Wanting what you can't have...

[Star Gazer]

Simple inquiry here, which I hope will evolve into a deeper conversation:

 

When it comes to romantic relationships, do you believe people want what they can't have? Why/why not?

[Yamaha]

For me, I never see a point in wanting something/someone I can't obtain.

 

I respect marriage/relationships of others so I would not cross the line or try to undermine for my gain.

 

Are you referring to a sexual interest, as in "desiring someone who doesn't desire you back"?

[Star Gazer]

Are you referring to a sexual interest, as in "desiring someone who doesn't desire you back"?

 

Not necessarily, but I wouldn't exclude it. I just mean "interest" (of whatever romantic type that is) or increasing interest/desire, based on the notion that you want what you think you can't have.

 

A male friend of mine has accused me of this several times over the years. I tend to disagree, as I typically only find myself interested in men who are interested as well. But of course there's always the guy here and there who lays out bait, I bite, and then who changes his tune slightly and behaves as though he's not interested (with me never knowing if he really is or isn't) and I eat it up. But if that same guy had acted uninterested from the get-go, I wouldn't have given him a second thought. Does that make sense?

 

I'm trying to change my perspective, but in order to do that I have to figure out the underlying WHY. Hmm.

[Cracker Jack]

I believe this is true for some people, but obviously not all.

 

I'm guessing it's because they'd probably see it as an accomplishment if they somehow obtained it. I know many who've cheated simply because they wanted what they couldn't have, even though what they had was clearly better.

[hydorclops]

You might not have some kind of conflict. Wanting stuff because you can't have it is neurotic, probably not too common.

 

Seems normal to be attracted to someone that is nice or is showing interest. Because they showed interest and despite the fact that they stopped.

[AverageJoe]

I cant speak for everyone, but as a man I know women similar to you, Star. In fact I know a girl right now as we speak that is pining for us to go out, we met through mutual friends. I have no interest in her and told her from the very start (she has short hair not my thing) I told her straight up, that very reason. Yet, she constantly called and texted me until I told her, enough. Lay off, you are starting to act like a stage five clinger.

I gave her the reason I wasnt interested right up front, no question about it but she still wants to hook up. Why the hell would you after I said I wasnt interested?

 

This has happend more than once and it is a very interesting concept no question. Especially if they are really hot. Maybe they are used to getting their way?

I dont really know the answer to that but it has to be some kind of personality development. Maybe she thinks she is missing out something, I dont know.

I have always termed it the forbidden fruit syndrom.

 

I have seen men do this too and its disgusting, very hard to watch.

[Star Gazer]

I cant speak for everyone, but as a man I know women similar to you, Star. In fact I know a girl right now as we speak that is pining for us to go out, we met through mutual friends. I have no interest in her and told her from the very start (she has short hair not my thing) I told her straight up, that very reason. Yet, she constantly called and texted me until I told her, enough. Lay off, you are starting to act like a stage five clinger.

I gave her the reason I wasnt interested right up front, no question about it but she still wants to hook up. Why the hell would you after I said I wasnt interested?

 

Oh wow. I'm NOTHING like the girl you're talking about. Note that I said there will be some behaviors that make me question whether there's interest, not outright telling me there's not! LOL

 

For example, a guy can be into me, courting, etc., and then say he doesn't respond to a phone call for a couple days. Or acts evasive, which might make me think that maybe he's starting to date someone else. THAT's what I eat up, and start finding myself MORE interested. If he were to outright tell me he's not interested, I'd lose ALL interest and certainly wouldn't keep trying!!! That's just straight pathetic!!

[carhill]

IMO, everyone is different, however, most of us, at least in the US, have been socialized to go after what we desire and compete with other humans and win, whether that be in business, at sports, politically, socially or when mating. That psychology likely is a strong counter to hearing or perceiving 'can't have'. Sensing that dynamic is a challenge to our ego.

 

Myself, wrt romance, if I have no emotional attachment, I can easily accept what I 'can't have' because that's my psychology. I find another path. The sticky wicket occurs when I'm led down the garden path to believe one thing and, out of that belief, attachment grows, and *then* the 'neener, neener, you can't have it' gets tossed in my face. This, in repeated instances, when younger, created unhealthy want where there should have been none. During those same periods, normal rejection of what I wanted (e.g. women I was attracted to) produced no such residual wants or desires. So, for myself, it's the emotional attachment which creates the risk for what I believe is unhealthy desire for the unavailable, inappropriate or unattainable.

 

I saw more evidence of this when divorcing. I saw clearly that stbx did not wish to be married to me anymore, and she did nothing to lead me to believe otherwise. I could accept that rejection, saddened of course for the loss of what we had. I didn't see it as a 'challenge' to 'win her back', believing if she wanted that, her actions and words would have shown it, as mine did when we were in MC.

 

Well, that's my version. Good luck with the survey

[Confused100]

The way you initially phrased it, "Wanting what you can't have..." is a little ambiguous. I think we have to distinguish between two different things:

 

1) Wanting something because you can't have it.

