dp272005 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 My wife and I have been very happily married for 5 years, we are best friends, we can talk, we are open, and generally have a great time together. But when it comes to sex it seems like we have gotten more and more constricted as time went on. We started out like most couples having a bunch of crazy fun, the sex was amazing, and we both seemed to enjoy it a lot. gradually it has gotten much worse, and it doesn't help that when it first started to get worse I didn't understand what was going on, so when I asked and she said everything was fine I turned it into a fight, I was very confrontational and demanding and angry, I finally realized that I was not providing her with the safe environment and disposition that she needed to let me know what was on her mind about 2 years ago. we started communicating better and tried to revitalize the bedroom life, but it really hasn't done much. even so I have not been confrontational or rude about it. I don't want to alienate her, I just want her to tell me what I can do to make it better, or change to make it more enjoyable for her, but it has gotten to the point that I don't even want to bring the conversation up anymore. I don't want it to feel like a chore to her, she has gotten to the point now, that I can't really touch her during sex, and she tells me that she wants me to initiate it, but when I try she is busy, or tired, or any other number of things, and when we do have sex, as soon as she has been taken care of she wants it over as soon as possible. In short if this is something that can't be fixed I will learn to deal with it, our life is great, and she is a great wife, but if it is something that I can find a way to repair it that would be far better.
keane2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I was very confrontational and demanding and angry, I finally realized that I was not providing her with the safe environment and disposition . My marriage situation is completely different (wife battles emotional issues), but I went through a similar stage and thought I'd offer a suggestion. Is is possible that she feels and resents that your attention is always tied to wanting sex? For me, I sensed this although she wouldn't talk about it. I read books on massage techniques and emotional types, but also told her that I felt selfsish and wanted this to change. I let her know that the attention didn't have to lead to sex unless she wanted. Every evening and night, I did things just to make her feel pampered: notes in surprising places, massages, running her a bath in a soothing environment,etc. At first, I suggessted we take sex off the table, and went about this way. Later, I still made a point to tell her I was ready for bed after the massage on most occasions. Its surprising how this eventually becomes habitual. Of course, my wife was smart enough to suspect I was up to something, so it took a while for her to see that the intent was genuine.
Author dp272005 Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 the odd thing is, we are both very consistent about making sure the other knows how much they mean, and showing affection and what not, I have always been extremely confident as far as sex is concerned but after the last few years I feel like I have absolutely no clue what I am doing, I am fairly sure that it is something I am doing wrong, or a lot of little somethings I am doing wrong, but I have no idea how to get her to open up and tell me about it, or if she even consciously knows what the problem is.
norajane Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Before you married, did you ever date someone and then gradually started falling out of love and weren't interested in them sexually anymore? To me, it sounds like that is what has happened here. Your wife doesn't feel passion for you, so sex is just something to get through rather than to enjoy. You have become familiar, and she has become complacent. She loves you, but doesn't feel passion for you so isn't interested in sex. This puts both of you in a position where either of you are ripe for an affair. You know how you can add the words "in bed" to any fortune cookie fortune and it's much funnier? You should be able to add "in bed" to your first sentence: My wife and I have been very happily married for 5 years, we are best friends in bed, we can talk in bed, we are open in bed, and generally have a great time together in bed.That's how it was when you married, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have married, right? That you can't say our marriage is great (in bed), says that your marriage is not actually great. Your marriage is in big trouble. Just because all the other stuff is good, doesn't mean that you can sustain a healthy marital relationship without sex. Without sex, all you have is friendship. And you wouldn't have married her for that. So why would you stay married without the sex? I know you've tried talking to her in the past about sex, but have you seriously sat down with her and told her that your marriage is in trouble, that it is getting worse month by month, and that the next step seems to be an affair or divorce? Maybe she needs to wake up and realize that stonewalling you on this topic is going to lead to you walking out on her. Maybe she'll stop taking your marriage for granted, and maybe will want to go to counseling so you two can learn to communicate and find out what is really going on between you. As to your last sentence - you cannot fix this by yourself, and you cannot fix it until she admits there is a problem. Edited August 23, 2010 by norajane
giotto Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I did the pressurizing too (getting angry as well, but never physical) and wife got to stage were she would associate sex with a negative thing, so she was never up to it. This will take a long time to heal, if at all. I'm sure you are not pressurizing her anymore, but you really have to change your attitude about sex. Just pretend sex doesn't exist and just ignore it for a while. Maybe a few months. It will be difficult, but don't put her under pressure and don't mention it. She needs to rebuild the trust in you and she needs to believe that a refusal is not going to be another fight. Now, the bad news... This will take time and it might not even work if too much damage has been done to that side of the relationship. My wife is now much better, but we still don't have sex that often (maybe twice a month). I know I've done a lot of damage myself, and I have tried to explain, but the best medicine was to leave her alone for a while... good luck!
sheryl Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I'm not a great candidate for advice right now but wanted to say this. Your right, something is wrong. I think I'd first look at her life. work, kids, health, etc. If there isn't something there causing her to not have sexual interest then there is an issue with the relationship. People are all so different so it can be hard to say but I doubt it's you in the bedroom if she was fine with you before. Most importantly is when approaching to approach in a non attacking way I think. Don't use "you" and "your" or "me" and "my" but rather "us" perhaps?
