U.S Women vs Foreign Women

[zengirl]

As long as there is reciprocity, it doesn't matter how exactly it plays out. The problem is when there is no reciprocity. E.g. a wife who does not work, but still expects the husband to pay for a nanny and a maid.

 

Eh, I work in a very rich neighborhood in Korea. Most of the Moms do not work. Their kids go to many different schools as early as age 3 or 4. So, they don't spend much time with the kids either. They almost all have maids, cooks, and nannies (not live-in, but help-outs). The men all work. Some work the ungodly fancy jobs that are 6 days a week, 10-14 hour days. Some work cushier, high-paying jobs. Some own businesses. (A few of the women work too or work in the business if it is owned by the family, but it's very rare they work more than part time and even that is pretty seldom.) These women seem to spend most of their time getting together with each other and in various places for beauty treatments or shopping.

 

Since it is an entire neighborhood (this is not true of all of Korea, but these happen to be some of the richest folks), I think it's silly to assume the men are unhappy with this. They seem to be perfectly happy with paying for all these things. To a degree, I presume they like it that their wives spend so much time looking fantastic. Reciprocity is something that might be hard to judge from the outside. Now, I think these women have a dull life, and I couldn't bear it, personally. And certainly some of them do things, like teach part time, or work for family businesses, and some are even working full-time just like the fathers. So, those ladies likely feel the same. But it's the exception.

 

If someone wants to have a nanny, a cook, or a housekeeper, I don't really care. I presume that was a decision made by both parties. From what I gather, some men probably like the image.

 

ETA: I'm not saying any adult should expect to be taken care of, have a housekeeper, cook, nanny, and maid, provided, mind you. Frankly, I don't think any adult should expect someone to keep their house OR someone to support them. If they want that in a marriage and it works out, that's fine, but if you're an adult, you ought to have the capacity for self-sufficiency.

Edited August 14, 2010 by zengirl

[LSNoob]

I agree with Jamesum, Woggle and AverageJoe. There is a lot of truth in what they are saying.

 

Again, NOT ALL American women are like that. There are a lot of good American women too. It's just the bad women give the good women a bad name.

 

(This is from someone who grew up in a eastern-cultured family IN a western cultured country, so I do have some clue and I'm talking from experience).

 

It feels like women in US not respected for their real image. They need to change and be a "man" to earn their respect. They always talk about equality equality equality. But they just don't understand it's about gender roles. Each gender is specialized in a task to provide a healthy and safe lifestyle.

 

Woman's patience, love, caring attitude, the habit of making some decisions with their heart ,rather than their head,and warmth makes them the best at doing the house work, raising up and taking care of the kids. While the man's ruggedness, physical strength and thinking with his head ,rather than his heart, makes him best at outdoor activities. Here in New Zealand, the tv been showing an ad about an issue that is becoming more common in the society. And that is stay at home fathers. In the add it shows a man with tattoos wearing a sleeveless shirt ( you guys call it "wife-beater" I think ) and watching a rugby game. Then his 8months old baby starts crying, then a message pops up says " Don't ever ever, shake the baby ". Yes, so apparently what's been happening, when women go to work and the baby starts crying during the game, now of course the father not gonna take his nipples out then puts it inside the baby's mouth, but instead he will shake the baby to sleep (death). Then the wifey comes home for a big surprise...

 

Now of course there are jobs outside that suits women best, such as teaching, nursery etc. And when I attended school in eastern-cultured country, all I saw was female teachers, they used to have like 1 or 2 male teachers that's it. And the only reason for them is to smack the teenage boys ( boys from ages 16-18 tend to be a bit more difficult to keep disciplined ). And same goes with hospitals, all nurses are females and on top of that there are occupations such as birth delivery doctors where all of them are females.

 

That kinda stuff is different in western countries. In western countries is like 24/7 the man competing vs woman. All the f***ing time, they never tend to work together. They always trying to make it "women vs men" match up or something. It's kinda pathetic when you see the woman always trying to be like a man. Like... what the hell...

