Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Silly Girl...I'm guessing here or I missed something, so tell me: I have the impression that you and your MM have had actual conversations about the idea of you telling his wife about the affair. And that he would consider this possibly preferable to he telling her himself. Am I waayyy off base here? I have mentioned it on more than one occasion and there was once an off-hand (?) response of maybe that would be the best/quickest/easiest way, I don't recall his exact words but I know it put me off the idea more than I already was at that point.
torranceshipman Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 Thanks TS, I do see your point but he's always been so 'nice' about her/them. He could say so much more. And often what I find out is through natural every day contact; "why did you not go along too?"; or "you're visiting your parents/siblings alone?". Etc etc. Just small daily stuff that really adds up to a bigger picture. And us discussing the relationships of others, or of mine, for example... things will crop up. He's never spent time trying to convince me of how bad the relationship is. Mostly because he's learned to accept is as satisfactory. He believed that once married, that's what you do, you stay married at all costs. He can talk rationally and show he appreciates that the world is not like that any more, but those fundamental beliefs (and associated fears) will still exist. Well you seem like a nice person who is not in any way vindictive, so part of telling you what you want to hear is delivering the message in the way that you would like to hear it. I should suspect you would lose respect for a man who trashes his partner. I'm just thinking how things could be spun. I mean, there are plenty of things in my R with my partner (or anyone's partner) that could be spun in a very positive or negative light, depending on how someone wished to spin the story, with gaps to be filled in the information that they know. Unless you have ALL the facts, i.e. have the W's side, and you have a birds eye view of what happens between them at home and the weekends every night, you really can't take passing comments, nuggets of information, etc, and make them into an accurate story.
2sure Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I do pay attention, but sometimes I get confused - glad I got that right. And yeah...I dont like the idea that he would allow you to be the messenger. That would only ensure that the conflict would remain between you and his wife. SG...this is nonsense. I mean, I couldnt deal with a man who was soooo non confrontational, sooo used to others making decisions, sooo used to lying rather than facing. But, you know him and you love him, so he may be the right guy for you. Still, its about more than all of those things...he sounds kind of..spineless. Life is hard. Ya need a spine. Even if you end up married to him there will be crisis, threats, obstacles ...like moves, finances, job loss, illness , etc etc....he just doesnt sound like the kind of life partner that could shoulder those burdens with you. And I'm not trying to be critical to the point of shaming your guy...its just, I mean, what if you do wind up with him in your lap????
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 Well you seem like a nice person who is not in any way vindictive, so part of telling you what you want to hear is delivering the message in the way that you would like to hear it. I should suspect you would lose respect for a man who trashes his partner. I'm just thinking how things could be spun. I mean, there are plenty of things in my R with my partner (or anyone's partner) that could be spun in a very positive or negative light, depending on how someone wished to spin the story, with gaps to be filled in the information that they know. Unless you have ALL the facts, i.e. have the W's side, and you have a birds eye view of what happens between them at home and the weekends every night, you really can't take passing comments, nuggets of information, etc, and make them into an accurate story. I completely understand that, I truly do. However, I got damn good at smelling rats in my last relationship. I can't turn my lie-dar off no matter how hard I try. I've asked for clarification on things and gone back to old communications and asked questions later, if I felt I needed to. I'm a pretty upfront person (or so I thought) and have no qualms about doing that. Also, just in response to the assertion 'unless you're there you can't possibly know/understand', it amazes me how many times my counsellor (or an LS poster!) repeats something back to me I've said, or rearranges my words and hits on such a clear truth that I may not have noticed on my own. There's definitely been an element of that happening for MM, if you see where I'm coming from.
