Is it rape if....

[912458]

ok so if you were close to a guy and youve done a few things like kissing with him, and one day he asked you to hang out. You're used to just being eachothers company but he starts kissing you. You go along because it a kiss. But then he starts undressing you. You keep telling him no and youre not ready for it but before you know it hes inside. your virginity is gone. You hate the fact that it is gone to someone and you believed it was supposed to be for ONE person. So you stick with the person because you have to try to make it work. so you have sex even when you dont want to just to try and make it work until your married. later on the relationship doesnt work. Is it still sexual assault? He shouldnt have done it in the first place...

[OWoman]

You keep telling him no and youre not ready for it but before you know it hes inside.

 

If you say no, and someone goes ahead anyway, it's rape.

[TaraMaiden]

unfortunately, I think it's a grey area....

Rape, is illegal, even within a marriage, at least, it is in the UK.....

 

The first time he had sex with you, could be taken as rape, but you've had sex with him in what the law would describe as "a willing partner" since then.

I don't know where you live, but one thing I do know:

You really should contact a Rape Crisis Centre and speak to a counsellor there, because I think this is a whole lot messier for you to handle on your own. And I really don't think a relationships forum can give you solid concrete advice or support you need.

[Green]

ok so if you were close to a guy and youve done a few things like kissing with him, and one day he asked you to hang out. You're used to just being eachothers company but he starts kissing you. You go along because it a kiss. But then he starts undressing you. You keep telling him no and youre not ready for it but before you know it hes inside. your virginity is gone. You hate the fact that it is gone to someone and you believed it was supposed to be for ONE person. So you stick with the person because you have to try to make it work. so you have sex even when you dont want to just to try and make it work until your married. later on the relationship doesnt work. Is it still sexual assault? He shouldnt have done it in the first place...

 

Rape isn't just one thing. Rape can be a group of prisoners who beat the crap out of some one and then have sex with the stranger. Or it can be a husband who after 20 years of mariage and 3 kids forces his wife to have anal or what ever against her will.

 

What you describe does seem like rape but really you should just go speak to a cousnler or some one before traumatizing yourself in my opinion

 

 

unfortunately, I think it's a grey area....

Rape, is illegal, even within a marriage, at least, it is in the UK.....

 

The first time he had sex with you, could be taken as rape, but you've had sex with him in what the law would describe as "a willing partner" since then.

I don't know where you live, but one thing I do know:

You really should contact a Rape Crisis Centre and speak to a counsellor there, because I think this is a whole lot messier for you to handle on your own. And I really don't think a relationships forum can give you solid concrete advice or support you need.

 

 

this seems like good advice. basicaly don't beat yourself up and seek professional help.

[TheLoneSock]

ok so if you were close to a guy and youve done a few things like kissing with him, and one day he asked you to hang out. You're used to just being eachothers company but he starts kissing you. You go along because it a kiss. But then he starts undressing you. You keep telling him no and youre not ready for it but before you know it hes inside. your virginity is gone. You hate the fact that it is gone to someone and you believed it was supposed to be for ONE person. So you stick with the person because you have to try to make it work. so you have sex even when you dont want to just to try and make it work until your married. later on the relationship doesnt work. Is it still sexual assault? He shouldnt have done it in the first place...

 

This is sensitive and circumstantial. If you told him clearly no, but then enabled him by giving showing even the slightest positive intimate response, then I don't think you'd have a case. If you told him clearly no and he still forced himself upon you/in you then yes. Rape doesn't have to be in a violent manner in order to constitute rape, but if you stated no and committed to that answer without reciprocating any sexual or intimate responses, he was clearly in the wrong. Seeing as how you stayed with him and continued having sex with him, I don't think it constitutes rape. Wrong, absolutely, but a felony, no.

 

The question is what do you do about it? I am sorry for your situation, especially given that it was your virginity. You have to stand up for yourself better in the future when it comes to this sort of thing.

[seren]

To answer if what he did was rape, I echo OWoman's response. If you say no, it is rape. Irrespective of what went afterwards, that first time, was rape. I urge you to contact rape crisis line to speak with someone.

