Sex with my best friend

[Julian45]

Ten years ago a good friend of mine met a really nice woman, Helen, and they started dating. She soon became a very good friend of mine. She subsequently left the original boyfriend and started seeing another friend of mine, Mark. The three of us have been really good pals for a long time.

Helen is somewhat independent and generally prefers male company. She and I developed a very close friendship. She's a very attractive woman, intelligent, funny, spontaneous and good fun to be with. I have always fancied her but known that she doesn't fancy me but really likes my company and over the years we've spent a great deal of time together.

Mark is a super guy, he rarely gets cross or angry, is very level headed and patient, kind and understanding.

 

I've always believed that Mark is the perfect partner for Helen. She has quite pronounced mood swings and can display a lot of anger sometimes. He tends to be able to deal very well with this and also gives her the independence she needs.

 

Quite recently she decided to start a business. I gave her a lot of assistance and we worked together closely for around six months. The process was stressful and we would argue and fight sometimes but we would always get over these problems.

 

One evening a few months ago he dropped her off at my house, she just wanted to hang out and have a few drinks. Mark went home with their little boy to put him to bed. She and I drank a few bottles of wine and played music and chatted. We did this sort of thing a lot. Anyhow on this particular evening things got out of hand. We were both very drunk and my memory is vague regarding how things started but at some point in the evening we kissed and the next moment there was underwear strewn about the room and we had sex for hours in a wild lusty manner.

She didn't go home that night. Mark was on the phone at 6.30 the following morning. I made the excuse that we had got drunk and she'd passed out on the sofa. This had never happened before.

 

Mark was clearly suspicious but didn't say so. Helen and I spoke the next day and agreed that we had been very silly and we would never do it again and never mention anything.

 

Helen and I continued to develop her business and a couple of months later a small group of people who were involved needed to stay at a remote house in the countryside. The work we did was concluded in a week and the rest of the team left and drove home. It got late and Helen and I decided to do the long drive home the following day.

I was very tired and went to bed early. She stayed up for a couple of hours and drank quite a bit. She then came up to my room and got in my bed. If I didn't find her so attractive it would've been easy to say no as I was sober and tired, but I just couldn't resist and we ended up having sex again.

 

A few days later we got drunk at my house and ended up having sex until the daybreak. She didn't go home and though nothing was said Mark was now fully aware of the infidelity that was going on.

 

A day or two later I told her that we must stop doing this.

Neither of us have said anything to Mark but I know he's not stupid and it's very obvious that we have behaved badly.

 

A few days later Helen stopped answering my calls. In fact she was now totally blanking me. Mark on the other hand is still my buddy and we hang out several times a month.

 

Everytime I see him I feel utterly dreadful. He's my lovely friend of 30 years and I have betrayed his trust in the most dreadful of ways. When we hang out it's like there is a massive elephant in the room, this dreadful thing that we both know about but can't talk about.

I feel disgusted with myself. I put the unity of my best friend's family at risk. I have seriously wronged someone I love. I really thought I was a better person than that. My feelings of self worth have gone down the toilet.

 

Mark and Helen seem to be carrying on as normal.

Mark and I are pretending everything is ok.

Helen won't acknowledge me in any way and actively avoids any social situations where we might meet.

I have insulted one of my best friends. I have lost the friendship of Helen. I have insulted my own integrity.

 

Anyone out there experienced this sort of thing? I don't know what to do. Should I talk to Mark? Should I attempt a reconciliation with Helen? We have been great pals for 10 years and it's dreadful to think that we can never be friends again.

 

If any one who reads this is thinking about bonking a friend who is in a relationship with another friend DON'T DO IT. A few hours of fun isn't worth a lifetime of regret, pain and emotional disharmony.

 

About 2 months later...

 

Mark and I recently spent some really good quality time together and it has become clear that he forgives me for this awful transgression.

 

I continue to feel desperate to reconcile with Helen but haven't got a clue how to go about it. I think Mark will encourage reconciliation and I'll probably seek his advice on that.