torranceshipman Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I completely understand that, I truly do. However, I got damn good at smelling rats in my last relationship. I can't turn my lie-dar off no matter how hard I try. I've asked for clarification on things and gone back to old communications and asked questions later, if I felt I needed to. I'm a pretty upfront person (or so I thought) and have no qualms about doing that. Also, just in response to the assertion 'unless you're there you can't possibly know/understand', it amazes me how many times my counsellor (or an LS poster!) repeats something back to me I've said, or rearranges my words and hits on such a clear truth that I may not have noticed on my own. There's definitely been an element of that happening for MM, if you see where I'm coming from. It isn't about smelling a rat...it is about not being able to form a conclusion on such limited information. You simply can't take nuggets of information and then fill in loads of blanks to end up with a fair view of what is going on in their R. Right now, he is M, he is living with his W, he is going home to her every night, and shows no signs of leaving her. He gets prickly the time you mentioned you could tell the W. He has had A's before and never left. On the other side of the coin, he is having an A with you, which means he is interested in you on some level. I don't get how all this leads to a positive reflection on the situation in any way whatsoever. I'm not being mean, SG, it is just difficult to see you cut the man so much slack when he isn't doing anything for you.
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 I do pay attention, but sometimes I get confused - glad I got that right. And yeah...I dont like the idea that he would allow you to be the messenger. That would only ensure that the conflict would remain between you and his wife. SG...this is nonsense. I mean, I couldnt deal with a man who was soooo non confrontational, sooo used to others making decisions, sooo used to lying rather than facing. But, you know him and you love him, so he may be the right guy for you. Still, its about more than all of those things...he sounds kind of..spineless. Life is hard. Ya need a spine. Even if you end up married to him there will be crisis, threats, obstacles ...like moves, finances, job loss, illness , etc etc....he just doesnt sound like the kind of life partner that could shoulder those burdens with you. And I'm not trying to be critical to the point of shaming your guy...its just, I mean, what if you do wind up with him in your lap???? I can't list all the ways in which I feel he and I are absolutely so right for each other, I don't have time and some would seem trivial, some would seem odd, and it feels too personal. So you definitely do see the bad side, it's why I'm griping here! However, the bolded. I don't care he's non-confrontational, I've seen him react to me in ways he's never done before to anyone else. I hold the privileged title of being the first to truly make him angry, for example but the lying, the lying in order to not face up. That's cowardly. To me, he made his choice long ago. When I was off travelling and he said no he did NOT want to end it there, when he lied to her and visited me, when he came to my sister's wedding with me, and the private family dinner we had... To my mind telling the truth is just red tape, it's continuing on a path he started on long ago. The decision has been made and to then lie, to save upset or guilt or hurt... I can't reconcile myself to that. It's what's brought me here (this thread) rather than me sitting tight and enjoying the ride. The bolded.
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 It isn't about smelling a rat...it is about not being able to form a conclusion on such limited information. You simply can't take nuggets of information and then fill in loads of blanks to end up with a fair view of what is going on in their R. Right now, he is M, he is living with his W, he is going home to her every night, and shows no signs of leaving her. He gets prickly the time you mentioned you could tell the W. He has had A's before and never left. On the other side of the coin, he is having an A with you, which means he is interested in you on some level. I don't get how all this leads to a positive reflection on the situation in any way whatsoever. I'm not being mean, SG, it is just difficult to see you cut the man so much slack when he isn't doing anything for you. TS, I'm not trying to be obtuse but I thought you were saying that I should consider I'm being lied to, but your reply doesn't support that so I'm unsure as to what the thrust of it was, sorry. I can only go by what I see and understand, but some of my opinion-forming will be based on what he tells me, and most is based on he and I and our relationship, how WE are, how WE interact. I, personally, don't believe his married relationship gives him as much as his relationship with me does. I know I've not felt this way before and it appears to be mutual. All that adds up to is me being confused as to why he can't find the strength to leave.
torranceshipman Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I can't list all the ways in which I feel he and I are absolutely so right for each other, I don't have time and some would seem trivial, some would seem odd, and it feels too personal. So you definitely do see the bad side, it's why I'm griping here! However, the bolded. I don't care he's non-confrontational, I've seen him react to me in ways he's never done before to anyone else. I hold the privileged title of being the first to truly make him angry, for example but the lying, the lying in order to not face up. That's cowardly. To me, he made his choice long ago. When I was off travelling and he said no he did NOT want to end it there, when he lied to her and visited me, when he came to my sister's wedding with me, and the private family dinner we had... To my mind telling the truth is just red tape, it's continuing on a path he started on long ago. The decision has been made and to then lie, to save upset or guilt or hurt... I can't reconcile myself to that. It's what's brought me here (this thread) rather than me sitting tight and enjoying the ride. The bolded. There are 2 HUGE red flags here: the first is that of COURSE other people have made him angry. No-one his age gets to his age without getting angry and arguing with a SO or someone else. The second: that you actually said 'telling the truth is just red tape'. One day you will look back on this whole debacle and you will literally not believe that you ever said that!
