U.S Women vs Foreign Women

[Woggle]

I can see where you are coming from with this, but this thread was started by a man and is titled in a confrontational manner, 'Foreign women V US Women' which screams insecurity on the part of the OP. In the same way that the fat threads, single parent threads, ugly man, small penis threads do.

 

It's just showing laziness and peanut munching Madame Guillotine mentality on all our parts somewhat by posting and responding without ever getting anywhere. It only really matters in our own personal relationships with the people we love.

 

I can see why some women on here take offense to the OP but I understand where it comes from. He probably has had one too many bad experiences with women. I just think any couple in order to have a successful relationship should realize they are on the same team and in it together. They should both work on doing right by each other. I don't know why some women find this idea so offensive.

[Green]

An American went to our school when I was 11 and he was beaten up every single day he was at our school and left after four months. Americans by in large aren't liked in Britain.

 

Thats funny because an English boy went to my school when I was 11 and when he asked "is it time for tea and crackers yet?" We all laughed at him... then the the kindagarten kids beat him up.

[AverageJoe]

Bringing it back to the OP, he isn't offering these women anything long term. He wants dedication and sacrifice without offering anything up.

 

Quote me where I said those words.

[Woggle]

Thats funny because an English boy went to my school when I was 11 and when he asked "is it time for tea and crackers yet?" We all laughed at him... then the the kindagarten kids beat him up.

 

And we wonder why this world if filled with hatred and prejudice. People learn it at a young age.

[zengirl]

I respect most of the opinions you posted here in response to my post, but there is one I want to comment on.

 

I find it very interesting that you used the phrase “The best sort of man to me includes one who is fully on board protecting the rights of all people in a community to do what they like”. The reason it is interesting to me is that I never said anything about people not having rights, about me taking away rights, or me not supporting rights. I actually went pretty far out of my way to make it clear I was fine with a woman doing anything she truly wanted to do.

 

The fact that you read the message I wrote and felt like you had to bring rights into it, I think, supports my basic point about the tendencies of feminist lines of thought. I just feel like you are way too worried about rights, when that's not really the best question to ask. It seems like whenever a man tries to question the “new” gender roles, rather than honestly and sincerely answering the question many women will go off on a tangent about rights without answering the actual question.

 

Of course it is a woman's right to work in any career she wants, I made that clear. The question I asked is whether that really makes sense for her to do for her own good.

 

My point is -- There's no reason to question "new gender roles" if you feel I fully deserve the same rights as anybody else and have the same full capacity for intelligent personal choice. It's best for my own good that gender roles be fluid and that people have personal freedom instead of archetypal slots to fill. There's no reason to ask, "Is that best?" if you fully respect people's rights to do as they please. They'll do what's best for them. This line of questioning is condescending at best or threatening at worst. Now, that said, as I said: I've no issue with what any individual chooses to do personally, whether it seem old-fashioned or new-fangled or anything in between. But, when you bring up the line of questioning in a broad sense, you ARE challenging my rights, maybe not legally, but at least sociologically. You are challenging the mindset that I deserve to fill any darn role I please and can want any darn role I please and that any darn role in the world might just be best for me. Trying to decide what's "best for people" as a large socio group isn't respecting their rights. Now, when you talk about individuals -- like "What's best for me?" or even "What's best for my daughter?" (though each person does need to decide for themselves; things like this are natural) that's different. I'm not saying you consciously mean to do this. I'm sure many men and women who do this think they fully support a person's rights and freedoms, but you are actively questioning it by wanting to create or return to roles, as a society.

Edited August 15, 2010 by zengirl

[AverageJoe]

Bringing it back to the OP, he isn't offering these women anything long term. He wants dedication and sacrifice without offering anything up.

 

I am still waiting to be quoted for these words.

[that girl]

I can see why some women on here take offense to the OP but I understand where it comes from. He probably has had one too many bad experiences with women. I just think any couple in order to have a successful relationship should realize they are on the same team and in it together. They should both work on doing right by each other. I don't know why some women find this idea so offensive.

