All's Fair In Love And War

[Owl]

You go girl- So does this mean that it would be acceptable/normal/ok if I were to wait for OM in the parking lot with a brick? Call his boss/friends/family/church and discredit him based on the love-affair with my wife? Distribute flyers with his name/picture/address on it, informing people to beware as he is willing to engage in adulterous behavior at will?

 

That's where I struggle with the "all is fair" concept. Clearly, all is NOT fair. Only one of the three actions I mentioned above is illegal (as long as I don't lie about OM in the information I provide to others)...but all of them are clearly well beyond what an OM/OW would accept as "reasonable" behavior from a BS.

[OWoman]

That's where I struggle with the "all is fair" concept. Clearly, all is NOT fair. Only one of the three actions I mentioned above is illegal (as long as I don't lie about OM in the information I provide to others)...but all of them are clearly well beyond what an OM/OW would accept as "reasonable" behavior from a BS.

 

It might not be "reasonable", but it is understandable. Justifiable? Depends on your position. But certainly in the dog-eat-dog world of Rs, it would be fair.

[You Go Girl]

You go girl- So does this mean that it would be acceptable/normal/ok if I were to wait for OM in the parking lot with a brick? Call his boss/friends/family/church and discredit him based on the love-affair with my wife? Distribute flyers with his name/picture/address on it, informing people to beware as he is willing to engage in adulterous behavior at will?

 

That's where I struggle with the "all is fair" concept. Clearly, all is NOT fair. Only one of the three actions I mentioned above is illegal (as long as I don't lie about OM in the information I provide to others)...but all of them are clearly well beyond what an OM/OW would accept as "reasonable" behavior from a BS.

 

The whole debacle isn't fair from the get-go, is it owl?

 

Read what you just wrote, let it sink in, and gasp (I hope). This line: "clearly well beyond what an OM/OW would accept as reasonable behavior from a BS."

OM/OW accept? Just where does their acceptance play into the responsibility or decision making of a BS? The BS has the right to say, to hell with what the OM/OW deems "reasonable" or may find "acceptable" !

Exactly when and where did the OM/OW take into consideration what the BS would find "acceptable" and "reasonable"? There's no such rules here!

 

They have every right to fight for what they want as the OM/OW, if not more, because there are vows and a legal contract. That certainly however, doesn't mean they will enamour the WS with such actions, and may just embarass themselves. Then again, the BS might be rather impressed with passionate and take-a-stand attitude.

 

I stand by the truth of the saying "All is fair in love and war".

Individual outcomes may be tragic however....

Edited August 24, 2010 by You Go Girl

[OnceBitten5]

No, I don't think affairs destroy families....unless the BS lets it.

 

If the BS fights hard to keep the M intact after the A, chances are they’ll get to keep the M. The M can be preserved for all intents and purposes.

 

Whether it’s a good/better one than before or whether the two parties in the M are actually happy is debatable - my point is the “façade” of the M can remain, thus preserving the “family”.

 

If I ever decide to get out of my A with my MM, I will choose a way to cause the most amount of damage possible to the BS before I exit. Why not? All's fair in love and war right? Why shouldn't I leave my mark?

 

Good thing he keeps me happy.

 

Wow, I really hope you are kidding or just saying that for personal satisfaction. If you are thinking of throwing a match in the gas pit, you better be sure exactly how much gas is down there. Otherwise it could be much more than you expected causing an explosion and causing you lifelong burns and scars. By this I mean you better be sure exactly what type of MM you are dealing with and be sure that neither he nor his BS have a lot of close friends or any loose ties to the mob.

 

A friend of a friend of a friend (OW) did something similar becasue she was angry at the MM and tried to inflict as much damage as possible with her revelations to the BS. The MM vowed revenge and after the BS reconciled apparently they both worked together to extract revenge because some of the things that were done were in her area of expertise.

 

This has been going on for over five years now. It's like Chinese water torture because it's not constant or even frequent, but the OW is faced with occasional and significant harassments. It's like a train wreck in that I always enjoy hearing the terrible stories but I'm so glad it's not happening to someone that I know well.

