BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I have a friend who I have known since we were 7 years old, and have grown up to be totally different people but remained close friends. In recent years she has become extremely fanatical about God, she is a Christian and I am Agnostic. Anyways, I am growing increasingly uncomfortable by her constant talk about how to live life God's way and her saying if I don't repent I will go to hell. She points out things that are not evil in the slightest by my own moral code, things as simple as kissing before marriage (kissing is apparently bad because it is sexual). When I disagree with her, she says simply that not all opinions are valid and she knows hers is the only right way because it is the word of God. I have told her that I respect she has her own beliefs, but I need her to stop preaching to me and back off. If I do want to hear her advice I will ask but until then back off. I just got back from a roadtrip with her and some other friends, and I just feel like I don't ever want to see her again! She made me feel judged and patronised the whole trip for all sorts of nonsense. We were in a rush to check out (because she happens to be late for EVERYTHING and pushed our road trip schedule back half a day) and I accidentally broke a wine glass, and 30minutes before checkout (and before she had even packed her bags and eaten breakfast) she was standing there berating me for not humbly apologising to the hotel about the glass. And that if I didn't, God would frown upon me for being a "thief" and I would go to hell. I told her she was being pathetic and all that matters is the hotel would charge my credit card for it, end of story, no need to grovel for forgiveness ffs. I'm so fed up with her.
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Ok, so I guess what I am asking is, how do I continue this friendship and stop it from ending in a bad way?
Eeyore79 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 If another person doesn't share your religious beliefs, it's good manners to keep them to yourself, and your friend is clearly failing to display such good manners. She's being incredibly disrespectful by shoving her beliefs down your throat when you've already said you aren't interested. She needs to start treating you respectfully and leave religion out of your friendship; if she can't behave in a respectful way then you really need to end the friendship. I would question whether I would even want to be in a friendship with someone who can't respect my decision to not share their beliefs.
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 If another person doesn't share your religious beliefs, it's good manners to keep them to yourself, and your friend is clearly failing to display such good manners. She's being incredibly disrespectful by shoving her beliefs down your throat when you've already said you aren't interested. She needs to start treating you respectfully and leave religion out of your friendship; if she can't behave in a respectful way then you really need to end the friendship. I would question whether I would even want to be in a friendship with someone who can't respect my decision to not share their beliefs. Yes, I questioned whether or not it was worth staying friends with her. But I have known her for so long and it seems such a shame to end the friendship over it. It really has become very unpleasant to hang around her though.
stellaluna Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 How did you not punch her in the face by the end of the trip? You can't stay friends with her , her behavior is rubbish.
D-Lish Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I don't think you can remain friends with someone like this! Imagine if you spent the trip berating her for being stupid for believing that god exists? Imagine if you were that arrogant!!?
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 How did you not punch her in the face by the end of the trip? I sure felt like it. I did end up screaming at her though to get a move on (another 5 minutes of her piss farting around and we would've been hit with a late checkout fee on MY credit card, good thing there were no lines at reception). Imagine if you spent the trip berating her for being stupid for believing that god exists? Imagine if you were that arrogant!!? She tried to make peace with me by telling me she wasn't trying to be righteous and judgmental, but she knows hell is a bad place and she cares enough about me to not want me to go there. And she prays one day I will learn to accept God and his way and go to heaven. Heck, it's not God I'm not accepting, it's HER! Trying to tell me what I can and can't do! Pushing her ideas onto me and everyone else. So annoying. I tried to empathise with her (very hard thing for me to do) and she agreed with what I said, and said yah that's totally how she feels. But then I threw in the line "and if that is how you feel you have the right to think it, but don't push your ideas onto me" and again she said "your opinion is not valid". Ugh... sigh... bang head against wall. It's so weird that I still do want to stay friends with her, but perhaps the "closeness" we used to share no longer exists and it is getting harder for us to relate to each other.