 

This idea is not at all offensive. But pitting women against each other based on nationality and their willingness to serve men is a very different thing that doesn't recognize women are people with their own wants and needs.

 

I think you are giving the OP too much credit. Not everyone needs a bad experience to be a selfish jerk.

 

Quote me where I said those words.

I previously asked in this tread what you offer and you didn't respond.

 

You have also said you aren't interested in marriage, which is what most traditional women want so that is a major thing not to be offering.

[Woggle]

Every misogynist I know is that way for a reason. Not saying misogyny is a good thing but most men I know become that way because they have had too many bad experiences.

[zengirl]

Every misogynist I know is that way for a reason. Not saying misogyny is a good thing but most men I know become that way because they have had too many bad experiences.

 

And if a misandrist becomes that way because of her bad experiences? Does that make it okay?

 

I'd say no. Which is why I say the same thing about misogyny.

[that girl]

Every misogynist I know is that way for a reason. Not saying misogyny is a good thing but most men I know become that way because they have had too many bad experiences.

 

Aren't you a misogynist with a wonderful, loving wife who has no idea the kind of hateful things you say about women online?

[AverageJoe]

I previously asked in this tread what you offer and you didn't respond.

 

 

Actually I did, I made it clear they were treated in kind. Maybe not to you specificially but it was there.

 

Correct, I dont want a relationship, so where did I say I wanted dedication?

 

Again, quote me where I said those words you so eloquently pointed out.

[Enchanted Girl]

It's interesting to me that I never said anything about finding a woman who was “inferior” to be attractive. That's your word. I think it proves my point very well. You very much want to make this about inferiority. That's been the whole feminist thread ever since it started. You take what is a difference and turn it into an inferiority. If a man says he wants it to be different all you can hear is that he wants you to be inferior. Then you either blame men for wanting what they want or feel like you have to prove you're not inferior.

 

So, why did you do it? Why did you take what I said about wanting men and women to be different in the way I think they naturally are, and turn it into me wanting women to be inferior?

 

Read the parts I underlined.

 

You said, over and over again, that women should stop trying to be, IN YOUR WORDS, "equal" to men because it's unattractive.

[Woggle]

Aren't you a misogynist with a wonderful, loving wife who has no idea the kind of hateful things you say about women online?

 

Yes but I am just venting on here.

[Woggle]

He misworded it when he said equal. Modern day feminists want to become the new oppressors instead of making things equal.

[Enchanted Girl]

If you don't think a woman should focus on her career, should her husband be the sole breadwinner?

 

And if her husband is the sole breadwinner, what happens to her and her children should be die or run off? One of my grandmothers and one of my greatgrandmothers ended up going from traditional middle class housewives to low wage workers because their husbands died at a young age. At the time there wasn't much opportunity for women.

 

Both of my parents always felt very strongly that a woman should be able to support herself fully having these situations in their families. So I never understand this idea that being a career woman somehow means you hate men or are totally unwilling to have a traditional home. Or that there isn't a benefit to having a two career family where people equally split housework.

 

Bringing it back to the OP, he isn't offering these women anything long term. He wants dedication and sacrifice without offering anything up. That is entitlement, not women who prefer to have careers and split housework equally with their husbands.

 

 

This whole idea of serving with pride comes up over and over again, but no one mentions the man serving with pride. Happy marriages require both people serve each other without complaint, whether they are traditional or modern. But there are a lot of selfish people out there and only some of them have vaginas.

 

I agree 100% with this post and while society may want to blame women for children not being taken care of because women are working and being responsible in a lot of ways now, it confuses me, because a lot of men neglect their families or run off and they're not getting as much of the blame.

 

Honestly, even if a woman is a housewife, both parents should be taking care of the kids and each other. If they are not, then they are a failure. I had a housewife mother and an absent father a lot of growing up and trust me, I felt it. My Mom being a submissive housewife didn't fix things.