 

This has really disrupted OW's life. So much so that she contacted MM to get him to admit to it and to convince him to stop. He not only denied everything and said he had no idea what she was talking about, but he laughed at her and said it serves her right and that it's karma for what she did.

 

She has no proof it's them and no way to make them stop. She hoped it would stop, but it's been going on for 5 years with no sign of stopping. Her life is hell simply because she threw the match without knowing how much gas was in the pit. When the fire will burn out is anybody's guess. However, it seems that harrassing her and coming up with new and unique ways to do it is now a favorite activity of MM and BS. I told my friends that she should thank heavens that they don't have any criminal friends or connections or else the harassments could be that much worse.

 

In any case, be careful if you are planning on starting fires because they can end up burning you and the scars can last much longer than you may expect - 5 years and going in her case.

 

Why start fires anyway? Why not just walk away and live your life? I try to live my life without creating enemies so it's disturbing for me to see someone needlessly planning to create some.

 

There can be a lot more gas in that pit than you expect...

[Dexter Morgan]

If I ever decide to get out of my A with my MM, I will choose a way to cause the most amount of damage possible to the BS before I exit. Why not? All's fair in love and war right? Why shouldn't I leave my mark?

 

wow.....just wow...

 

i really was hoping there weren't people out there like this that would want to intentionally harm someone that has done nothing to them.

[Dexter Morgan]

But if I ever wanted to drop the D-Day bomb, there are some key dates that are more appealing than others. Say...on her anniversary? I mean, the IRONY! It's definitely a thought. Because what better day than to do something like that?

 

utterly sickening.........

[LilyBart]

There can be a lot more gas in that pit than you expect...

 

Thanks for the warning.

 

Curious to know though – what kind of “harassment” has been going on towards this OW?

 

I find it hard to believe she (the OW) would not be able to get “proof” of people who have been “making her life hell”. If the harassment was so extreme.....

[ladydesigner]

Originally Posted by LilyBart No, I don't think affairs destroy families....unless the BS lets it.

 

If the BS fights hard to keep the M intact after the A, chances are they’ll get to keep the M. The M can be preserved for all intents and purposes.

 

Whether it’s a good/better one than before or whether the two parties in the M are actually happy is debatable - my point is the “façade” of the M can remain, thus preserving the “family”.

 

If I ever decide to get out of my A with my MM, I will choose a way to cause the most amount of damage possible to the BS before I exit. Why not? All's fair in love and war right? Why shouldn't I leave my mark?

 

Good thing he keeps me happy.

Wow:rolleyes: better hope your not my H's OW, I can put up a pretty good catfight. Why would you want to inflict pain on a BS? She is already being inflicted with pain by the H having an A. I am both a BS and an XMOW. I never once wished harm on my XOM's girlfriend. In the end I felt sorry for her and sorry for what I did. I knew he had a long-term girlfriend. Your statement is offensive and disturbing. Bunny boiler maybe?

[LilyBart]

Wow:rolleyes: better hope your not my H's OW, I can put up a pretty good catfight. Why would you want to inflict pain on a BS? She is already being inflicted with pain by the H having an A. I am both a BS and an XMOW. I never once wished harm on my XOM's girlfriend. In the end I felt sorry for her and sorry for what I did. I knew he had a long-term girlfriend. Your statement is offensive and disturbing. Bunny boiler maybe?

 

Nope - I'm not looking for a catfight with the BW. Wouldn't be much of a fight if I DON'T WANT the MM and the she DOES, would it?

 

As for inflicting "pain" on the BS - like I've mentioned before - I would NEVER do anything to physically harm the BS or do something considered illegal.

 

But if I'm going to make my exit, why shouldn't I let her know what she's been turning a blind eye to all these years? I have YEARS of phone calls, texts, emails, voicemails, trips, vacations, etc. Stuff that cannot be gaslighted away by the MM.

 

I certainly don't feel sorry for her and I'm not sorry for what I did/am doing (ie. having an A with her H) - so if that's "offensive and disturbing" well, *shrug*.

 

If you're offended and disturbed that I said I'm thinking of dropping the D-Day bomb on their anniversary, well, I can see why people might be disturbed. But hey, I think irony is funny.

 

And since this is a public forum, I should be allowed to express my own opinions, yes?

