What more can I do?

[Inflikted]

I'm trying to figure out why I have so much trouble trying to date, or get involved in a relationship. To put things into perspective, I'm almost 22, and I've never been on a proper date (heck, never even had a flirtatious moment with a girl). Now, the biggest thing people always seem to suggest working on is self-esteem. Now, I'll admit, back in high school, my self-esteem was really at an all-time low. And while it was pretty rough to pull myself back, I'm at a point where I'm fine with who I am. I'm very well aware of my many flaws, but I don't beat myself up over them anymore, and I'm basically okay with myself as a whole.

 

People also suggest finding a focus in life. Granted, I'm not where I want to be, just yet, in terms of career and/ or education, but I'm working on it, not like I'm sitting by doing nothing with my life. People also suggest finding hobbies or activities that you enjoy. I have stuff I like to do; unfortunately, none of them really introduce me to new girls very often, but eh.

 

Now, I'll admit, I'm a bit of an introvert, by nature. But even still, I don't consider myself a "recluse". I mean, I go to college, I have a part time job in retail (so I come into contact with a lot of people that way), and yet, I just can't seem to "click" with girls in a way that could lead to anything more than friendship. I just don't get it, really. It's frustrating. I can't figure out what it is about me that's giving me so much trouble. At least if I had an obvious problem, I would know how to work on it. But what the heck can you do when you feel like you're already doing pretty much everything the right way? It's kind of depressing, really. :/

[David.]

Now, I'll admit, I'm a bit of an introvert, by nature. But even still, I don't consider myself a "recluse". I mean, I go to college, I have a part time job in retail (so I come into contact with a lot of people that way), and yet, I just can't seem to "click" with girls in a way that could lead to anything more than friendship. I just don't get it, really. It's frustrating. I can't figure out what it is about me that's giving me so much trouble. At least if I had an obvious problem, I would know how to work on it. But what the heck can you do when you feel like you're already doing pretty much everything the right way? It's kind of depressing, really. :/

 

I can relate...

 

 

A couple of things to clarify:

Do you have conversations with people (women, to be more specific) at college or work?

In other words, is it an issue of breaking the ice, or is it more like the seeming lack of interest from anyone, even though you may be having regular conversations?

[Inflikted]

In other words, is it an issue of breaking the ice, or is it more like the seeming lack of interest from anyone, even though you may be having regular conversations?

 

Well, a bit of both, really. I'm not so good with "breaking the ice". I can usually get the ball rolling a little better if somebody else gets the conversation going, but even then, I haven't really been able to mesh well with any girls to the point where I feel like anything could really come out of it.

[David.]

The main thing is that if you have no trouble with general conversation, then it's really a matter of one or more of the following:

a) luck,

b) letting someone know you're interested, then letting things happen (or not)

c) knowing how to move things along,

d) knowing when to cut your losses and move on to some other method.

 

I can tell you from long experience that it's easy to meet people if you put yourself in the right places and more or less fit people's expectations of what to do. So, if you're in a classroom situation, you start by talking about the classroom topics, then move on to some tangential topic, which might include suggesting an after-class meeting. And so on. It fits with what people expect from the setting. If you're doing a litter-pick in the park, you ask how well people know the place, what they like about it, what other events they do. Again, its the setting, and it gives you the latitude to pursue certain topics of conversation and see how they unfold. All of those are pretty simple expressions of interest, and any halfway normal person will pick up on them and at least be polite in response. From there, it's a matter of someone being friendly enough to invite you along to something else.

 

If you're not getting that far, it's time to move on to a different group of people, a different setting. No point hanging around people who aren't acknowledging your efforts. Keep circulating until you find people who both share a general interest and are kind enough to take you into their circle.

 

Making friends, and finding a romantic partner, can both start from the same places.

 

Of course, there's more to it when looking for a love interest, and it can get a lot more complicated, but I'm guessing you haven't tried some part of this more basic stuff.

Edited August 21, 2010 by David.

[spiderowl]

I don't know you and I don't know your individual circumstances or what your physical presence is like so it's hard to know what's happening. I can only think of cases of nice guys that I know that don't tend to get girls. There are a few things that could make a difference for them but they tend to be things that other people either don't like to mention or don't mention because they feel it may be implying they can't get girls, thus knocking their confidence. I'll list the things that I've noticed that can make a difference. Please don't assume that they all apply to you as they come from my experience.