[Green]

I agree 100% with this post and while society may want to blame women for children not being taken care of because women are working and being responsible in a lot of ways now, it confuses me, because a lot of men neglect their families or run off and they're not getting as much of the blame.

 

Honestly, even if a woman is a housewife, both parents should be taking care of the kids and each other. If they are not, then they are a failure. I had a housewife mother and an absent father a lot of growing up and trust me, I felt it. My Mom being a submissive housewife didn't fix things.

 

It doesn't suprise me that you had an absent father growing up because you really seem to have issues with men.

 

Bottom line USA is the greatest country in the world. We do have the best looking women... But on avg the women here are fat and unattractive when compared to the abundance of thin attractive friendly women around the world.

 

I'm sorry that it is so hard for you to believe or understand when as a woman you really can only guess what a man finds attractive in a woman.

 

Its like if I came into a thread arguing about what dress a woman would like best when I know nothing about dress's and have never worn one.

[that girl]

You totally think you have the upper hand, don't you Average Joe?

 

I do not respect someone who says things like:

 

I am starting to think that the women here in the U.S. are bitches. Mouthy bitches that chunk up and butch their hair off after you get with them. Who boss you around and tell us how equal they are. Trying to remind you of all the advantages and benefits of having a vagina with none of the responsibility. Being told you have two hands you can do it yourself, or you have one hand you can do it yourself.

 

It is hateful and frankly crazy. It suggests serious psychological issue on your part. Plus, I think you are a troll. A crazy, hateful internet troll. I'm sure you have some choice things to say about Blacks, Jews, Gays, and Latino immigrants (excepting any category you belong to).

 

 

Actually I did, I made it clear they were treated in kind. Maybe not to you specificially but it was there.

 

Correct, I dont want a relationship, so where did I say I wanted dedication?

 

Again, quote me where I said those words you so eloquently pointed out.

 

 

From your original post:

 

She took care of me like no other women ever has.

 

She would do anything to make me happy, and that made her happy.

 

These do not sound like equal relationships where you both take care of each other in different ways.

 

The focus on traditional gender roles when you do not want marriages makes no sense.

 

If you want to be a pussy and be told what to do then come home to an empty house every other night, then live it up.

What do you care if she isn't home when you get home if you aren't thinking about marriage?

 

Being told you have two hands you can do it yourself, or you have one hand you can do it yourself.

If you're just dating, how would this come up? Are you asking your girlfriends to cook you dinner? (There is a difference between a girlfriend who happily cooks for you on her own initiative and one you boss around).

 

respect is earned not given and made sure they were treated in kind.

So you wait until they've proven themselves to be different than all those American bitches before giving them respect?

[amerikajin]

I'm getting married to an Asian woman. I've always had a little bit of yellow fever, but truth be told, there are a lot of attractive American women out there and not all of them are biotches.

 

I think what turns me (and apparently other dudes) off about a lot of American women is the game that a lot of American women like to play with guys. Like when I walk past foreign women, the attractive ones often seem friendly and approachable, like they're not out to prove anything to anyone. The American women I walk past on the street or meet in a bar/grill type place usually give the impression of being self-absorbed. Certainly not all, but a lot. In all fairness, I think this behavior fades with age and more self-confidence. I find older American women very approachable. Problem is, a lot of them have baggage (i.e. being divorced).

 

Having said all that, you can find a lot of crap with Asian women, too, and I'm sure it's true of women in a lot of places. I've met really friendly, humble, and easy-going Asian girls, and I've met Asian women who would rip a guy's heart out and stomp on it with a smile. You find cool women everywhere, and you find heartless women everywhere, too.

 

I definitely encourage dating outside of one's culture. Life is more interesting that way. But intercultural dating shouldn't be done with any illusions. Don't expect to find magic in another woman just because of her cultural background. There is also the issue of communication, too. Things that seem obvious to you won't be obvious to her, and vice versa. Be realistic. And don't cut out all American women, either. In the end, all that matters is that you find a woman who will be there for you in hard times.