Feelin Frisky Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Ok, so I guess what I am asking is, how do I continue this friendship and stop it from ending in a bad way? Your friend has become consumed by the license religious people take to be self-righteous and damning. I'm afraid it's just how it is and you can't do anything but feed and strengthen her air of ever-inflating superiority and contentiousness by engaging with her. They all want to be crucified for their devoutness and rise from the dead in glory. What horse pucky. You are sane and independent-minded. She is yielding, impulsive and inclined to find a platform for dominance. The sane thing to do is start getting used to the fact that religion can be "poison" and your friend has swallowed a lethal dose. Grieve the loss and recover. Do not get trapped in her wacky flypaper. You'll live (and maybe even get off the fence of agnosticism and step into the light of confirmed atheism like yours truly, Feelin Frisky )
SpanksTheMonkey Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Unless you plan on jumping on her holey bandwagon your just not going to "fit" into her life anymore. It can only get worse as she falls even deeper into the church the friendship is bound to end anyways bubble. Cause once she starts to hang out more with "her own kind" you know darn well they will tell her to "lose the sinner" in so many words. Thats why I shy away from hard core churchys in general if I can to clicky. Sorry to hear better to end it on your own terms I say..
blueyedgrl85 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Your friend should not be pushing her beliefs onto you. She is being judgmental and it isn't right. In order for this friendship to continue to thrive, you need to discuss how you feel with her- that if she were your true friend she would love and accept you the way you are. If she is unwilling to do this or accept it, then it might be time to re-evaluate the friendship or take it down a notch by limiting your time with her.
PBO Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 wow, have I seen this one before!!!! Steel Magnolias darryl hannah's character The best thing you can do is be her friend .. she'll grow up and you can always back away from her while she's acting nutty and tell her why! You's nutty girl!!!
TaraMaiden Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Can she change you? No. Can you change her? No. Oil and water dearest. You can do what you like to blend them, but they'll never mix, unless you add a surfactant. For her, that would be God. for you it would be her accepting that you aren't going to see it her way. In either case, it's not going to happen, is it? So the best way for this oil and water to go, is to stay separate. You need to distance yourself from her. And don't even think of trying to give her a reason. Because whatever the reason you give her, according to her current thinking, the Devil is turning your mind. Go the way of all endings on LoveShack: No Contact. It's the only way.
Citizen Erased Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Tara has it right, no contact. Anybody that believes your opinions are not valid are no longer a friend. Perhaps a hint that being arrogant and self serving isn't exactly the Lord's way is in order.
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Thanks for all the replies. Wow, from what you have all said, chances of the friendship lasting sure look grim... @ Frisky, I think you've got it spot on about how they use God as an excuse to be self-righteous and damning, except they do not like to admit their own behaviour. I turned this back on my friend today. I said if she is so passionate about leading a sin-free life and so adament that others should repent, then why did she continue to lie about getting ready to leave by a certain time but ending up late (every single time)? Yesterday morning she said she would pack her bags while we went swimming. When we came back, we found her fast asleep again in bed, nothing packed. When I questioned her about this, she said she feels terrible but God will forgive her. My thoughts are, why doesn't she just stop "sinning" when she can prevent it, if she cares so much after all?!! @Spanks, no way I'll join her bandwagon. She often mingles with other church-goers, but she has told me she doesn't feel close to them because she must always be on her best behaviour around them, whereas she is more comfortable around me because I don't care if she accidentally says a swear word. Too bad she can't accept me for my "sins" likewise. @blue, good idea. I don't want to completely end the friendship but I will distance myself from her for a while. @PBO, I had no idea what Steel Magnolias was and Darryl Hannah's character, so I googled it! Perhaps I'll watch it one day to look at the dynamics, if it really is similar to my situation.
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Can she change you? No. Can you change her? No. Wow Tara, this is almost exactly what I said to her during one of our conversations when we were both upset and I was trying to be reasonable by empathising with her and asking her to understand my point of view also. I told her that my reaction to her constant preaching and berating was human nature, no one wants to be told they are wrong all the time, and of course she will think she is right and so will I. I do realise I can't change her mindset, but I wanted her to stop attacking me for mine. Of course, she said my opinion was not valid. I really don't want to just end the friendship. It is hard. I have known her for 17 years now and she has been there for me in the past. It seems difficult too seeing as we have a mutual best friend and share other friends. I just wish we could get along without the issue of religion popping up all the time.
edgeofdarkness Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Look. People break up in relationships all the time, because people don't stay the same. if she was the same person she was 17 years ago, it would be fine, but she isn't and neither are you. Religion has been, still is, and always will be a deal-breaker even in conventional emotional marital relationships. You know - time and time again, you have learnt - there is no reasoning with her, because your 'reasons are not valid'. Not to her. She insists on pummelling you and beating you down with her fists of religious righteousness. If she was whanging you over the head with a metal skillet, you'd soon run a mile, wouldn't you? How is this any different??