 

Any comments or advice gratefully recieved.

[Distant78]

Ten years ago a good friend of mine met a really nice woman, Helen, and they started dating. She soon became a very good friend of mine. She subsequently left the original boyfriend and started seeing another friend of mine, Mark. The three of us have been really good pals for a long time.

Helen is somewhat independent and generally prefers male company. She and I developed a very close friendship. She's a very attractive woman, intelligent, funny, spontaneous and good fun to be with. I have always fancied her but known that she doesn't fancy me but really likes my company and over the years we've spent a great deal of time together.

Mark is a super guy, he rarely gets cross or angry, is very level headed and patient, kind and understanding.

 

I've always believed that Mark is the perfect partner for Helen. She has quite pronounced mood swings and can display a lot of anger sometimes. He tends to be able to deal very well with this and also gives her the independence she needs.

 

Quite recently she decided to start a business. I gave her a lot of assistance and we worked together closely for around six months. The process was stressful and we would argue and fight sometimes but we would always get over these problems.

 

One evening a few months ago he dropped her off at my house, she just wanted to hang out and have a few drinks. Mark went home with their little boy to put him to bed. She and I drank a few bottles of wine and played music and chatted. We did this sort of thing a lot. Anyhow on this particular evening things got out of hand. We were both very drunk and my memory is vague regarding how things started but at some point in the evening we kissed and the next moment there was underwear strewn about the room and we had sex for hours in a wild lusty manner.

She didn't go home that night. Mark was on the phone at 6.30 the following morning. I made the excuse that we had got drunk and she'd passed out on the sofa. This had never happened before.

 

Mark was clearly suspicious but didn't say so. Helen and I spoke the next day and agreed that we had been very silly and we would never do it again and never mention anything.

 

Helen and I continued to develop her business and a couple of months later a small group of people who were involved needed to stay at a remote house in the countryside. The work we did was concluded in a week and the rest of the team left and drove home. It got late and Helen and I decided to do the long drive home the following day.

I was very tired and went to bed early. She stayed up for a couple of hours and drank quite a bit. She then came up to my room and got in my bed. If I didn't find her so attractive it would've been easy to say no as I was sober and tired, but I just couldn't resist and we ended up having sex again.

 

A few days later we got drunk at my house and ended up having sex until the daybreak. She didn't go home and though nothing was said Mark was now fully aware of the infidelity that was going on.

 

A day or two later I told her that we must stop doing this.

Neither of us have said anything to Mark but I know he's not stupid and it's very obvious that we have behaved badly.

 

A few days later Helen stopped answering my calls. In fact she was now totally blanking me. Mark on the other hand is still my buddy and we hang out several times a month.

 

Everytime I see him I feel utterly dreadful. He's my lovely friend of 30 years and I have betrayed his trust in the most dreadful of ways. When we hang out it's like there is a massive elephant in the room, this dreadful thing that we both know about but can't talk about.

I feel disgusted with myself. I put the unity of my best friend's family at risk. I have seriously wronged someone I love. I really thought I was a better person than that. My feelings of self worth have gone down the toilet.

 

Mark and Helen seem to be carrying on as normal.

Mark and I are pretending everything is ok.

Helen won't acknowledge me in any way and actively avoids any social situations where we might meet.

I have insulted one of my best friends. I have lost the friendship of Helen. I have insulted my own integrity.

 

Anyone out there experienced this sort of thing? I don't know what to do. Should I talk to Mark? Should I attempt a reconciliation with Helen? We have been great pals for 10 years and it's dreadful to think that we can never be friends again.

 

If any one who reads this is thinking about bonking a friend who is in a relationship with another friend DON'T DO IT. A few hours of fun isn't worth a lifetime of regret, pain and emotional disharmony.

 

About 2 months later...

 

Mark and I recently spent some really good quality time together and it has become clear that he forgives me for this awful transgression.

