Star Gazer Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 This is meant to be a general discussion, not focused on my own issues or those of the men mentioned. I just mention my issues and those of the men I've dated solely for example purposes. Admittedly, I have abandonment issues. My issues stem from abandonment as a child, as well as some sh*tty ends of relationships (both platonic and romantic). For me, in short, it has resulted in one of two things: (1) clingy, nearly obsessive behavior to those I'm emotionally attached to (earlier years), or (2) selection of partners who I don't feel as much emotional attachment towards so that I have control over the feelings of fear of abandonment (recent years). Obviously, these actions haven't boded well for my relationships. I know for some others who have admitted abandonment issues, particularly certain men I've dated, they tend to react the exact opposite from clingy: they hold everyone at a distance, maintain emotional walls, finding it very difficult to let their guard down for fear of being abandoned again. They select partners they want to be attached to, but they will not let that attachment develop out of fear. I'm not sure anyone can become entirely healed of their abandonment fear. But I do think that a SO or potential SO can do things to quell that fear, as well as things to make it rear its ugly head. Have you ever dated someone with admitted abandonment issues? How did you handle it?
spookie Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I've never dated anyone like that, but admittedly that's a HUGE issue that I struggle with. The more I care about someone, the more overwhelming and incapacitating the fear. I honestly don't think there is anything anyone can do for me to get over it completely - I mean, just because someone hasn't left YET, doens't mean they'll NEVER leave - no matter how long we've been together. But some behaviors definitely feed into it. The biggest trigger for me is when my partner won't let himself be reached. When I can and call and he doesn't answer, that sets off a panic-induced chain of emotional events for me at the end of which I am 100% certain the thing I fear most is finally here. So, I'd say: calling back in a timlely manner, is up there.
Confused100 Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Well I haven't dated anyone yet... but I know I have a pretty big fear of abandonment.... probably one reason I haven't had any success yet. I get really clingy and just scare off the person I'm interested in.
pandagirl Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 This is something I am dealing with now, and if I don't figure out how to fix it, I feel like I'm going to push my bf away, as I've become needy and looking for reassurance and he's getting tired of dealing with it. He was extremely understanding at first, now he's in the spot of getting sick of it, and the next step is... well, you know what that is. I've been reading some studies on anxiety, worry and fear. The majority of people worry about relationships. They doctor gave examples of what a person might do in a relationship. One of those things is what you said, Spookie: you calling and them not calling back triggers anxiety, then your thoughts wander to the worst things imaginable: he's cheating, he's losing interest, etc. It does in me too. But you can't expect your SO to make you feel better. When we look for reassurance or for a way to control the situation, they're only temporary fixes -- they don't last, and then it turns into a bad cycle. I honestly don't think there is anything a partner can specifically do to help ease these kinds of thoughts, because (most of the time) the issue is within ourselves.
pandagirl Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 The biggest trigger for me is when my partner won't let himself be reached. When I can and call and he doesn't answer, that sets off a panic-induced chain of emotional events for me at the end of which I am 100% certain the thing I fear most is finally here. Both you and I know this is irrational thinking, but our fears can get the worst of us. So, what you can do is write down your thoughts and what you fear. Look at them and see if they are rational. The truth is, if he doesn't call back the reality probably is: he didn't hear his phone, at the gym, at dinner, with a friend, watching a movie, busy, working, etc. Also, remember! There is never a 100% fool proof way to know if someone is going to leave you or not.
kdark Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Fear of abandonment has ruled every relationship of mine for as long as I can remember. Even family relationships. And as a man, it always manifests itself as a pushing away of people before I can develop a strong bond with them. I have never been dumped; every relationship of mine I have been the dumper. I honestly don't think it's possibly for people with fear of abandonment/trust issues to be in a healthy relationship. I would seek therapy, but I don't have health insurance.
Eeyore79 Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 By the time I was sixteen and my first bf asked me out, I already had issues. I had been bullied and ostracised at school, so I was terrified to relate to anyone. I simply didn't trust anyone, and I didn't know how to react to someone who actually liked me. Over the subsequent years I was dumped and cheated on quite a few times, which made me insecure and clingy in relationships. I went through a period of only dating "safe" guys who I had absolutely no feelings for, and it still makes me feel insecure to date someone I actually like. I really like my current bf, but I won't deny that I feel insecure. My instinct is to look around for a backup guy to date if my bf dumps me, keep my options open and try not to have feelings for my bf, and it's taking me a lot of effort to trust in my relationship and not do those things. If he seemed more caring and attentive, and had no female friends, maybe I'd feel less insecure - I feel like he could do more to make me feel secure.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I think you're overanalyzing it. I just ended it with a guy who was and still is close to both parents, they remained married....he is pretty screwed up despite that.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 He would make you feel secure naturally if he felt the same way as you do. By the time I was sixteen and my first bf asked me out, I already had issues. I had been bullied and ostracised at school, so I was terrified to relate to anyone. I simply didn't trust anyone, and I didn't know how to react to someone who actually liked me. Over the subsequent years I was dumped and cheated on quite a few times, which made me insecure and clingy in relationships. I went through a period of only dating "safe" guys who I had absolutely no feelings for, and it still makes me feel insecure to date someone I actually like. I really like my current bf, but I won't deny that I feel insecure. My instinct is to look around for a backup guy to date if my bf dumps me, keep my options open and try not to have feelings for my bf, and it's taking me a lot of effort to trust in my relationship and not do those things. If he seemed more caring and attentive, and had no female friends, maybe I'd feel less insecure - I feel like he could do more to make me feel secure.