2sure Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Put it on her. Stop trying to fix by yourself what you cannot. If you have done everything you can, been as open as you can, tell her this is now her problem to correct. Tell her you want her to initiate, tell her you want her to find out what the problem is...whether it involves seeing a medical doctor or a therapist. She needs to be proactive here. If she will not recognize the problem, even though the rest of your marriage is great, then you may have another issue that is not so easily addressed. Its great for spouses to be best friends, but without also being lovers...it isnt enough. You both require the connection of intimacy to carry the marriage through the crisis and rough spots that always come up. Even though the lack of intimacy may not be the ultimate deal breaker...that lack will make other future issues unsurmountable.
mem11363 Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) But ultimately the fuel that drives a marriage is the genuine desire to "please" your partner and it's twin sister the sincere desire to avoid causing your partner distress. If she felt BOTH she would actively work this problem with you. If she feels neither, then she will show you affection and do lots of other things that are nice purely because she feels like doing them. But she WON'T make the effort to teach you how to turn her on outside/inside the bedroom. Perhaps you can get her to fill out the love busters and love kindlers questionnaires. Clearly she does not feel lust - and you MAY be able to fix that. But lots of marriages have a lot of sex because the low drive partner has a desire to please their higher drive spouse AND the willingness to teach the HD spouse how to arouse them when they start out in neutral. The whole idea that sex is only a possibility when both people start out feeling "desire" is a long term bust and creates a lot of bad feelings. Sex is NOT optional to the degree you describe in a healthy marriage. I try to create as much lust as possible - staying fit - dressing nicely - being fun to be around and also being a bit combative/edgy (as W finds that hot - go figure). But more than half our sex life comes from her emotional desire to make me happy. And some years I would say that 80 to 90 percent of our sex came from that powerful "desire to please" driver. The saddest thing about this is the LD partner eventually leaves/cheats because THEY also want physical love - their partner is simply not assertive enough to insist on resolution. She isn't telling you something as her shut down came FIRST and your anger came SECOND. So why did she shut down INITIALLY? BTW - None of my male friends all of whom have some edge to them - would EVER describe a mostly sexless marriage as VERY happy. Not on their most generous day. A VERY happy marriage has passion and the connection that only comes from that special unique sexual bond.... the odd thing is, we are both very consistent about making sure the other knows how much they mean, and showing affection and what not, I have always been extremely confident as far as sex is concerned but after the last few years I feel like I have absolutely no clue what I am doing, I am fairly sure that it is something I am doing wrong, or a lot of little somethings I am doing wrong, but I have no idea how to get her to open up and tell me about it, or if she even consciously knows what the problem is. Edited August 24, 2010 by mem11363
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 There is no fix for this, unfortunately. Some women simply go off sex in a long term relationship, and nothing will rekindle the desire for sex (unless she has an affair, then it comes roaring back - but for someone else, unfortunately). You might see a temporary fix here and there which might get the sex going again, but it won't bring back her libido and things will simply die back down to where they were. I have a friend who is divorcing now over this very thing. He and his wife love each other, but after years of constant sexual rejection he simply could not and would not put up with it anymore and left. Those are your choices: 1. Manipulate her into more sex with threats/gameplaying 2. Cheat or divorce 3. Learn to live celibately I wish there were a way to restore lost libido but ask any man or lesbian in a long term relationship (where there is even a term for it: lesbian bed death), and you will find that there really is no long term or effective fix. It is a shame, and there are far too few 'dead libido' women who will provide their husbands with a full sex life simply because they love him and care about his needs. Most are of the mind that since sex isn't important to them, it isn't important at all, and they hope their husbands will simply 'get over it'.
giotto Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 There is no fix for this, unfortunately. Some women simply go off sex in a long term relationship, and nothing will rekindle the desire for sex (unless she has an affair, then it comes roaring back - but for someone else, unfortunately). You might see a temporary fix here and there which might get the sex going again, but it won't bring back her libido and things will simply die back down to where they were. I have a friend who is divorcing now over this very thing. He and his wife love each other, but after years of constant sexual rejection he simply could not and would not put up with it anymore and left. Those are your choices: 1. Manipulate her into more sex with threats/gameplaying 2. Cheat or divorce 3. Learn to live celibately I wish there were a way to restore lost libido but ask any man or lesbian in a long term relationship (where there is even a term for it: lesbian bed death), and you will find that there really is no long term or effective fix. It is a shame, and there are far too few 'dead libido' women who will provide their husbands with a full sex life simply because they love him and care about his needs. Most are of the mind that since sex isn't important to them, it isn't important at all, and they hope their husbands will simply 'get over it'. if you then condition her to hate sex by shouting at her when she refuses sex, then you have the double whammy...