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 There are 2 HUGE red flags here: the first is that of COURSE other people have made him angry. No-one his age gets to his age without getting angry and arguing with a SO or someone else. The second: that you actually said 'telling the truth is just red tape'. One day you will look back on this whole debacle and you will literally not believe that you ever said that! The red tape, I'm talking from MY point of view, in his shoes I'd be compelled to tell the truth and face the consequences. Oh yes, he gets irked, grumbly grumpy things, but he'd always avoid confrontation and do whatever it takes to keep the piece and not be interested in pursuing a debate or seeking a resolution. He wouldn't care enough for that. Including his wife's MM being at the marital home carrying out house repairs whilst he's out. He'd rather just keep the peace.
BB07 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 The red tape, I'm talking from MY point of view, in his shoes I'd be compelled to tell the truth and face the consequences. Oh yes, he gets irked, grumbly grumpy things, but he'd always avoid confrontation and do whatever it takes to keep the piece and not be interested in pursuing a debate or seeking a resolution. He wouldn't care enough for that. Including his wife's MM being at the marital home carrying out house repairs whilst he's out. He'd rather just keep the peace. The example above is sooooo NOT normal SG, but you know that. Sounds like a very twisted sick dynamic they both have going on in that house. Hey we've all done some twisted crazy things while in a relationship that was dysfunctional but where is the line for him? Is there a line? Are you sure you want to take on all the issues that he is going to have to work through to get to a healthy normal place? I'm curious, but when he 1st married her, did he think he was in love with her and did he think they would have a normal relationship or did he know partially what he was signing up for? (The Crazy)
2sure Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 OK SG, I get it. You love him, in spite of his faults - which is certainly a necessary part of true love. You are self aware enough to know what you can deal with. Can one of you handle confrontation enough to hold the other's hand while you do it together throughout life? Possibly sitting down together with his wife and telling her will do all of the following: Allow her to know the truth, not a version of it. Allow her to make her own life decisions based on the real truth. Allow him to face confrontation with a partner who can show him how it is done while holding his hand. Allow him to learn first hand, to feel the relief that follows truth and confrontation. Allow him to move forward making decisions without the cloud of having to lie. Allow you to deal with those decisions knowing they were made by him and if not by him - by someone who is at least dealing with the real truth and not a version of it. Now, I realize that no one in any kind of professional capacity ( therapist, lawyer, cop) would ever recommend the two of you siding up together against his BS.... But really this case is different. This MM is not capable of telling her the truth (either because he is a natural coward or natural liar, whatever) ... The only people making decisions here are YOU and the BS. He, on his own, is almost a non participant.
