stories of wanting to work on things. If what she says doesn’t make sense like you just noticed then she is lying. You need to pull the hell back, like way back, like get your forms in order to file for a divorce. Don’t let her leave you, she had the A so you need to leave her to keep your dignity.
Owl Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 Here's my suggestion. Stop worrying about any of her "controlling" comments, trying to make you feel bad for insisting that she end contact with OM. Tell her point blank that right now, she has a choice. And she has to make it soon...VERY, VERY soon. She gets to choose if she wants to be married to you, or if she wants to have OM in her life in any fashion at all. PERIOD. If she wants OM...that's her choice. The ramifications of that are you filing for divorce, fighting for custody, and removing yourself from her life completely and totally, in any fashion. You won't be her "friend", there will be no hope of resuming a friendship or any kind of relationship with her. She burns that bridge with you compltely, totally, forever. Or...she chooses to remain married to you. That means removing OM from her life....forever. PERIOD. NC with him, full commitment to rebuilding the marriage, to include whatever steps it takes to get the two of you living together again. Either she quits her job so that she's no longer in contact with OM, or he does. Marriage counseling to help the two of you work out the issues and problems you're dealing with...etc... Basically, my wife faced that same choice. She initially wanted the same kind of fantasy that your wife asked for. She imagined us all ending up in some kind of big, happy, extended family triangle. Me as her friend, OM as her new H, and the kids happily bouncing back and forth between the two. She figured this would happen as part of our "trial seperation" that was being considered as a result of me confronting her about her emotional affair. I tolerated that kind of thinking for about 2-3 weeks, and then it came to a head. I gave her the same ultimatum I'm recommending to you. OM....or me. She CANNOT have both. Sure, she was angry/hurt/etc... That didn't change the situation one whit. I spelled out the specifics of what she was going to lose if she opted to be with OM. I made it clear all the good things we had...that would no longer be possible if she chose to be with him. I MEANT IT. She chose. She chose to reconcile with me. This was over six years ago. We took a year of marriage counseling to work through things...and our marriage is as great now as ever. We recovered. It worked. I can't promise that she'll choose you. But I can promise that if you try to let her keep OM in her life...your marriage will never recover,and you will not be happy. If he's in her life...she will never fully recommit to you and your marriage. Don't compromise with her...because it won't work. INSIST on what you and your marriage need to recover.
Allthehurt Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 You have to be strong here. No a$$ kissing She feels like kissing you is like cheating on OM Get tough today. You need to speak to an atty ASAP to know your rights My guess is she already slept with OM several times You must get tough!!!
Owl Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 Tell her that she's got one week...by noon next Friday...to choose and take action to implement her choice. Don't let tears and silliness dissuade you. If you give her longer...she'll still fight and not make a choice. There's no value in postponing her choice...on the contrary...it'll hurt your position. And I agree with talking to an attorney. I did the same thing. When she realized that there would be no seperation...no "temporary" divorce, but a full dissolution between us...that's when she realized that her fantasy of keeping me AND OM in her life wasn't going to be...she had to choose.
seibert253 Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 (edited) Tell her that she's got one week...by noon next Friday...to choose and take action to implement her choice. Don't let tears and silliness dissuade you. If you give her longer...she'll still fight and not make a choice. There's no value in postponing her choice...on the contrary...it'll hurt your position. And I agree with talking to an attorney. I did the same thing. When she realized that there would be no seperation...no "temporary" divorce, but a full dissolution between us...that's when she realized that her fantasy of keeping me AND OM in her life wasn't going to be...she had to choose. The Owl is wise above all. Listen and do as he says as you'll probably get no better advice. To add to what he says, once you give the ultimatum, 180, 180, and 180 some more. Read up on it, memorize it, and live it. She needs to see and feel what the consequences or her actions will bring, and what life will be like without you and your child. I was like you and many on here. I waffled, begged, grovelled, then finally had enough. Told her to chose, me or the OM and gave her 7 days. On day 6 after reading the D papers, Bam! Fog lifted and home she came. Do not wait, start today. Edited August 27, 2010 by seibert253
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 Tell her that she's got one week...by noon next Friday...to choose and take action to implement her choice. Don't let tears and silliness dissuade you. If you give her longer...she'll still fight and not make a choice. There's no value in postponing her choice...on the contrary...it'll hurt your position. And I agree with talking to an attorney. I did the same thing. When she realized that there would be no seperation...no "temporary" divorce, but a full dissolution between us...that's when she realized that her fantasy of keeping me AND OM in her life wasn't going to be...she had to choose. Yup... she is going to sit on the fence as long as you allow it. Time to show her your a man and push her off! Also... I think you may be able to get a rockin amount of alimony and child support. If your thinking of sacrificing yourself to keep the family together. I would not do it. 8 years? So what! At your age you can still find someone better.... and she will probably help you raise that child in a loving home. Or you can let your wife heap the same emotional abuse on the child that she is on you... Don't think this is just a one time deal.
