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Letting my bias show again..... Special things your spouse does for you....

Toodamnpragmatic

By Toodamnpragmatic
in Marriage and Life Partnerships

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nddb Established Member

nddb

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Wow, you guys do a lot.

 

I don't cook, clean, or pay the bills. Not unless I want to do it as a couple activity or there's a big decision to be made jointly.

 

I do the little romantic things that she likes (notes, flowers, massages, texts). I do the trash (not consistently) and for other heavy stuff (fixing cars, doing the yard, etc.). If we get swamped, we hire neighborhood kid to help out. Oh, and I earn 100% of the income.

 

The inlaws, bless their traditional hearts, think I'm overindulging my wife with all the romantic things and she's kinda proud of that. She herself thinks she's not doing enough for me. So there's imbalance in what I do in terms of housework (and she wants it that way since she lords over the house and the people we hire to help out), there's is imbalance in terms of earning (I earn a living for both of us), and there is imbalance in what she receives in terms of romantic gestures. It works for us.

 

Now since she does most of the housework or at least supervises the rest, may be we're just deluding ourselves and she needs to come on LS so the ladies here can tell her how oppressed and unhappy she really is. J/K.

mem11363 Established Member

mem11363

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TDP,

Read your original post - see below.

 

I will summarize it:

- I have a great wife - well except that she is selfish and takes and takes and doesn't appreciate what I do for her and does very little/nothing for me.

 

Based on your description and your many prior posts she is not a good wife by any reasonable standard.

 

- I have a great marriage - well except for the fact that my W has little respect for my feelings, my needs, etc.

 

Based on your description and your many prior posts this is not a "happy" marriage for you nor a particularly healthy one. You don't really understand your W, why she does what she does and more important why she "doesn't"

do what you logically think she should in terms of sex.

 

It is great that you are "in love" with your W. The reality is that you have not figured out how to get her to be "in love" with you.

 

You have a tremendous desire to "please" her, she has little desire to please you. I don't see that ever changing because to change that pattern you would have to temporarily destabilize the marriage and it appears you are too afraid that doing so might result in ending the marriage.

 

 

I have a great wife, and a good marriage (repeat that over and over)..... I think and know I do many things for her that are special (gifts, flowers, organizing getaways for us and her, driving to appointments she can do herself, picking up when she is out with friends and had a drink or two, getting things, cleaning, prepping something special, buying gifts for the heck of it.....). I also put thought into anniversaries, birthdays.... No I am not perfect, however feel I am fairly low maintenance and expect very little......

 

But I can't think the last time she did anything for me (outside bringing home maybe a dessert or leftovers if she is at a dinner party).

 

Is this a one-sided relationship or do other spouses feel this way or see this as a pattern in their marriages? I read the article posted in the Infidelities section on wives planning or leaving marriages to seemingly great spouses and think these men are all lost as to why it happens and the little things they thought they were doing to keep the marriage happy but got little credit for?

 

Again I am happy, but think this is a male thing and women generally come to expect this as a given.

 

Know this may stick in many a woman's craw, but think this is fairly typical of males.

mem11363 Established Member

mem11363

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X,

Your marriage and TDP's are at opposite ends of the spectrum. You are "in love" with H and he with you. You consistently post "happy assertive" so your interactions with him not only produce happiness for you, it is obvious that the overall interaction pattern is good for your self esteem.

 

You are the poster child for a happy marriage. As for balance - when my W worked full time I did more housework, when I worked full time and she was a SAHM, she did more housework - ok a lot more than I did - I was not a great house husband which is why I have gone back to work.

 

You seem to have little to no resentment about your marital split, TDP is the poster child for resentment.

 

 

He actually read it! And responded!

 

His response: "Take off the panties." :o

 

Basically, he thinks this is the man's job in a relationship, and he's comfy with that.

 

I asked what he gets in return.

 

His response: "You." :love:

 

 

 

haha, no, he agrees I do almost all of it. I'm home during the day, so what else am I going to do? :)

giotto Established Member

giotto

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I used to do everything - cleaning, cooking, paying the bills, the lot - but now I just cook, do the shopping and pay the bills... but I work 7 days a week now, and the wife works 4 days a week...

 

Wife "forgot" to buy me a birthday present last time 'round... :(

Edited by giotto
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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

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How bad my marriage is......:D;):laugh: And yes we all know how perfect xxoo's is....

 

Frankly I know there is a huge imbalance, but nddb and others understand the point of the OP, which is to reflect and ask a question when I was on a little low, not to pile on and comment on how bad a marriage I must have.

