Shakz Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 This is all really too fantastical to believe. You and your wife are swingers, she likes porn, everybody runs around the house naked, you discourage your stepson's viewing of porn but your wife encourages it, now they're showering together. Somebody in that house needs help, but I'm not sure it's your wife.
Stung Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 I have to second JB's caution: you can in no way just trust your wife's word on this. Victims and perpetrators of incest and sexual abuse are often steeped in denial, unable to admit the reality even to themselves, much less to others who are disapproving. And you can find unhealthy dynamics in the 'best' families, even when the facade is thick and convincing for years--but really, that's a red herring to this discussion. She could have been abused by a neighbor or a babysitter, she could have never been abused at all but have some kind of mental or personality disorder that's breaking down her boundaries. It doesn't necessarily matter, at this point--YOUR focus right now needs to be the children. As much as it hurts to mistrust your wife, to suspect her of something so terrible, you are their father, it is your job to step in and protect them. I'm glad you are going to find a counselor. Please do go the extra mile to find one with training in this complicated dynamic. And I personally think you should install the camera. I am a mother who is having a hard time watching my baby boy become less of a baby, but her behavior is WAY outside of that natural mothering dynamic.
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 I'm tempted to put a camera in the bedroom and shower or something but then I beat myself up over not trusting her word etc. thanks again for all your opinions. You can't trust her word. Period. She blatantly avoided your question about him 'washing her privates' and is blameshifting to make you look like the sicko. The time for 'taking her word for it' is long past, and your son is already damaged if the shower thing has been going on this long. I'd have tiny remote cameras in both bedrooms and in the shower.
lostsunsets Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) You absolutely need to put a camera in your bedroom. Don't be naive. Think for a moment. If she is jealous of him getting a girl friend and yet is OK if he looks at porn. If he is allowed to wash her genitalia when they take showers together, and you both are swingers, her boundaries are virtually non existent. They are having sex. Edited August 25, 2010 by lostsunsets
quankanne Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 We sat down and had a long talk. She 110% denies its sexual. She absolutely has none of those feelings. Says its sick that I even think that way. She just doesn't want to let go of him. of course she's going to tell you what you want to hear ... how else is she gonna keep doing what she's been doing with her son? you're not violating the terms of your marriage by setting up secret cameras if it means your children are being protected from a sexual predator ... even if she *is* their mom.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 i want to get to the bottom of it. OK, but if you do so and discover nothing more than sloppy seconds, will you get rid of her and her son at once???
TinyLee222 Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Ok here is the thing. If this were a father and a teenage daughter showering and playing around, you bet the cops would be called and the father put in jail. Why is this any different? If this unbelievably sad story is true and I have my doubts and this kid is under 18 it's INCEST plain & simple. Why the hell are you with a woman like this? Do you need any more proof? And swinging as much as I find repulsive is between two adults that aren't related. I hope this story isn't true. Lee
keane2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Did you ever stop to think that by this time it is irrelevant what your wife thinks is happening in respect to your son? Sexual harassment is legally in the eye of the harassed. The son doesn't have girlfriends, but he's showering and bathing his mother? Who cares what she thinks except in the case of the other children? Focus on trying to get the son to talk to an unbiased professional. I'd recommend now.
keane2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 I probably wasn't very clear in the previous post, but my point was that the son is interested in sex (porn issue), and you indicated that he doesn't have other sexual outlets, so if he interprets it as a sexual encounter, then its a sexual encounter.
beatific Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 tnhusband, you need to follow your gut instinct. If something is telling you this isn't right (which no doubt it isn't) and you're hesitant to fully take her word for it you need to take that and run with it.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Did you ever stop to think Nuf said! I probably wasn't very (succinct) in the previous post.
