I don't have to get over it, I'm not wrong. Betrayed & Getting Divorced

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Fedup&givingup

Looks like they might feel threatened over a woman choosing to leave her husband because of this.

Absolutely.

It DOES cause your own sex life to take a backseat.

"can" and "does" are too different things.

Funny thing is, if you were leaving him because he is an alcoholic or hooked on drugs, I doubt very much you would see many complaints about that.

If you left a man because of a chemical dependence, it's obvious you didn't love him enough to help him through treatment anyways--there's just *no* comparison.

[Fedup&givingup]

About leaving a spouse with a chemical problem...

 

Sometimes love isn't the issue. Sometimes love isn't enough to keep a couple together. People have limits where they reach all they can take, and everyone has a different threshold of tolerance. I see clearly that this woman has reached her limit with her husband on the issue of his pornography. I respect her for that.

 

You are correct that chemical dependency and pornography are two different things, but they both can be an addiction that can interfere, disrupt, and be destructive to a marriage and/or serious relationship. I guess that was my point

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Fedup&givingup

Sometimes love isn't the issue. Sometimes love isn't enough to keep a couple together. People have limits where they reach all they can take, and everyone has a different threshold of tolerance. I see clearly that this woman has reached her limit with her husband on the issue of his pornography. I respect her for that.

That makes perfect sense, and I see where you're coming from.

 

The distinction that I was trying to make is that porn is a (not unhealthy in and of itself) choice that he makes, that interferes with the tolerance of his (ex) wife, whereas chemical dependency would be something that one should seek treatment for, etc.,--I might get some flack for saying that, as there is such a thing as a pornography addiction, I just think this was more a divergence of ideals and standards, rather than a succumbing to an addiction.

[greatneck]

If you are willing to try different thingd. Why dont you pop in a porn tape and get naked with your hubby. My girlfreind is the most respectable woman I ever met. She is so hot in everyway. I think one of her greatest qualitiies is she trys diffent things in bed. We have been togther for a long time and I have to say we have the best sex lfe. At times she puts a porn tape on and we have a great time. She is so hot I'm telling you. Spice things up and also LIVE AND LET LIVE.

[havNfun]

this thread makes me think of a whole bunch of parents arguing with a 5 year old. A wife can have her own oppinions on porn or anything else. But, this right does not insure that any particular oppinions will be grounded in wisdom, maturity, comprehension, or anyother foundation. The original poster sees a bit of porn therapy as being a worse offense than cevering a 20 year sacred bond and family. Yes it is her choice and right to believe this and to be so minded. So all I can do is just feel sad for her - and very happy for him that he will not have to suffer someone like that any longer.

[jmargel]

Originally posted by Fedup&givingup

To the woman who started this thread...

 

I am with you 100%. I understand where you are coming from, and I think you have a good head on your shoulders.

 

I know how you feel, because I've got the same problem with my husband, except he completely hid it from me after I asked him not to have/use pornography.

 

That IS the betrayal...when you communicate to your partner to not do something expressing how it makes you feel, and they acquiesce. Then you discover that they only tried harder in concealing it.

 

I haven't read through all the response posts in regard to your post, but what I skimmed through appeared to be mostly the men putting you down for your decision. Looks like they might feel threatened over a woman choosing to leave her husband because of this.

 

Here's what...I can and do understand that men are visual. What they fail to see is that masturbating to pornography is a form of extracirricular sex in a marriage. It DOES cause your own sex life to take a backseat.

 

Someone on here even said there is no compromise with you, that you are a hard ass or something to that effect...when it comes to asking your spouse to not do something because you find it detrimental, how can there be a compromise? How can there be compromise to something that simply takes away from the sex life in your marriage? Oh, ok, I get it..."Honey, you can only do this on Tuesdays and Thursdays." I mean, seriously, HOW can there be compromise? Some things do have to be all or nothing.

 

I back you up on divorcing your husband, because he cannot refrain from doing something that is destructive to you and your marriage. Funny thing is, if you were leaving him because he is an alcoholic or hooked on drugs, I doubt very much you would see many complaints about that. Point is, you asked him not to do it, and yet he continues. That in itself is no good. You've been married to him for 20 years, and you have condoned it...good for you for taking a stand on your grounds.