 

I continue to feel desperate to reconcile with Helen but haven't got a clue how to go about it. I think Mark will encourage reconciliation and I'll probably seek his advice on that.

 

Any comments or advice gratefully recieved.

 

Is this a troll?

[Julian45]

No I am not a troll. I am someone who slept with a good friend and the act of doing so potentially ruined the friendship forever.

 

She is undoubtedly one of most engaging, interesting and fun people I have ever had the pleasure of befriending.

 

Over the last ten years we've spent loads of quality time together and I am desperate to put the recent series of mistakes behind us and rekindle a fine friendship.

 

Can't understand why you might think I'm a troll.

 

To those who might reply to this post, please don't if you aren't going to offer something honest and constructive.

 

All genuine replies gratefully recieved.

[carhill]

Tell me about your interactions with Helen's female friends, which she evidently has few of. What was your take on their relationships? Something sounds familiar about this.

 

I need to do an orbiter theory journal. This sounds like an orbiter dynamic.

[Julian45]

Hi Carhill,

 

It's true Hele doesn't have many female friends. Those that she does have she doesn't spend a great deal of time with.

 

I have enjoyed good quality friendships with Helen's female friends, especially the ones that I have spent the most time with.

 

Most of Helen's female friends are in a relationship themselves, some married with children. I tend to have good relations with them and their spouses. Nothing that is remotely sexual though, strictly friendship only.

 

Btw, what is an orbiter dynamic?

[carhill]

I was talking about Helen's relationships with her female friends.

 

Orbiter dynamic is when a women uses her powers of sex to orbit men around her, having largely male 'friends', and plays them off each other, using them for her specific purposes of the moment and then placing them back in orbit when finished.

 

Generally, such a woman will have few female friends because it's difficult for her to connect with a same-sex person on an emotional level. In such a circumstance, of course assuming hetero preferences, there is no 'draw' and hence no power differential.

 

IMO, and I've lived a bit of this, I'd proceed with solidifying a new relationship with your long-time male friend and leave Helen to her path in life. She'll be fine

[Distant78]

Too many details to comment on, but i'll just say I think you should leave Helen and Mark alone and establish NC between them. I don't believe a solid friendship can be made after what you did to him, to be blunt. You say how much of a friend he is, yet you still shoved your way into their relationship, and in the process, destroyed yours with both of them. The part that really trips me out is when Mark dropped off Helen at your house. WTF?!?!!?!?! Just let both of them be. Too much damage.

[Julian45]

I was talking about Helen's relationships with her female friends.

 

Orbiter dynamic is when a women uses her powers of sex to orbit men around her, having largely male 'friends', and plays them off each other, using them for her specific purposes of the moment and then placing them back in orbit when finished.

 

Generally, such a woman will have few female friends because it's difficult for her to connect with a same-sex person on an emotional level. In such a circumstance, of course assuming hetero preferences, there is no 'draw' and hence no power differential.

 

IMO, and I've lived a bit of this, I'd proceed with solidifying a new relationship with your long-time male friend and leave Helen to her path in life. She'll be fine

 

 

Helen has the type of personality whereby other females tend to think she is great, interesting and lots of fun. Other females can't stand her and stay away.

 

Helen tends to have lots and lots of people in her network, but very few people that are really close. I am one of those few people.

 

She is very attractive (to some) but I have rarely seen her flirt with anybody including men that she finds attractive. Whenever I have made flirty remarks she has been quick to pour cold water on them. An outside observer may get the impression that she has a lowish sex drive.

 

She is definately hetero.

 

I'm certain that Mark and I will continue to be great friends. Helen is also a long term friend (as are most of my friends). Though my recent actions contradict this, I place a huge amount of value on real friendships. Helen has been a very real friend and the thought of losing that is torturing my soul at the moment.

 

I have always and continue to fancy her (even though I know that we would never find happiness as partners). Being a very close friend has been a more than acceptable second best.

