Wife's Boundaries with teenage son

[tnhusband]

We have been married 11 years now and have what we think to be a great marriage. Interesting and varied sexlife. We don't fight much - usually it's about the kids or money - the usual.

 

But we have had one nagging fight a lot lately - I think she is so wrong. She obviosuly thinks she's right!

 

Our oldest son (my stepson since 4 years old) is now 15 - he's becoming a man and in full blown teenager mode.

 

He has a laptop with certain rules - one of the big ones is no porn. However when he gets busted I make a big deal out of it. My wife tends to blow it off.

 

I'm a little conflicted as my wife and I both love porn but I just think he's too young to be getting his opinion of women and sex in such a way.

 

The second issue we have is nudity - I am so not a prude but my wife is still very much naked around all our children. The younger ones I am okay with. But at 15 I don't think it's right.

 

Last night I'm in the kitchen and wife is taking a shower. 15 year old asks me a question - I told him he would have to ask his mom when she got out of the shower. I hear him yelling at her through the bathroom door and then he goes in to the bathroom. 20 minutes later he's still in there and I find out they took a shower together. I'm 99% my wife is just holding on to being a mommy - she babies him to death.

 

But isn't this a little weird to most people - I think I'm right that this is not normal behavior. She thinks it's no big deal.

[GorillaTheater]

Last night I'm in the kitchen and wife is taking a shower. 15 year old asks me a question - I told him he would have to ask his mom when she got out of the shower. I hear him yelling at her through the bathroom door and then he goes in to the bathroom. 20 minutes later he's still in there and I find out they took a shower together.

 

Call me puritanical, but there's no way in hell that this is normal or healthy. With the very best spin this is still bizarre.

 

I can validate your feelings about this all day long, but I'm left at a loss as to what to suggest you do about it. If she's convinced there's no issue, perhaps propose that you run this scenario by a neutral third party. Or Child Protective Services.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I'm not a prude either, but I would NEVER take a shower with my 13 year old son. I haven't done that since he was 2 and only then in a bind. He will come to the door, open it sometimes but stay on the other side if I'm in the shower and can't hear him.

 

I can't imagine that. I have threatened to make him wear a bathing suit and bathe him myself when I don't think he's getting himself clean or he has a ring around his neck. I would do that.

[Jilly Bean]

wife is taking a shower. 20 minutes later he's still in there and I find out they took a shower together.

 

 

Um, the word for this is incest. You'd have to be heaving steeped in denial thinking she is doing this to hold on to her "baby". Actually, that is an even more disturbing visual.

 

As a man, I am sure you remember the inappropriate sexual responses a 15-year old boy is prone to. He is developing sexually, and it doesn't take much stimulation to get him going, even if it's the wrong kind. Your wife parading around naked gives him a sexual thrill, and she knows it. Her showering with him - well, I'm quite sure we all know what happened in that bathroom.

 

Your wife clearly has quite the sexual interest in your son. Evidenced by her supporting him watching porn (I CANNOT imagine what kind of Mother would allow this for a teenager), and then showering with him (whoa!).

 

What is her response when you asked her about this?

 

This goes way beyond your wife not having boundaries. Was your wife ever molested or incested? Because her behavior certainly shows every sign of it.

 

So, you have a very serious decision to make. Do you bury your head in the hand and allow their sexual relationship to blossom under your nose? Or, do you insist your wife go to therapy, with you initially, so that you can be sure the therapist is aware of the problem and also get your son into therapy?

 

NONE of this is going in the right direction.

[tnhusband]

Thanks for your responses guys. I know I'm right - just really helps to get unbiased opinions.

 

When I asked her she gave me the - oh it's perfectly normal - he's my son - and you have nothing to worry about. Kinda the same story when we argue about his porn use.

 

Do I think it's turned sexual - no.

 

Could it - of course anything is possible but I really think this is all about her babying him and not being willing to let him grow up. She gets mad when he talks about other girls - see - she's just not ready to give him up as her baby boy.

 

I want him to get a gf - so he can find out girls in real life are not like a girl on the computer.

 

I even asked her who washed who and she said he washed her but she made him wash himself. When I asked if he washed her privates she never gave me a straight answer. Now the more I think about it the worse my head spins. We had wild sex last night - which is not unusual but now I'm thinking like - oh god she was turned on by him...all the little things start adding up in a bad way but that's just the human brain at work.

 

I guess I need to really sit her down and have this out with her - will see what mood she's into tonight.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I couldn't drag my son into the shower with me. About a year ago he started needing his privacy from us, before he had no problem streaking through the house to get clothes. I can't imagine a 15 year old boy wanting to bathe his mother.

[quankanne]

dude, you've got a HUGE problem on your hands, and it's not a pretty one. It's incest, through and through.

 

Red flag 1: He goes in and bathes with her.

Red flag 2: He washes her.

Red flag 3: She can't give you a straight-forward answer about *what* he washed.

Red flag 4: She's jealous of the other girls in his life.

 

I think you've done a pretty good job being blind to it because you want to believe her, but this is a pretty sickening thing. What happens when your children together are that age and she's cultivating improper relationships with them?

 

as another poster suggested, this is something that goes back into her own experience, possibly being abused by someone herself. She needs help, and so does your family.

[Jilly Bean]

She gets mad when he talks about other girls - see - she's just not ready to give him up as her baby boy.

 

I even asked her who washed who and she said he washed her but she made him wash himself. When I asked if he washed her privates she never gave me a straight answer. Now the more I think about it the worse my head spins. We had wild sex last night - which is not unusual but now I'm thinking like - oh god she was turned on by him...all the little things start adding up in a bad way but that's just the human brain at work.

 

Um, no. That's jealousy on the part of your wife, not her reluctance to let go of her "baby". Particularly since there are much younger children in the house she could still "mother". She's clearly threatened by him showing interest in other girls, which is probably why she's recently stepped up her game.

 

I know this has got to be incredibly difficult to swallow. I mean, this is some seriously heavy stuff going on! And its heartbreaking to witness even in cyberland. I am truly sorry for you, as you sound like a great man.

 

But please don't kid yourself that this is all motivated from her unhappiness at her child growing up.

 

It IS about her sexualizing their relationship. Her having him wash her is also classic behavior in an incestuous relationship. She is building trust, and fooling him into thinking this type of activity is OK.

[Darth Vader]

Um, no. That's jealousy on the part of your wife, not her reluctance to let go of her "baby". Particularly since there are much younger children in the house she could still "mother". She's clearly threatened by him showing interest in other girls, which is probably why she's recently stepped up her game.

 

I know this has got to be incredibly difficult to swallow. I mean, this is some seriously heavy stuff going on! And its heartbreaking to witness even in cyberland. I am truly sorry for you, as you sound like a great man.

 

But please don't kid yourself that this is all motivated from her unhappiness at her child growing up.

 

It IS about her sexualizing their relationship. Her having him wash her is also classic behavior in an incestuous relationship. She is building trust, and fooling him into thinking this type of activity is OK.

 

OK, I GOTTA AGREE, YOUR WIFE'S RIDING (SHUTTERS) UM- HER SON!:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

 

Yepper, it happens buddy, I'd start getting the evidence and quick! I'd get ready to divorce her ass and quick if I were you!

 

He washed her and won't fess up to whether she washed him?:sick::sick:

 

THIS AIN'T NORMAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LucreziaBorgia]

I read your older posts and can't say I'm too surprised. I think when you opened the door for swinging you let loose a monster. She isn't babying your son. She is having sexual interaction with him. Right under your nose.

 

I know you don't want to accept it, but it is very clear what happened in that shower particularly since she is waffling about what it was.

 

I have no doubt it will continue to happen for as long as you are in denial about it.