 

It will be nice if I can support my future wife on my own and provide her with everything she needs, I wanna look after her. But why do women make it such a big deal and they start assuming all men want to make them like their own maid/servant. As long as the husband is not abusive and taking care of his wife, there's nothing wrong with being a good housewife.

 

American women are fooled into believing they are of a higher being than every other person when in fact, they are one of millions. Movies, television and books all illustrate a fantasy life style of which only someone deemed special would experience. Unfortunately, many women, if not most possess a wavering mind frame and cannot accept such a truth. This is all for now.

 

This is soooo true. Beatiful post. Women now days watching tv a lot and trying to be like the women from "sex and the city" , "the desperate housewives" and "keeping up with the kardashians" etc. Stuff like that takes the ladies on a trip to dreamland.

 

Eh, I work in a very rich neighborhood in Korea. Most of the Moms do not work.

 

You said it your self, VERY RICH. Since when the rich wives work or look after their kids? Rich people all around the world live the same lifestyle.

Edited August 14, 2010 by LSNoob

[Enchanted Girl]

I agree with Jamesum, Woggle and AverageJoe. There is a lot of truth in what they are saying.

 

Again, NOT ALL American women are like that. There are a lot of good American women too. It's just the bad women give the good women a bad name.

 

(This is from someone who grew up in a eastern-cultured family IN a western cultured country, so I do have some clue and I'm talking from experience).

 

It feels like women in US not respected for their real image. They need to change and be a "man" to earn their respect. They always talk about equality equality equality. But they just don't understand it's about gender roles. Each gender is specialized in a task to provide a healthy and safe lifestyle.

 

Woman's patience, love, caring attitude, the habit of making some decisions with their heart ,rather than their head,and warmth makes them the best at doing the house work, raising up and taking care of the kids. While the man's ruggedness, physical strength and thinking with his head ,rather than his heart, makes him best at outdoor activities. Here in New Zealand, the tv been showing an ad about an issue that is becoming more common in the society. And that is stay at home fathers. In the add it shows a man with tattoos wearing a sleeveless shirt ( you guys call it "wife-beater" I think ) and watching a rugby game. Then his 8months old baby starts crying, then a message pops up says " Don't ever ever, shake the baby ". Yes, so apparently what's been happening, when women go to work and the baby starts crying during the game, now of course the father not gonna take his nipples out then puts it inside the baby's mouth, but instead he will shake the baby to sleep (death). Then the wifey comes home for a big surprise...

 

Now of course there are jobs outside that suits women best, such as teaching, nursery etc. And when I attended school in eastern-cultured country, all I saw was female teachers, they used to have like 1 or 2 male teachers that's it. And the only reason for them is to smack the teenage boys ( boys from ages 16-18 tend to be a bit more difficult to keep disciplined ). And same goes with hospitals, all nurses are females and on top of that there are occupations such as birth delivery doctors where all of them are females.

 

That kinda stuff is different in western countries. In western countries is like 24/7 the man competing vs woman. All the f***ing time, they never tend to work together. They always trying to make it "women vs men" match up or something. It's kinda pathetic when you see the woman always trying to be like a man. Like... what the hell...

 

It will be nice if I can support my future wife on my own and provide her with everything she needs, I wanna look after her. But why do women make it such a big deal and they start assuming all men want to make them like their own maid/servant. As long as the husband is not abusive and taking care of his wife, there's nothing wrong with being a good housewife.

 

 

 

This is soooo true. Beatiful post. Women now days watching tv a lot and trying to be like the women from "sex and the city" , "the desperate housewives" and "keeping up with the kardashians" etc. Stuff like that takes the ladies on a trip to dreamland.

 

 

 

You said it your self, VERY RICH. Since when the rich wives work or look after their kids? Rich people all around the world live the same lifestyle.

 

I don't know why people keep talking about the average woman as if she's a rich woman who can afford nannies and maids and gardeners and things, so she can sit on her butt all day. This is actually extremely rare.

