Maladjusted Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 I don't know the details of your situation.... Yeah.....great suggestions though!
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 I don't know the details of your situation.... But if you generally have a good/warm relationship (no festering resentments to be addressed, no unbalanced workloads, no medical problems, addictions, etc), I suggest turning up the "flirting" while dialing back the pressure for sex. Touch her during the day when sex is not possible--right before leaving for work, for example. Pull her in for a full body hug and a nibble. Touch her like you did when you were dating--but then don't follow up with a request for sex. Let the desire build up and simmer in her for a while. seldom works in practice..... Sorry all these ideas are good and seem right, but come time to execute, something usually happens........ The worst is when you are told something along the lines like "I felt like it last night, but then I fell asleep"..... Talk about poring salt on the wound.
mem11363 Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 It is important that we understand our spouses. Mine is mildly sadistic. Just like my cat likes to 'love' bite, love scratch. I embrace this behavior as it is a combination of a desire for some level of conflict and ALSO an odd type of foreplay. That said I do NOT have a sadistic streak. So when given a variation of the "I would rather drink a cup of bleach" I gave an honest answer. Since I would be utterly impossible to live with - stuck in daily contact with a woman I am very attracted to and deprived of sex. Hmmm: 1. Me - tense/angry/combative all the time OR 2. Her - having sex that she detests OR 3. Me - taking a lover and being relaxed at home while W gets to live the exact same life she does now sans the bleach drinking I immediately suggested option 3. I meant it. It was simply an honest and practical response to her statement. We can afford for me to rent a nice apartment nearby and well - that was going to be my gameplan. Turns out she was just pushing the edge of the envelope on her sadistic impulses. No harm no foul. She would have gotten a 30 day "grace" period to decide what she wanted to do anyway. I am very out of practice flirting/dating so I would have needed a bit of ramp time. Funny thing - I guess she likes bleach, 5 or 6 days in a row of it after that conversation. Ah the byzantine labyrinth of a woman's mind. seldom works in practice..... Sorry all these ideas are good and seem right, but come time to execute, something usually happens........ The worst is when you are told something along the lines like "I felt like it last night, but then I fell asleep"..... Talk about poring salt on the wound.
giotto Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 It is important that we understand our spouses. Mine is mildly sadistic. Just like my cat likes to 'love' bite, love scratch. I embrace this behavior as it is a combination of a desire for some level of conflict and ALSO an odd type of foreplay. That said I do NOT have a sadistic streak. So when given a variation of the "I would rather drink a cup of bleach" I gave an honest answer. Since I would be utterly impossible to live with - stuck in daily contact with a woman I am very attracted to and deprived of sex. Hmmm: 1. Me - tense/angry/combative all the time OR 2. Her - having sex that she detests OR 3. Me - taking a lover and being relaxed at home while W gets to live the exact same life she does now sans the bleach drinking I immediately suggested option 3. I meant it. It was simply an honest and practical response to her statement. We can afford for me to rent a nice apartment nearby and well - that was going to be my gameplan. Turns out she was just pushing the edge of the envelope on her sadistic impulses. No harm no foul. She would have gotten a 30 day "grace" period to decide what she wanted to do anyway. I am very out of practice flirting/dating so I would have needed a bit of ramp time. Funny thing - I guess she likes bleach, 5 or 6 days in a row of it after that conversation. Ah the byzantine labyrinth of a woman's mind. But why stay with a woman who'd rather drink bleach than have sex with her husband? If this is the situation, anything you do will be a compromise and you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. Yes, that your wife is actually doing you a favour by having sex with you. If this is the situation, rest assured it will never change. If you manage to change it, believe me, it's because she's been forced into it, some way or another. The relationship is f**ed and there's nothing you can do about it. And the resentment builds... Mem, you are lucky because your wife loves you and actually wants to be with you. That's not true for many of us, unfortunately...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 But why stay with a woman who'd rather drink bleach than have sex with her husband? If this is the situation, anything you do will be a compromise and you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. Yes, that your wife is actually doing you a favour by having sex with you. If this is the situation, rest assured it will never change. If you manage to change it, believe me, it's because she's been forced into it, some way or another. The relationship is f**ed and there's nothing you can do about it. And the resentment builds... Mem, you are lucky because your wife loves you and actually wants to be with you. That's not true for many of us, unfortunately... Right now she is just off it (less then 2 weeks).... She says it doesn't matter how good it is/was, just not part of her "head space" at this time. We are not all so lucky in the bedroom as mem11363.... I at least and always point that at least my spouse orgasms all the time, which is my obsession;). I was more posting the comment as another example of not understanding women whatsoever......