 

How in the world can you associate masterbation with porn, as the same as alcohol or drug abuse? It's this kind of mentality which lets people like you make irrational decisions. Masterbation can be viewed in a very good way as well. What is wrong with it specifically? Are you that jealous over images on a screen that you'll let everything else in your marriage go because of it?

 

Why should you impose your insecurities on your husband like this? How is this taking your sex life into a backseat? Do you get it less often? Everybody has their own desire for sex. Very rarely will you find two couples who have the same exact sex drive. Very rarely will you find two couples that want sex the same exact time as each other, all the time. What if he masterbated without porn? With just images in his head? Are you going to stop him from his way of thinking? How much control do you need over your mate's life to feel secure about yourself?

 

This isn't your mate's problem, it's yours. Good luck trying to find a man that doesn't do this. Remember marriage isn't about control. This is not the same as cheating. Nor is it the same as drug abuse. If the masterbation is so much that it is excessive (which there may be rare cases of it) such as gambling, etc.. Then yes there is a problem. But I would probably safely assume this isn't the case.

 

Both you and the original poster of this thread are going to lead very lonely lives if you continue this train of thought. Instead of feeling rejected and threatened by this, why not embrace it? There is nothing wrong with you doing the same thing he is. There is nothing wrong w/ doing it together either. Why not keep your sex life a little spiced up? I just don't understand the mentality you have regarding this. Remember these are only images on a screen. He doesn't have a desire to be with them. You are meshing the two together, which is completely wrong.

 

Do you also realize your husband was hiding it from you because you made him feel ashamed of his own body? That he now can't trust you in that you won't go off the deep end because he does this? Are you trying to make it seem like he is out from the norm? By him hiding this, he is telling you alot. Slowly your communication will erode away if this continues.

[dudesomewhere]

too many reponses to a good post that I figure I weigh in on...I wanted to talk about something like this. My post would have been more general and broad and maybe I'll give that view here as well.

 

That said, I agree with the poster.

 

Before you disagree with me, understand what it is I say.

 

In my book 2 people get together if they mesh, if they are compatible...if their thoughts, ideas and beliefs are the same...or even if they are not the same they are agreeable. Some people can agree on each others differences. In this case the wife thinks the husband has the same view of porn as she does but in the end she was lied to and that is the biggest betrayal...that is what lies beneath the obviousness of the porn issue. The lie compounded on top of the problem that caused it makes things all the more hurtful.

 

So for those who may have not understood her plight to begin with, why not understand that the husband should have found himself someone who agreed with him. People go for what is easy too often, they make sacrifices which can be good but they sometimes lie and that is never good. Why lie to someone when you can find someone who agrees with you? Is it not fair to ask that you find someone who is the same as you on something? And in this case porn? Is it so unreasonable to ask such a reasonable thing? For all the men who love porn, there is most likely the same number of women who love it as well, why the need to find someone who does not like it, lie to them and try to defend your lie later?

 

If a wife has a problem with porn, you as a commentor, as a reader should support her if in her case her husband gave her the impression he supported this idea, regardless of your stance on porn.

 

Just as you would look at all these recent posts by cheaters or someone who wants to cheat, male and female I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at. Why do these cheaters choose faithful people to be with and want to cheat with? Why can't these cheaters find someone who believes in cheating as well so that they both can be unfaithful to eachother? Because too many people are selfish...too selfish.

 

If you love porn, male or female...find a person who loves porn to share your life with...don't waste the life of someone who doesn't want it. Don't be selfish, not with someone's heart.

 

That's my few cents, a little more than a nickel's worth but less than a dime

[moimeme]

when you communicate to your partner to not do something expressing how it makes you feel, and they acquiesce. Then you discover that they only tried harder in concealing

 

The problem is that we are talking about habits people have. Substitute 'porn' for 'eating junk food'. It's the same sort of thing (again, *not* talking about addiction, just occasional use). People eat junk food. They swear, swear, SWEAR to quit. They promise themselves and everyone else. But the junk food beckons - so they go off someplace and stuff themself with fries. Now they feel ashamed because they couldn't keep their promise. Who is going to march in with a band playing and flags flying to announce that they have not been able to keep their promise? And what reasonable human is going to be completely unforgiving in such a situation?