 

And no one says there's anything wrong with being a housewife, but . . .

 

The idea that men are incapable of taking care of babies and women are incapable of working without the world exploding is ridiculous. If you're not flexible enough to take on these opposite roles at least occasionally while in a marriage with someone, then you're probably in for some problems. Sometimes families are low on money and the woman needs to work, too. Sometimes wives need a break and the man needs to take care of the baby, too. The world doesn't explode when it happens. Men are capable of being nurturing and having emotions. And women are capable of being hard-working and to limit both of them from living up to their full potential by telling them that they CAN'T do something without destroying all of society creates very shallow and one-dimensional people. And people who found themselves helpless and stupid in a lot of situations.

[jamesum]

I agree with Jamesum, Woggle and AverageJoe. There is a lot of truth in what they are saying.

 

It feels like women in US not respected for their real image. They need to change and be a "man" to earn their respect. They always talk about equality equality equality. But they just don't understand it's about gender roles. Each gender is specialized in a task to provide a healthy and safe lifestyle.

 

Woman's patience, love, caring attitude, the habit of making some decisions with their heart ,rather than their head,and warmth makes them the best at doing the house work, raising up and taking care of the kids. While the man's ruggedness, physical strength and thinking with his head ,rather than his heart, makes him best at outdoor activities. Here in New Zealand, the tv been showing an ad about an issue that is becoming more common in the society. And that is stay at home fathers. In the add it shows a man with tattoos wearing a sleeveless shirt ( you guys call it "wife-beater" I think ) and watching a rugby game. Then his 8months old baby starts crying, then a message pops up says " Don't ever ever, shake the baby ". Yes, so apparently what's been happening, when women go to work and the baby starts crying during the game, now of course the father not gonna take his nipples out then puts it inside the baby's mouth, but instead he will shake the baby to sleep (death). Then the wifey comes home for a big surprise...

 

Now of course there are jobs outside that suits women best, such as teaching, nursery etc. And when I attended school in eastern-cultured country, all I saw was female teachers, they used to have like 1 or 2 male teachers that's it. And the only reason for them is to smack the teenage boys ( boys from ages 16-18 tend to be a bit more difficult to keep disciplined ). And same goes with hospitals, all nurses are females and on top of that there are occupations such as birth delivery doctors where all of them are females.

 

That kinda stuff is different in western countries. In western countries is like 24/7 the man competing vs woman. All the f***ing time, they never tend to work together. They always trying to make it "women vs men" match up or something. It's kinda pathetic when you see the woman always trying to be like a man. Like... what the hell...

 

It will be nice if I can support my future wife on my own and provide her with everything she needs, I wanna look after her. But why do women make it such a big deal and they start assuming all men want to make them like their own maid/servant. As long as the husband is not abusive and taking care of his wife, there's nothing wrong with being a good housewife.

We are not on the same page.

 

Im not a believer of traditional gender roles like you.

 

My problem is with hypocrisy and selfishness, not that women are 'becoming men' which sounds very dumb to me.

[zengirl]

It feels like women in US not respected for their real image. They need to change and be a "man" to earn their respect. They always talk about equality equality equality. But they just don't understand it's about gender roles. Each gender is specialized in a task to provide a healthy and safe lifestyle.

 

Uh. . . no. I worked in a field predominantly with men and made a lot of money doing so. Even with the market crash (which hurt), I still have about $60,000 in investments to show for 2 years of that work, plus a fully paid for dual masters. And now I'm in a second career, which is perhaps more "traditionally" female (teaching), but I'll likely go into curriculum development or administration someday in the next 10 years and again be making close to 6 figures. Heck, I've helped build a freaking house and lay wiring with my father (he's a commercial contractor) and step-mother when I was a kid, despite being pretty damn tiny. There may be a few things that I'm physically limited from doing, but so are plenty of men. And most of those jobs are automated now. I've also known men who can care for children, cook excellent meals, clean a house, etc -- actually almost everybody can do those things, if they want to.