jj33 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) SG you've gotten so many good responses Im not sure I am adding anything new but here goes, another country heard from. It always scares me when people cant take responsibility for their actions, their feelings their choices. If he cant now, can he in the future when the two of you have conflicts in your relationship. How will he handle that? Will he feel emasculated on some level, even if he doesnt express it directly because he is an ace conflict avoider? To me a marriage is something that must be ended by the parties. If someone else does it, its just not the same. If you tell as OWoman said you are depriving him of hte opportunity to grow and to get to the point where he can act on his own behalf. Its not significant to me that he didnt mention the A to her. He said he wanted out she said Im not going anywhere and guilted him into staying (a shorthand of what I understand you have said is the situation) why would the fact that hes with you change that? She has resigned herself to living out her days with him, who knows if she will care about the A (ala the A I was in) It appears you are hoping that a sexless marriage with an H who is faithful is OK but a cheating H is not? She may not care. Would you be doing this with his consent? or would you be charging in like HIS KISA to save the day and do what he has felt unable to do? In that case it would be you and the W duking it out while he continues to sit on the sidelines of his life letting the women deal with the conflict. Taken to its logical conclusion, you would then contact the divorce attorney, make the appointments essentially lead him by the nose (or the scruff of his collar like a dog skidding on teh sidewalk) through his divorce. I assume hes not THAT hapless and I am exaggerating for effect but boiled down to its essence that is what it sounds like. Its fine for women to be the more powerful spouse in a relationship but I would really worry if you have to be the one to drop the bomb. You say you dont mind doing the heavy lifting in the relationship but this is not your burden to carry this is HIS marriage and for whatever reason he isnt taking steps to end it or to start the separation period that would lead to divorce without grounds. He caves when she says, er no that is not what we are doing (slap slap). We are staying married (you sure we arent talking about the same guy). My personal view would be dont do it. Stay with him, enjoy your relationship but dont do it. If it comes from you it may accomplish nothing and my harm all parties involved without doing any good and if it does "get you your man" it may be at a greater cost to you down the line as OWoman explained so well. The idea that telling would be altruistic because it could bring them closer is (much as I think you are fab) IMHO tosh. Its not your place IMHO. Its a last ditch effort to end your frustration with the situation - do or die. If I lose him I do but I cant live this way anymore. I know you are frustrated. Big hugs Edited to add - 2Sure and I cross posted and she said it well if you tell he is not really a participant. Its not a good situation SG. Edited August 23, 2010 by jj33
torranceshipman Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 You must be very much in love with him...he is a married guy with a wife at home, who he has cheated on with many women, and clearly he must lie his ass off to you. He's clearly very manipulative - sadly, in part, because he has had so much practice at this already. I just hope that you follow through with your plan not to be the OW anymore, one way or the other. I actually think in this situation if you can't walk away, then the W does deserve to know (personally I think she deserves the truth), and you deserve to know what is really going on. There comes a point when a guy lies so much, and that it is affecting 2 peoples lives this much, that it is worth just putting a stop to it.
BB07 Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 You must be very much in love with him...he is a married guy with a wife at home, who he has cheated on with many women, and clearly he must lie his ass off to you. He's clearly very manipulative - sadly, in part, because he has had so much practice at this already. I just hope that you follow through with your plan not to be the OW anymore, one way or the other. I actually think in this situation if you can't walk away, then the W does deserve to know (personally I think she deserves the truth), and you deserve to know what is really going on. There comes a point when a guy lies so much, and that it is affecting 2 peoples lives this much, that it is worth just putting a stop to it. I think you are mistaken torranceshipman when you are saying he cheated with many women. I don't believe SG has gave us any information of that sort about multiple cheating. Perhaps you have her mm mixed up with someone else?
torranceshipman Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I think you are mistaken torranceshipman when you are saying he cheated with many women. I don't believe SG has gave us any information of that sort about multiple cheating. Perhaps you have her mm mixed up with someone else? Sorry SG if I did...BB07 you may be right... But I do stand by everything else in that post...
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 You must be very much in love with him...he is a married guy with a wife at home, who he has cheated on with many women, and clearly he must lie his ass off to you. He's clearly very manipulative - sadly, in part, because he has had so much practice at this already. I just hope that you follow through with your plan not to be the OW anymore, one way or the other. I actually think in this situation if you can't walk away, then the W does deserve to know (personally I think she deserves the truth), and you deserve to know what is really going on. There comes a point when a guy lies so much, and that it is affecting 2 peoples lives this much, that it is worth just putting a stop to it. I never said he was a serial cheater. And he's not, to my knowledge. I don't mind if you call him a coward, a cheat, a liar, and all sorts of other things, but I thoroughly object to making him out to be some sort of master manipulator. I saw him, the first time we met, THRILLED that I even looked him in the eye as he spoke (it does not happen at home), and was interested in what he was saying. This guy is/was severely lacking in self-esteem and has let so many things pass him by because he had no idea how to address them or even that it was within his rights to do so. I could list you hundreds of instances where I've seen this aspect, and how I've seen him change over time. You say I cannot possibly know the situation, yet you claim to know better than ME, but you have not seen him interact with my son, my parents, seen him support me through grief, seen what makes him laugh, what makes him cry, watched him struggle with his inner demons and watched him learn that there are things HE wants and needs in life and he should not be just a spectator and deserves more. He has many wonderful qualities, many, he also has many flaws but I do not and will never see him in the image you have painted.