 

And, most of all, why would you divorce someone because that person made what is essentially a dumb promise? People have real poor records of quitting habits that involve any sort of pleasure like smoking, drugs, booze, junk food, etc etc. What if the guy had been trying to quit smoking and slipped?

 

As for the man being responsible for making sure he finds a woman who doesn't mind porn, I would think that most reasonable men would expect that most reasonable women would not lose their minds entirely over someone using porn occasionally, especially when, for one reason or another, she isn't available to mess around with. I imagine the guy was flabbergasted to have her flip out on him. Porn mags and movies have been available forever but it seems that it's only recently that women have become completely intolerant about this stuff.

 

I've read countless articles about marriages and marriage problems and don't recall even one about this - until the last couple of years. Wierd, IMHO.

[Azeele]

I, also, find it disturbing the kind of porn he was "into". Just thinking that my husband enjoys those sort of degrading images would make me feel more than a little sick to my stomach. And, then, how long would it take before he wants to act out those fantasies - if he hasn't already?? How'd you like to hear, "I only had sex with her because I wanted to fulfill my fantasy of degrading a woman and I didn't want to do that with you because I love you and respect you."?

 

And, I find it hard to believe that continally watching these types of images doesn't affect his psyche in some way. Could you watch violent images repeatedly and not be affected by them? - whether to excite him to want to act out his fantasies or to desensitize him to the violent images? I find it a bit of rationalization on his part to say that he likes to fantasize about BDSM images but doesn't want to act out these fantasies with his wife because he loves and respects her. It sounds a bit like - he is mentally separating women in his mind to his loving, sweet wife on one hand, and all other women - whores who deserve to be degraded - on the other hand. Disturbing. Here's an interesting question - after you divorce him and you are no longer his sweet, loving wife of 20 years, what category will you be in then?

 

What I'm saying is beyond the fact that he ignored her wishes and made a promise to her that he didn't keep - that he lied to her - beyond that - his choice of fantasy is very disturbing.

[moimeme]

BDSM is an interesting culture and the people who are in it are interesting. There's some sort of pain/endorphin high that they get into. Just as some people masturbate or have sex and still feel ashamed about doing those things, so people who have certain fantasies are ashamed about them. There's a line between BDSM and genuinely sick practices (i.e. the latter being carried out upon unwilling people) and, unless you're positive your spouse is into the genuinely sick stuff, there's no real need to be disgusted.

 

I couldn't figure the attraction to BDSM, but after knowing someone who was into it, I decided to read up on it. It's not likely to ever be my thing, but it was very useful to me to find out why people are into it and what they get out of it.

[Angel35]

Sadguest,

I totally understand how you feel! My now ex husband used to look at porn all the time also, which I find very disrespectful

 

Alot of you are missing the issue you here, its not really about porn or masturbation! Its about disrespecting someone's feelings!! If he is sooo in love with his wife then he would want to put her feelings first, and give her the love, honorable,cherished marriage that he said "I DO" to. Bottom line is, their relationship should come first! If there is an issue in the relationship, it needs to be resolved and if one is not willing to work it out then that person needs to go! The relationship obviously was not his top priority and he must pay the consequences!!

 

I know not everyone is perfect but she gave him his chances and still he did not respect her. SELFISH

I guess most of you men wouldn't mind your women looking at big cack, while she masturbated herself off.hhmmm I bet a majority of you would feel the same as she does.

 

My now ex husband would pay for porn online, he had multiple porn accounts. We have 2 small children, and I found it very degrading that he would pay for that and take money from our children's mouths and backs! I warned him, he did not listen and he is paying the price! There were a lot of times when we would be struggling but he made sure his porn got paid for! SELFISH JERK!!

 

I think it is degrading, very disloyal, insulting when someone who says they love you looks outside the relationship to meet a need when it should be met inside the relationship! That to me is cheating!!

Oh so you men justify it by saying its harmless!! HUH? Well if it is hurting someone you love then it is considered harmful!! Bad behaviors are not acceptable and you got to draw the line somewhere or you will be walked on for the rest of your life!!

Good for you sadguest!! I'm happy to see a woman stand up to a man who is selfish and has no respect!!

[havNfun]

moimeme,

as always, I feel you are so reasonable and on target with your points.