 

If you love your son, save him from this. It will f*ck him up for life, if it hasn't already.

 

You mentioned in another thread that your wife was low libido/sexless until you guys started the swinging thing, but if you think about it - her sex drive considerably improved as her son was reaching puberty/sexual awareness. It is a sick thought, but she would not be the first parent to commit incest.

 

I'd be on the phone with child service and law enforcement, YESTERDAY.

Edited August 24, 2010 by LucreziaBorgia

[Darth Vader]

I read your older posts and can't say I'm too surprised. I think when you opened the door for swinging you let loose a monster. She isn't babying your son. She is having sexual interaction with him. Right under your nose.

 

I know you don't want to accept it, but it is very clear what happened in that shower particularly since she is waffling about what it was.

 

I have no doubt it will continue to happen for as long as you are in denial about it.

 

If you love your son, save him from this. It will f*ck him up for life, if it hasn't already.

 

You mentioned in another thread that your wife was low libido/sexless until you guys started the swinging thing, but if you think about it - her sex drive considerably improved as her son was reaching puberty/sexual awareness. It is a sick thought, but she would not be the first parent to commit incest.

 

I'd be on the phone with child service and law enforcement, YESTERDAY.

 

 

Agreed, but, he has to have PROOF, before he can get law enforcement involved. Like a tape recorder, or videotape!

[FryFish]

ugh.... I can understand trying to ignore his porn use... But the part where she has sex with him... That is definitely not good.

[demrea]

food for thought ...

 

imagine it was Dad and his 15 year old daughter ... would anyone even have any second thought other then call the cops and save the girl?

 

it wouldnt even be questioned whether or not it was wrong, it would just be wrong. no and ifs or buts.

[Jilly Bean]

OP - I wanted to add - I know this is very rough territory, but, you also have other little ones at home, correct?

 

Who's to say she hasn't been inappropriate with them as well, or wouldn't in the near future? It's highly probable she has/would, and also, if left to continue, your son will certainly perpetrate against his younger siblings. Its the sick cycle of child sexual abuse, incest, and pedophilia.

 

And I disagree with the poster that suggested that you guys being swingers is what may have contributed to her doing this to your son. Incest doesn't work like that. It's not something that is generally learned as an adult perversion - its something that is generally taught as a child. I just wanted to say I don't think you contributed to her pathology.

 

Protect your children. Your wife is very sick. Let's pray you are able to stop her before the abuse spreads further.

[Stung]

As an adult survivor of sexual abuse I have to urge you to put a stop to this immediately. Separate your wife and your stepson, get them both into counseling. Try to get a clearer picture of what is going on, gather some evidence so you're not relying on the word of someone who is confused, defensive, and lying. Get the police involved, for the sake of your younger children if nothing else. Her boundaries are clearly misplaced with one child, and what if they are misplaced with all of them?

 

I'm not a prude, I'm not offended by nudity, even cross-generational nudity. There are nudists raising teens and while I think it's a little weird and not the way I would go, I don't think casual nudity within a family is necessarily a big deal. I agree with you that 15 is too young for porn, but I could see that just being a parenting-style discrepancy between you two.

 

Showering with a teenager, letting him handle her body intimately, being jealous of his feelings for age-appropriate girls...GIGANTIC RED FLAGS.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Ohh... no, I didn't mean to imply that swinging led her to incest - just that those tendencies were already there, and when her husband relaxed the boundaries, she took that inch and ran a very inappropriate mile with letting down other boundaries.

 

Definitely not the H's fault, nor should he ever blame himself - just that the W took one case of relaxing sexual boundaries with consenting adults, and applied it to the sexual boundaries of parent/child. I can see her trying to blame him for it, but he can't be held responsible for that on any level.

 

Seriously, tnhusband - this needs to stop. Immediately. There is no telling how long it has been going on, or with which children besides the eldest that she has been crossing these boundaries with.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

So, in summary, we have a male poster who will forbid his step-son to view internet porn, but who will gleefully look the other way when the step-son and his own mother are having various forms of sexual relations or stimulations right under his own roof?