 

My wife certainly has issues, suffers some depression at times and is certainly very pig headed (again at times)..... But please stop trying to convince me how bad a marriage we have (which is not the case).

 

Yes plenty of room for improvement, and that is why I am here to learn at times, and use LS as a sounding board and offer advise.

 

Happy to know I am not alone......

giotto Established Member

giotto

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forgot to mention about what my wife does for me, personally... well, not much! She buys me presents, occasionally, but not when it's my birthday, obviously... :D She does a lot for the family, though...

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

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You seem to have little to no resentment about your marital split, TDP is the poster child for resentment.

 

But why?

 

Honest question, because I sometimes wonder if H and I would be considered poor partners if we were suddenly dropped in a different relationship, based on different expectations and perspectives.

 

The "special things your spouse does for you"....I guess we treat it as extended wooing. He woos me, not the other way around. His reward is the same as it was when we were dating: a joyful, in love, me! I could make a long list of the special things he does to show his love for me.

 

It is harder for me to list how I show my love for him, but it would be obvious if you lived in our home. I seek out his touch, his kiss, his hugs many times a day. Sex certainly falls in here. I consider his preferences in my style of dress and hair, although I mostly wear "comfy clothes" around the house. I show my love with words, but I also know he doesn't prefer that mode of showing love :p. I know he considers my care for our children to be caring for him, because their care is so important to him. I feel the same way when he cares for our children (he's a very involved dad).

 

TDP, how does your wife show her love for you? How would she say she shows her love for you?

 

You've said that she is attractive and has stayed in shape, which is important to you. Do you think her efforts in this area are a way that she's consistently shown her love for you over the years?

 

If H and I flipped the script.....if I were married to someone who fawned on my physically but didn't woo me.....if he were married to someone who did special things for him but was stingy with touch....we would both be dissatisfied.

blair08 Established Member

blair08

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"TDP is the poster child for resentment."

 

I can't help but wonder if his wife feels resentment as well, and maybe thats why things are they way they are at times. Maybe her resentment isn't expressed in words but in actions.

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

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"TDP is the poster child for resentment."

 

I can't help but wonder if his wife feels resentment as well, and maybe thats why things are they way they are at times. Maybe her resentment isn't expressed in words but in actions.

 

But most things are out of her control or she does little about them. There are a number of things I can't (won't) articulate, because they come off making her look bad the way I'd convey them. She really is conflicted and has issues that when she is unhappy can manifest themselves in a negative way. When she is happy, things are very good.....

 

My wife does love me, but she does go through a significant amount of issues which she has to work through and demons she battles. The good news is that we are happy and you know, she could decide to be unhappy, like we read so many women on this site are and then I'd be here posting about the "Walkaway wife"....

 

As for xxoo, her fitness and attractiveness is for her and her only (and I also claim for her next husband)..... She is vain about it and it is her passion and important. I also freely admit my own vanity and that I am thrilled how she looks, but promise that she does it purely for herself..... Again her issues.....

 

I've told her if she dislikes me pawing and wanting sex so much to go ahead and put on 40 lbs...... I'll stop bothering her as much about sex and will about her losing weight....

Edited by Toodamnpragmatic
blair08 Established Member

blair08

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Todd, has she ever told you what those resentments are that she has?

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

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Todd, has she ever told you what those resentments are that she has?

 

as they fester..... But again we have a pretty good marriage, certainly lucky and blessed with good kids, health, little debt, cash in the bank..... As usual I look at the cup half full, she looks at it at times as half empty, which is a dark way to look at life.....

Edited by Toodamnpragmatic
JackJack Established Member

JackJack

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as they fester..... But again we have a pretty good marriage, certainly lucky and blessed with good kids, health, little debt, cash in the bank..... As usual I look at the cup half full, she looks at it at times as half empty, which is a dark way to look at life.....

 

I didn't see where you answered anything about her resentments and what they were.....I'm assuming none of them are towards you? She just has unresolved issues about other stuff that she takes out on you?

carhill Established Member

carhill

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Something to consider.... with all those positives, and I can admit some envy, there is still apparently expressed and unexpressed resentment on both sides. Imagine if your M faced a major life crisis like death, illness, bankruptcy, etc. What would happen to the *team* then?

 

TBH, stbx and I could've gone on for years if everything in our lives was as described in the preceding post. We'd have just coasted along and probably both enjoyed the ride and put our incompatibilities on the back burner. To me, the ability to remain constant in doing those 'special things' for one's spouse, even in the face of life challenges and crises, defines one's own psyche. That perspective sustained me during some pretty dark times.