giotto Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 Right now she is just off it (less then 2 weeks).... what have done to her? Sorry for going off the tangent, as usual...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 (edited) what have done to her? Sorry for going off the tangent, as usual... I don't think anything.... She is on some HRT (hormone replacement therapy), which may be affecting things. She is just a little off, but I have been pretty good imo. She has been on edge. Getting away tomorrow for a few days, so we'll see. The point is we men are pretty simple to read and know how to make happy or piss off. A woman, and am being sexist can be turned off in so many subtle inperceptible ways.... Example, can make a wonderful dinner, clean up, do the dishes and then they find that you have left water puddled around the sink and that can throw her off. Or of course the toilet seat up debate or a urine stain left on a toilet bowl. Yes maybe after 24+ years I equate everything that may set off my spouse with all women, but I've heard the same from other men too that they are lost when their spouses turn on them.... Many are true issues when confronted, but oither are such small insignificant things in a man's mind or forgotten in a minute..... My wife, who is very hot headed and full of rage at the best of times has joked she is a "woman on the edge" lately. Of course too Giotto, we've heard the vague "don't make me feel safe" from you and others of late...... Back to you Giotto, I've been on best behaviour for the last 2 weeks....... Edited August 27, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
mem11363 Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 I am going to make 3 observations based on my extensive reading on this site and a similar site. 1. Many women hate being groped - it creates a negative association with sex 2. Some women have a highly negative reaction to being brought to O orally and then having intercourse that does not last long. I was truly surprised when I first read this, but it seems a fairly common reaction. These women tend to say "yes I come - but I don't like the overall experience when the actual intercourse is so brief" 3. If you are "overly" available / present and a woman is getting "too much" time with you - they feel crowded and far LESS sexual desire. As for what is "too much" I have no idea in general terms. I only understand my own marriage. But I will say that I know I am not "overly present" when at first sight - end of day I get a big smile and a "where is my hug?" TDP - You have touched on all 3 of these issues. For me - I know that all 3 of these apply and if I consistently had issues in those areas I would cause a sexual system crash. Right now she is just off it (less then 2 weeks).... She says it doesn't matter how good it is/was, just not part of her "head space" at this time. We are not all so lucky in the bedroom as mem11363.... I at least and always point that at least my spouse orgasms all the time, which is my obsession;). I was more posting the comment as another example of not understanding women whatsoever......
Tayla Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 I commend the OP for seeing that a problem exist and even wants to repair what can be repaired. Its not easy for a gent (spouse) to see the errors and then reconcile. Just wanted to say I commend the guy.
mem11363 Posted August 30, 2010 Posted August 30, 2010 For a woman - being thin is attractive full stop. For a man that is not necessarily true. I know many women who find the marathon man/no fat, very lean, little upper body mass/muscle mass a huge turn off. They would rather have a stocky guy who is a little fat, than a thin guy with no fat. I mention this because I see a LOT of posts by men who sound like hard core runners. Running is great - I do it. But a skinny body is a turn off for some women. My W is one of them. I am going to make 3 observations based on my extensive reading on this site and a similar site. 1. Many women hate being groped - it creates a negative association with sex 2. Some women have a highly negative reaction to being brought to O orally and then having intercourse that does not last long. I was truly surprised when I first read this, but it seems a fairly common reaction. These women tend to say "yes I come - but I don't like the overall experience when the actual intercourse is so brief" 3. If you are "overly" available / present and a woman is getting "too much" time with you - they feel crowded and far LESS sexual desire. As for what is "too much" I have no idea in general terms. I only understand my own marriage. But I will say that I know I am not "overly present" when at first sight - end of day I get a big smile and a "where is my hug?" TDP - You have touched on all 3 of these issues. For me - I know that all 3 of these apply and if I consistently had issues in those areas I would cause a sexual system crash.
mem11363 Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 Last night I was teetering on the edge of some ED - so to avoid a total humiliating loss of hydraulic pressure during intercourse I cranked up my speed. Result - I lasted about 30 seconds. Afterwards I apologized for my PE - W says - "did you actually come?" Apparently it was a very "low volume" output. So she said "maybe you suffer from premature evaporation." Great - I will go into the medical books as being the case study for a new type of sexual dysfunction - premature ejaculation of almost nothing. :( I am going to make 3 observations based on my extensive reading on this site and a similar site. 1. Many women hate being groped - it creates a negative association with sex 2. Some women have a highly negative reaction to being brought to O orally and then having intercourse that does not last long. I was truly surprised when I first read this, but it seems a fairly common reaction. These women tend to say "yes I come - but I don't like the overall experience when the actual intercourse is so brief" 3. If you are "overly" available / present and a woman is getting "too much" time with you - they feel crowded and far LESS sexual desire. As for what is "too much" I have no idea in general terms. I only understand my own marriage. But I will say that I know I am not "overly present" when at first sight - end of day I get a big smile and a "where is my hug?" TDP - You have touched on all 3 of these issues. For me - I know that all 3 of these apply and if I consistently had issues in those areas I would cause a sexual system crash.