zengirl Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 He would make you feel secure naturally if he felt the same way as you do. This isn't always true, if someone has actual abandonment issues -- if they have these issues, no one else can satisfy their need for total security because they're insecure internally. I actually dated a fellow with abandonment issues. At first, it was charming, because he was very attentive, but later, it because exhausting. I'm not into jealousy, control, etc, and if you have abandonment issues, you reach out trying to grab people, like sand in your hands, and the same thing happens. That fellow would've made a great SO had he not had these issues, but we broke up over it after a couple months instead. It wasn't because I didn't care for him or am not a reliable partner -- I still think he's a great guy and most of my SOs will tell you I'm extremely reliable -- but it just becomes impossible to make a situation like that work, when someone is always questioning you (not out loud; but it was clear from his feelings/attitude). Also, the world tends to give you what you think, so if you think, "They will leave me," you're more likely to find people who will in fact leave you. I don't think this is magic or anything; just our people-picker at work. When you start looking for something, you find it.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 21, 2010 Author Posted August 21, 2010 Fear of abandonment has ruled every relationship of mine for as long as I can remember. Even family relationships. And as a man, it always manifests itself as a pushing away of people before I can develop a strong bond with them. I have never been dumped; every relationship of mine I have been the dumper. I honestly don't think it's possibly for people with fear of abandonment/trust issues to be in a healthy relationship. This is a generalization, but I've noticed that more men react the way you do to their fear of abandonment (never letting themselves get close enough to bond/attach), whereas women tend to react by being clingy. In your case, kdark, was there anything your GFs could have done to help you overcome that fear??
spookie Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) This is something I am dealing with now, and if I don't figure out how to fix it, I feel like I'm going to push my bf away, as I've become needy and looking for reassurance and he's getting tired of dealing with it. He was extremely understanding at first, now he's in the spot of getting sick of it, and the next step is... well, you know what that is. I've been reading some studies on anxiety, worry and fear. The majority of people worry about relationships. They doctor gave examples of what a person might do in a relationship. One of those things is what you said, Spookie: you calling and them not calling back triggers anxiety, then your thoughts wander to the worst things imaginable: he's cheating, he's losing interest, etc. It does in me too. But you can't expect your SO to make you feel better. When we look for reassurance or for a way to control the situation, they're only temporary fixes -- they don't last, and then it turns into a bad cycle. I honestly don't think there is anything a partner can specifically do to help ease these kinds of thoughts, because (most of the time) the issue is within ourselves. One thing I can thank my ex, who did end up abandoning me, for, is how well he trained me not to be clingy. I don't expect my SO to reassure me... in fact, I rarely ask for any kind of reassurance at all, and when I do, I don't believe a word of it anyway... if there's one thing I truly believe, it's that most people feel entitled to change their mind, so even if what he is saying to me is true at the moment, there;s no guarantee he won't change his mind at any given moment. There is simply no guarantee. Most of my anxiety attacks start and end in the privacy of my own home, with my SO having no clue what I'm going through. But if it's not the clinginess that will push him away, my own pushing might do it. Since I freak out as soon as I get too close, as soon as any part of my heart is at risk, it's hard to have much depth to a relationship. I know I need to seek therapy, but I'm so disorganized, and such a bad procrastinator, that it's really hard for me to make an appointment with someone and actually keep it. Edited August 21, 2010 by spookie
amerikajin Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 On some level, in one way or another, I think a fear of abandonment is what strains the majority of strained relationships in life, be they familial, friendly, or romantic relationships. People are social creatures. When we sense that someone might leave us, it's a terribly unnerving feeling.