sheryl Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Did you see the story where the dad shot his teenage boy who he found out was "dry humping" his little sister of like 3 or 5 years old? Teenage boys will hump ANYTNING dead or alive! lol. Seriously. I think you already know the answers here but in disbelief. My son is 11. I have such a connection to him that there are no words for. He still snuggles with me. I lie in the bed and snuggle etc. But would NEVER consider something like what your wife is doing. I turn my head when he's getting in the shower cause I darned sure don't wanna see his hairy little pecker (he's developed pubic hair). My baby boy will always be my baby boy regardless of his age. And when he's 16 and 17 i hope he still hugs and snuggles with mom. But..... a shower? I read that and was like "OMGOSH!" Would you jump into the shower with your 15year old daughter? No. (least I'd hope not) This is like asking if it's ok for a mom to nurse her 10yr old. I really don't mean to sound rude and apologize if i do but this really blew me away as I'm sure it did many others. It's called incest and I guarentee you the law would not be ok with it. She's engaging in sexual behavior with a minor and it's her son. Maybe she's only washing it for him but.. oh god that thought made me sick. thanks and good luck
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 (edited) NO CAMERAS. This will be further trespass against the incest victim. The showering is enough evidence. Whether she has full on sex or not ... it is incest. Even if she has NO sexual feelings or interest in her son and truly believes showering and mutual washing is innocent (I doubt it, but just in case) this is still incest. A teenage boy NEEDS the boundaries between himself and his parents when it comes to sex. Teenagers are exploding with burgeoning sexuality. This experience will f**k him up even if there is not intercourse. My ex husband was the victim of incest by his mother. I cannot begin to describe the horrible damage that it did to him. I know several women who were victims of familial incest. They had much to deal with ... but I think a boy victimized by his mom might have it worse. As a society, we do believe that a male's sexuality (when it comes to women) renders it impossible for him to be in the role of a victim. He "likes" it. Our society has a place for women in the role of "victim" but for a male, this is unmanning - and further damaging to a person already damaged by the incestuous behavior. In my ex's case, there was no way he could reconcile his feeling of love for his mom (normal love a son would have for his mom), his sexual feelings, her USING of him, her emotional hold on him, on and on. He ended up a drug addict who never could establish any boundaries with his mother. This relationship was the dominating factor in his life. In fact, she died last week. I am not in contact with him, but I would like to know if this can somehow free him at last (he's in his 50's now and remarried, still addicted to heroin as far as I know from our daughter). He needed his MOM. Kids and maybe teenagers more than ever NEED the boundaries parents are there to establish, model and enforce. Please don't pretend that this can be right, or that you are the "uptight" one because you don't feel that it's right. That young man has to live his life in THIS culture, and he will be terribly messed up to succeed at that because of your wife's selfish and sick behavior with him. Edited August 27, 2010 by Mme. Chaucer addition
Mimolicious Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 I read your older posts and can't say I'm too surprised. I think when you opened the door for swinging you let loose a monster. She isn't babying your son. She is having sexual interaction with him. Right under your nose. I know you don't want to accept it, but it is very clear what happened in that shower particularly since she is waffling about what it was. I have no doubt it will continue to happen for as long as you are in denial about it. If you love your son, save him from this. It will f*ck him up for life, if it hasn't already. You mentioned in another thread that your wife was low libido/sexless until you guys started the swinging thing, but if you think about it - her sex drive considerably improved as her son was reaching puberty/sexual awareness. It is a sick thought, but she would not be the first parent to commit incest. I'd be on the phone with child service and law enforcement, YESTERDAY. uummm.. the boy is his step-son. Not his son. He is her son. Just clearing up the info. Def not normal... This is disturbing.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 Last night I'm in the kitchen and wife is taking a shower. 15 year old asks me a question - I told him he would have to ask his mom when she got out of the shower. I hear him yelling at her through the bathroom door and then he goes in to the bathroom. 20 minutes later he's still in there and I find out they took a shower together. I'm 99% my wife is just holding on to being a mommy - she babies him to death. But isn't this a little weird to most people - I think I'm right that this is not normal behavior. She thinks it's no big deal. Wow thats truly odd at 15 Ive never been a fan of double showering other then between 2 partners. kids on the other hand should be taut boundaries even from a young age! somethings seriously so not right in your house dude..
InceptorsRule Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 You need to do exactly two things: 1. Report your wife to child protective services for child abuse/sexual abuse of your step son. 2. File for divorce.
Author tnhusband Posted September 2, 2010 Author Posted September 2, 2010 Well I did two things. First I did spend the money and installed some cameras. Second I convinced her to go to some family counciling with me. The cameras revealed no more showering together just like she promised. This was quite a relief. It did record a conversation they had while she was getting dressed with him in the room - nothing was discussed that was in the least bit sexual. It did capture a couple of sexual trysts in our bedroom that she didn't share with me like she is supposed to. All of age and consenting adults. I know it is a fetish of hers to have such trysts without telling me - it's something we have discussed many times. But this is a topic for another day. btw - I am allowed the same encounters but I always tell her. The first counseling session is tomorrow - not sure what to expect.
Distant78 Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Well I did two things. First I did spend the money and installed some cameras. Second I convinced her to go to some family counciling with me. The cameras revealed no more showering together just like she promised. This was quite a relief. It did record a conversation they had while she was getting dressed with him in the room - nothing was discussed that was in the least bit sexual. It did capture a couple of sexual trysts in our bedroom that she didn't share with me like she is supposed to. All of age and consenting adults. I know it is a fetish of hers to have such trysts without telling me - it's something we have discussed many times. But this is a topic for another day. btw - I am allowed the same encounters but I always tell her. The first counseling session is tomorrow - not sure what to expect. F**k that. You know that you need to go to child protective services and your lawyer to divorce your wife. At least report her. What if the counselor decides to report your session to the authorities?