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

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I didn't see where you answered anything about her resentments and what they were.....I'm assuming none of them are towards you? She just has unresolved issues about other stuff that she takes out on you?

 

And know I am not teflon and blameless.... But for the most part I am pretty decent and sometimes do take the brunt where it is admitted not my fault/problem.

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

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What is the general ratio between good times and bad? Are there predictable triggers for her mood changes? Maybe it would help to keep a journal so you could see the bigger picture in general patterns--just for yourself.

carhill Established Member

carhill

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Good suggestion on the journal. I kept one (on the computer) while in MC. It really helped clarify timelines and relevant feelings when I was struggling emotionally. The black and white of text helped. Also, when I was being gaslighted, I could go back and examine my own perspective to look for consistencies (or the reverse). This had a centering effect. The OP's dynamic is necessarily different, but a journal has my support. Journal the special things your wife does for you, as a balance. :)

mem11363 Established Member

mem11363

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Seems to me that the ultimate measure of love is a sincere desire to please. That includes loving yourself as well. And the ability to love is the combination of that desire, with the skill to translate it into actions that are effective.

 

The desire is all well and good, but if your partner claims to have a never ending list of reasons why they aren't able to actually "do" what you want/need - ultimately it doesn't matter how they feel. What matters is what they do.

 

 

Good suggestion on the journal. I kept one (on the computer) while in MC. It really helped clarify timelines and relevant feelings when I was struggling emotionally. The black and white of text helped. Also, when I was being gaslighted, I could go back and examine my own perspective to look for consistencies (or the reverse). This had a centering effect. The OP's dynamic is necessarily different, but a journal has my support. Journal the special things your wife does for you, as a balance. :)
carhill Established Member

carhill

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Did she really want the breakfast every morning? Was acts of service top on her list?
Sorry I missed this one. TBH, I don't think she really cared one way or another. *However*, being married, from experience, I knew, if she didn't eat, her blood sugar would drop and she'd become a total b!tch and her first client would get that, because I had, many, many times. So, perhaps in contradiction to what she might *want*, I gave her what she *needed*, out of love and out of a sense of self-preservation ;)

 

Your point is perfectly valid though. It's entirely possible that certain acts held no meaning whatsoever. They didn't compute as acts of love. In those areas my work lay, learning to communicate better, especially in a language which made sense to her, which was, for her, simple and direct. She didn't like 'details'.

 

Oh, aha, another 'gift' I received was her strong suggestion that we see a counselor and she made that happen after I agreed, finding one that she thought could 'handle' me :D. That process is probably the best gift she ever gave me; the gift of clarity and acceptance. It freed my soul. In all endings there are beginnings :)

 

Seems to me that the ultimate measure of love is a sincere desire to please. That includes loving yourself as well. And the ability to love is the combination of that desire, with the skill to translate it into actions that are effective.

 

Mem, your words ring true to me; what I learned is we each have our unique and natural *style* of loving, both others and ourselves. What I didn't understand in the period leading up to marriage was, beyond obvious compatibilities, it was these elemental emotional and psychological compatibilities which were and are so important. Ultimately, it was these aspects of our relationship which fractured it, helped along by unfortunate and untimely life changing events. Anyone who sees us together, as the mediator will tomorrow, will wonder why we're getting divorced. Simply, this elemental incompatibility irreparably fractured the emotional bond, so there's no glue to hold the otherwise fairly sturdy box together. The MC saw it clearly; attempted, but failed to find that glue again. It sounds like the OP, even with his marital issues, still has that glue. Good on him :)

Edited by carhill
BlackLovely Established Member

BlackLovely

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Is this a one-sided relationship or do other spouses feel this way or see this as a pattern in their marriages? I read the article posted in the Infidelities section on wives planning or leaving marriages to seemingly great spouses and think these men are all lost as to why it happens and the little things they thought they were doing to keep the marriage happy but got little credit for?

 

good question, but I don't really think it boils down to one sex being better about being considerate or attentive, because I've known men who go out of their way to show their partners how much they care about them by doing those little things.

 

there's a book by Jodi Picoult about a couple impacted by the husband's affair with her employee. While she's still in the dark about the other relationship, she meets her husband's cousin, who tells her "it's 60/40" and she has no idea of what he's talking about.