 

This is the attitude that bothers me. I don't care what anybody wants to do or marry, but it's pretty lame to say we were "made" for specific things.

 

Woman's patience, love, caring attitude, the habit of making some decisions with their heart ,rather than their head,and warmth makes them the best at doing the house work, raising up and taking care of the kids. While the man's ruggedness, physical strength and thinking with his head ,rather than his heart, makes him best at outdoor activities. Here in New Zealand, the tv been showing an ad about an issue that is becoming more common in the society. And that is stay at home fathers. In the add it shows a man with tattoos wearing a sleeveless shirt ( you guys call it "wife-beater" I think ) and watching a rugby game. Then his 8months old baby starts crying, then a message pops up says " Don't ever ever, shake the baby ". Yes, so apparently what's been happening, when women go to work and the baby starts crying during the game, now of course the father not gonna take his nipples out then puts it inside the baby's mouth, but instead he will shake the baby to sleep (death). Then the wifey comes home for a big surprise...

This is insulting to both men and women.

 

That kinda stuff is different in western countries. In western countries is like 24/7 the man competing vs woman. All the f***ing time, they never tend to work together. They always trying to make it "women vs men" match up or something. It's kinda pathetic when you see the woman always trying to be like a man. Like... what the hell...

You're the one making it women vs. men by saying that there are specific jobs for each one. This is the attitude that creates arguments; well, this or the male argument that women are "stealing" their jobs. Luckily, I rarely hear much of them. This is like a trip back in time. I've worked with men in the workplace plenty, and gender has never been an issue that's come up, really.

 

It will be nice if I can support my future wife on my own and provide her with everything she needs, I wanna look after her. But why do women make it such a big deal and they start assuming all men want to make them like their own maid/servant. As long as the husband is not abusive and taking care of his wife, there's nothing wrong with being a good housewife.

If a gal WANTS to be a housewife, there is nothing wrong with it. I certainly don't assume all men want a good housewife; most of the men I've dated want nothing of the sort; they were raised in households with working mothers or appreciate self-sufficient working women. But that makes sense for the fellows who date me, because anyone looking for a housewife wouldn't be a good fit for me. I assume there are women who want all sorts of things, and so long as they develop the basic skills to survive in the world first, I've no judgment for them for choosing any which life they like. Feminism is all about choice. Women can be housewives or they can have fantastic careers, or they can switch back and forth if they like and have the skills/luck/background/education to back it up.

 

I could never be a housewife. I've no interest or talent for such a domestic life. I need to use my brain. Constantly. I have a new teaching job, and I've already taken side-work from my old ad agency to work on creating proposals for them. I'm going back for my PhD. I'm writing a textbook. I would be absolutely trapped and miserable as a housewife so am blessed and glad to have grown up in a time where it was natural I go to college, work for a living, and follow my own particular form of bliss. That doesn't mean I think all women should do any one thing----they need to follow their own bliss.

 

You said it your self, VERY RICH. Since when the rich wives work or look after their kids? Rich people all around the world live the same lifestyle.

Well, if you have a nanny, you're probably rich. That was my point!

 

Edited August 14, 2010 by zengirl

[Scottdmw]

I would say the OP expressed his idea in a rather inflammatory way. However, I agree with his basic idea at least to some extent. And, I kind of feel that the angry way many women responded may indicate that they are worried that there is some grain of truth here that they would rather not see.

 

This thread is about generalities and I want to re-emphasize right here that I'm not trying to say it applies to everyone.

 

I have no problem with a woman who genuinely wants to fulfill any role she might like, and is willing to pay the price. But, I do think that American women by and large have an unnecessarily competitive attitude. They are very fixated on proving they can do anything a man can do, and that men and women should be the same. This is something that has been playing out for decades now in our culture, the story of the brave woman who is held back by the patriarchy who has to set out and prove she can do anything a man can do.

 

I always want to say “Okay! I believe you! You can do anything a man can do. Now, can we get back to doing what really makes sense?”