[Julian45]

Too many details to comment on, but i'll just say I think you should leave Helen and Mark alone and establish NC between them. I don't believe a solid friendship can be made after what you did to him, to be blunt. You say how much of a friend he is, yet you still shoved your way into their relationship, and in the process, destroyed yours with both of them. The part that really trips me out is when Mark dropped off Helen at your house. WTF?!?!!?!?! Just let both of them be. Too much damage.

 

I am leaving Mark and Helen to their own thing. I was a good friend of Marks and a good friend of Helens before they got together and in fairness I have never tried to shove my way in there, in fact it's been Helen who has regularly turned up at my house for a coffee or called me to suggest that we go for a bite to eat or a trip to the shops.

 

Mark is a very compassionate man and has forgiven me for my trespasses. That might seem odd but is the truth of the matter.

[PortuguesePrincess80]

I am leaving Mark and Helen to their own thing. I was a good friend of Marks and a good friend of Helens before they got together and in fairness I have never tried to shove my way in there, in fact it's been Helen who has regularly turned up at my house for a coffee or called me to suggest that we go for a bite to eat or a trip to the shops.

 

Mark is a very compassionate man and has forgiven me for my trespasses. That might seem odd but is the truth of the matter.

 

 

Really? Have you and Mark sat down and talked about this or are you just "assuming" he knows and has kind of forgiven you? Sounds like he's just trying to sweep it under the rug...or he seriously doesnt really know as to what extent you and Helen actually went to. She may have said you guys just kissed or something to undermine that you guys have had sex on more than one occassion.

 

Either way..I would not try to get involved with them as this can and will eventually blow up in your face. You seem to be in the clear at this point..but at any given time she may fess up..and then and only then will you have to deal with your of so compassionate friend Mark I find it hard to believe that you being really close buds with this guy..and doing his wife..would he let you off the hook so to speak.

[carhill]

Thanks for that.

 

I was more interested in the dynamic of Helen's female friendships (the emotional closeness) as opposed to whether women liked her or not. My ex-wife has close female friends, those she called nearly every day, hugged and kissed in person and shared her 'female' life with. So do nearly all my male friend's wives. They have wider circles of acquaintances, but their close friends are the same gender.

 

Regarding the methodologies of generating orbiters, a woman *does not* have to flirt or be overtly sexual in any demonstrative way, or dress provocatively; she merely has to send out 'signals' of generalized desire and openness to sexual approach. I see this all the time and watch men respond to it.

 

As to the specifics of your OP, Mark is the pivotal player here. He's your long-time friend. Apparently, he is aware of the circumstances with you and Helen, if I read things right, or at least that he knows she's been unfaithful. They're not married with children IIUC, so no family units are being destroyed. You're all in your 40's-50's I presume, so are fully formed adults who can take this difficult situation and move on from it. If Mark is willing to move forward, I think that's good information and a great example.

 

BTW, I had a married woman 'approach' me a couple of times and behave in a manner I doubt her husband would have appreciated. I recently had dinner with them, spent most of my time with the husband and could see she was still a bit ambivalent to have me around, though handled it well. Like yourself, long history. She's my best friend's daughter. At the time I was approached, I could have breached my boundary, as you did with Helen, but I chose a different path. All that means is that I learned something from the affair which essentially caused my wife to become stbx. Life lessons. We're never too old to learn. Thanks for sharing

[You Go Girl]

That first time, passionate drunken sex was questionable as to whether her faculties were intact. But the choice to slide into bed with you the second time? Not falling for it. This Helen is a repeat offender. She has more than likely cheated on Mark with men that you don't realize, and are probably standing there talking to them sometimes, oblivious to the fact.

Mark knows deep down the way Helen is. That is why he stays mute. He knows to own the truth is to have to let her go for self-respect and dignity. So Mark also, is weak.

You, on the other hand, are just sexually weak, and appear, at least from my gullible reading mind, to not have the manipulative tactics that Helen has mastered, unless you've purposely left those crunchy little croutons out of this salad story.

Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT become Helen's friend even on an acquaintance level until you no longer lust for her, unless your desire is the thrill of the thickening plot of muck. BTW, you do realize that to lust is a choice?

Classic Femme Fatal.

Edited August 22, 2010 by You Go Girl

[Julian45]

Hi Carhill, thanks for your considered replies

 

Helen doesn't often exhibit strong emotional closeness with her female friends and she definately doesn't have a particular female friend that she calls daily or even weekly. Fact is, outside of her relationship with Mark, I have been her closest friend and the person she shares her problems with and confides with.

 

She is very good at forming assocations and networking with people of both sexes who are interesting especially if they're connected to the events/music industry, though I haven't witnessed anything I would describe as 'signals' of generalized desire and openness to sexual approach.

 

Mark is definately a pivotal player here. Helen and I went through a tricky period with our friendship a couple of years ago and Mark played a role in helping our friendship recover.

 

Neither Helen nor I have said anything to Mark but he is definately aware that infidelity has taken place over a short period of time. She has never been unfaithful to Mark in the past and if she and I have been out somewhere while he looks after their son she always returns to the family home at the end of the evening even if it's 3 or 4am.

 

In the past, when it's late and we've been drinking and having a laugh she has occasionally looked at me in a way to suggest 'would you like to make a move'. When this has happened I have always brought the evening to a close and called her a cab or something like that.

 

They aren't married but have been together for about seven years, they have one adopted boy. Mark and I are in mid 40's, Helen is late 30s. A family unit could've been damaged and I feel ashamed about that and until this happened I would never have believed I was capably of doing such a thing. My integrity is not what I thought it was, I like to make a positive contribution to the people I love and befriend. Sadly my attraction to Helen and her fleeting desire for 'something different' allowed me to breach my own boundaries. Shame on me!

 

Life lessons, indeed! I really didn't see this coming and what a lesson it has been. I just hope that it is not at the cost of losing Helen's friendship. I am very prepared have a several months of no contact with Helen and leave her to rebuild things with Mark but the thought of losing her permanently is extremely distressing.

 

I really have no clue as to how long to leave her alone before attempting to reconnect with her and no clue as to how to approach the situation.

[Distant78]

Really? Have you and Mark sat down and talked about this or are you just "assuming" he knows and has kind of forgiven you? Sounds like he's just trying to sweep it under the rug...or he seriously doesnt really know as to what extent you and Helen actually went to. She may have said you guys just kissed or something to undermine that you guys have had sex on more than one occassion.

 

Either way..I would not try to get involved with them as this can and will eventually blow up in your face. You seem to be in the clear at this point..but at any given time she may fess up..and then and only then will you have to deal with your of so compassionate friend Mark I find it hard to believe that you being really close buds with this guy..and doing his wife..would he let you off the hook so to speak.

 

Are they married? Correct me if i'm wrong on that part, but regardless, I agree. Its still a case of infidelity. Hopefully Mark will wake up and face the music.

[Silly_Girl]

Hi Carhill, thanks for your considered replies

 

Helen doesn't often exhibit strong emotional closeness with her female friends and she definately doesn't have a particular female friend that she calls daily or even weekly. Fact is, outside of her relationship with Mark, I have been her closest friend and the person she shares her problems with and confides with.

 

She is very good at forming assocations and networking with people of both sexes who are interesting especially if they're connected to the events/music industry, though I haven't witnessed anything I would describe as 'signals' of generalized desire and openness to sexual approach.

 

Mark is definately a pivotal player here. Helen and I went through a tricky period with our friendship a couple of years ago and Mark played a role in helping our friendship recover.

 

Neither Helen nor I have said anything to Mark but he is definately aware that infidelity has taken place over a short period of time. She has never been unfaithful to Mark in the past and if she and I have been out somewhere while he looks after their son she always returns to the family home at the end of the evening even if it's 3 or 4am.