torranceshipman Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 I never claimed to know him better than you?? But anyway, I'd rather be proved wrong than right, as that would mean everything that he told you was true & that he is shortly leaving his W for you & you wouldn't have to be miserable. But seriously, there are so many red flags here. Just whatever you choose to believe-don't wait for years for this guy.
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 23, 2010 Author Posted August 23, 2010 I never claimed to know him better than you?? But anyway, I'd rather be proved wrong than right, as that would mean everything that he told you was true & that he is shortly leaving his W for you & you wouldn't have to be miserable. But seriously, there are so many red flags here. Just whatever you choose to believe-don't wait for years for this guy. You said he'd cheated with multiple women, was lying his ass off to me and is clearly very manipulative. You seemed pretty sure, hence my comment about you knowing him better than I. And waiting years, no, I won't do that. I definitely won't. There's no one in this situation that would benefit from that, in my view.
fooled once Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 My son knows MM in a relatively casual way, and that if MM doesn't take a job in our neck of the woods then MM won't be around any more because it's too much hard work dating with that distance. is what I've told him... MM is due back this week then immediately away again and we were expecting to meet up Sunday, however that depended on him having The Talk, so I just don't know. Fooled, are you of the opinion that if he doesn't tell his wife himself then she should stay in the dark? So does your son know you are dating a married man? That was what I meant by my question earlier. I do not think she should stay in the dark. She should be told by her H. I do not support you telling her as a way to force the issue. I think once you cross that line, you will forever be the one making all the decisions in the marriage (and you may be okay with that, I don't know). I personally think OW who tell do so (1) to be vengeful <due to the MM staying with the wife and not leaving (2) because they feel they are in competition with the wife and by telling the wife, they are doing doing an "in your face, I got your man", kinda thing. I don't think they do it with pure intentions, because if that was the case, they would tell her before sleeping with her husband. I don't see a problem with an OW and betrayed spouse talking after the affair is out in the open - because I bet they both have some interesting stories to tell (although from what I have read on LS <not this thread>, most of the OW would of course think the wife is lying when she reveals they have regular sex and talk of love and future). But as BB07 has shown us, many times both the OW and the BS have been lied to by the MM - he has manipulated BOTH of them. You talk of how their relationship is -- how she acts, what she says, etc. I again believe you are only hearing part of the story - his version. You talk of how mean she is to him and again, you are only hearing one side of the story. I do not understand why he didn't leave when she was having an affair. I do not get that at all. I know, I know --- I am the different one and when I make a decision, I go forward with that decision and it must be a very rare thing. just some thoughts .. from different directions in no particular order ... - in your first ever post here you said he'd gone on hols and not contacted you ... so he's done this before .... in response to this you went NC for a while but then when he did come back you let him back into your life, first with some boundries which appear to have then been dropped ........ so, why should he think going on holiday is a deal breaker ... it wasn't last time ... - when he came back you posted on here that you were going to maintain boundries. Has that happened? From what I read it looks like the only one who has maintained boundries is him .. (for all that yadda yadda, his boundries (not telling the W) remains 100% intact)) - when you let him back into your life you ALREADY knew he was married and didn't appear to want/be able to break it .... so why are you angry/frustrated with him now that he is maintaining the same boundary? (and therefore considering forcing it down ..). - He has no children with his W. I repeat that a zillion times. His is the easiest marriage to leave. - You state that he is a conflict avoider , but only with his wife. Are you sure? What about the deposit he put down on a flat with you only not to then move in. Was that deposit just his way of avoiding telling you something you didn't want to hear. - he's gone from home, to marriage ... in your own claim without thinking about it ... how does him going straight into another R (with you) make him good relationship material ... isn't it (from any angle) about time he spent some time well and truly alone to learn who he really is ...so that he CAN tell what HE thinks to people in real time ... - you took a long time to leave your ex ... but you DID leave. Undestanding someone else in the same position is fair enough ... but one must also understand that not everyone is like you ... not everyone does leave ! It could be argued that it is your very understanding and assumption