spookie Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Another thing I was going to add that SO's can do, is be expressive of their own vulnerabilities. In my SO's emotions, I see his need for me, which makes me understand I am not the only one needing. For example, one thing I have always been insecure about in my relationship (some might say with good reason) is the fact that he started dating me while he was with another girl. As soon as my anxiety would start, I'd remember being with him, and his phone going off with her calls, which he chose to ignore. Well, the other night, we started talking about how we met, and I said, "I thought you were a douchebag," and he said, "Why, because I had a girlfriend?" and I went on on my spiel about how wrong that was. He said, "I feel absoltuely no remorse. You don't know about our relationship, how terrible it was, and all the sketchiness on her part. It had to end and I am glad that I met you." I asked him to talk about it, but he said that it was some of the most painful parts of his, and he didn't want to talk about it. Of course, I wish that he had, but that was the closest he's ever come, and now I that I udnerstand the situation better, it's easir for me to forgive his bad behaivior toward her. Not that cheating on someone who repeatedly cheated on you is right, but I see the appeal of wanting to get back at them in that way. In my book, that's bad behaivior I am more comfortable with than jumping from relationship to relationship because you found something btter, which is how I used to view it.
D-Lish Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I am admittedly effed-up. I have major abandonment issues. I believe it comes from being adopted. When I like someone, it makes me feel vulnerable- when I feel vulnerable, I start resenting the person that inspires those feelings in me. I pull away, test, punish and sabotage as a result. How has that worked out for me? It hasn't. I push everyone away. Even when I love someone like crazy, I will still act aloof, unaffected and resentful. I should be able to enjoy falling in love with someone, but instead, I actually get ANGRY at them for making me feel vulnerable. It's messed up. The only person I ever truly allowed to get close to me (romantically), was my exH. When he cheated on me almost a decade later, I put that barrier back up stronger than ever. I don't ever envision that barrier coming down again, ever. It's a lonely way to live, I wish I could work through it.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 21, 2010 Author Posted August 21, 2010 I am admittedly effed-up. I have major abandonment issues. I believe it comes from being adopted. When I like someone, it makes me feel vulnerable- when I feel vulnerable, I start resenting the person that inspires those feelings in me. I pull away, test, punish and sabotage as a result. How has that worked out for me? It hasn't. I push everyone away. Even when I love someone like crazy, I will still act aloof, unaffected and resentful. I should be able to enjoy falling in love with someone, but instead, I actually get ANGRY at them for making me feel vulnerable. It's messed up. I didn't know you were adopted, D. Do you think there's anything that an SO could do to make you feel safe, and not push them away? Or act aloof and unaffected? Do you know what it would take to let down those walls?
spookie Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I am admittedly effed-up. I have major abandonment issues. I believe it comes from being adopted. When I like someone, it makes me feel vulnerable- when I feel vulnerable, I start resenting the person that inspires those feelings in me. I pull away, test, punish and sabotage as a result. How has that worked out for me? It hasn't. I push everyone away. Even when I love someone like crazy, I will still act aloof, unaffected and resentful. I should be able to enjoy falling in love with someone, but instead, I actually get ANGRY at them for making me feel vulnerable. It's messed up. The only person I ever truly allowed to get close to me (romantically), was my exH. When he cheated on me almost a decade later, I put that barrier back up stronger than ever. I don't ever envision that barrier coming down again, ever. It's a lonely way to live, I wish I could work through it. Oh, d-lish... what you say ring so true with me. I hope you find a way to work through it.
pandagirl Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Is it really fear of abandonment, or just us wishing we could control everything to avoid getting hurt? I think this is what I struggle with. Once you've been down the road of really getting your heart broken, it's basic instinct to avoid anything that could make that happen again. I think the "fear" comes from uncertainty, and the uncertainty makes us want to control the situation, which leads to a lot of unfounded fears and imagined scenarios, which makes us feel like we should be "prepared" for the worst and thus always looking out for "warning signs." It's like preparing for a war.
D-Lish Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I didn't know you were adopted, D. Do you think there's anything that an SO could do to make you feel safe, and not push them away? Or act aloof and unaffected? Do you know what it would take to let down those walls? Well my exH stood by me while I put him through a grueling testing period. I broke up with him so many times in the first 2plus years. I got close to him, felt vulnerable, then broke up him with him. What sealed the deal for me was when he actually stood up to me and said "enough's enough, commit to me, or I can't do this anymore". The fear of losing him shook me up enough to let him in. Honestly, I know he was ultimately the one that cheated on me after almost 7 years together- but I also know that how I treated him in the first few years was horrible. To this day I feel like I deserved the slap. I care deeply, really deeply- I just have soooo much trouble letting people know it. I have so much compassion- but for some reason I am soooo good at pretending I don't. That's my armour. The men that are sucessful with me refuse to put up with my crap. They draw boundaries in the sand, and I shape up. I think your best bet, when dealing with a guy that exhibits the same behaviour is to threaten to walk away- and if it doesn't improve- you need to actually walk away. Oh, d-lish... what you say ring so true with me. I hope you find a way to work through it. I am 40 now Spookster:( I fear that I blew my chance to change. Don't be like me- and don't make the mistakes I did!