 

Men and women are different. They are different in their abilities, and perhaps more importantly they are different in what they find attractive and important. These differences are only partly the result of upbringing, there is a core part to them that just cannot be changed.

 

A very key example of this is the attractiveness of career achievements. I think that most women find it attractive when a man is ambitious and achieves a lot in his career. I think the problem comes when these women assume that men will feel the same way about them. I personally don't feel that way. I don't really care what a woman's career achievements are beyond a certain minimum point. I think a lot of men are like that. They may say they are not. They may say that they find it attractive that a woman is successful, driven, and everything. But, they may just be saying that because it is socially expected in our society, and women come down hard on men who say the opposite, much as they have in this thread.

 

This can create a problem when a woman spends many years of her life working on a great career. She arrives in her 30s after working 80 hour weeks and wonders why men are not falling over themselves to date her. She feels cheated because she worked so hard and now men are not interested, or least not as interested as she thinks they should be. It's because men never cared about those things in the first place.

 

In past societies and in other countries the culture encouraged men and women to do what the opposite gender found attractive. I think that is where traditional gender roles came from, not from some desire to oppress and take advantage of the other. The reality is men and women are hardwired to find certain things attractive in each other, and for men that does not include career achievement or women trying to be their “equals”. You can get upset about it but you can't change what men are attracted to. Our culture got tangled up in this idea that it was “unfair” that women didn’t do the same things that men did. Women felt a huge sense of injustice and set out to prove they could. They are still not done proving that. Meanwhile the men are still looking on and wondering why the women want to do this in the first place.

 

Women, if it is truly important to you to do something in life then by all means do it. But, I would ask you to use a little bit of self reflection on your motives. Are you truly doing what you're doing because it fits you? Or, at a young age did you hear the idea that women must prove they are as good as men, and take that idea to heart? Did you set out to do something in the name of proving or creating equality, rather than because it really fit you as a person? Are you in the career and life path you are in because it's truly what you are called to do?

 

Women, if you could be more attractive to men by acting in a more traditional way, would you do it? Or, would you feel like you would rather be alone than have to conform to what men want, or that men should have to change what they want rather than you fulfilling that? Do you feel that way because it's really you, or because the culture and media send such a strong message that that's the way it should be?

 

Seriously, think about this. If you could be a “traditional” woman who did the things that such a woman does, and you could be very happy doing that with a great man that you really loved, would you choose such a life? Or would you prefer to be a single “sex in the city” woman who has an exciting career, or perhaps has a man but a man that is not as good as the man you could have gotten the other way?

 

I'm sure you will want to say that you shouldn't have to make such a choice, or that in fact you don't have to make such a choice and I'm just full of BS. Well, maybe so, maybe not. I think it would not hurt women to think about these things.

 

Scott

[zengirl]

If you could be a “traditional” woman who did the things that such a woman does, and you could be very happy doing that with a great man that you really loved, would you choose such a life? Or would you prefer to be a single “sex in the city” woman who has an exciting career, or perhaps has a man but a man that is not as good as the man you could have gotten the other way?

 

The Sex and the City women don't have dating issues because they have careers. They have dating issues because they have the emotional maturity of 16 year olds. While I agree nobody should do any such thing just to "prove" something to men, I disagree this drives most career women. At least most of the ones I know. The assumption that it is some sort of hollow desire is actually really insulting.

 

It is true that women can't "work now, relationship later" as easily as a man can, with biology being what it is, but I don't actually think it's healthy for anyone to ignore personal relationships for a decade of their lives. Not finding the one is one thing. . . but waiting to look? The men who do that turn me off entirely. Though they will have an easier time, in general, than the women who do. This does not bother me. Biology is what it is, and people are welcome to pick as they choose. But a normal, healthy career -- even a time-consuming, wildly successful one, I found (I've never worked 80 hours a week, but I have worked 50-60 plenty) -- doesn't stop anyone from entering into excellent relationships, unless they're something like a Big Law first year or a medical intern, maybe. Even then, some make it work.