[Enchanted Girl]

It doesn't suprise me that you had an absent father growing up because you really seem to have issues with men.

 

Bottom line USA is the greatest country in the world. We do have the best looking women... But on avg the women here are fat and unattractive when compared to the abundance of thin attractive friendly women around the world.

 

I'm sorry that it is so hard for you to believe or understand when as a woman you really can only guess what a man finds attractive in a woman.

 

Its like if I came into a thread arguing about what dress a woman would like best when I know nothing about dress's and have never worn one.

 

There's a difference.

 

He made this thread about women being unattractive because they are American. I can't help it where I was born. That's something I do not control and I also disagree that it's something that controls my personality.

 

I also hate stereotypes.

 

And don't think I have issues with men just for defending myself. The same as how all the American men defended themselves when someone came into this thread insulting all of them.

 

And like I've said before, people are welcome to prefer physically and in other ways foreign women, but when you make a thread about how all American women are all unattractive and that's why you only like foreign women, then you're actually making a thread about how much you hate American women and shouldn't be surprised when people argue with you.

[Enchanted Girl]

I definitely encourage dating outside of one's culture. Life is more interesting that way. But intercultural dating shouldn't be done with any illusions. Don't expect to find magic in another woman just because of her cultural background. There is also the issue of communication, too. Things that seem obvious to you won't be obvious to her, and vice versa. Be realistic. And don't cut out all American women, either. In the end, all that matters is that you find a woman who will be there for you in hard times.

 

I definitely agree with this part of your post. =)

[silverfish]

I can see why some women on here take offense to the OP but I understand where it comes from. He probably has had one too many bad experiences with women. I just think any couple in order to have a successful relationship should realize they are on the same team and in it together. They should both work on doing right by each other. I don't know why some women find this idea so offensive.

 

Why do you care what 'some women' think? Your wife doesn't think like that, and that's all that matters. Some guy posts whatever, some gal posts somesuch nonsense....do I get up tomorrow and behave differently because of it? No.

 

I work 60-70 hours a week side by side with men and have done for a long time, and I can see the difference between bravado, banter, willy waving, and the reality of their personality in most cases. Maybe women weren't so vocal in the past and kept it better hidden but it has always gone on...these days it's more acceptable for women to engage in this type of banter in the same way.

 

Of the men I work with, I'd say 60-70% of them that come out with stuff like this (what the OP posted) are doing it out of boredom and seeking validation from other men. They also do it to compete and play up to the adoring female audience. Women do it for the same reason.

[amerikajin]

Wanted to add that American men shouldn't delude themselves. Although we complain a lot about American women, I think American women could just as easily complain about American men. The culture affects both genders. I would encourage American women to date foreign dudes in return. If American women want to date sensitive guys they can date Western Europeans. If they want rugged men, they can date Eastern Europeans or Russians, or Latinos. Truth is, they can and should date all different kinds of people: Asians, Euros, Latinos, Africans -- anyone. Mix it up, people.

[Enchanted Girl]

P.S. To add onto my post, I don't have issues with men because I'm not attacking them. I've been defending women, that's all, and if I do attack men, it's them as individuals. I'd never be foolish enough to say something like,"All American men are horrible people!" Because they are not and I don't believe they are.

[AverageJoe]

That girl. Semantics in regards to your response, we have been through this. Everyone has read this thread.

You found yourself backed into a corner and cant answer what I asked. Its not true, you fabricated what I wrote and substituted your own reality.

 

 

Can you or can you not quote me with what you said?

 

You cant, because I never said it.

[Enchanted Girl]

That girl. Semantics in regards to your response, we have been through this. Everyone has read this thread.

You found yourself backed into a corner and cant answer what I asked. Its not true, you fabricated what I wrote and substituted your own reality.

 

 

Can you or can you not quote me with what you said?

 

You cant, because I never said it.

 

She did quote you, lol. All of us can see it except you.