Author DitkasMoustache Posted August 28, 2010 Author Posted August 28, 2010 Thanks for the advice and encouragement, everyone. I really do appreciate it. It's been about 6 weeks and it's only been within the last two or three that I've embraced my anger. I think I've been really good at not letting the anger manifest itself destructively though. There's too much at stake for me to get stupid. I've spoken with two attorneys; one within days of learning of this and another last week. The assurance is that physical custody is pretty much a lock for me. The other is that alimony/maintenance is probably out of the question due to the short duration of the marriage. Which is fine... I want nothing from her in that regard anyway. CS will be enough. In fact, I've already taken every wedding/engagement photo in the house down and put them in storage, put my wedding band in the safe, resolved that if we D I will take nothing that even remotely reminds me of her, and have gone 180 to some degree. The only communication I initiate with her is to send her pics of the baby every day. My family and friends have been outstanding (seems a lot of my friends have gone or are going through similar challenges). I have options and won't end up homeless. I think a large part of my... paralysis (??)... is that I'm completely dependent upon her financially. And as a dude that's harsh. I realize that's potentially inappropriate but it's the truth. My tip to anyone who reads this looking for encouragement: if you're in this sort of situation and you feel yourself losing your grip... GET HELP. I immediately scheduled an appointment with a doctor and got medicated. Had my first counseling/therapy session today and it was the best thing I could do. Having a professional tell you that you're not crazy or entirely to blame is extremely helpful and they'll probably pose a few worthwhile questions to consider. Read through this forum and you'll realize that these things almost universally follow a blueprint. I was struck by how similar everyone's stories are when you boil them down to their component parts.
Author DitkasMoustache Posted September 2, 2010 Author Posted September 2, 2010 Just a little update... On Monday morning I retained a lawyer. My hope is that I won't have to pull the trigger on filing, instead using him for advice on how and what to communicate until it's decided that this M is over. Frankly, it was a hugely beneficial step in that I was able to realize I'm capable of ending the marriage and I believe that understanding was critical to deciding in earnest that I want to repair this. I drafted an "ultimatum" e-mail and sent it to the lawyer for review. He sent it back with some good comments and I think she's clear on my expectations now. I sent a brief message to my W that I still love her and am committed to this M, and that I'm putting aside my anger and hurt in order to focus on what she's trying to tell me. This is me being "magnanimous" in that we both know the onus is on her to regain my trust... and it's totally not 180... but I hope the good-faith gesture makes her a bit more comfortable and willing to talk openly (and it will certainly help in court if it comes to that). We'll be spending a few days alone together next week. I don't have any grand expectations but I am guessing it will provide a pretty good indication of what my next move should be. The thing that sucks is we'll be in the same place we got married and honeymooned. I heart irony I really hate having the D lawyer and making plans that I don't discuss with her while I'm trying to work toward reconciliation, but I think I've accepted that there are only two options available to me and I have to prepare equally for them both.
seibert253 Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 You're well ahead of the curve. You've done well Best of luck to you.