 

Of course I didn't see the original poster or anyone else respond to your points in specific.

 

It seems like a big point the original poster is making is that she made a boundary

or rule or request. And the husband crossed this boundary, broke this rule, ignored this request.

 

So the wife is feeling betrayed, and feeling like she is married to a man that can't follow rules and blatantly crosses her boundaries. This isn’t so unreasonable! The husband may indeed be stomping all over her feelings, and completely failing to consider the wife’s expressed limits.

 

Is the quality of a rule that someone makes for another relevant?

Are people’s rules and boundaries always right?

Are all laws equally fair and came about due to equal amounts of wisdom?

 

Consider some of these rules and whether it would ever be right to break them.

 

America had a rule that women couldn’t vote?

 

The world is flat so don’t sail too far or you will fall off?

 

There is rule someplaces have set to keep women from participating in immoral sex activities (kind of like the porn husband here).

 

This clearly stated rule forbids women to cheat on their husbands. Many women have been buried up to the neck and stoned to death when they broke this one. Now, how is this not fair? These women full well knew that if they got caught sleeping around, they could get their heads bashed in one pebble or boulder at a time. OR, could this be an example how while a law or boundary may have some merit on its own, an absurdly unjust punishment assigned to the breaking of that rule can negate any merit it may have had – as far as the rule being just,fair or right.

 

 

I sincerely ask that the original poster consider her rules.

Should all of a spouse’s rules be followed no matter what?

Also, are all rules that a spouse might set equally right and wise?

 

Are there some reasonable arguments backing the “no porn rule” we are discussing?

Probably. I think perhaps the husband could benefit if several ways If he didn’t watch porn.

No big deal.

But now lets look at the punishment the wife has set for this no porn rule?

If the wife’s porn boundary is crossed then the husband gets left, divorced and the wife takes her love and commitment away.

Does this consequence make the rule seem more or less absurd?

How about if we make the punishment a bit more effective and so we’ll clearly let him know that if he keeps watching porn, before we divorce him – we’ll let rats eat his eyeballs and we’ll also castrate him?

Okay, so now he gets left, castrated, painfully blinded and as a bonus parting penalty,

He gets to feel like he is a bad person because someone made a rule, and clearly informed him of the consequences, and he broke it. Shame on him!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

NO MAN OF ANY CHARACTER WOULD FAIL TO STEP OUT OF THE BOUNDARIES HIS WIFE CHOSE FOR HIM TO OBEY.

 

And lets not forget that the wife is in no way to blame because she was very clear about her rule, and she in detail described to the husband what would happen if he didn’t obey.

 

Like I said in an earlier post, as an individual the wife has the free will and completely legal option of not only outlawing porn watching by her husband, but the right to give him a divorce as his punishment.

 

But is the rule fair and wise?

If so, will it still seem fair no-matter what damage this rule’s punishment inflicts?

 

Perhaps before divorcing her husband, this wife should double-check her default assumption that her rules are right because she makes them. And no one has more wisdom than her on this subject. Should she carefully consider the punishment she assigned to this rule? Was it the most fair and wise punishment that anyone could have ever come up with? And will a big divorce make the porn rule seem a bit more unreasonable.

Good luck

[moimeme]

HavnFun

 

The original poster posted over a year ago. This is a very old thread.

 

As for people making 'rules', last I heard, marriage is supposed to be a PARTNERSHIP, not a dictatorship in which one person (apparently, the woman) is entitled to lay down rules which the husband MUST follow, whether or not they are fair or reasonable.

 

As well, no matter how unreasonable a woman's feelings might be, the man, apparently, is supposed to honour them all. Maybe the woman needs to get a bit of therapy to understand that the man doesn't want the porn women more than her, etc. etc. NOT ALL FEELINGS ARE BY DINT OF THEIR EXISTENCE FAIR OR REASONABLE.

 

Read Dr. Albert Ellis. He pioneered RATIONAL Emotive Behaviour Therapy, in which people are taught to change their thinking in order to alter their feelings. It is what you say to yourself that governs how you feel about things. So if you tell yourself 'my husband watches porn because he doesn't love me', you will upset yourself. If you, on the other hand, say 'my husband watches porn but I know he loves me because he does X, Y, Z for me AND comes home to me every night AND is a good father etc etc., you will not upset yourself.