TaraMaiden Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Word! Brilliant. I couldn't have put it any better, myself.
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Now I can better understand the difficulty people face with the "no contact" rule.
edgeofdarkness Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Word! Brilliant. I couldn't have put it any better, myself. not my words, i cut n pasted from another website, i thought it was such good advice i put it here, i changed some details names have been changed to protect the innocent lol, but yeah it is good.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Now I can better understand the difficulty people face with the "no contact" rule. Its hard bubble I'm going thu the same thing I recently had a good friendship end but now I realize looking back just how toxic it truly had become for me. Do I miss that person of course I've had to hold myself back from trying to save the friendship from time to time even. But then I just step back and think whats truly best for me at this point and I also think that its just a matter of time that a new maybe healthier friendship will come along its not going to be easy but nothing in life worth doing ever is... Far as the mutual friends thing thats hard unless they can truly respect your choice to delete her from your life then maybe they will have to go as well just see how you go 1st.
Author BubbleFreak Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Look. People break up in relationships all the time, because people don't stay the same. if she was the same person she was 17 years ago, it would be fine, but she isn't and neither are you. Religion has been, still is, and always will be a deal-breaker even in conventional emotional marital relationships. You know - time and time again, you have learnt - there is no reasoning with her, because your 'reasons are not valid'. Not to her. She insists on pummelling you and beating you down with her fists of religious righteousness. If she was whanging you over the head with a metal skillet, you'd soon run a mile, wouldn't you? How is this any different?? I've often read other people's threads and thought "duh, the solution is so obvious", but not until now that I am in the situation do I understand it's not that easy to follow through on something even if I know logically it's the best thing to do.
TaraMaiden Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 It's fear of loss. It's letting go, and knowing we're cutting ties. It's knowing that pretty much, it's irreversible, and will in all likelihood, never come again, and never be the same. We resist change, because habit is more comforting, even if we see and realise change is the better option, and the habit is detrimental. It's all we've known, so it's a familiarity we don't want to lose. You've heard the saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"... Well, guess what....? It IS broke. Ain't it?
PegNosePete Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 My ex had a friend like this. My ex was born Catholic but non-practising. We were living together, and her friend of about 15 years came to visit. She immediately started planning our wedding, and how I was going to be converted to Catholicism. After about half an hour of being polite out of respect for their friendship, I had had quite enough. She started talking about how an image of the virgin Mary had once been seen nearby, so I told her about the ghost of Henry VIII that had allegedly been spotted in the town centre. Funnily enough she left soon after. My ex never spoke to her again. If you met her for the first time today, or on the road trip, would you be friends? NO! So... why carry it on? People come and go in everyone's life. You need to let go and move on.
freestyle Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Next time she starts preaching at you you could respond with this.... "Judge not, lest ye yourself be judged.." OR "let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." Or you could just walk away, and hope someday she'll learn to respect the rights of others to believe whatever they wish.Until she does, you're setting yourself up for more frustration and condescension from her. Who needs that? I've gotten into these debates with militant religious types before---it's an exercise in futility----you may as well bang your head on a brick wall. It's like trying to talk to a six year old with their fingers in their ears saying,"La-la-la-la, I CAN'T hear you!!!!"
vintagecat Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) I'm sorry. You have lost a friend for the time being or for life. You can't reason with her and you can't be seen by her as reasonable. There is no agreeing to disagree with fanaticism. It's not in a zealot's nature to be willing or able to check their premise's. Quote her the following piece of scripture and have her be done with it gently: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Cor. 6:14, KJV). If you want to leave your door open to her, then do so if you can. I have an advanced degree in this issue as my parents joined a Christian cult when I was in my teens in the mid 70s. Fortunately a cult leader told my parents it was "too late" for me and my sister during an intervention and therefore mostly ended the hell on earth of them trying to convert us day and night. It took just shy of 15 years, their ruined finances and a fully fractured family for them to see the light, that they were being used and controlled by people that didn't have their best interests at heart but they missed so much of life being wrapped up in that group. Again I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Trust me hanging on and trying to reason, argue or plead out your case will do no good. Let her go to God. Edited August 24, 2010 by vintagecat
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