 

the percentages, he said, are how much a partner gives to a relationship, and rarely is it ever a 50-50 mix, because there is always going to be one person who loves more. And I think there's a lot of truth to that – it's a fluid thing, but I believe that there is always one person who is going to go the extra mile to show how much he or she appreciates his/her partner, and the other one is merely going to be the recipient of those thoughtful actions.

 

that said, you've got to be aware of the different ways there are to show love to someone – The Five Love Languages is a fantastic book that talks about this stuff, and points out that if we just take the time to learn our partner's language, we can make huge improvements to the relationship because we come to realize the other person isn't cold or inconsiderate or hateful ... he/she just has a different style of showing that love.

 

Well said. My fiance and I have different love languages. Mine are Touch, Words and Quality Time, in that order. Mr. BlackLovely, on the other hand, favors Acts of Service, Quality Time and Gifts. Think there might me some conflict there?? :D

 

Also, it helps to look at your partner's family and they way they express love. People will often adopt what was modeled to them. I grew up in a family with many kisses and hugs, as well as "I love you" spoken as a goodbye. By contrast, Mr BL grew up in a very stiff upper lip, no weeping at funerals family.

SpanksTheMonkey Established Member

SpanksTheMonkey

Posted
Posted

 

Know this may stick in many a woman's craw, but think this is fairly typical of males.

 

Were not married but actually its the other way around in our relationship I do more for him then he dose for me per say. I generally have to ask him if he can do so and so for me witch once asked he doesn't mind 9 times out of 10.

 

But I don't expect him to do things for me just because I do for him. I do them because I love him and want to with out NEEDING anything in return its completely unselfish love. Not that your a selfish person op I was just trying to get an idea across hope I didn't offend..

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

Posted
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Sorry I missed this one. TBH, I don't think she really cared one way or another. *However*, being married, from experience, I knew, if she didn't eat, her blood sugar would drop and she'd become a total b!tch and her first client would get that, because I had, many, many times. So, perhaps in contradiction to what she might *want*, I gave her what she *needed*, out of love and out of a sense of self-preservation ;)

 

Your point is perfectly valid though. It's entirely possible that certain acts held no meaning whatsoever. They didn't compute as acts of love. In those areas my work lay, learning to communicate better, especially in a language which made sense to her, which was, for her, simple and direct. She didn't like 'details'.

Oh, aha, another 'gift' I received was her strong suggestion that we see a counselor and she made that happen after I agreed, finding one that she thought could 'handle' me :D. That process is probably the best gift she ever gave me; the gift of clarity and acceptance. It freed my soul. In all endings there are beginnings :)

 

 

 

Mem, your words ring true to me; what I learned is we each have our unique and natural *style* of loving, both others and ourselves. What I didn't understand in the period leading up to marriage was, beyond obvious compatibilities, it was these elemental emotional and psychological compatibilities which were and are so important. Ultimately, it was these aspects of our relationship which fractured it, helped along by unfortunate and untimely life changing events. Anyone who sees us together, as the mediator will tomorrow, will wonder why we're getting divorced. Simply, this elemental incompatibility irreparably fractured the emotional bond, so there's no glue to hold the otherwise fairly sturdy box together. The MC saw it clearly; attempted, but failed to find that glue again. It sounds like the OP, even with his marital issues, still has that glue. Good on him :)

 

Very good point Carhill.... Some acts of love (respect) are completely missed or not understood. My wife I don't think worries too much when she makes plan and whether it affects me. I on the other hand do limit, cancel and decline invites, because I want time with my spouse and family and know it may bother my spouse. As for the breakfast or coffee, yes I have it ready every morning (she has practically never). She will claim she can do it, thus it really does not count as an act, as she is capable to do the same. I will say if I can clean the house to a 6 (10 scale), which is fine by me, to then clean it to an 8.5-9 (her minimum standard) is an act of love.....

 

We have had a number of fight of late when I try and explain how to better organize a day and get more done and be happier. We had a knock down drag out, when I suggested she shift an appointment to later in the day (not 7:30 am) so she can sleep in as she is exhausted of late. She snapped that I was dictating her life..... She loves to cut me off....

 

That said she shows love in a different way and as the other half I have to understand that, rationalize it and accept it or not.

carhill Established Member

carhill

Posted
Posted

TBH, TDP, today, if faced with such things, I'd just care less and go about my business. Love and marriage is a two-way street and when there's too much traffic going one way, it's unhealthy. I'd say 'hon, you're right; I'm all up in your business. That stops, right now' and then go off and do my thing, not in anger or resentment, but in acceptance. In our M, I mistakenly thought being engaged, interested and attentive was a 'special thing'; it was not. It was annoying. That's one dynamic. IMO, it's understanding the dynamic, its health, and the relative compatibility which is important.