that he is the same which makes you vunerable to this situation continuing. - you say you are very busy and it's summer hols .. (trust me I know what it's like) ... so what part of YOUR life is suffering because of the time you are giving to this drama ... and are you ok with that? - you came out of one abusive R and have now got involved with a MM .... if you had a friend who had done the same what would you say to them? - you say that he has now realised what a R could be like ... might it also be the other way around .. that YOU have realised what an R could be like ... but have yet to realise that he is in no position to give it to you... - you say that you are confused as to why he would stay in such a marriage. I am confused as to why you've got back so involved with someone who is married .. when you were adament you didn't want to be the OW. - sometimes we ARE wrong about people ... it doesn't make us bad (and doesn't necessarily make them bad) .. - sometimes we give people a second (3rd,4th, 99th!) chance ... it's not right (or wrong) but it is our choice ... equally at some point we may decide not to ... - vunerability is very attractive/emotionally entangling ... you don't have to be a rescuer to be sucked in to saving the helpless ... - sometimes the ONLY thing we can do for poeple is to give them the number of a marriage counselling clinic .. - you, as in SG .., only have one life .. for every minute you spend being an unpaid counsellor for someone else you COULD be working on yourself and your life ... what makes his drama more important than your life ...?? - if YOU really believe him then why not up and move you and your son to be where he is ... and if you don't want to do that then "why?" would be an interesting point to investigate ... maybe you don't want to leave your area (does he want to leave his?), maybe your not confident enough in what he says ... (again, interesting to be honest with yourself as to why ...) - your posts come across as very self-aware .... how is that going to fit with someone who (on paper) has so little sense of self that they stay somewhere unhappy for all that time ... - back to him not conflict avoiding with you ... again are you sure ... one could argue that he's managed to completely avoid real conflict with you (raising little things which have no impact doesn't count) .. raising real conflicts does (like telling you in advance he won't be contacting you from his hols) ... or coming up with Christmas, 40th birthdays etc etc in advance ... (one could argue its an outstnading way of avoiding the conflict of having to tell you he's not going to leave) .... OK, that's it ... not sure if any of it helps ... just some thoughts in random order ... Not saying dump him or don't ... just, as I said, random thoughts and observsations ... Also, no doubt I've got a zillion things wrong to pls don;t take to heart or gospel .... it's more of a brain dump of thoughts than anything else ... take anything good and bin the rest :-) Sorry one final one (cause I know you'll take it well) ... conflict avoiding .. how about someone not telling a MM that no D no relationship ... ??? be safe Chris Chris, I liked your post. I hope Silly really reads it and asks herself many of the questions you did. Thanks TS, I do see your point but he's always been so 'nice' about her/them. He could say so much more. And often what I find out is through natural every day contact; "why did you not go along too?"; or "you're visiting your parents/siblings alone?". Etc etc. Just small daily stuff that really adds up to a bigger picture. And us discussing the relationships of others, or of mine, for example... things will crop up. He's never spent time trying to convince me of how bad the relationship is. Mostly because he's learned to accept is as satisfactory. He believed that once married, that's what you do, you stay married at all costs. He can talk rationally and show he appreciates that the world is not like that any more, but those fundamental beliefs (and associated fears) will still exist. What do you mean Silly - he could say so much more? So much more bad things? How do you know them to be true? Quote below is what you said about his wife. And I am confused on why you say "when she is upset, it is because of him". Do you mean that when she gets mad, it is his fault? Like maybe he did something to piss her off? Isn't that normal in marriages LOL. I mean, when I get mad at H, it is because he has pissed me off! When she is upset it is because of HIM. She withdraws, there is tension and dramatic silence. It is clear she is in deep pain. She will not engage with him. This is a pattern built up over many years and I am giving the tiniest snapshot. She does not listen when he speaks, and barely looks him in the eye. She talks over him and disregards or belittles his views. My MM is NOT a shouter or bawler, not by a long shot. It is immensely difficult and painful for him to be in that situation. Plus the fact she has already vividly and forcefully set the scene of how abandoned and unhappy she would be, how very unfair of him and she after being such a good wife for all these years she simply does not deserve this and he should not consider leaving her. I wish MM had gumption to do this but just because he doesn't right now doesn't mean he's lying to me or himself when he says it's me he wants to be