 

 

Yep, surely it must be all about the internet porn...

[Jilly Bean]

Ohh... no, I didn't mean to imply that swinging led her to incest - just that those tendencies were already there

 

Oh, gotcha, LB. Agree with you that the seed was already there, and certainly its possible being introduced to some type of atypical sex like the swinging could have set her off, but honestly, I think it would have come out even without them swinging. Incest is a learned behavior, not something one develops a taste for, so I think she would have acted out eventually. I guess now is the time since the boy is sexually maturing.

 

I think we definitely agree its a horrible situation and I cant even imagine how painful this is for the OP.

 

SINCERE - I dont think hes turning his head, but admittedly, its pretty stunning to suddenly face up to your wife incesting her son. It goes beyond the normal comprehension of what most people expect to go wrong in a marriage or a family. I imagine hes in shock right now.

[You Go Girl]

It's a possibility that she flipped her lid with the swinging boundaries set loose. This woman no longer knows what sexual boundaries are, AT ALL. With swinging behavior, she has been led to believe that sex is not about marital love, but some kind of game, and some kind of acting out high. She may no longer know when to get serious about sexuality anymore. I think we can safely assume that it is in part related to no sexual boundaries anymore within her marriage. Her sense of reality was destroyed.

I wonder if this is coupled with other acting out behaviors. Is she drinking? drugging? A lost sense of reality and normalcy within a marriage, and contrary to everything she was probably taught growing up, especially if coupled with mind altering substances, could certainly result in her losing all sense of sexual boundaries.

I'm sure the swingers are going to be all over me on this post. But my views on swinging are set, so don't bother.

[crazycatlady]

It's a possibility that she flipped her lid with the swinging boundaries set loose. This woman no longer knows what sexual boundaries are, AT ALL. With swinging behavior, she has been led to believe that sex is not about marital love, but some kind of game, and some kind of acting out high. She may no longer know when to get serious about sexuality anymore. I think we can safely assume that it is in part related to no sexual boundaries anymore within her marriage. Her sense of reality was destroyed.

I wonder if this is coupled with other acting out behaviors. Is she drinking? drugging? A lost sense of reality and normalcy within a marriage, and contrary to everything she was probably taught growing up, especially if coupled with mind altering substances, could certainly result in her losing all sense of sexual boundaries.

I'm sure the swingers are going to be all over me on this post. But my views on swinging are set, so don't bother.

 

Swinging is consensual sex between adults. In no way shape or form can you make swinging = incest. Its like saying homosexuality = pedophilia which is also no true. There are deeper issues then at play then simply sex if fun swinging. I do not believe you can safely assume any such thing about swinging. I know a lot of swingers (understandable given I am one) and not a one of them would do anything with an underage person. Heck, we won't even look at someone unless they are at least 21 if not older because near 21 its just too darn young, they lack life experience. What you are implying is false and you do deserve to be called to task for that.

 

That said, this woman does have issues, her son will have issues. The OP needs to get this stopped now, needs to bring in professionals now, needs to protect that child NOW. Don't read any more posts, call someone, get help. This is wrong.

 

CCL

[tnhusband]

Thanks to everyone for their posts and support.

 

We sat down and had a long talk. She 110% denies its sexual. She absolutely has none of those feelings. Says its sick that I even think that way. She just doesn't want to let go of him.

 

FYI when we swing she usually goes for older couples - so she has not shown a desire for younger guys in the past. Of course I know this is very different.

 

She has promised me that out of respect for my wishes she will tone it down - no more showers (apparantly this was a regular thing) and less nudity in general around him.

 

But she still thinks I'm overreacting. Totally denies any abuse in her past. I know her family and I can believe that - good people. But of course you never really know.

 

We are going to see a counselor - as i want to get to the bottom of it.