 

Also, I find the suggestion that the men I find by being successful are "not as good" to be ludicrous. The best sort of man to me includes one who if fully on board protecting the rights of all people in a community to do what they like, so long as they work towards it honestly, and who recognizes all kinds of talents in a mate. I've never had trouble meeting men with these thoughts who were also intelligent, funny, attractive, successful, fun, and interesting. I have met men who were ambivalent to my success and drive and men who were impressed by it; I suppose anyone turned off by it would not date me, but I've no complaints about that. I don't wish to attack the OP for his desires on who to date. (His way of stating it is rather illogical, as he obviously doesn't understand the many different versions of non-American women in the world. And some of the other things about "gender roles" that have been brought up are annoying and kind of insulting.) But, seriously, date who you want. Say you're attracted to housewives and finding out a woman has a PhD would demote her in your attraction. I'm not offended, in the least. It's no skin off my teeth.

 

But, then, I'm not interested in crafting my life around what the random hypothetical group known as "men" find attractive. I don't live my life to impress other people. I live it to be happy. Ironically, in my life out in the world, I find this tends to impress most people quite by accident.

Edited August 14, 2010 by zengirl

[SarahRose]

OP isn't looking for marriage but is seeking traditional woman? Most truly traditional foreign women date for marriage.

 

I don't think you will find many people who aren't westernized to some extent.

[AverageJoe]

OP isn't looking for marriage but is seeking traditional woman? Most truly traditional foreign women date for marriage.

 

 

Where did I say I was looking for a traditional women? I will save you the trouble, I didnt say it. Just because I pointed out a different contrast based on the experiences I had doesnt mean that is what I am looking for. Your assumption is misguided.

[bac]

OP isn't looking for marriage but is seeking traditional woman? Most truly traditional foreign women date for marriage.

 

I don't think you will find many people who aren't westernized to some extent.

 

I agree with you. On the one hand, american men looking for casual sex, FWBs, ONSs, no exclusivity and stuff like that. So, they view women as sex objects but not as persons. On the other hand, they want to get personal treatment with respect and kindness.

Finally, the foreign women treat their men better because they can not help viewing males as individuals with a potential for emotional attachment but not as sexual objects.

There are no concept of women viewing sex as real benefits in other countries.

But, american men truly believe that women's brains are wired the same way as men's brains wired and so females see sex as a real benefit.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

And if she and her husband are cool with that, then what do you care?

 

Actually she was quite cool with it he was depressed and a bit annoyed that he had to come home after working all day cook/clean/feed the kids yes they had kids and she did little as she could get away with past popping them out in those days.

 

I remember going over their place on hot summer days the house reeked the poor kids were dirty and hungry mean time she was sitting on the front steps BSing with the equality lazy nabor it was sad for everyone in the family to see.

[zengirl]

Actually she was quite cool with it he was depressed and a bit annoyed that he had to come home after working all day cook/clean/feed the kids yes they had kids and she did little as she could get away with past popping them out in those days.

 

I remember going over their place on hot summer days the house reeked the poor kids were dirty and hungry mean time she was sitting on the front steps BSing with the equality lazy nabor it was sad for everyone in the family to see.

 

Well, if the kids are dirty and hungry, then I'm concerned. But that's not an issue of gender roles---it's an issue of child welfare. Very sad.

[Green]

Now, in a non-Westernized country, it is easier to find a traditional woman who is naive enough to believe men who sleep with her will marry her after (She might also have some relatives to enforce this ) AND who misses a lot of the signals an English-speaking gal would pick up because of a language difference. The UK gal wouldn't fit into this though.

 

Zengirl are you Korean born and lived in Korea your entire life? If so you have no room to speak about these subjects. Have you even visited the united states?

 

Or are you from another country and you just went to Korea for work?

 

If most men are like me they have no issue with a truly equal marriage. I have a woman who fits my criteria already but all I ask is that she not be a misandrist and be willing to truly be a partner in a marriage instead of looking at me as the enemy and that she truly be commited. Simply finding that is very hard for most men these days.