 

But to allow yourself to expect somebody else to live by YOUR rules is dictatorship, NOT marriage. When men did that to women, women protested, divorced, and even shot the men.

[CurlyIam]

Moi, as you've pointed out, some things are/can be controlled.

 

But that - porn, addiction to porn responds to a sexual need. A sexual need that doesnot inclde the wife. Some women are able to let it go by saying: yes he loves, he does X,Y, Z, he's agood father, he comes home etc.Thzy value sex /sex life differently. But in a way, it is sexual rejection.

 

Prefering porn, watching porn a lot, allowing porn to be an issue... honestely, I can understand why some women would feel and do feel threaterned. It's preffering a fantasy to the real thing. To the living, loving, near you partner.

 

 

 

Used to spice up sex life, porn can offer quite an entertainment, I agree! But it can also become a surrogate! Should one choose to tolerate it or not it's irrelevant. The prefferance is still there! It exists, it is real, and it has the potential to threathern the couple.

[moimeme]

Curly, I have repeated my caveat on almost every post: I am NOT talking about addictions. I am talking about occasional use. Addiction is something else entirely; addicts of all sorts require professional treatment.

[havNfun]

Curly,

if you were married to her don't you think you would probably be driven to porn as well? (wink)

[Alina]

I almost divorsed my husband over the porn issue 2 years ago, after 8 years of marriage. But I think I was able to get over it. And I am very glad I was able to do so. The divorse would be the biggest mistake of my life.

 

One problem I still have is when I catch him looking at other girls on the street. Any suggestions how I can overcome this one? Thank you.

[Alina]

I have to add, my husband loves me very much. I don't know anyone else who would treat his wife better then my husband treats me. But he is a voyier kind of guy, he likes to look at women (me including). So, when we are on a beach, and I notice him looking at a girl in bikini, I get upset. Please advise, how to overcome it.

[havNfun]

Alina,

if it helps,

I am very visual and somewhat of a voyeur too

but I can assure you

100% that I would not

betray my wife (if I had one)

in a million years.

but I will also always be

attracted to women.

in men, attraction doesn't

go away - much at all

for women

even if they are in love with one in particular

[jmargel]

It's human nature to look at attractive things. Even though I am getting married in a month I still look at, and point out attractive women to my fiancee. She doesn't mind, she actually will say something about a hot chick if she sees one.

 

That doesn't mean we love each other any less. If he is so 'good', and he is just looking, then it's your insecurity that you'll lose such a good man. You need to build that up. When you see a good looking guy, do you look? Unless you are blind, then you do. When a guy sees a hot chick, it's a momentary thing. About 5 minutes later he forgets all about her. Our love for our mate however, stays with us forever.

 

When you see him checking out a hot chick, say to yourself 'So what, he's looking at her, but I have so much more, since he's with me'. And if a chick is checking him out, instead of getting jealous, be proud. That you have something good looking on your arm that isn't about to leave you.

 

As for the other posts moimoi is correct. We aren't talking about an addiction. As for the woman who's children went hungry so he could pay for his porn? Well if that statement is true (which I doubt it is) then there are alot of other problems in that relationship other than porn. Remember most porn involves both male & female. So why not watch it next time with him and check out the guys?

[Alina]

Thank you very much for your posts! I was able to understand and change my opinion about the porn, I am sure I can handle this one too.

[rble618740]

To the original poster:

 

I don't want to belittle your feelings, but after reading your posts, I have a few comments. You indicated that you offered to participate in viewing pornography and even dabbling in bondage/S&M with your husband. This makes it sound like you are not fundamentally opposed to pornography or the type of pornography he is viewing. It sounds as though you are opposed to your husband viewing pornography without you. In my humble opinion, and I'm no expert, this comes across as a security or control issue. You feel betrayed because (1) he lied to you (which I agree is wrong), but (2) he is doing something without you that you think the two of you should only do together. As for (1), I'm sure this hurt. However, did you get married believing that your husband would never hurt you? Have you ever hurt him? Have you tried examining potential explanations for his untruthfulness? As for (2), you have to realize that you can not control someone else (even your husband). Obviously, you wish your husband would share his pornographic experiences with you. He chooses not to. If you are not opposed to the actual viewing of pornography (which I assume you aren't because you were willing to do it), you may need to just accept that, despite your wishes, viewing pornography is something he'd rather do alone.