 

In the past, when it's late and we've been drinking and having a laugh she has occasionally looked at me in a way to suggest 'would you like to make a move'. When this has happened I have always brought the evening to a close and called her a cab or something like that.

 

They aren't married but have been together for about seven years, they have one adopted boy. Mark and I are in mid 40's, Helen is late 30s. A family unit could've been damaged and I feel ashamed about that and until this happened I would never have believed I was capably of doing such a thing. My integrity is not what I thought it was, I like to make a positive contribution to the people I love and befriend. Sadly my attraction to Helen and her fleeting desire for 'something different' allowed me to breach my own boundaries. Shame on me!

 

Life lessons, indeed! I really didn't see this coming and what a lesson it has been. I just hope that it is not at the cost of losing Helen's friendship. I am very prepared have a several months of no contact with Helen and leave her to rebuild things with Mark but the thought of losing her permanently is extremely distressing.

 

I really have no clue as to how long to leave her alone before attempting to reconnect with her and no clue as to how to approach the situation.

 

Why? Why is it so distressing for you? I have - I suspect - one particular friend whom I would be truly devastated to lose, in any circumstances. The others... if I had messed up, I would accept that as a consequence of my actions.

 

If it's a call between Helen and Mark, and them 'making it' or not, then I reckon (very much hope) you could lose Helen from your life for the greater good.

[Julian45]

That first time, passionate drunken sex was questionable as to whether her faculties were intact. But the choice to slide into bed with you the second time? Not falling for it. This Helen is a repeat offender. She has more than likely cheated on Mark with men that you don't realize, and are probably standing there talking to them sometimes, oblivious to the fact.

Mark knows deep down the way Helen is. That is why he stays mute. He knows to own the truth is to have to let her go for self-respect and dignity. So Mark also, is weak.

You, on the other hand, are just sexually weak, and appear, at least from my gullible reading mind, to not have the manipulative tactics that Helen has mastered, unless you've purposely left those crunchy little croutons out of this salad story.

Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT become Helen's friend even on an acquaintance level until you no longer lust for her, unless your desire is the thrill of the thickening plot of muck. BTW, you do realize that to lust is a choice?

Classic Femme Fatal.

 

On the first encounter both of our mental/decision making faculties were impaired, though physically we weren't impaired to any great extent. The second time around it was at my suggestion that we stay at the cottage alone but I did go to bed early as I was physically exhausted after many days and many hours of hard work. Once in bed, the last thing I expected was for Helen to climb into my bed.

 

I actually really doubt that she has cheated on Mark before, she told me she hadn't and I believed her. However she did cheat on her previous boyfriend (with Mark) and maybe had a 'one-off' with another guy. Alcohol has been a factor each time. I'd be very very surprised to know that she has cheated on Mark in the past.

 

Helen doesn't really appear to be a person with high libido, in fact she comes over as something of a prude and hates sexual jokes and innuendo. Even during sex she is somewhat passive and not into anything the least bit kinky.

 

If I didn't find Helen as the most attractive female I've ever met (i'm not just talking about looks here) I definately would have slept with her. But yes, in this case I was very weak.

 

I really agree that I shouldn't reacquaint with Helen if I still lust for her, the problem there is that though my feeling for her might very well diminish over the coming month if I hang out with her again those feeling might easily return.

 

I didn't know that lust was a choice, from my position it feels like my mind is doing something that I don't want it to do and I feel helpless in changing that.

[You Go Girl]

I didn't know that lust was a choice, from my position it feels like my mind is doing something that I don't want it to do and I feel helpless in changing that.

 

Yes, it is. Time to be a grown-up here. You are responsible for the choices you make, not your other 'head'. Time to own your responsibility here.

 

Overall you seem thoughtful and caring. So extend that good personality trait to include your sex life also, meaning, don't be thoughtful and caring in bed to your best friend's wife, but be thoughtful and caring to your best friend by turning off those feelings of lust.