[somedude81]

ok so if you were close to a guy and youve done a few things like kissing with him, and one day he asked you to hang out. You're used to just being eachothers company but he starts kissing you. You go along because it a kiss. But then he starts undressing you. You keep telling him no and youre not ready for it but before you know it hes inside. your virginity is gone. You hate the fact that it is gone to someone and you believed it was supposed to be for ONE person. So you stick with the person because you have to try to make it work. so you have sex even when you dont want to just to try and make it work until your married. later on the relationship doesnt work. Is it still sexual assault? He shouldnt have done it in the first place...

There are a lot of details missing between we were kissing and I told him no, to him being inside me.

 

How strong was the no, did you resist, how did your clothes come off etc.

 

If all you did was say a weak no, then just lie there and let it happen, then that wasn't rape because you didn't try to stop it.

[sweetjasmine]

Seeing as how you stayed with him and continued having sex with him, I don't think it constitutes rape. Wrong, absolutely, but a felony, no.

 

I don't think that actions after the first time are relevant in determining whether the first instance was rape. People stay with partners who have beaten them, but that doesn't mean that there was originally no assault and battery.

 

I think this is something for a counselor to address.

[Stung]

There are a lot of details missing between we were kissing and I told him no, to him being inside me.

 

How strong was the no, did you resist, how did your clothes come off etc.

 

If all you did was say a weak no, then just lie there and let it happen, then that wasn't rape because you didn't try to stop it.

 

Wrong.

 

If she says 'a weak no', a good man stops then and there, game over, pants back on, time for a cold shower and maybe a walk to burn off some frustration. A rapist keeps pushing forward. There are all kinds of reasons why a woman's cry might seem weak, why she might just 'lie there', and those can include inebriation, fear, shock--if a woman says no, that's the line being drawn. Everything should stop right there. The only exception to this is if it's some kind of rape fantasy role play with everything discussed and agreed to beforehand and some other safe word established besides 'no'.

 

Agreeing with all the other posters, it sounds like the first incident was rape, although the subsequent times are a grey area and legally, if not emotionally, consensual. I hope you are away from the man and out of the 'relationship', now. Please do call a rape crisis center, as they can advise you much better than we can.

[jj33]

Wrong.

 

If she says 'a weak no', a good man stops then and there, game over, pants back on, time for a cold shower and maybe a walk to burn off some frustration. A rapist keeps pushing forward. There are all kinds of reasons why a woman's cry might seem weak, why she might just 'lie there', and those can include inebriation, fear, shock--if a woman says no, that's the line being drawn. Everything should stop right there. The only exception to this is if it's some kind of rape fantasy role play with everything discussed and agreed to beforehand and some other safe word established besides 'no'.

 

Agreeing with all the other posters, it sounds like the first incident was rape, although the subsequent times are a grey area and legally, if not emotionally, consensual. I hope you are away from the man and out of the 'relationship', now. Please do call a rape crisis center, as they can advise you much better than we can.

 

Excellent post. Call a rape center. As OWoman said its rape. Whether its prosecutable now isnt the issue. The initial act was still rape and you need to speak to someone who is really knowledgable about the subject and can talk to you about it in person.

[somedude81]

So I get a girl to my apartment. I start making out with her, which she's going along with and seems to be enjoying it . I try to take off her shirt she says no, I go back to kissing her then try to get her shirt off again, she doesn't resist in any way. I take off my shirt and go back to kissing her.

 

I go to take off her jeans and she complies, back to more kissing. Try to take off her panties, she says no, I'm not ready. Go back to kissing and nibbling etc. Go for the panties again and she doesn't say anything. I take off my shorts and we're both naked. More kissing and foreplay stuff. Put on a condom, she say no, I don't know you enough. More foreplay for a few minutes. I try again she says nothing or puts up any resistance, then we have sex.

 

Was she raped?

[Spark1111]

When my daughters went to college I told them: NEVER be the last girl alone at the end of the party, especially if everyone has been drinking. I do not care if the guys are all your close friends. NEVER.

 

I told my son when he left for college, if a woman says no, in any way shape or form, back off and leave.

 

Why?

 

It's rape.

[Spark1111]

So I get a girl to my apartment. I start making out with her, which she's going along with and seems to be enjoying it . I try to take off her shirt she says no, I go back to kissing her then try to get her shirt off again, she doesn't resist in any way. I take off my shirt and go back to kissing her.

 

I go to take off her jeans and she complies, back to more kissing. Try to take off her panties, she says no, I'm not ready. Go back to kissing and nibbling etc. Go for the panties again and she doesn't say anything. I take off my shorts and we're both naked. More kissing and foreplay stuff. Put on a condom, she say no, I don't know you enough. More foreplay for a few minutes. I try again she says nothing or puts up any resistance, then we have sex.