 

I also believe that it is unfair to rate your husband on your scale - I'd never do X, I always do Y, etc. Your husband is not you. It is fair to have expectations (like honesty) and to set boundaries (for example if you thought pornography was sinful, choosing not to expose yourself to it), but you can not impose your will on someone else. Also, we cause ourselves unnecessary pain by jumping to assumptions (If he loved me he would...., he must not care about me because he ....., etc.) Women make stronger connections between acts and feelings than men. For many men, their behavioral decisions are not at all a reflection of their feelings. They don't like acts and emotions the way that we do.

 

Lastly, you might want to consider how reactionary you are being. You want to be on high ground, and in order to do that, you have to take responsibility for your feelings and emotions (do not let your happiness or sanity rest on your partner's decisions). Your husband has to take responsibility for his actions and decisions. Your husband viewing pornography does not have to equal misery for you. He is responsible for viewing pornography, you are responsible for how you react to it. It seems to me that there are lots of other options. Divorce is the ultimate betrayal (breaking your vows) and I promise, there is no hapiness in meeting betrayal with betrayal.

 

I understand where you are coming from. I think you are expressing hurt as anger. While my husband and I were separated, I learned that he went to a strip club and got a lap dance. I was very, very hurt. My typical response would have been to assume that he was there because he wasn't living at home, that he wanted something from that woman, that he didn't respect me, that he didn't care for my feelings, etc. Instead of forbidding him to go to strip clubs, screaming at him about the horror of what he had done, and deciding that our separation should be come a divorce, I took another route. I took some time to cool off before I talked to him. I sat him down and calmly told him that I was especially hurt about the lap dance because we were separated and I was not confident about the stability of our relationship. I told him that the reason I was so hurt by his actions was that I cherish our physical relationship and that it was painful to think someone else touching him in a way that I felt was reserved for me as his wife. Our conversation lasted about three minutes (no kidding). Then I let it go. We left for a date together and had a great time. Later that same evening, he apologized with tears in his eyes for hurting me so badly. Since then, he has chosen (not been forced) to avoid bachelor parties where he knows a stripper is likely to be present. It is that much more gratifying for me to know that my husband chose this path as opposed to me forcing it on him. One calm, cool, very brief conversation accomplished more than hours and hours of hurtful fighting ever could have.

 

I have lived what I am telling you. I can only provide an outside perspective. Your decision is your decision, whether I think it is right or wrong. So it is with our spouses.

[painter]

i have no issues with porn whatsoever, never have. this is about broken promises, lying and hiding the truth, not about porn.

if anyone believes that its a good thing to deliberately do a thing that upsets the person they love, whether or not that person will ever find out, well, a person who does that deserves the kind of relationship they will get.

i personally quite like porn but i totally agree with this woman. lying is not ok, breaking a promise is not ok. i dont know if divorce is always the best option in a case like this but if that is the extent to which she has been hurt then that may be the best way out of a traumatic situation.

yes, betrayal can be traumatic, no its never a little thing no matter what the lie was about. if thats how she feels thats how she feels.

[FolderWife]

What he did hurt her. She told him it hurt her. He defended it, but it still HURT HER, and he continued to do it. So she's leaving him, so he won't be able to hurt her any more.

 

I think a spouse continually hurting another spouse, and disregarding their feelings is a very valid reason to leave.

 

I get so angry at people who think that they have a right to judge another person's decisions as wrong.

[evagreten]

I don't think you understand the point of male masturbation. Having sex with a woman is NOT as quick and easy as just yanking it. We don't have to worry about anyone else getting off first, we don't have to worry about catching the person in the right mood at the right time, we don't have to prolong anything, we just zip down, go at it and that's it, easy, quick, and that's very appealing some times.

 

This definition has actually really helped me! It's true! Sometimes he doesn't want to worry about performing and pleasing me, he just wants a 'quick release'. Sex has many aspects. Masturbation is about self-pleasure, not about you or the other women. He uses porn because he has to imagine something to help him on the way, he can't just think about the next phone bill, he has to stimulate himself.

 

Thanks!