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 if you then condition her to hate sex by shouting at her when she refuses sex, then you have the double whammy... Yes indeed. Nothing buries the libido even deeper than being yelled at over not having one. It is a lose/lose situation really. Being nice about it doesn't work, and neither does being mean about it.
Cee Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 As a first step, get sex out of the bedroom and into your everyday life. Forget the pressure of having to do the completed deed. Tease. Just a few ideas: The brain is the primary driver of desire. Stimulate it. -Sexting at random times of the day. -Talk dirty at the breakfast table. For a few moments. And then talk about the weather in a sultry way. -Brief touches & tastes at random times. Like right before friends visit. -5 minute phone call where you/she shares a fantasy. -Giggle over sexy stuff than is over the top. Maybe later, you'll try it. The point is to make her weak in the knees. Rekindle her fire and make yourself crazy. This is foreplay and flirting and should be fun. Encourage her to initiate this stuff b/c that will be more stimulating for her. I know this sounds hokey, but I wanted you to get more creative. Now, come up with some ideas of your own.
giotto Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 It is a lose/lose situation really. Being nice about it doesn't work, and neither does being mean about it. erm, yes, I know that very well myself...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 get out now or get a mistress and see how well that goes over with her..... Always the same comments.... Btw am worried about Lizzie60, who has disappeared from the site for 7 weeks now, who used to be in there stirring the "fall out of love" card....... Or can't bully or force her to have sex ( a given). Most depressing the "everything you do, she will associate with you wanting sex" which frankly is a given, isn't it????? These posts have become so depressing...... And now Giotto too is taking more and more of the blame for the problems in the bedroom....... When is it the woman's fault and she does something about it???
giotto Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 These posts have become so depressing...... And now Giotto too is taking more and more of the blame for the problems in the bedroom....... no, some of the blame, but it wasn't really my fault!
Hop_prophet Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 Wow, this is so similar to my situation and I feel for you. It feels almost like I'm paralyzed now and always second guessing myself. I feel like I tried a lot of things early on in our relationship and my gf never gave me much feedback but she certainly seemed to enjoy it then. We used to have sex 3 or 4 times a week but now its dwindled to almost nothing. She has said some really harsh things like she doesn't have desire for me anymore, things feel forced, and says I don't pay attention or "read her body language". Well the only body language I get from her is that she is uninterested. I used to try to initiate all the time and she constantly rejected me and then told me my advances don't turn her on. It is so difficult to be confident in bed when you've been told certain things. I can't really blame her though, at least she is being honest. But I can't understand why she is so negative about everything. Its like her body is off limits and I hear about it everytime I do something she doesn't like. She doesn't like oral, doesn't like to be touched this way or that way, says I kiss too much, feels uncomfortable with positions that I bring up, says she likes it rough but then complains when I get rough because she can sense I'm not turned on even though I am, etc.... I've lashed out and gotten angry just as you have and contributed to the problem but the frustration builds up and sometimes I just can't contain it. I don't know how to fix it and I just feel really uncomfortable making advances now when I can tell ahead of time that I am going to get rejected or my partner will just be going through the motions. I've tried going fairly long periods without mentioning it but that doesn't help either. I really question whether a relationship can ever survive this kind of thing.