 

So is letting the BS know now considered being a bunnyboiler?

[crazycatlady]

No, I don't think affairs destroy families....unless the BS lets it.

 

If the BS fights hard to keep the M intact after the A, chances are they’ll get to keep the M. The M can be preserved for all intents and purposes.

 

Whether it’s a good/better one than before or whether the two parties in the M are actually happy is debatable - my point is the “façade” of the M can remain, thus preserving the “family”.

 

If I ever decide to get out of my A with my MM, I will choose a way to cause the most amount of damage possible to the BS before I exit. Why not? All's fair in love and war right? Why shouldn't I leave my mark?

 

Good thing he keeps me happy.

 

It seems here at least most WS fight to keep their marriages intact, not the BS. I was more then willing to let him go if that is what he wanted. Heck, I was pricing apartments, trying to figure out which of our debt I could take with me, find a job that would allow me to support myself, and be able to keep the kids when he was working and they weren't in school to make it easier on them....I was ready to go, I knew of his affair long before he confessed it to me.

 

He told me he loved me. He never considered leaving me. Yes he was a selfish jerk, and a lot of other things. I do love him, which was why i was willing to leave if that is what he wanted, so I agreed to not to leave then. But given he loved her too, I warned him I may go if I couldn't deal with it. And then given her treatment to me afterwards......he is is angry and does have revenge fantasies of hurting her because of her actions afterwards and how deeply they wounded me.

 

Granted our situation is a little different given the OW is my sister. However keep in mind if you attempt to hurt the BS emotionally that the WS often does love his wife, even if he's being a selfish bast***. Sure he might be hurting her himself....that doesn't mean you get to purposely hurt her emotionally out of petty spite.

 

I can forgive love....pettiness on the other hand.....no so much. I would expect that out of a teenager....not a grown woman. But then bitterness is never a pretty emotion.....BS, WS, or OM/OW....

 

CCL

[seren]

I wouldn't much rather have a war, where everyone knows the rules, the goal, the uniform of those we are warring against, over guerilla tactics where I don't know who I am fighting or even get the choice over whether I want to be involved in a fight.

 

Love is usually seen as a need or an emotion we would hope we feel at least once in our lives and is, within a relationship, hopefully based on reciprocity. We protect those we love, we have their backs, we trust. When that is understood by both as being the basis for the relationship and if it is confirmed time and time again, we believe and we fight all those who would hurt those we love. If both decide there is no longer love and part, it is fair, it is no longer fair if one has their own agenda and still gets the perks of the loving relationship covertly.

 

I would also say that I have developed a like for many of the OW/OM on these boards, but Lilybart, you ask if telling the BS makes you a bunny boiler? well no, but the satisfaction you would get from doing that on a day that has some meaning for her, is just sheer spite and not what I am used to hearing from the OW/OM on LS, so I am suprised and sort of feel a bit sorry for you, that you have such spite in your heart.

[jj33]

Lilybart it sounds like you are hurt and are lashing out at the wrong person (the BS). Why do you feel the need to hurt her further?

 

Irony is funny but IMHO calculating to tell her on the day that will hurt her most is NOT funny and its not irony its just mean and small.

 

It seems to me that the person you are angry at is the MM not the BS. He is the one who didnt leave her to make a full life with you.

 

If you view the W as the person standing in the way you are just buying into his version of things that it is somehow her fault that he lacks the cahones to leave despite what you have shared together or that she met him first and so he is tied to her and cant extricate himself from the marriage. With a soaring divorce rate we all know that is a lie. Put the anger where it belongs on him.

 

Apologies for t/j

[IfWishesWereHorses]

If you view the W as the person standing in the way you are just buying into his version of things that it is somehow her fault that he lacks the cahones to leave despite what you have shared together or that she met him first and so he is tied to her and cant extricate himself from the marriage. With a soaring divorce rate we all know that is a lie. Put the anger where it belongs on him.

 

Or on yourself for choosing to involve yourself with a man you know is married.

 

If what you want is to cause devistation I think the choice of the anniversary while ironic, maybe, is lacking. Do it just before or on Christmas. Women spend months preparing for the holidays for the enjoyment of their families. If I wanted to upset the applecart I think I would do it then and negate all of preparing, and joy of the season. Think about it, an anniversary is just a day of the year, you have the power to ruin the holiday season for her and possibly their children for the rest of her life! It'll teach her to marry a man you might one day decide to take an interest in!

[Dexter Morgan]

So is letting the BS know now considered being a bunnyboiler?

 

nope, its your attitude that you want to inflict damage on the BS that is despicable, not letting her simply know information she should have.

[OWoman]

I wouldn't much rather have a war, where everyone knows the rules, the goal, the uniform of those we are warring against, over guerilla tactics where I don't know who I am fighting or even get the choice over whether I want to be involved in a fight.

 

Seren, unless you enlist as a soldier or volunteer as a guerilla or a mercenary, you typically do not get the choice of whether or not you will be involved in a fight. In many cases, if war is declared, those fit and able are conscripted, and those at home are subject to enemy attack - none of it by their choosing.

 

Which is pretty much like love, if think about it.

[You Go Girl]

If you're offended and disturbed that I said I'm thinking of dropping the D-Day bomb on their anniversary, well, I can see why people might be disturbed. But hey, I think irony is funny.

 

 

There's some more irony here that shouldn't escape you. Do you think it's funny that there's a side of you that is unlovable?

Does that disturb you?

well if it does, eh, *shrug*

[LilyBart]

Lilybart it sounds like you are hurt and are lashing out at the wrong person (the BS). Why do you feel the need to hurt her further?

 

Irony is funny but IMHO calculating to tell her on the day that will hurt her most is NOT funny and its not irony its just mean and small.

 

It seems to me that the person you are angry at is the MM not the BS. He is the one who didnt leave her to make a full life with you.

 

If you view the W as the person standing in the way you are just buying into his version of things that it is somehow her fault that he lacks the cahones to leave despite what you have shared together or that she met him first and so he is tied to her and cant extricate himself from the marriage. With a soaring divorce rate we all know that is a lie. Put the anger where it belongs on him.

 

Apologies for t/j

 

I think you have this all wrong - or at least I don't FEEL "hurt" or that I'm "lashing out". The basis of our A is our mutual interest in a sexual proclivity that the MM's BS doesn't share (namely BDSM).

 

The OP was about "all's fair in love and war" - and my point was IF I WERE to exit out of the A I would drop my Hiroshima-level D-Day bomb. That is it. It's not to to get the MM to leave her for me but rather to get him out of my life, period.

 

I'm not angry per se - but I AM annoyed because recently he's been NEEDY and wanting too much from me. I've asked him to back off a bit...but no.

 

So if this continues, I'm going to have to take stock of my artillary.

[LilyBart]

Put the anger where it belongs on him.

 

Or on yourself for choosing to involve yourself with a man you know is married.

 

If what you want is to cause devistation I think the choice of the anniversary while ironic, maybe, is lacking. Do it just before or on Christmas. Women spend months preparing for the holidays for the enjoyment of their families. If I wanted to upset the applecart I think I would do it then and negate all of preparing, and joy of the season. Think about it, an anniversary is just a day of the year, you have the power to ruin the holiday season for her and possibly their children for the rest of her life! It'll teach her to marry a man you might one day decide to take an interest in!

 

Like I said - no anger. Just ANNOYANCE at the level of neediness he's displaying of late. He was doing a good job keeping me happy but the past couple of days....ugh! I figure the W can deal with the neediness, NOT ME. After all that's what she gets paid to do (figuratively).

 

And nope - I'm busy during the holidays. The anniversary appeals to me much more cuz it's the day he supposedly promised to uphold all those marriage vows. Holidays may come and go but there's only ONE anniversary date.

 

Spiteful? I guess. But it'll be a nice reminder every year - if the M should last.....

 

And may I remind people I HAVE NOT DONE THIS??? Sheesh! Don't get your panties all twisted in a bunch!

[LilyBart]

There's some more irony here that shouldn't escape you. Do you think it's funny that there's a side of you that is unlovable?

Does that disturb you?

well if it does, eh, *shrug*

 

EVERYBODY has LOTS of different facets to their "self". Some people are blind/scared of their darker nature and thus keep in under wraps - and IMO, restrained and stilted (usually for life). Others embrace/incorporate ALL ASPECTS of their personality and strive to become "whole".

 

What I'm thinking and posting here on LS is not something new or different. Is there a side of me that's unlovable? Of course. EVERYBODY has that side (hidden or not, admitted or not) - it's human nature.

 

And no, it doesn't disturb me.

[jj33]

Fair enough. But if hes bugging you and you decide you arent into the relatoinship anymore and prefer to play with someone else, why not just tell him to get lost?

 

Why drop a bomb? Why make a war just to get rid of someone? (unless of course it somehow fits into the dynamic between you in which case the W is a real casualty of war if she gets hurt as a result

[You Go Girl]

EVERYBODY has LOTS of different facets to their "self". Some people are blind/scared of their darker nature and thus keep in under wraps - and IMO, restrained and stilted (usually for life). Others embrace/incorporate ALL ASPECTS of their personality and strive to become "whole".

 

What I'm thinking and posting here on LS is not something new or different. Is there a side of me that's unlovable? Of course. EVERYBODY has that side (hidden or not, admitted or not) - it's human nature.

 

And no, it doesn't disturb me.

 

True enough that we all have room for improvement.

But embracing a vicious side of ourselves, instead of trying to be the bigger person, or as the doctor's mantra goes--"first, do no harm" is something you never aspire to? I have to differ that embracing such a side is a part of making ourselves "whole".

Just asking because, if self-improvement isn't a big part of life, then what are we all striving toward?

I fail to see how hurting an innocent party (and yes the BS is innocent because she has no relationship with you) betters mankind? betters YOU? Betters live for anybody, MM included?

It's like being angry at the world, so kicking a dog. A bit vengeful perhaps?

Ever think of directing that energy at the MM, or better yet, a new life?

[donnamaybe]

Spiteful? I guess. But it'll be a nice reminder every year - if the M should last.....

at the idea of someone reveling in the misery of a person who hasn't done a thing to harm them.

[LilyBart]

at the idea of someone reveling in the misery of a person who hasn't done a thing to harm them.

 

Oh, you mean kinda like in WAR?

 

Hence, nicely bringing it back OnTopic with the "love & war" thing!

[OnceBitten5]

Thanks for the warning.

 

Curious to know though – what kind of “harassment” has been going on towards this OW?

 

I find it hard to believe she (the OW) would not be able to get “proof” of people who have been “making her life hell”. If the harassment was so extreme.....

 

The list goes on an on but I'll mention a few that come to mind:

 

Physical damage: car tires slashed, car window broken, house egged multiple times, a stranger dumped a can of paint on her while walking down the street and ran, she installed a security camera to get evidence and it was covered and broken with no sign of who did it.

 

Financial damage: her identity has been stolen twice and she's still trying to get it sorted out with bills and banks so her credit has been essentially ruined until she does.

 

Embarrassment: an official looking medical results report that showed her testing positive for herpies and gonorrea was sent to a new guy she was dating. He said he believed her when she said it was fake but he broke it off soon after anyways. Also, an anonomous letter was sent to OWs parents with her picture saying "adulterer" and "home wrecker".

 

Hopefully your guy is dumb as a box of rocks which is likely given that he would get involved with someone of such low character to be planning such a horrendous act. So you may be lucky there. However, if the MM is smart, he can harass you for years and never get caught.

 

It sounds like this has been going on for quite a while. That means that MM has placed immense trust in you over that time. My guess is that he won't take such willful and horrific violation of this trust lightly. And really, what kind of scumbag does it take to do something like that, on every level - from willfully hurting an innocent BS to violating longstanding trust?

 

I'd make damn sure he has no loyal friends, no mob connections, and limited intellect before creating such a fire. But it sounds like you are young and naive, 20 perhaps, or have limited intellect yourself from your latest posts so I say you deserve the repercussions. Just don't say you weren't warned.

 

Even if he is of low intellect or not the vengeful type, I'd think that the bad karma you'd generate from such an act would hurt you eventually as well.

 

Hey, but what do I know?

[donnamaybe]

Oh, you mean kinda like in WAR?

You mean like when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and we retaliated? Oh, wait. Someone DID do something to harm us first.