2) Wanting something for other reasons, e.g. I want to go out with girl A because she has qualities X, Y, Z that I find attractive. However, she doesn't feel the same way about me. Just because she said no doesn't mean I will stop wanting her over night, especially if it's someone I've known for a while.

 

If we formalise it, it's extremely clear how they're different:

 

P: I want girl A

Q: I can't have girl A

R: Girl A has qualities X, Y, Z that I find attractive

 

1) Q --> P [if I can't have girl A, then I want girl A]

2) Q & ( R --> P ) [i can't have girl A but if girl A has qualities X, Y, Z that I find attractive then I want girl A]

 

I'm guessing you mean the former. I'm no psychologist, but Cracker Jack's hypothesis sounds plausible. Based on your last post, it seems like you're asking about a less extreme form of 1. In what you described, it's not so much that you can't have the guy, it's that aloofness spawns greater desire.

[AverageJoe]

Oh wow. I'm NOTHING like the girl you're talking about. Note that I said there will be some behaviors that make me question whether there's interest, not outright telling me there's not! LOL

 

For example, a guy can be into me, courting, etc., and then say he doesn't respond to a phone call for a couple days. Or acts evasive, which might make me think that maybe he's starting to date someone else. THAT's what I eat up, and start finding myself MORE interested. If he were to outright tell me he's not interested, I'd lose ALL interest and certainly wouldn't keep trying!!! That's just straight pathetic!!

 

Yeah it is a bit pathetic.

 

As I said, that wasnt the only time this has happend. And I wasnt accusing you of that behavior at all, just an example

It has also happend with people I am actually interested in. And I will be honest about it, I play it to my advantage every chance I get. Women constantly test men, I do it as well.

 

Some women sit and drive themselves nuts about it, when will he call, yeah he will call, then on to why hasnt he called me?? This is when you start to internalize it, thats when you may start questioning yourself and wondering whats wrong with you. Maybe I was dressed funny that day, maybe my hair wasnt right. Did I say something wrong? OMG what if I had a booger hanging off my nose.

 

Not all women do this of course and this is only an example I am providing. When this happens I can normally spot it and it only builds the mystery.

[Star Gazer]

Okay, so I think I may have phrased MY particular question too harshly.

 

Let me rephrase. What is it about someone slightly withdrawing, which inspires more desire?

[lso802]

I only want to go after what I want. Just because I can't have something, it doesn't make me want it.

 

Currently, I'm very focused on my studies and resolved not to seriously date anyone. Because of that, I've had girls flock to me like I'm the hottest thing walking around on campus or something. Note: I'm not. I'm average. But I have a feeling that as soon as I'm available, they won't be as interested.

[AverageJoe]

Currently, I'm very focused on my studies and resolved not to seriously date anyone.

 

Very smart. No reason to be in a relationship when you are at your age, none. Keep your focus.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I have been accused of that and it is human nature to some extent.

 

To get interested in a guy, he has to show interest in me. Maybe it wasn't the case when I was 15, but it has been for a long time.

 

The tricky part comes that when soon after, his interest fades and I am already hooked. I can hold on for a LONG time trying to get his initial interest back. I can logically see all the signs that he is not as interested as I am but still try really hard (and inevitably fail). Typically, I will get mixed signals at these times rather than blatant disinterest.

 

If I get blatant consistent disinterest even for a short while, I will lose interest quickly.

 

I wouldn't say I get more hooked on a guy that withdrew his interest somewhat compared to the same guy who still showed consistent interest. If anything, my interest will increase in the second scenario and slowly wither and die in the first. It's just that in the first scenario I already got attached (and I can get invested quickly!) and that can be hard to let go of. I will also act more "desperate" in the first scenario as to prevent losing the guy completely. That is the absolute worst thing you can do to a guy that is withdrawing.

Edited August 22, 2010 by SadandConfusedWA

[Star Gazer]

I have been accused of that and it is human nature to some extent.

 

To get interested in a guy, he has to show interest in me. Maybe it wasn't the case when I was 15, but it has been for a long time.

 

The tricky part comes that when soon after, his interest fades and I am already hooked. I can hold on for a LONG time trying to get his initial interest back. I can logically see all the signs that he is not as interested as I am but still try really hard (and inevitably fail). Typically, I will get mixed signals at these times rather than blatant disinterest.

 

If I get blatant consistent disinterest even for a short while, I will lose interest quickly.

 

I wouldn't say I get more hooked on a guy that withdrew his interest somewhat compared to the same guy who still showed consistent interest. If anything, my interest will increase in the second scenario and slowly wither and die in the first. It's just that in the first scenario I already got attached (and I can get invested quickly!) and that can be hard to let go of. I will also act more "desperate" in the first scenario as to prevent losing the guy completely. That is the absolute worst thing you can do to a guy that is withdrawing.

 

You totally get what I'm saying.

 

But why do we do this? If we can get to the why, we can change it.