with. I never, ever said he doesn't want to be with you or that he is lying when he says it. I am sure he cares for you - very deeply. I believe if wanted to be with you, he could be with you. I honestly and truly wish nothing for you but happiness. I hate that you went back to being an OW when you didn't want to be. I do not like that the MM doesn't .... not sure of the right word here .... respect you enough (maybe) to NOT put you back in the OW category. I wish he had not contacted you again until he was OUT of his marriage. I wish you had respected the struggles you have gone through with being the OW more and not put you in that position to be an OW again (although I realize that was your choice). I hope things work out for you ... and I hope you don't let this drag out for more and more time and that if it doesn't work out, you make the clean break and begin your healing ..... sooner rather than later. I sincerely hope you take what I have written with the knowledge that I care about you and want you to be happy.
torranceshipman Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 Whatever, my last post was written with nice intentions. Anyway, glad to hear you won't wait around for a long time for him, because he is an MM who is just enjoying his A - he has no intention of leaving his W - and when words don't equal actions, then yes, you have someone who is habitually lying to you, and yes, also manipulating you, by telling you what to want to hear in order to keep you around. Who cares why he does that - weakness, no backbone, lack of character, scared of his W, loves his w, whatever.....the point is that he is M, and he doesn't want to leave his W, and surely that's all you need to know.
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 24, 2010 Author Posted August 24, 2010 Thanks for telling it how you see it.
Fight4Me Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 I have started and stopped several responses as I've kept up with this thread the past few days. Every time I start typing out my opinion, I pull back because it goes against what I would normally say. Fundamentally, I agree with those who have said he needs to be the one to tell his wife as that is certainly the most ideal way for a BS to learn that there is someone else. I just don't believe he ever will tell her, and I base that on all you've shared since you came to LS. It's not that I'm stalking you:o, but I just happen to like you as a person regardless of your OW status and try to keep up with how you are doing. Some would say that because I'm a fBS, I would have a natural bias against you, and visa versa. I've never gotten that vibe from you and I hope you haven't from me either since I purposely try to focus on your questions/dilemmas in light of YOUR situation, knowing it isn't mine. I wanted to say all of that so you know in this specific instance my opinion is with your interests in mind based on what you have shared here. I don't think your MM will ever tell her, and here is my theory as to why. You mentioned that she was unfaithful to him, and still remains somewhat in contact with OM. Given your MM's passive personality, the ONE thing he has any kind of power in their relationship is the fact that he was the one who was betrayed. He may not even consciously be holding onto this Ace up his sleeve, but I can see it as a plausible scenario if his marriage is as dysfunctional as you say it is. He could be holding onto serious resentment from years of feeling inadequate, but when she cheated, he became "the better person" and maybe he is unwilling to let go of that sliver of power. If it's subconscious, this could drag on for a lifetime. It's just a theory, though, but one I thought I'd throw out for consideration. Ultimately, from what I've learned about you so far, you won't be able to walk away permanently while this stone remains unturned. You won't be able to stay and become a content OW, either. I've already turned this post into a novel, so I'll just wrap it up with a quote from Mino who expressed what I've been thinking, particularly the parts in bold. hi Silly Girl, I say throw your cards on the table ! I mean what do you have to lose? i think the w has the right to know, and he surely hasn't had the balls to tell her himself. you ask yourself "why" he just freezes up when it comes to telling? Its a combo of fear and also for him, his situation is not sooo bad, he has a wife and he has you. Its the lesser of the the two evil, and its easier to remain in status que. Its selfishness on his part. Dont waste any more years in this triangle ! Accept whatever happens would have happened anyway. I played my mm game for years, listened to tons of excuses, heard many "soons" and watched many deadlines come and go. In the meantime they celebrated every holiday today while I was alone. christmas is only months away......take control of your life again!!! Dont be the bench sitter, Dont baby him, he needs to take some kind of responsiblity too. Change the rules of this A! Trust me, after almost 6 years, I would have changed many things early on and not have suffered years if I would have know then what I know now.. i wish you strength and finally Peace! mino SG, I really do wish the very best for you, whatever that may be (we all have our opinions on what that is, but only God knows). Ultimately, I pray for clarity and peace for you.