 

- most vital - he doesn't keep himself well in some way, e.g. unwashed or bad breath, unkempt, too much facial hair so it's a turn off, truly appalling fashion sense which isn't about fashion but is about being out of touch, very overweight, smokes, drinks too much for comfort - you get the idea

 

- he doesn't look friendly. He doesn't smile, appears to have no sense of humour, hangs around looking sullen, stares but doesn't smile at all which comes across as creepy. When you talk to him, he answers in monosyllables and doesn't seem to want to converse

 

- he's friendly and wants to chat, but has doubtful manners. He never offers to buy a drink or says please or thank you. He talks about himself or interrupts. He talks with his mouth full. He takes liberties that seem ill-mannered

 

- further to the above, he manages to betray a not-so-nice side to him very quickly, e.g. making crude gestures, or commenting that another woman who is not present is 'fit'. Talking 'man talk' while women are present is seen as bad manners as women do not like to feel this is how men are talking about them

 

- there just something dodgy about him, e.g. he wears South Park t-shirts and can only talk about cartoons, he's obsessed with something and talks about that, he doesn't pick up on any attempts to put him off, basically he's insensitive and has limited social skills

 

- he's a really nice guy and liked by women but can't bridge the romantic gap with them, e.g. talks about geeky things all the time, but when she tries to talk about more personal or emotional things with him like some problem she has that's upsetting her, he panics and reverts to geekstuff (opportunity to get closer gone kaput!), he tends to get caught up in male conversations if other guys are around and so there's never a space for her to join in and she gets bored, he's too shy to take a risk and suggest a meeting that could be a date - how is she supposed to know if he's interested in her or the event? Spending time alone with a woman is crucial to developing anything

 

- he just can't loosen up enough to have fun and to joke and tease women. Consequently, they don't feel relaxed and playful with him either. If he just played and teased rather than seeing it as a make-or-break situation, he'd probably find himself receiving invitations

 

If any of the above apply, you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Positive things you can do are:

 

- be clean, smell great, be reasonably well-groomed with decent clothes

 

- smile and be friendly, show an interest in her, even if only at work in a shop

 

- make contact, got to start with this, if in a shop say something or ask about something, anything reasonable to start a conversation and make that contact and show you are friendly and cheerful. Once you've made the contact, make a positive comment about how you're glad you bumped into her. If she seems happy with this and lingers, suggest meeting up again some time

 

- build bridges to get closer emotionally and physically. Move closer, but not too close, ask about things of interest to her, tell her a bit about yourself, don't be afraid to talk about things that affect you, about feelings, show you have an emotional side as this makes you more of a person and an individual. If you do this, she'll feel drawn in and start asking you things. At this point, remember to ask her about herself too. Keep the conversation about even as far as each talking. Suggest meeting up elsewhere for coffee, to see some event, keep it casual but make sure she knows it will just be you and her

 

and then good luck!

Edited August 22, 2010 by spiderowl

[Inflikted]

- he doesn't look friendly. He doesn't smile, appears to have no sense of humour, hangs around looking sullen, stares but doesn't smile at all which comes across as creepy. When you talk to him, he answers in monosyllables and doesn't seem to want to converse

 

- he just can't loosen up enough to have fun and to joke and tease women. Consequently, they don't feel relaxed and playful with him either. If he just played and teased rather than seeing it as a make-or-break situation, he'd probably find himself receiving invitations

 

These are the only two things that I probably have problems with, and even then, more so the last one than the first. I want to be that way (the way you described in that second bullet point, that is), but I have a hard time trying to find the line between teasing in a playful way, and saying something stupid that comes off as insulting and/ or mean-spirited. And honestly, I'd much rather keep my mouth shut than risk offending someone, yanno? Especially because that's typically not my intention, and it just happens because I'm not quite clever or witty enough to "tease" in a good way.

[spiderowl]

You sound a really decent guy and I'm sure women would enjoy talking to you. You have got to be yourself though. There's nothing wrong with being shy and in fact women understand some guys will be. In a group, you tend to get the group mentality where everyone sticks to the same subject that the dominant group members are talking about. You can bet there will be women in that group who don't want this, feel bored and left out, and would be delighted if you asked them about themselves instead of joining in the current topic or opting out altogether. It also shows you're confident enough to be independent from the group when interested in something else.

 

A lot of the men I know don't ask about the woman they like, they just talk about things that interest them and hope it will impress her. If they asked her a few questions, it would be the start of real human contact. If she likes you, she'll be interested and ask you questions too. I don't know if you find this relevant or not.

 

It's a shame you are assuming that what you say wouldn't go down well. I bet you would be fine and people would actually be interested to hear more from you. Speaking means that people get to know you a bit which then gives them things to ask you - and there starts the involvement that's so crucial. Women tend to get to know people in more depth that men do and that's where you can connect with them.

 

A friend of mine is very good at getting to know women. He starts off making a gentle sort of contact. He'll go somewhere carrying a book (I've noticed it's often one a woman would enjoy reading too!), and wearing something that also might catch the eye, like an interesting pendant or scarf. Amazingly, women often speak to him first because they've spotted these things. He then talks about the book and they talk about other books, then films and then things that might be on in the near future at the theatre ... and so a personal relationship starts to develop. Oh yes, he's very good at this! And to do it, he doesn't have to be a particularly outgoing guy or stunningly good looking, but just willing to chat and trigger a starting point in an area where women feel relaxed with him.

 

I hope some of this helps anyway. I'd love to know how you get on.

Edited August 22, 2010 by spiderowl