spookie Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Well my exH stood by me while I put him through a grueling testing period. I broke up with him so many times in the first 2plus years. I got close to him, felt vulnerable, then broke up him with him. What sealed the deal for me was when he actually stood up to me and said "enough's enough, commit to me, or I can't do this anymore". The fear of losing him shook me up enough to let him in. Honestly, I know he was ultimately the one that cheated on me after almost 7 years together- but I also know that how I treated him in the first few years was horrible. To this day I feel like I deserved the slap. I care deeply, really deeply- I just have soooo much trouble letting people know it. I have so much compassion- but for some reason I am soooo good at pretending I don't. That's my armour. The men that are sucessful with me refuse to put up with my crap. They draw boundaries in the sand, and I shape up. I think your best bet, when dealing with a guy that exhibits the same behaviour is to threaten to walk away- and if it doesn't improve- you need to actually walk away. I am 40 now Spookster:( I fear that I blew my chance to change. Don't be like me- and don't make the mistakes I did! No way - as long as you're kicking, there's always time to change.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 21, 2010 Author Posted August 21, 2010 The men that are sucessful with me refuse to put up with my crap. They draw boundaries in the sand, and I shape up. I think your best bet, when dealing with a guy that exhibits the same behaviour is to threaten to walk away- and if it doesn't improve- you need to actually walk away. Walking away might be good for THEM, because they protect themselves. But what about YOU? How does their threat to leave, or actually leaving, help YOU as someone with abandonment issues, trust them more and let your guard down?
torranceshipman Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) This is meant to be a general discussion, not focused on my own issues or those of the men mentioned. I just mention my issues and those of the men I've dated solely for example purposes. Admittedly, I have abandonment issues. My issues stem from abandonment as a child, as well as some sh*tty ends of relationships (both platonic and romantic). For me, in short, it has resulted in one of two things: (1) clingy, nearly obsessive behavior to those I'm emotionally attached to (earlier years), or (2) selection of partners who I don't feel as much emotional attachment towards so that I have control over the feelings of fear of abandonment (recent years). Obviously, these actions haven't boded well for my relationships. I know for some others who have admitted abandonment issues, particularly certain men I've dated, they tend to react the exact opposite from clingy: they hold everyone at a distance, maintain emotional walls, finding it very difficult to let their guard down for fear of being abandoned again. They select partners they want to be attached to, but they will not let that attachment develop out of fear. I'm not sure anyone can become entirely healed of their abandonment fear. But I do think that a SO or potential SO can do things to quell that fear, as well as things to make it rear its ugly head. Have you ever dated someone with admitted abandonment issues? How did you handle it? Yes I have. The way I handled it was to just move on quick if they acted like that, as I am too old to deal with that crap. It is boring, doesn't add to my life, and I wanted someone without that baggage. And 40 isn't old! You have another 40 to enjoy most likely (-; Edited August 21, 2010 by torranceshipman
shadowplay Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) Both you and I know this is irrational thinking, but our fears can get the worst of us. So, what you can do is write down your thoughts and what you fear. Look at them and see if they are rational. The truth is, if he doesn't call back the reality probably is: he didn't hear his phone, at the gym, at dinner, with a friend, watching a movie, busy, working, etc. Also, remember! There is never a 100% fool proof way to know if someone is going to leave you or not. This is also my biggest fear. That someone I love and trust will suddenly drop out of my life without any warning or real explanation, and unfortunately it's happened several times (including most recently). My biggest fear is not losing somebody I'm close to (as in a relationship ending) but never being able to even speak to them again, like not even having that option. Like them basically making themselves dead to me. I have huge abandonment issues, and I think I have good reason. Edited August 21, 2010 by shadowplay
Author Star Gazer Posted August 21, 2010 Author Posted August 21, 2010 The truth is, if he doesn't call back the reality probably is: he didn't hear his phone, at the gym, at dinner, with a friend, watching a movie, busy, working, etc. In an established relationship, yes. But in the dating phase, more often than not, he likely has lost interest. THAT's what kills me. My intuition has been right about that every time.
shadowplay Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 It occurred to me the other day that several of my favorite films and pieces of literature directly deal with abandonment. Spoorloos This favorite short story of mine by Shirley Jackson is a chilling portrayal of the worst nightmare of anyone who has abandonment issues: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1045359/why_anyone_attempting_to_write_ambiguous.html?cat=41 A really good, lesser-known short-short story by Stephen King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Rung_on_the_Ladder
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