You'll be doing Helen a great favor too, I'm sure you realize.

[Julian45]

Really? Have you and Mark sat down and talked about this or are you just "assuming" he knows and has kind of forgiven you? Sounds like he's just trying to sweep it under the rug...or he seriously doesnt really know as to what extent you and Helen actually went to. She may have said you guys just kissed or something to undermine that you guys have had sex on more than one occassion.

 

Either way..I would not try to get involved with them as this can and will eventually blow up in your face. You seem to be in the clear at this point..but at any given time she may fess up..and then and only then will you have to deal with your of so compassionate friend Mark I find it hard to believe that you being really close buds with this guy..and doing his wife..would he let you off the hook so to speak.

 

Believe me, I know Mark well enough to know that he realises that infidelity has taken place. Often times it is not what has been said it's what has not been said that reveals the truth. If she had stayed over and nothing had happened both of us would've gone out of our way to stress our innocence however there has been a wall of silence which speaks volumes.

[Distant78]

On the first encounter both of our mental/decision making faculties were impaired, though physically we weren't impaired to any great extent. The second time around it was at my suggestion that we stay at the cottage alone but I did go to bed early as I was physically exhausted after many days and many hours of hard work. Once in bed, the last thing I expected was for Helen to climb into my bed.

 

I actually really doubt that she has cheated on Mark before, she told me she hadn't and I believed her. However she did cheat on her previous boyfriend (with Mark) and maybe had a 'one-off' with another guy. Alcohol has been a factor each time. I'd be very very surprised to know that she has cheated on Mark in the past.

 

Helen doesn't really appear to be a person with high libido, in fact she comes over as something of a prude and hates sexual jokes and innuendo. Even during sex she is somewhat passive and not into anything the least bit kinky.

 

If I didn't find Helen as the most attractive female I've ever met (i'm not just talking about looks here) I definately would have slept with her. But yes, in this case I was very weak.

 

I really agree that I shouldn't reacquaint with Helen if I still lust for her, the problem there is that though my feeling for her might very well diminish over the coming month if I hang out with her again those feeling might easily return.

 

I didn't know that lust was a choice, from my position it feels like my mind is doing something that I don't want it to do and I feel helpless in changing that.

 

It just seems to me as a bunch of excuses for having an EA and PA with one of your best friends. So the alcohol and your lust for her made you have sex with her, right? Because you said you didn't know lust was a choice and that your mind is doing something you don't want it to do. Seven months of NC isn't enough, it should be forever, because you said even if you stop talking to her for a while, no matter what, those feelings would return. So what are you really here for? Validation for what you did?

[Bryanp]

I am sorry but I think it time you man up to Mark. You don't even have the decency to tell him about the all the times you had sex with her. You are just assumming he knows some infidelity took place. He may think it was just kissing or fooling around. You need to tell him exactly what went on. This is the very least you can do.

 

Unbelievable he takes his little boy home and you screw his girlfriend all night. You judge people by their actions and your actions speak volumes. Tell him the whole truth and lets see if he still wishes to remain friends with you. By not telling him the full truth then you are still playing Mark for a fool. I guarantee you that Helen has probably put a spin on it making you look very bad.

 

A true friend not only would not have done this to begin with but to continue to do this more times. You are pretty much of a slime to do this to a friend and your only excuse is that she is so attractive? How absolutely pathetic this excuse is. The bottom line is tell Mark the whole truth so there is no chance he could be left in the dark. Do the right thing for once and be honest with him. Good luck.

[carhill]

I am very prepared have a several months of no contact with Helen and leave her to rebuild things with Mark but the thought of losing her permanently is extremely distressing.

 

Considering your additional response, I think you have made a healthy suggestion here. Offer your support of the relationship to Mark and distance yourself a bit, intimacy-wise, from both of them. More topical and less contact overall. Male friends aren't in each other's pockets anyway (everyday constant contact), IME, and I have a best friend I'd take a bullet for. We just don't connect the same way women do with their friends. Let some time pass and see where things are with *them*, meanwhile doing what you normally do in your life.