 

Was she raped?

 

Yes.

 

It is rape at the first no.

 

She can claim she was frightened, traumatized, afraid for her life, complying out of fear.

 

Rape is NOT aboust resistance. It is about consent.

 

After the first no, YOU sexually assaulted her until penetration. That's when you raped her.

[sweetjasmine]

So I get a girl to my apartment. I start making out with her, which she's going along with and seems to be enjoying it . I try to take off her shirt she says no, I go back to kissing her then try to get her shirt off again, she doesn't resist in any way. I take off my shirt and go back to kissing her.

 

I go to take off her jeans and she complies, back to more kissing. Try to take off her panties, she says no, I'm not ready. Go back to kissing and nibbling etc. Go for the panties again and she doesn't say anything. I take off my shorts and we're both naked. More kissing and foreplay stuff. Put on a condom, she say no, I don't know you enough. More foreplay for a few minutes. I try again she says nothing or puts up any resistance, then we have sex.

 

Was she raped?

 

Yes, she was.

 

And quite frankly it's very disturbing to me that there are people out there who think it's rape only if the other person is screaming, scratching, and hitting, resisting with every ounce of energy. If someone says no repeatedly, but the other person keeps going anyway, it's rape. Period. A situation like that is not the time to try to read someone's mind.

 

Under your logic, if an older person molests a child who's too scared to do anything except sit there and take it, it's not rape because the child wasn't yelling, kicking, and screaming.

[Feelin Frisky]

Rape, in the context of persons of age, is considered an act of violence more than an act of sexual indiscretion. In the OP's case, however, apparently this incident IS having long-ranging psychological implications based upon her ethical mores. It would have to be a matter of trial in a court of law and the effectiveness of both side's councel to determine if it were judged a premeditated, aggravated or other degree of rape. The law today tends to reflect that NO MEANS NO. But in actual constitution of severity and penalty there is great margin for debate. Unfortunately this places much burden on the victim to substantiate evidence of unwillingness wherein evidence of physical harm becomes the most bankable. If no such evidence exists, it becomes a matter of word against word and the jury can be swayed to only value physical evidence in drawing conclusion by the defense team and even the judge. I was foreman on a grand jury and had several such cases to lead the quorum to decide indictment or not based on evidence or not. It was quite a learning and developmental experience.

[somedude81]

Yes.

 

It is rape at the first no.

 

She can claim she was frightened, traumatized, afraid for her life, complying out of fear.

 

Rape is NOT aboust resistance. It is about consent.

 

After the first no, YOU sexually assaulted her until penetration. That's when you raped her.

In this hypothetical situation, can she really claim to be afraid for her life when she's having a good time making out with a guy?

 

Does it really go through a girls mind that if she doesn't go along with what's happening the guy will suddenly shift into a maniac and hurt her?

Yes, she was.

 

And quite frankly it's very disturbing to me that there are people out there who think it's rape only if the other person is screaming, scratching, and hitting, resisting with every ounce of energy. If someone says no repeatedly, but the other person keeps going anyway, it's rape. Period. A situation like that is not the time to try to read someone's mind.

There are many ways to resist between just giving a weak no and screaming, scratching and hitting.

 

I took a 400 level human sexuality course. My professor briefly talked about token resistance. She said the best way to make sure sex doesn't happen when you don't want it to, is to just raise your voice. That's it.

Under your logic, if an older person molests a child who's too scared to do anything except sit there and take it, it's not rape because the child wasn't yelling, kicking, and screaming.

If you are saying that an adult woman has the same mental fortitude as a child, then I have nothing to add.

[sweetjasmine]

Does it really go through a girls mind that if she doesn't go along with what's happening the guy will suddenly shift into a maniac and hurt her?

 

Sometimes, yes. And I'm sure it happens a lot to people who have been traumatized in the past.

 

And I can definitely picture a scared 15 year old girl letting it happen because she doesn't know what to do or how to stand up for herself besides saying no weakly.

 

There are many ways to resist between just giving a weak no and screaming, scratching and hitting.

 

You mean like saying no multiple times, like the girl in your hypothetical?

 

I took a 400 level human sexuality course. My professor briefly talked about token resistance. She said the best way to make sure sex doesn't happen when you don't want it to, is to just raise your voice. That's it.