BB07 Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 I have started and stopped several responses as I've kept up with this thread the past few days. Every time I start typing out my opinion, I pull back because it goes against what I would normally say. Fundamentally, I agree with those who have said he needs to be the one to tell his wife as that is certainly the most ideal way for a BS to learn that there is someone else. I just don't believe he ever will tell her, and I base that on all you've shared since you came to LS. It's not that I'm stalking you:o, but I just happen to like you as a person regardless of your OW status and try to keep up with how you are doing. Some would say that because I'm a fBS, I would have a natural bias against you, and visa versa. I've never gotten that vibe from you and I hope you haven't from me either since I purposely try to focus on your questions/dilemmas in light of YOUR situation, knowing it isn't mine. I wanted to say all of that so you know in this specific instance my opinion is with your interests in mind based on what you have shared here. I don't think your MM will ever tell her, and here is my theory as to why. You mentioned that she was unfaithful to him, and still remains somewhat in contact with OM. Given your MM's passive personality, the ONE thing he has any kind of power in their relationship is the fact that he was the one who was betrayed. He may not even consciously be holding onto this Ace up his sleeve, but I can see it as a plausible scenario if his marriage is as dysfunctional as you say it is. He could be holding onto serious resentment from years of feeling inadequate, but when she cheated, he became "the better person" and maybe he is unwilling to let go of that sliver of power. If it's subconscious, this could drag on for a lifetime. It's just a theory, though, but one I thought I'd throw out for consideration. Ultimately, from what I've learned about you so far, you won't be able to walk away permanently while this stone remains unturned. You won't be able to stay and become a content OW, either. I've already turned this post into a novel, so I'll just wrap it up with a quote from Mino who expressed what I've been thinking, particularly the parts in bold. SG, I really do wish the very best for you, whatever that may be (we all have our opinions on what that is, but only God knows). Ultimately, I pray for clarity and peace for you. Great post fight4me, and the part I bolded above, you may be on to something there. I hadn't thought of it that way but it does make sense. It's certainly something for SG to consider. I also agree with Mimo's post. SG.......I hope you are doing OK. I'm thinking about you and I'm sending you big hugs..... BB
Author Silly_Girl Posted August 24, 2010 Author Posted August 24, 2010 I've had loads of kindness and sincerity on this thread, I am REALLY grateful because it's meant I've been better able to see the points put across. I am reading, and re-reading. I want to do whatever I decide to do once and once only and to be as sure as I can. I am now not far from where I have been previously and I'm cross with myself about that. One of the reasons I had thought about telling his wife was to 'burn my bridges'. To put myself in the position whereby there is no return. I feel his wife deserves to know (from him, but if not then from me) and that will most likely lead to my ending contact with MM forever. Hence, no third chance for MM and I. However, I still believe he will leave her one day. I believe that firmly. What I cannot be sure of is whether it's next month or ten years time, and that's where the self-preservation must kick in. I know I've said it before but I am so grateful, for all the posts, comments AND the hugs. Need a hug right now Many thanks
BB07 Posted August 24, 2010 Posted August 24, 2010 Limbo is hell SG.....it really is. I get how you feel, you so much want to do the right thing, not only for you, but for MM and even his wife. It's a really sucky position to be in and I wish I had a crystal ball for you. Another big hug.........to ya.
Recommended Posts