 

Most women look at men as an enemy. As a man you have to realize that a woman is superior to you in some ways and inferior in others. Women like men who take control and make them feel protected. They also enjoy being told what to do on a basic level.

[LSNoob]

 

I don't think you will find many people who aren't westernized to some extent.

 

Yea that's true.

[BS76]

Foreign women. They don't have the misandrist qualities that many American women have.

 

This. Westernized women have their heads filled with misandry, unrealistic expectations, are groomed from childhood to be highly materialistic, and have horrible entitlement attitudes these days. When was the last time a woman has asked herself what she has to offer to a guy who's offering to buy her a drink? Overseas they buy the drinks and bend over backwards to show men they're interested. In short women value men overseas, something that's been horribly lost in the West in general. Keep in mind it's in large part the fault of feminism and the media, not women per se. However, that doesn't stop me from prefering foreign women immensely more. They are generally more feminine, cordial, and have more realistic expectations.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Well, if the kids are dirty and hungry, then I'm concerned. But that's not an issue of gender roles---it's an issue of child welfare. Very sad.

The kids are in there teens now but thats how they grew up for the most part their mom never taut them how to cook/clean/do anything domesticity so lets see how they turn out bet it will be a vicious circle hopefully they learned from watching dad when he could.

 

Theres nothing wrong with women being strong and having a mind of their own but to some extent gender roles are a part of life. I mean women do things that men don't do and vice versa.

 

Example as a women would you honestly want to work on your own broken down car if there was a man near by who could help you with it prob not right? I don't see why some women are almost insulted at the idea of being the main homemaker.

 

( im not directing that at you zen but some women in general)

[zengirl]

The kids are in there teens now but thats how they grew up for the most part their mom never taut them how to cook/clean/do anything domesticity so lets see how they turn out bet it will be a vicious circle hopefully they learned from watching dad when he could.

 

Theres nothing wrong with women being strong and having a mind of their own but to some extent gender roles are a part of life. I mean women do things that men don't do and vice versa.

 

Example as a women would you honestly want to work on your own broken down car if there was a man near by who could help you with it prob not right? I don't see why some women are almost insulted at the idea of being the main homemaker

 

( im not directing that at you zen but some women in general)

 

I disagree that old school gender roles are a part of life. There's nothing wrong with being the main homemaker, if you're a woman or a man, but it shouldn't be an expectation made on every woman. (If one person is at home and the other isn't, and there are things that need to be done, that's different. Regardless of who's at home.) But such "roles" really aren't a part of my life and never have been.

 

My step-father irons, cooks sometimes, cleans sometimes, helps with laundry, etc. He and my Mom both work. They look at everything as something that is both their responsibilities. A man can clean a dish. This is not a hard skill to learn. I'm not going to be the "main homemaker" in my home, but it's not some sort of angry tirade. I just don't see it happening. I'm not talking about keeping some checklist to make sure it is 50/50 equal, as I'm not that petty, and I hate pettiness like that. But I'll have no expectation on me to maintain the home or pick up after someone. I am perfectly capable of maintaining one, and do as a single gal, but a man isn't a small child and is perfectly capable of maintaining one too. Actually, I had to do cleaning since I was young and was taught to cook, iron, fix things, etc, as I said as I grew older.

 

Personally, I never had much luck with cars, but I don't need a fellow who can either. (That's what mechanics are for!) I know enough about a car to not get ripped off. . . actually a fair amount in a cerebral way; just clumsy. And most of the fellows I know don't fix their own cars either. But I'm great at putting together furniture, and I can even re-wire some electrical stuff in a house. And most of my exes have been wonderful cooks, though I like to cook too.

[zengirl]

Zengirl are you Korean born and lived in Korea your entire life? If so you have no room to speak about these subjects. Have you even visited the united states?

 

Or are you from another country and you just went to Korea for work?

 

I'm American, born and raised. I'm Japanese-American, with relatives I've lived in Japan (never more than a few months at a time though). I live in Korea. I will be returning to America soon. I've also lived in Argentina. And, briefly, in Russia. More time in America than all the other places put together, though.