 

Short of a few specific moments like when the lawn mower flew out the back of my truck, stbx and I never had 'knock-down, drag outs'. For her, they were a reminder of her childhood so she avoided them; for myself, my parents never dealt with conflict that way, rather handled things calmly. If anyone was the 'irrational' one in the house, it was me :D. Again, this underscores important *differences*, which are normal for everyone in a marriage. Some can be resovled and built upon, and are even healthy. Some can erode and destroy. Each dynamic is different.

 

Like Mem said or inferred, it's when one clearly sees that their spouse is not even *trying* to share their love in the language which is clear to the other, proactively, that one begins to question the 'glue' of the marriage, the *desire* for intimacy, connection, and being a team. All the special things in the world take on a different meaning.

giotto Established Member

giotto

Posted
Posted

Like Mem said or inferred, it's when one clearly sees that their spouse is not even *trying* to share their love in the language which is clear to the other, proactively, that one begins to question the 'glue' of the marriage, the *desire* for intimacy, connection, and being a team. All the special things in the world take on a different meaning.

 

yes, our "glue" dried up pretty much early on, but I failed to notice it... to me, it was just the way my wife was. I failed to spot all the warning signs at the beginning of the relationship... actually, I knew they were there, but I was in love. When we got down to the nitty-gritties of everyday life, with children, full time jobs, cats, cars, mortgages and the lot that things started to crumble. I still can't believe it did, but I'm pretty sure we stayed together because I refused to give up. But it was indeed one-way traffic, because I wanted my wife and she was rejecting me. I suppose I only made things worse... we definitely weren't sharing the same love language...

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted
We have had a number of fight of late when I try and explain how to better organize a day and get more done and be happier. We had a knock down drag out, when I suggested she shift an appointment to later in the day (not 7:30 am) so she can sleep in as she is exhausted of late. She snapped that I was dictating her life..... She loves to cut me off.....

 

Being honest....I don't respond well to anyone telling me what I'm doing wrong and how to do it "better". Neither does my H. Most people don't, I'm guessing. If she used the word "dictating", she is telling you she feels controlled. You are now entering the brutal world of power struggles, where everyone is a loser :o

 

The approach that works for us, peacefully, is expressing concerns while eliciting the partner's ideas to solve the problem. Even if you have the "perfect" solution in mind already (moving the appt), see what ideas she has.

 

For example:

 

"I'm concerned because you've been exhausted lately, and we haven't had much fun time together. How can we reschedule things so that you can get some more rest?"

 

Once she throws out some ideas, you can throw out some of yours--just as more "ideas"...not as "the ultimate solution".

 

As long as she gets enough rest, and you get enough time together, it really doesn't matter when the appt is, right? So put out those concerns, and see what solutions you can come up with together.

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

Posted
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TBH, TDP, today, if faced with such things, I'd just care less and go about my business. Love and marriage is a two-way street and when there's too much traffic going one way, it's unhealthy. I'd say 'hon, you're right; I'm all up in your business. That stops, right now' and then go off and do my thing, not in anger or resentment, but in acceptance. In our M, I mistakenly thought being engaged, interested and attentive was a 'special thing'; it was not. It was annoying. That's one dynamic. IMO, it's understanding the dynamic, its health, and the relative compatibility which is important.

 

Short of a few specific moments like when the lawn mower flew out the back of my truck, stbx and I never had 'knock-down, drag outs'. For her, they were a reminder of her childhood so she avoided them; for myself, my parents never dealt with conflict that way, rather handled things calmly. If anyone was the 'irrational' one in the house, it was me :D. Again, this underscores important *differences*, which are normal for everyone in a marriage. Some can be resovled and built upon, and are even healthy. Some can erode and destroy. Each dynamic is different.

 

Like Mem said or inferred, it's when one clearly sees that their spouse is not even *trying* to share their love in the language which is clear to the other, proactively, that one begins to question the 'glue' of the marriage, the *desire* for intimacy, connection, and being a team. All the special things in the world take on a different meaning.

 

I am trying to rationalize. What I do and have to stop is try and engage at times what I think is a comment as clear as day, that she just can not see..... For me her being cranky (when she does not get enough sleep) affects all of us, so I mistakingly think there is a an alternative better for everyone and I should just accept the crankiness and wait for it to pass (like the occasional storm)......

 

To me it makes no sense whatsoever, but I need to adapt to it.....

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