 

You can choose to be straightforward with Mark and clear the air. That's one path. Will it be helpful or hurtful to their family dynamic? Unknown. Will it be helpful or hurtful to your friendship? Unknown. I would tend to think the latter, in both cases, at least initially, but every action in life is a crapshoot. I think some distance and time will give you a more balanced assessment of the relative risks and rewards of whichever path you choose.

 

BTW, it is possible to process both love and lust to balanced and neutral place. I found the two critical components were one, time, and two, understanding *how* one *chooses* to love and to lust. You can change that path

[Julian45]

I am sorry but I think it time you man up to Mark. You don't even have the decency to tell him about the all the times you had sex with her. You are just assumming he knows some infidelity took place. He may think it was just kissing or fooling around. You need to tell him exactly what went on. This is the very least you can do.

 

Unbelievable he takes his little boy home and you screw his girlfriend all night. You judge people by their actions and your actions speak volumes. Tell him the whole truth and lets see if he still wishes to remain friends with you. By not telling him the full truth then you are still playing Mark for a fool. I guarantee you that Helen has probably put a spin on it making you look very bad.

 

A true friend not only would not have done this to begin with but to continue to do this more times. You are pretty much of a slime to do this to a friend and your only excuse is that she is so attractive? How absolutely pathetic this excuse is. The bottom line is tell Mark the whole truth so there is no chance he could be left in the dark. Do the right thing for once and be honest with him. Good luck.

 

Bryanp, I know that my behaviour has been terrible, it has taught me a lot. But do you really think that pouring out all the sordid details to Mark is going to help him and Helen in any way? Helen will have said nothing to him that is a fact.

 

Yes my actions have been shameful, I know that. I make no excuses, I find her very attractive we got drunk and crazy stuff happened that shouldn't have. NO excuses I know how bad I have been.

 

I will not be telling all to Mark. For a start it would be very unkind to Helen and secondly it would potentially really mess things up for them.

 

Btw, please don't call me slime or anything like that, I'm currently insulting myself enough already and really don't need insults from others right now.

[Julian45]

Considering your additional response, I think you have made a healthy suggestion here. Offer your support of the relationship to Mark and distance yourself a bit, intimacy-wise, from both of them. More topical and less contact overall. Male friends aren't in each other's pockets anyway (everyday constant contact), IME, and I have a best friend I'd take a bullet for. We just don't connect the same way women do with their friends. Let some time pass and see where things are with *them*, meanwhile doing what you normally do in your life.

 

You can choose to be straightforward with Mark and clear the air. That's one path. Will it be helpful or hurtful to their family dynamic? Unknown. Will it be helpful or hurtful to your friendship? Unknown. I would tend to think the latter, in both cases, at least initially, but every action in life is a crapshoot. I think some distance and time will give you a more balanced assessment of the relative risks and rewards of whichever path you choose.

 

BTW, it is possible to process both love and lust to balanced and neutral place. I found the two critical components were one, time, and two, understanding *how* one *chooses* to love and to lust. You can change that path

 

Carhill, thanks again for replying. I think telling all will be destructive so at this stage I don't think I will. I agree that time and distance is the best policy for now.

[lostsunsets]

There is the possibility that Mark is cuckold and actually encouraged the affair. Either that or he understands from his own experience with her that she is a serial cheater and is willing to overlook that part of their relationship. Just a thought.

[Distant78]

There is the possibility that Mark is cuckold and actually encouraged the affair. Either that or he understands from his own experience with her that she is a serial cheater and is willing to overlook that part of their relationship. Just a thought.

 

Thats exactly what I was thinking, when I read the part about him dropping off Helen at his house. Any guy in a relationship/marriage who thinks with rational thought would not drop off their woman at another guy's house for the night, knowing something could happen. If that is true about Mark, I just hope he wakes up and smell the smoke.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Distant78