Chrome Barracuda Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 TYRSTS WITH WHO??? this has got to be fake or this man is the most pathetic pdrson ive ever met in my life on LS. This is absolutely disgusting!
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Well I did two things. First I did spend the money and installed some cameras. WHY? Do you not realize at ALL that the welfare of this teenage boy is the crucial element of all this? He's already being damaged, whether he has a clue or not (probably does not) by the sexual boundary crap. Now his stepfather is going to be viewing whatever he does with his mother on video? WRONG. Why do you need to see it for yourself? Naked mothers washing their son in the shower is not good for the boy in the culture where we live. Because she doesn't want to let go of him? So she is binding him to her in a way that he cannot navigate out of through his lifetime, unless he is a rare example. Address THAT, please. I feel so sorry for this boy; also for any girls or women that he gets involved with in his life (if his mother ever allows him the freedom). Are you lost in your "alternative lifestyle" to the point where you cannot acknowledge any boundaries or discern appropriate behavior when it comes to sex? Sounds like you and your wife both are.
Stung Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 WHY? Do you not realize at ALL that the welfare of this teenage boy is the crucial element of all this? He's already being damaged, whether he has a clue or not (probably does not) by the sexual boundary crap. Now his stepfather is going to be viewing whatever he does with his mother on video? WRONG. Why do you need to see it for yourself? Naked mothers washing their son in the shower is not good for the boy in the culture where we live. Because she doesn't want to let go of him? So she is binding him to her in a way that he cannot navigate out of through his lifetime, unless he is a rare example. Address THAT, please. I feel so sorry for this boy; also for any girls or women that he gets involved with in his life (if his mother ever allows him the freedom). Are you lost in your "alternative lifestyle" to the point where you cannot acknowledge any boundaries or discern appropriate behavior when it comes to sex? Sounds like you and your wife both are. I agree that damage has ALREADY been done to this boy, and I do think that the violation of privacy issue with the cameras is real and should not be taken lightly. And yet, I still advised the OP to install the cameras, because if it comes down to a police investigation or custody issue, I believe he needs hard evidence of impropriety rather than simply going against the word of the (in heavy denial) mother. I know if this was happening in my own family between my husband and my stepdaughter (just the thought makes me ) I would be preparing for a major battle to remove my stepdaughter from my husband's custody, get her professional help, and perhaps take her myself (dependent on circumstances with her other family)--which would be very very difficult without evidence as she is not my biological child. Frankly I also question if the showers will resume after a little period of lying low, and maybe seeing it all for himself will shake the OP out of his relative complacency, make him realize he needs to move proactively to protect his children--all of them. Third, I have to wonder if the cameras will pick up something else, something he seems to think is unthinkable--evidence of his wife's deteriorating boundaries around her younger children, or of his stepson's confused sexuality becoming inappropriate around those children. OP, I haven't reread the thread so my memory might be a little sketchy. I seem to recall that you got your wife to agree to counseling, which is a good first step. However, I wonder how seriously you are taking everyone's submission that your stepson has already suffered damage from these multiple occurances, whether they ever happen again or not? He desperately needs counseling right now too, and from someone who specializes in this kind of thing. He needs a lot of help and guidance right now, more than you can provide by yourself. Is his biological father still in the picture? Do they have a close relationship?
Darth Vader Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 Well I did two things. First I did spend the money and installed some cameras. Second I convinced her to go to some family counciling with me. The cameras revealed no more showering together just like she promised. This was quite a relief. It did record a conversation they had while she was getting dressed with him in the room - nothing was discussed that was in the least bit sexual. It did capture a couple of sexual trysts in our bedroom that she didn't share with me like she is supposed to. All of age and consenting adults. I know it is a fetish of hers to have such trysts without telling me - it's something we have discussed many times. But this is a topic for another day. btw - I am allowed the same encounters but I always tell her. The first counseling session is tomorrow - not sure what to expect. So, if your wife is screwing someone else that she's not telling you about, like she knows she has to, why the hell are you letting her in your own bedroom? You realize that she's dumping on you, the marriage and the marital bed? So what do you get out of this, except she's cheating on you!? I'd Divorce her, she's shown that she can't be trusted! BTW, does she allow you to screw other women, or is she against it? I suspect that she doesn't want you to, but, it's ok for her to do so. Do the math MAN, you're being taken advantage of!
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 It sounds like the husband and wife are in an exhilarating, lascivious orgy of destroying or denying all boundaries where sex is concerned ... and creating at least one innocent victim.
InternationalPlayboy Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 That is totally messed up. My parents went nude around the house all the time when I lived with them - right up until I went to college. They wouldn't like hangout and watch TV nude, but they'd have no problem leaving the door wide open during a shower, get dressed with the room open, walk to the laundry room nude etc. Back then it always gave me the heebie jeebies to see them nude. So I've gone hardcore the other direction. My kids have never seen me without my shorts on. I wish you luck, man.
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