mem11363 Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 I am lucky Giotto. She overlooks my myriad flaws and limitations. Not sure why. I tell her I feel lucky on a regular basis. But why stay with a woman who'd rather drink bleach than have sex with her husband? If this is the situation, anything you do will be a compromise and you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. Yes, that your wife is actually doing you a favour by having sex with you. If this is the situation, rest assured it will never change. If you manage to change it, believe me, it's because she's been forced into it, some way or another. The relationship is f**ed and there's nothing you can do about it. And the resentment builds... Mem, you are lucky because your wife loves you and actually wants to be with you. That's not true for many of us, unfortunately...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Just amazing the conjectures and observations you make.... Women don't like runners physiques, being brought to O orally, that men (me) grope too much and are too available.... Yes you hold out the perfect ideal.... We know that as you "get it" 3X's/wk..... But you are way too presumptuous....
giotto Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Just amazing the conjectures and observations you make.... Women don't like runners physiques, being brought to O orally, that men (me) grope too much and are too available.... Yes you hold out the perfect ideal.... We know that as you "get it" 3X's/wk..... But you are way too presumptuous.... BTW, how did your get-away go? Any improvements?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 BTW, how did your get-away go? Any improvements? Good and bad.... Nothing is ever perfect.....
giotto Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Good and bad.... Nothing is ever perfect..... sounds familiar... going through a "so and so" phase at the moment myself... reading "Too good to leave, too bad to stay"... yes, I do get depressed sometimes...
mem11363 Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 I am genuinely sorry if I offend. It is not my intent. Truly. TDP I hope you realize that I DO empathize with you. We HAVE had periods of time when my W was NOT "in love"/"highly into" me. I posted about a 3 month time period like that recently. It feels bad. During that time sex was less frequent than this imaginary 3/week you seem to envision. Far worse it was obvious to me that it required serious effort on her part to connect with me. Clearly this was a "guilt avoidance" behavior - she simply didn't want to "self perceive" as a bad wife. I claim no magic wand. I simply observe and assess. I was not critiquing you, instead was actually trying to be helpful. As for my "conjectures" I do not construct them from thin air. - The runners physique is something that I have to deal with. W does NOT like it and has been blunt to the point of being harsh on this point. And then I thought about the covers of all those Harlequin romances - they target a large market. The guys ALL have some serious muscle mass. I know nothing about your physique other than you are not fat. This was more a general comment. FWIW my W has NEVER read a Harlequin romance in her life. - The oral O + brief intercourse is based on MANY female posts combined with a comment you once made about duration. This is a NORMAL vicious cycle issue if sex IS infrequent. Personally - I noticed an uptick in my W's fondness for sex about a decade back when I was prescribed some meds that had the side effect of causing me to "last" longer. I am still on them. - You mentioned groping your W. Maybe it was in jest. Perhaps you don't do that. My W HAMMERED me in year one of our marriage for groping her. I stopped immediately and fully. She was LIVID when she finally blew on this topic and I realize I was harming our marriage. Honestly I doubt my groping was anything extreme, she just hated it and lucky for me she has a very unfiltered comm style. Many women on these type boards complain bitterly about being groped. - As for being "overly present" - surely this remark comes as no surprise. Your W has VERY blatantly told you that your divorced friends get laid a lot because they don't live with their GF's. I am sure there is more to it than that - but HER comment seemed very telling. Lizzie commented on this as a possible reason for developing a sexual aversion to her first H. As for all of this stuff I have a very simplistic view. There is no right and wrong in desire. There simply are things that amplify it and things that dampen it. I could very easily have told my W that I don't feel like lifting, making the effort to maintain a bunch of upper body muscle mass. She can't make me. Then again she can't force her body to respond sexually either. I could tell her that the conflict she craves/needs is irritating and I will treat her like a child when she provokes. Same result. Less desire, less passion. I can choose to be angry about how she is wired. Or I can understand the wiring and use that knowledge to create voltage in the system. Maybe none of the stuff I do would work with another woman. I have no idea. I simply observe patterns at home, often very similar patterns on the board and comment on them in what is intended to be a helpful manner. I am sorry if I irritate more than I help. Just amazing the conjectures and observations you make.... Women don't like runners physiques, being brought to O orally, that men (me) grope too much and are too available.... Yes you hold out the perfect ideal.... We know that as you "get it" 3X's/wk..... But you are way too presumptuous....
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