 

I'm tempted to put a camera in the bedroom and shower or something but then I beat myself up over not trusting her word etc.

 

thanks again for all your opinions.

[Chrome Barracuda]

...You cant trust her word. You do what needs to be done. Because when this all comes out she's gonna look worse than the hoe of babylon.

 

Whoever heard of a grown woman taking showers with their son?! WTF kind of woman is she!

 

Ask Anyone! ANYONE with common sense and knows right from wrong. and they'kk tell you it's wrong.

 

I think divorce is in your cards, it's not gonna go well for you, Get those cameras up, you'll see.

[Cee]

I'd suggest you do some reading about incest, especially emotional incest. The damage has already been done to your son. It's time to get educated so that you can support him in the future. I think you and your wife need counseling to learn about establishing healthy boundaries. And to disclose everything to a mental health professional who is non-judgmental and has wisdom. This isn't only about one egregious behavior (showers), it is about an entire pattern of relating within your entire family.

 

I know several survivors of incest (emotional and sexual) and as adults they have engaged in destructive behavior (heroin use, prostitution, sex addiction). They are in recovery now, but their stories are pretty harrowing. I have dated two men with abuse histories. One guy engaged in incest with his sister and this man was extremely damaged and is a sexual predator (with adult women). I felt bad for his past, but dumped him and blocked all contact. Another man was sexually abused by an adult as a child and he was suicidally depressed and unstable.

 

I tell you these stories not to scare you, but tell you the truth. Your son and your other child are in for a future of struggle and pain. They can recover and I hope they do. But you are the adults and you need to start the recovery process right away for everybody's sake.

 

If your wife refuses counseling, you should go by yourself. Right away. Now.

 

Good luck.

[You Go Girl]

I painted a picture of how loosing her sexual boundaries might have contributed to her lacksadasical attitude about nudity with her son. I said might have. If you choose to ignore that possibility, then go ahead and do so. But ignoring that possibility doesn't decrease it as a possibility.

[Jilly Bean]

We sat down and had a long talk. She 110% denies its sexual. She absolutely has none of those feelings. Says its sick that I even think that way. She just doesn't want to let go of him.

 

She has promised me that out of respect for my wishes she will tone it down - no more showers (apparantly this was a regular thing) and less nudity in general around him.

 

But she still thinks I'm overreacting. Totally denies any abuse in her past. I know her family and I can believe that - good people. But of course you never really know.

 

We are going to see a counselor - as i want to get to the bottom of it.

 

I'm tempted to put a camera in the bedroom and shower or something but then I beat myself up over not trusting her word etc.

 

Good. I am glad you are pushing this, and she has agreed to see a counselor. I would recommend selecting one that deals with incest. Others might not be trained to pick up the cues in her mannerisms when talking to her in person, and also wouldn't know the right questions to ask.

 

I suspect your wife is pretty steeped in denial over her actions as well, but most people with addictions, or abusive tendencies tend to be. That's how the acts perpetrate.

 

This has NOTHING to do with her "not wanting to let go" of her son. I know you've said that a few times, as I'm sure it's what she keeps telling you, but I'm sure you also realize this is not a normal response for a parent to have towards their children. Sure, bittersweet to see them loose their babyhood, to a degree, but parents celebrate and encourage their childrens growth.

 

How do you feel about the fact that the showers were a regular thing, an you didn't know about it? Does this make you also think that there were other things going on you were unaware of? Or, that other things may have happened with the other children?

 

And incest happens in the best of families. An old BF of mine's ex-wife was incested by her brother. The whole family knew about it, ignored it, and even as adults, would all get together as the seemingly happy family. Don't kid yourself that them appearing adjusted excuses them from abuse.

 

Don't beat yourself up over the camera temptation. That alone shows that you don't believe her, as you shouldn't. But, you're a good man, and a smart man, and as the healthy parent in the household, your sole job is to protect your children.