jnj express Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 When you are with her---withhold intimacy----do not let her control your being together with her comments (as before--I won't kiss you on the lips)How does a wife come to do that to an innocent faithful selfless Husband. If you are going to discuss the future---then, for there to be any chance of R.---she has to go NC, even if that means giving up her job, and re-joining you where your home is----At this point it should be her mge., and family over ANYTHING else, If she can't agree to that---then yes, you need to cut her loose. You should try to get into the WHY she found it necessary to leave her own child, and H., for another man----Does it possibly relate to her acting out agst. any FOO problems she may have had. Do the best you can, and remember do not give in to her----SHE IS THE CHEATER----you have done nothing wrong----Also if a D. proceeding does come about---you definitely need to ask for alimony---it is you who subverted your life, so she could leave and take a job---so she needs to fulfill her obligations---- She was spose to have been working for the benefit of her family, she was not spose to be out there playing around with other men, in any way shape or form
Author DitkasMoustache Posted March 25, 2011 Author Posted March 25, 2011 Hi all! So... we're getting divorced. But before I get into that I have to thank y'all LSers again for the prolific and very personal advice. It's been a tremendous help. For anyone wandering into this thread who've only recently learned of their WS' betrayal know this: You will get better. I posted another "advice" thread with that as Rule #1. I'm 8 months down the line and I can say in all honesty that my W's A is probably the least concerning matter to me right now. The D on the other hand... well.. it seems we're going to be in the small percentage of couples who litigate their D. In the last week alone I have been accused of extortion, drug addiction, babysitting versus parenting, being antisocial, unable to keep a clean house, a scofflaw (four speeding tickets in 20 years! Oh my!! What disregard for the law this man has!!), etc. We tried mediation but it fell apart when custody came up. She wanted us to share the baby 50/50, with each spouse having the baby for three weeks at a time. Except she lives in DC and I live in Idaho and the baby is two years old. I said, "Hell no" which, of course, means I'm trying to keep her from her son (whom I've been primary caregiver to for over 18 months). The good news is that I was awarded temporary physical custody and child support back in January. The D hearing is at the end of next month and I have reason to be confident that the judge will make the arrangement permanent. I've maintained all along that there's nothing special about my marriage falling apart... except that it's *my* marriage that's falling apart But since this particular D case seems to be substantially more contentious than a lot of the Ds I'm familiar with please feel free to ask away. There are some juicy stories and, perhaps, those can provide some advice and moral support for other folks. For example: if you're a dude and you're the victim of domestic violence what's your best course of action? Or, so you're the dad and you want custody; how do you go about that?
KeyBiscayne Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Tell her that she's got one week...by noon next Friday...to choose and take action to implement her choice. Don't let tears and silliness dissuade you. If you give her longer...she'll still fight and not make a choice. There's no value in postponing her choice...on the contrary...it'll hurt your position. And I agree with talking to an attorney. I did the same thing. When she realized that there would be no seperation...no "temporary" divorce, but a full dissolution between us...that's when she realized that her fantasy of keeping me AND OM in her life wasn't going to be...she had to choose. Great advice...i like the way you handled things.
UnsureinSeattle Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 It sounds like you really handled things as best as possible (given the circumstances). it's a real shame she had to display her true colors to you in this way. I hope your lawyer is tenacious enough to get you full custody and deflect her allegations. Please keep us posted and let us know how it goes. Best of luck!
Binster Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 Read your post when you first came here and I just want to say good luck with the custody.
drifter777 Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 You have to be strong here. No a$$ kissing She feels like kissing you is like cheating on OM Get tough today. You need to speak to an atty ASAP to know your rights My guess is she already slept with OM several times You must get tough!!! Man, you need to listen to this person! Hire a lawyer, toss her to the curb and never look back. You sound like a good man and a dedicated father and you deserve a chance to be happy so get moving NOW!
Untouchable_Fire Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 I've maintained all along that there's nothing special about my marriage falling apart... except that it's *my* marriage that's falling apart But since this particular D case seems to be substantially more contentious than a lot of the Ds I'm familiar with please feel free to ask away. There are some juicy stories and, perhaps, those can provide some advice and moral support for other folks. For example: if you're a dude and you're the victim of domestic violence what's your best course of action? Or, so you're the dad and you want custody; how do you go about that? Just fight for the best interests of your child. Let's face it.... living in Idaho the next woman you date will probably be a quality person. Your STBXW living in DC will probably bring a child molester or some other cockroach home to wreck your child's happiness. I'm glad to hear your fighting for it!
Carrot2000 Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Your STBXW living in DC will probably bring a child molester or some other cockroach home to wreck your child's happiness. Or even worse, she'll bring home a politician.
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