Edited August 14, 2010 by zengirl

[Green]

I'm American, born and raised. I'm Japanese-American with relatives I've stayed with for long periods in Japan. I live in Korea. I will be returning to America soon. I've also lived in Argentina. And, briefly, in Russia.

 

Why are you in Korea.. teaching english or something?

 

Seriously though the women who come to america often get a bad attitude to them.

[Woggle]

This. Westernized women have their heads filled with misandry, unrealistic expectations, are groomed from childhood to be highly materialistic, and have horrible entitlement attitudes these days. When was the last time a woman has asked herself what she has to offer to a guy who's offering to buy her a drink? Overseas they buy the drinks and bend over backwards to show men they're interested. In short women value men overseas, something that's been horribly lost in the West in general. Keep in mind it's in large part the fault of feminism and the media, not women per se. However, that doesn't stop me from prefering foreign women immensely more. They are generally more feminine, cordial, and have more realistic expectations.

 

It's all about me me me with them and the hell with a man's feelings and desires.

[zengirl]

Why are you in Korea.. teaching english or something?

 

Seriously though the women who come to america often get a bad attitude to them.

 

Kind of. I teach at an international school, in English. But I teach science and social studies. I am literally an English teacher though (this is my new job in the states, though it's a dual history/English job).

[You Go Girl]

I didn't read this whole thread as the opening post was so disgusting I knew reading the thread wouldn't be worth my time and effort.

However, I will say that men who think that American women are all about entitlement and not adoring maleness enough are probably weak and insecure individuals that I wouldn't want to date anymore than they would like to date me: A confident, equal partner in my relationships who doesn't believe in being told what to do on any level and would never tolerate it.

 

Foreign women will marry American men to get into this country and the better life it offers. I know of one who married a Chinese woman who is now pushing him around, has him by the balls, and he is unhappy and regretting it...but for those of you who believe in this sexist view that foreign women treat men better...carry on...can't say that you weren't warned. Long live your fantasy.

[Knittress]

I agree with you. On the one hand, american men looking for casual sex, FWBs, ONSs, no exclusivity and stuff like that. [...]

There are no concept of women viewing sex as real benefits in other countries. But, american men truly believe that women's brains are wired the same way as men's brains wired and so females see sex as a real benefit.

 

Hmm. Yeah.

 

That's been my observation here in the states, a lot of men expect me to act like a man. Many of them expect me to be sexually driven and appear somewhat shocked/annoyed that I operate differently. OP, There are a lot of nice quiet (and interesting!) girls that are overlooked for half-naked loudmouths in this country, so I'm not really sure what you're going on about. Maybe you should readjust your selection-parameters to include women that might have initially seen as shy, nerdy, uptight, and/or boring?

Edited August 14, 2010 by Knittress

[that girl]

There a re many problems if the only choice of a sweet girl are limited to a religious fundamentalist.So, it is nice to have a culture that expects, or assumes, the best of intentions in you, rather than once that assumes that you are a dangerous monster if you pee standing up.

Actually, I didn't say they were religious fundamentalists. But I have found that the women who most strongly want to stay home and have little interest in career are sexually conservative. It has nothing to do with assuming the best or worst of people, traditional gender ideas often come with other traditional ideas. I think Zengirl hit the nail on the head when she said non-US born women might assume based on culture and language differences that a man they were dating saw them as a marriage prospect where an American woman is better at seeing which American men are looking for commitment.

 

Most women look at men as an enemy.

No they don't. But several men here (Average Joe, Woggle, Green) look at women as the enemy.

[Woggle]

Most men would have no issue with the other traditional ideas if women played their part. I would have no issue being a provider to a woman that truly appreciated it and was a good wife. I would have an issue with being one for a woman that gave me constant attitude. acted like a spoiled little girl and in many cases cheated left and right because she fell out of love. This is the situation most providers today find themselves in then when she divorces you you still have to be a provider.