giotto Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 Wow, this is so similar to my situation and I feel for you. It feels almost like I'm paralyzed now and always second guessing myself. I feel like I tried a lot of things early on in our relationship and my gf never gave me much feedback but she certainly seemed to enjoy it then. We used to have sex 3 or 4 times a week but now its dwindled to almost nothing. She has said some really harsh things like she doesn't have desire for me anymore, things feel forced, and says I don't pay attention or "read her body language". Well the only body language I get from her is that she is uninterested. I used to try to initiate all the time and she constantly rejected me and then told me my advances don't turn her on. It is so difficult to be confident in bed when you've been told certain things. I can't really blame her though, at least she is being honest. But I can't understand why she is so negative about everything. Its like her body is off limits and I hear about it everytime I do something she doesn't like. She doesn't like oral, doesn't like to be touched this way or that way, says I kiss too much, feels uncomfortable with positions that I bring up, says she likes it rough but then complains when I get rough because she can sense I'm not turned on even though I am, etc.... I've lashed out and gotten angry just as you have and contributed to the problem but the frustration builds up and sometimes I just can't contain it. I don't know how to fix it and I just feel really uncomfortable making advances now when I can tell ahead of time that I am going to get rejected or my partner will just be going through the motions. I've tried going fairly long periods without mentioning it but that doesn't help either. I really question whether a relationship can ever survive this kind of thing. I feel for you. It's very difficult to fix. I even threatened divorce and that worked for a while (wife saying she couldn't see her life without me, she loved me, etc.), she put some effort into it, but now it has slowly reverted to the old routine. I'm like paralysed around her, because it's difficult to deal with the rejections and I stopped trying. I don't want to get hurt anymore. I can only advise you to try MC and see where that takes you both...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 I feel for you. It's very difficult to fix. I even threatened divorce and that worked for a while (wife saying she couldn't see her life without me, she loved me, etc.), she put some effort into it, but now it has slowly reverted to the old routine. I'm like paralysed around her, because it's difficult to deal with the rejections and I stopped trying. I don't want to get hurt anymore. I can only advise you to try MC and see where that takes you both... Is there an answer at all? I am convinced that LS serve no more than a sounding board and a place to find like minded, or more so people in the same boat so we know we are not alone. I am shaking my head here, thinking things are much better in my situation, but I can feel the rumblings of resentment and still no answers from my spouse on how things could be even better.... But reading the above, no way I can complain at all.....
giotto Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 I am shaking my head here, thinking things are much better in my situation, but I can feel the rumblings of resentment and still no answers from my spouse on how things could be even better.... But reading the above, no way I can complain at all..... you are in a much better situation, but it's far from ideal and we just want a bit of happiness. I'm sure someone like Tara Maiden will turn up telling us to be happy for what we got. I want to be happy for what we had and not for the excuse of a marriage we have now. What's the point in staying married? Ah, yes, the kids...
Toodamnpragmatic Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) you are in a much better situation, but it's far from ideal and we just want a bit of happiness. I'm sure someone like Tara Maiden will turn up telling us to be happy for what we got. I want to be happy for what we had and not for the excuse of a marriage we have now. What's the point in staying married? Ah, yes, the kids... Taramaiden is off defending a man dragged into a polyamorous relationship with his wife of 20 years and trying to make the best of it..... She has ccl in her corner (and her support for swinging). Of course us closed minded people are left shaking our heads. While taramaiden will only tell us to accept it, we are still without Lizzie60 (and I am truly concerned for her wellbeing and saftey) as she is MIA, who goes one further and tells us they no longer love us and are turned off by the idea of sex with us. In my case I admit I want more than what was and is (and certainly know it is there from my spouse's past) as I am now older, more mature confident and knowledgeable. No I do not expect to be a 20 year old, but do expect to enjoy my life and that with my spouse going forward. My wife just told me it doesn't matter how good it is (and it has been), right now she would "rather drink a cup of bleach" then have sex..... And you wonder why us males are so damn confused..... On second thought good thing Lizzie60 is not around to set me straight..... Edited August 25, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
Maladjusted Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Misery loves company...so here I am! Yeah, I am in the same boat. If I am lucky I get it twice a month. I stopped trying a while ago. I got tired of feeling like I was begging for it.
xxoo Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 My wife just told me it doesn't matter how good it is (and it has been), right now she would "rather drink a cup of bleach" then have sex..... And you wonder why us males are so damn confused..... On second thought good thing Lizzie60 is not around to set me straight..... Ouch. That's harsh! I'm wondering about the words "right now". I sometimes feel this way, but can feel completely different after an hour to myself...or a decent night's sleep....or after having a good talk and hashing out a resentment that's been simmering between us. What is going on "right now"?
xxoo Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Yeah, I am in the same boat. If I am lucky I get it twice a month. I stopped trying a while ago. I got tired of feeling like I was begging for it. I think this is the ultimate challenge: she has to feel like she is "getting it". If the dynamic is she gives/you get, she'll see it as a chore. The last thing most women want is another chore.
Maladjusted Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 I think this is the ultimate challenge: she has to feel like she is "getting it". If the dynamic is she gives/you get, she'll see it as a chore. The last thing most women want is another chore. What would you suggest?
xxoo Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 What would you suggest? I don't know the details of your situation.... But if you generally have a good/warm relationship (no festering resentments to be addressed, no unbalanced workloads, no medical problems, addictions, etc), I suggest turning up the "flirting" while dialing back the pressure for sex. Touch her during the day when sex is not possible--right before leaving for work, for example. Pull her in for a full body hug and a nibble. Touch her like you did when you were dating--but then don't follow up with a request for sex. Let the desire build up and simmer in her for a while.
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