 

Like the hypothetical girl in your example?

 

If you are saying that an adult woman has the same mental fortitude as a child, then I have nothing to add.

 

 

No, I'm saying that silence or lack of resistance on the victim's part doesn't mean that they consent.

 

You have no idea what's going through another person's mind, and if they've already said no more than once, you're crossing the line if you keep going. Not everyone reacts the same way to these types of situations, and some just completely freeze up. It doesn't suddenly become okay because the victim is shocked and frozen.

[young&inlove]

I have asked this question to a counselor who specializes in sexual assault cases. She said rape is CASE BY CASE. You can’t specify in a couple of words for what rape or assault really is. She said that if the person who is being assaulted or what not, and has ANY type or wanting or behind cause such as if I do this he will like me, if I do this I will make this guy jealous, ANYTHING at all. It then is not rape. No matter what. Sounds to me like this girl did not really care about the wanting to stop. She wanted him to want her and that’s what she did by starting to make out with him. If she didn’t want it to go any farther then she should have set boundaries. Flirting or joking about sex or those things with the opposite sex will send wrong messages about your morals. Again it is case by case.

[somedude81]

Sometimes, yes. And I'm sure it happens a lot to people who have been traumatized in the past.

 

And I can definitely picture a scared 15 year old girl letting it happen because she doesn't know what to do or how to stand up for herself besides saying no weakly.

Who said anything about a 15 year old? If age is an issue, the girl in the scenario is 22. Would she just let it happen?

Like the hypothetical girl in your example?

Not once did she raise her voice. I guess it would have been a breathy sounding no. I've never been in that situation so I'm trying to imagine how it would sound. It's still very different from her saying no as to how she would talk in a normal conversation tone. The opposite of a strong but not shouting, No!

 

No, I'm saying that silence or lack of resistance on the victim's part doesn't mean that they consent.

 

You have no idea what's going through another person's mind, and if they've already said no more than once, you're crossing the line if you keep going. Not everyone reacts the same way to these types of situations, and some just completely freeze up. It doesn't suddenly become okay because the victim is shocked and frozen.

Seeing that the girl shocked and frozen is a good sign that something is wrong. Of course I'd stop and make sure that she's OK. But if she was actively making out and enjoying herself, is that a different situation?

 

What I'm trying to get at is if there is a difference between what her mouth says and what her body does? Would a girl be scared of a guy and keep kissing him?

[WintersNightTraveler]

Was she raped?

 

In the original post description, yes (assuming the description is true.) Just because she dated him afterwards doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Sadly this happens sometimes, it's a twisted situation where the woman feels trapped, terrified, panicked, and doesn't know how to dig herself out, even for weeks or months. Attitudes like yours encourage the shame that helps enable such a sad situation.

 

In your description, probably. Sure there are some women out there who might do that as part of a fantasy and secretly want to get f*cked while objecting with someone they barely know. But that's less common that straight up date rape, and would be stupid both on their part and yours for taking such a chance with a stranger or acquaintance. Consentual rape play is not a first date type of thing, but some people like to live dangerously.

 

What a proper man does in that situation is ask her to leave. What a stupid horny ******* does is penetrate, probably raping her, just on the off chance she instead has a kinky fantasy. Just to get his willies off with someone he doesn't know that well.

 

What blows my mind is that you lack the empathy to understand a woman's potential fear and how it affects her actions, and that in the situation where there is a timid "no" you seem more concerned with the small chance the man is later unjustly accused than the very likely possibility the woman is raped.

 

Simply respecting the word no is a much more clear and safe alternative than some arbitrary standard of "how much resistance is enough." What motivates you to argue otherwise?

 

Yes there is a grey area. Yes I can completely understand a man being angry in such a situation. What I can't understand is why he just sticks it in instead of asking her to leave. Rape is the possible consequence of his action, he needs to face it. Why put the onus on the woman?

[WintersNightTraveler]

Who said anything about a 15 year old? If age is an issue, the girl in the scenario is 22. Would she just let it happen?

 

Panic in adults is not that different from panic in children. You are looking at this as a fight rather than an assault. It is not the same. Just because you do not fear something or would not panic, it does not mean all adults, especially women, need to be held to the same standard.

 

See how some men act when a knife is put to their throat, or they are gently pushed while teetering on a ledge. Some may stand tall but many will curl up or fall. Nevertheless all are victims, just like the women in the situations you describe.