[shadowplay]

Oh wow. I'm NOTHING like the girl you're talking about. Note that I said there will be some behaviors that make me question whether there's interest, not outright telling me there's not! LOL

 

For example, a guy can be into me, courting, etc., and then say he doesn't respond to a phone call for a couple days. Or acts evasive, which might make me think that maybe he's starting to date someone else. THAT's what I eat up, and start finding myself MORE interested. If he were to outright tell me he's not interested, I'd lose ALL interest and certainly wouldn't keep trying!!! That's just straight pathetic!!

 

I don't understand this mentality. I think I felt this way when I was really young maybe. But in the last few years if a guy shows any clear indication of low interest I immediately lose mine. In fact my whole opinion of him drops a bit. If he can't recognize that I'm a cool person, then he probably isn't worth getting to know.

[shadowplay]

I have been accused of that and it is human nature to some extent.

 

To get interested in a guy, he has to show interest in me. Maybe it wasn't the case when I was 15, but it has been for a long time.

 

The tricky part comes that when soon after, his interest fades and I am already hooked. I can hold on for a LONG time trying to get his initial interest back. I can logically see all the signs that he is not as interested as I am but still try really hard (and inevitably fail). Typically, I will get mixed signals at these times rather than blatant disinterest.

 

If I get blatant consistent disinterest even for a short while, I will lose interest quickly.

 

I wouldn't say I get more hooked on a guy that withdrew his interest somewhat compared to the same guy who still showed consistent interest. If anything, my interest will increase in the second scenario and slowly wither and die in the first. It's just that in the first scenario I already got attached (and I can get invested quickly!) and that can be hard to let go of. I will also act more "desperate" in the first scenario as to prevent losing the guy completely. That is the absolute worst thing you can do to a guy that is withdrawing.

 

OK, this I can relate to. If a guy shows initial strong interest, and then it fades a bit or becomes more mixed, I can stay pretty hooked.

Edited August 22, 2010 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

The weird thing is if I get blatant disinterest from a crush, not only does my interest disappear but I'm somehow able to instantly delete the guy from my brain. The rejection stings, but the guy himself disappears within a few hours. I no longer feel anything for him or even think of him. Sometimes I even forget the details of what he looks like, and I'm typically excellent at remembering visual details, faces in particular. I can go from fantasizing about a guy for weeks/months on end, to thinking nothing of him like that. It's like my brain refused to even to go there, because it knows it would hurt too much.

 

The disappointing thing is I have a lot of trouble applying the same coping mechanism to someone when there's a deeper emotional attachment and investment. If somebody I love breaks up with me, I have a hell of a time letting go and accepting it.

[Star Gazer]

I don't understand this mentality. I think I felt this way when I was really young maybe. But in the last few years if a guy shows any clear indication of low interest I immediately lose mine. In fact my whole opinion of him drops a bit. If he can't recognize that I'm a cool person, then he probably isn't worth getting to know.

 

Um, it's the same exact thing as what SaCWA described. Getting hooked by interest, and remaining hanging on once his interest seems to have dropped. You agree with her, but not with me. Not surprising, but whatevs.

[shadowplay]

Um, it's the same exact thing as what SaCWA described. Getting hooked by interest, and remaining hanging on once his interest seems to have dropped. You agree with her, but not with me. Not surprising, but whatevs.

 

I reread what you wrote, and missed that part.

[SadandConfusedWA]

You totally get what I'm saying.

 

But why do we do this? If we can get to the why, we can change it.

 

That's a million dollar question Star. But honestly, I think it's pretty common among women.

[SadandConfusedWA]

BTW Star, do you go in a semi-chasing mode once the guy you are dating starts withdrawing? (I know I do )

 

If not, how do you act?

[shadowplay]

I have some questions for other people who struggle with this problem.

 

When the mixed signals start do you believe that their interest has actually dropped or are you in denial/confused?

 

Is your respect for the guy affected by the change in his behavior?

 

My answers:

 

It used to be the case when I was less experienced that I was sincerely confused by mixed signals and gave the guy the benefit of the doubt. It's partly that I'd talk to other well-meaning people close to me like friends and family, and they'd all say variations of, "I'm sure he's still interested. He's probably just busy." At some point I realized, no these guys just aren't interested. But the weird thing is it doesn't make a difference if I'm attached. I can know he's not interested, and still want to win him over. Maybe it's some sort of control thing, but it's not healthy.

 

In answer to the second question meanwhile my respect for the guy takes a nosedive, partly because I feel like it's a ****ty thing to string somebody along. Yet remarkably I'm still eager to gain his affection.

[shadowplay]

That's a million dollar question Star. But honestly, I think it's pretty common among women.

 

I can't speak for others, but for me I think it's a control thing related to my abandonment issues. As I wrote above, I no longer respect the guy, so it's no longer about him so much as it is about avoiding rejection.

[shadowplay]

That's a million dollar question Star. But honestly, I think it's pretty common among women.

 

It's common among all animals:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement