john got problem Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Hi y'all. I'm not really sure if I'm looking for advice or just a way to vent my thoughts, but here goes. My wife and I have been married for 7 years (like the itch) and we have gone through a few problems but have always managed to come through them together. We don't argue much and generally get on very well. However, there are some problems which despite talking about them never seem to get any better. These are mostly centred around our sex life which although does exist, it would certainly be described as rare and lacking in variety. I have often thought about realtionships with other women but nothing has ever happened. About a year ago I began spending time in chatrooms once or twice a week just for some variety. It is exciting and fun, and although some may consider it dishonest I don't consider it being unfaithful. However, I recently met someone in a chatroom who I really get on with and who I find very sexually arousing. I am sure nothing will happen as we live in different countries but I can't stop thinking about her, when I should be thinking about my wife. The issue is complicated as I returned to full time education in order to re-train so I am financially dependant on my wife. I worry that I am staying in the marriage because I cannot afford to get divorced. Either that, or I'm just bored of being in the same old situation and I am looking for some danger and excitment. Like I said, I'm not really looking for advice, but your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated as they might help me get some perspective on the situation. Thanks again.
just_some_guy Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 This infatuation thing. When this happens, you are really just projecting the things you desire internally onto someone else, bestowing godlike power onto this other person. For online and long-distance phone relationships, this is even more so. There is nothing of the reality of this person to relate to, so everything you know of her is a projection formed in your own mind. You know nothing of her. It is infatuation and it is something that will burn itself out. Love is daily life, finding joy in living day to day with another. Love is stirring the oatmeal, to paraphrase a famous author. Truthfully, this person you think you know may not even be a woman. It could be some weird dude in his mom's basement chatting it up online, sending you pictures of "herself" that he clipped off the internet or even a clip-art CD. It wouldn't be the first time. Assuming she is really on the other end of the line, you know nothing of her. You don't know what she smells like, you don't know how she talks, how often she brushes her teeth, the way her hands move when she talks, what colors she wears, how she keeps her house or anything else. In other words, what you are getting on with is a projection from your own mind. Jung called this an Anima projection. Call it whatever name you like, but there it is. How to settle this is to turn the focus from this external person to yourself. What the qualities you find in her that excite you so much? What about her makes you think of her? What part of that is actually found within yourself?
BetweenHere&There Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 JGP - Have you discussed any of your feelings about your sex life with your wife? Let me explain though before you answer that....have you tried to throw some variety into your sex life, asked her what she likes, told her what you like? Not conversations about how often the two of you don't have sex or how "too normal" it is. What's a normal day like....is she busy with the kids and too tired? Does she not like discussing sex in the open with you? Is she shy, does she have issues with her body? The seven year itch is a difficult milestones sometimes, but not one that can't be overcome. It would be much easier to see your wife in the way you perceive this unseen person online. There is no comparison, your wife is flesh and blood....you can feel her near you, feel everything about her....this other person is just what you make up in your mind, and, as JSG infers....may not even be a woman after all.
habs53 Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Hi y'all. I'm not really sure if I'm looking for advice or just a way to vent my thoughts, but here goes. My wife and I have been married for 7 years (like the itch) and we have gone through a few problems but have always managed to come through them together. We don't argue much and generally get on very well. However, there are some problems which despite talking about them never seem to get any better. These are mostly centred around our sex life which although does exist, it would certainly be described as rare and lacking in variety. I have often thought about realtionships with other women but nothing has ever happened. About a year ago I began spending time in chatrooms once or twice a week just for some variety. It is exciting and fun, and although some may consider it dishonest I don't consider it being unfaithful. However, I recently met someone in a chatroom who I really get on with and who I find very sexually arousing. I am sure nothing will happen as we live in different countries but I can't stop thinking about her, when I should be thinking about my wife. The issue is complicated as I returned to full time education in order to re-train so I am financially dependant on my wife. I worry that I am staying in the marriage because I cannot afford to get divorced. Either that, or I'm just bored of being in the same old situation and I am looking for some danger and excitment. Like I said, I'm not really looking for advice, but your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated as they might help me get some perspective on the situation. Thanks again. What you find as not being unfaithful certainly is. So will a judge in a courtroom. Emotional affairs are grounds for divorce. If she has evidence of this your ass is fried.
What_Next Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 What you are doing is wrong. It is an emotional affair. It will destroy your marriage. My wife did it to me at least once and it is a huge part of the reason why we are divorcing. STOP this behavior now. Come clean and try and repair your marriage.
jenifer1972 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 The cyber relationship feels real but totally isn't. You and your wife need to really explore the source of this sexual desert phase you are both in and work on what each can do to get out of it. I suggest you read Mating in Captivity for some fresh ideas about how to frame long term monogamous relationships.
Author john got problem Posted August 19, 2010 Author Posted August 19, 2010 Thank you for all the replies. I suppose the problem is that I feel that I have tried to address the problems on multiple occasions over the past few years but nothing seems to ever change. We both agree that these issues exist and we both agree on a plan to address them but then when it comes to actually doing anything I feel that I am the only one making any real effort. This cycle keeps repeating itself and nothing ever changes. I have had the same thoughts about the new person that you guys have had, and I am convinced she is genuine for various reasons which I won't go into. I know I am not talking about love with this new person, but I am talking about everything which I am currently craving which is missing from my marriage. For those people that have been through this - how long do you try to work at a relationship when things don't change?
buckeye Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Sorry pal but I agree with What Next. An emotional affair is wrong. My ex W's EA lead to the death of our marriage. From the perspective of the betrayed, an EA hurts. It is a betrayal of trust.
MsV Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Hi John, I do believe emotional affairs can be the 'real' thing but technically, a lot of that depends on how long the EA has been going on. A month, or two...not 'real'. Six months...more, yeah it's getting 'real'. Of course, it's not the same as an actual affair where the two of you are meeting in person, having sex, etc. but there's definitely a connection. My best advice, tell your wife that you are starting to feel your mind stray. You say you have addressed these issues before but if she sees that your 'straying' even emotionally my guess is she might make some serious moves to change. Also, talk to her about why there is no variety in the bedroom. Is it that she is afraid to do things or that perhaps you are not giving her what she needs. If all else fails and there's no change well there's a decision you both need to make but if you're headed for an 'internet affair' I can promise you it will only snowball from there. You're not happy so address these issues now, while there's still a chance for you to work things out with your wife. Good luck
2.50 a gallon Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 An affair is an affair. You are having a sexual relationship with another woman. It does not matter that it has yet to go to physical, it is still a sexual relationship with a person who is not your wife and you are cheating on her. "Forsaking all others" do you remember? Also what about "sickness and in health" It sounds as if you wife is having problems under that heading. Sorry dude, you took them vows. You do not get to define what unfaithful means.
MsV Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 2.50 a gallon, no offense, but an emotional online affair, while I admit is still an 'affair' of sorts, is not the same as an actual physical affair where your spouse is going out every night meeting this person, buying them dinner and spending time with them instead of spending time with their kids. Believe me, I know the difference as my husband has been having an emotional AND physical affair with another woman. We are in the process of a divorce so I am not giving him a hard time about it although I made him aware that I know. But please don't compare the two as that is very unfair.
kelly1030 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Couldn't have said it better gallon...an affair is an affair, be it physical or emotional.
MovinOnUp Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I mean to each his own but nah, emotional and physical affairs are not the same. My spouse had the emotional affair over a chat group but we moved past that. First of all, how can it be real when you don't even really know someone over the internet alone. Especially if it's only been a few months. Now, the affair with the co-worker at the office...the physical affair...the lying about where they are going when they leave the house, the countless nights spent together in each other's arms, definitely a different story. Ain't saying emotional affairs can't wreck a marriage but you still have a chance to get past those...lot harder to get past the physical ones. I can attest to that. Anyone who says they are the same, never had their significant other actually cheat on them with someone they knew 'in the flesh'.
What_Next Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 MovinOnUp you are partially correct. Focus on the word affair. It most definitely isn't usually physical although they often end up that way. Sure you aren't going to get pregnant, you aren't going to end up with a STD. What you do end up with an erosion of trust. In my case my wife was involved with one EA that I found out about and another that I half found out about towards the end of our marriage. The first one eroded trust, I just could not longer trust her fully. Once trust is gone, then communication fails and the marriage will crumble. The ONLY way to repair any sort of affair is to 100% come clean, no bull****, no lieing. Then try and find your way out of the mess. You ARE having an affair, you ARE breaking your wedding vows. No matter what rationalization you may have given it, it is WRONG! Your marriage will get damaged because of it. In my particular case, even today my wife told me she wanted to reconcile and one of the reasons why I told her I did not want to was her EA and the lack of trust. I am NOT condemning you to hell or anything, but stop and think about your actions.
tank Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 JGP, Give your head a shake! stop talking to this other person and talk to your wife. Tell her you need to spice up the bedroom, or better yet, do it your self. Surprise her, make it fun. If thats your only problem then it should be pretty simple to spice it up. Give your marriage the focus that it deserves.
habs53 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Sorry pal but I agree with What Next. An emotional affair is wrong. My ex W's EA lead to the death of our marriage. From the perspective of the betrayed, an EA hurts. It is a betrayal of trust. Same here. Sometimes an emotional affair can actually be worst. Yep, trust is big time gone. When its grounds for divorce, it must be bad.
jenifer1972 Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I think I may have started a derailment of this thread by saying this online affair is "not real". What I meant by that, is "don't think that you have any inkling of who this person is if you have never met her. Most of who she is to you is a figment of your imagination." So, your idealization of her is not based on reality, but your desire to cheat is very real and constitutes an emotional affair. You need to get very frank with your wife and tell her you are not happy with the level of intimacy and expressions of caring in your marriage, and also her lack of effort, and if she doesn't make some radical changes, you will seek a separation. If this doesn't get her going, nothing will, and that tells you something too, doesn't it?
spriggig Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 These are mostly centred around our sex life which although does exist, it would certainly be described as rare and lacking in variety. As long as you're both still willing your marriage can be saved. She's not responding to you sexually because you're not cranking her engine. Why? Stop chatting with the GIGS girl and get busy trying something different to save your marriage--as opposed to repeating failed concepts. The problem probably isn't sex per se, but failure on both sides to communicate the love you have for each other in the ways that the other needs to hear it. You think the problem is you're not getting, but it's very likely you're not giving to an equal degree--at least not in the right way. I recommend http://www.amazon.com/Light-Her-Fire-Passion-Excitement/dp/0440212499 ...it seems like common sense when you read it, but I bet you haven't thought to do a quarter of what is in that book. Also, this is supposed to be good: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Mens-Secret-Lasts/dp/0802473164/
You Go Girl Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 All this banter back and forth whether EA or online is as damaging. Well how about a porn affair? Because that's what my H had, and that kind of repeated behavior with lying, sneaking, and the rest can erode trust as much as any real life in the flesh person touching you. This is about respect, honesty, trust, loyalty, and your wedding vows. Read them again.
MovinOnUp Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 You Go Girl, I'm in no way saying an EA is less damaging than a PA. Both are a betrayal of trust. For me personally, I could get over the EA my spouse had but the PA was my breaking point. Why? Because emotional (internet) affairs usually are just two people's way of connecting because they're missing that connection with their spouse - something that can be gotten back again if they both work at it. A full blown physical affair takes a lot more balls and IMO means the cheating partner has moved beyond the point of wanting to even make their marriage work (in most cases, not all) or they're just plain cheaters and in that case don't really give a crap anyway. As for your H's affair with porn, if it was to the point where there was lying and sneaking my guess is it was less an 'affair' and more of an 'addiction'. Sorry you had to deal with that.
You Go Girl Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) You Go Girl, I'm in no way saying an EA is less damaging than a PA. Both are a betrayal of trust. For me personally, I could get over the EA my spouse had but the PA was my breaking point. Why? Because emotional (internet) affairs usually are just two people's way of connecting because they're missing that connection with their spouse - something that can be gotten back again if they both work at it. A full blown physical affair takes a lot more balls and IMO means the cheating partner has moved beyond the point of wanting to even make their marriage work (in most cases, not all) or they're just plain cheaters and in that case don't really give a crap anyway. As for your H's affair with porn, if it was to the point where there was lying and sneaking my guess is it was less an 'affair' and more of an 'addiction'. Sorry you had to deal with that. Yes, I see what you mean. Every situation is unique, even with as much as they have in common from reading the threads here. An addiction for my H--sure, it is classified as such, and not an affair. I won't split hairs here over words--but some will even say that their partner's mistress is a JOB! What is interesting is that some, usually men, on LS will state that an EA is worse than a PA. Women usually view a PA as worse. Point is, everybody in these situations has lost the intimacy they once shared or believed existed with their partner to something/somebody else. Whenever it includes deceit--it is much worse. The job as a "mistress" view still hurts for those who are left out, even without the deceit. So what I feel we here on LS should focus on is that lost intimacy, and whether it can be recovered/rebuilt, and the methods to do that. Edited August 20, 2010 by You Go Girl
tornandmarried Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 i agree its cheating, less dangerous but still hurtfull...in a sence its worse cuz your making a fantasy a bigger priority than a reality....if it makes your partner jelous it feels just like cheating...now theres nothing wrong with having internet chat buddies, male or female...just let it be known your married and not intersted in any sex or lovey dovey talk....a bird in hand is worth 2 in a bush...divorce will be more painfull than deleting a person online
OliveOyl Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Not going to get into the "are online relationships real or fantasy" argument, but put it this way: they are real enough to dissolve the emotional basis of a marriage. I had a 2-year online relationship which I know contributed to the erosion of my marriage. It was definitely NOT the main/only reason but, I do know the power of online attachments. They can be very addicting. I am now separated and have also since dumped the online guy, and am finally using the time and emotional space to address issues that I had neglected. I'm pretty certain I would have gotten to the same place without the online relationship, but it was definitely a catalyst. I've also known of numerous people who have ended their marriages over online "love." It definitely happens, "real"... or not.
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