[Stung]

So I get a girl to my apartment. I start making out with her, which she's going along with and seems to be enjoying it . I try to take off her shirt she says no, I go back to kissing her then try to get her shirt off again, she doesn't resist in any way. I take off my shirt and go back to kissing her.

 

I go to take off her jeans and she complies, back to more kissing. Try to take off her panties, she says no, I'm not ready. Go back to kissing and nibbling etc. Go for the panties again and she doesn't say anything. I take off my shorts and we're both naked. More kissing and foreplay stuff. Put on a condom, she say no, I don't know you enough. More foreplay for a few minutes. I try again she says nothing or puts up any resistance, then we have sex.

 

Was she raped?

 

It's possible that she's the kind of idiot who thinks she needs to put up some 'token' resistance she doesn't really mean, to feel better about sex. I wish there weren't stupid women who did that, but there are a few.

 

It's also very possible that she was drunk, or high and confused, or you were triggering frightening memories from when she was a child and powerless, or she was heavily socialized all her life to not fight or to not resist male authority, or she is in shock at the violation of her personal boundaries, or she is actually afraid of you because you are larger and stronger than she is and you are more aggressive/intimidating than you think...

 

So if the above scenario happens and you keep going and have sex with her, yes there is a big chance that you have just chosen to become a rapist.

 

I know I would much rather be the guy who chose to pull his pants up, accept that he had a frustrating almost-sexual encounter, and went home with a clean conscience and wanked it alone, than be the guy who said what the hell, I'll take a chance on becoming a rapist today and for the rest of my life.

 

If she says no and you stop and get up and walk away AND SHE COMES AFTER YOU and asks why you stopped and says it's okay, she really wants to have sex with you, she really wants you to continue to take her clothes off and get inside her body, then it's not rape.

 

If she says no and you ease off for a minute and then just keep right on going, you've crossed a dangerous line and there could be some very gross smut on your soul.

 

Guys, if you are worried about a woman sending mixed signals, keep it in your pants and go find one of the many, many women whose sexual signals are a CLEAR green light.

[Stung]

In the original post description, yes (assuming the description is true.) Just because she dated him afterwards doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Sadly this happens sometimes, it's a twisted situation where the woman feels trapped, terrified, panicked, and doesn't know how to dig herself out, even for weeks or months. Attitudes like yours encourage the shame that helps enable such a sad situation.

 

In your description, probably. Sure there are some women out there who might do that as part of a fantasy and secretly want to get f*cked while objecting with someone they barely know. But that's less common that straight up date rape, and would be stupid both on their part and yours for taking such a chance with a stranger or acquaintance. Consentual rape play is not a first date type of thing, but some people like to live dangerously.

 

What a proper man does in that situation is ask her to leave. What a stupid horny ******* does is penetrate, probably raping her, just on the off chance she instead has a kinky fantasy. Just to get his willies off with someone he doesn't know that well.

 

What blows my mind is that you lack the empathy to understand a woman's potential fear and how it affects her actions, and that in the situation where there is a timid "no" you seem more concerned with the small chance the man is later unjustly accused than the very likely possibility the woman is raped.

 

Simply respecting the word no is a much more clear and safe alternative than some arbitrary standard of "how much resistance is enough." What motivates you to argue otherwise?

 

Yes there is a grey area. Yes I can completely understand a man being angry in such a situation. What I can't understand is why he just sticks it in instead of asking her to leave. Rape is the possible consequence of his action, he needs to face it. Why put the onus on the woman?

 

 

Sir, I would like to buy you a drink.

[Cobra_X]

Yes there is a grey area. Yes I can completely understand a man being angry in such a situation. What I can't understand is why he just sticks it in instead of asking her to leave. Rape is the possible consequence of his action, he needs to face it. Why put the onus on the woman?

 

I don't completely agree with you here.

 

At some point we have to step back and stop worshiping with the cult of victimhood.

 

If you jump out in front of a bus... you don't blame the bus for hitting you. If you put yourself into this type of situation... you have to take part of the blame for the outcome.

 

So... Why do you think the responsibility relies 100% on the man? How do you justify that?

 

Also... the words "no" need to be accompanied by similar body language.

[WintersNightTraveler]

Sir, I would like to buy you a drink.

 

Sounds good to me, we can commiserate over the women we've had to ask to leave!