U.S Women vs Foreign Women

[jamesum]

What AverageJoe is saying is exaggerated but to be honest there is some truth in it.

 

I grew up in Asia where things are traditional. Women expect men to fill male roles while they will fill their female roles. But in the US (at least in California) women are kind of different in comparison. Here women refuse to fill traditional female roles but at the same time they dont want to do male roles either and ironically expect men to remain fulfilling their traditional roles.

 

Im merely speaking from personal experience and of course there are always exceptions.

 

Their house was always filthily I mean FILTHILY they thew their dishes away when the mold started to grow and she rarely if ever cooked a meal. There are home minded American women out there you just have to be pashent to find one.

Well, if she is the breadwinner and always busy then its understandable if the house is neglected.

Edited August 14, 2010 by jamesum

[AverageJoe]

You aren't looking for a long term committed relationship. You have a problem with porn. You are immoral enough to consider intentionally going after married women.

 

Correct, not looking for a relationship. No problems here with porn, that is false. Intentionally going after married women?

[carhill]

Yeah, having been an OM, the last thing a man who likes to be taken care of would want is a married woman.

[AverageJoe]

OP, relevant question: Since you've used the modifier 'bred' wrt American vs foreign, have you had occasion to date American-bred ex-pat women in other countries, or, foreign-bred women in their own country, for purposes of this 'science experiment'? If not, perhaps your subject variety is not sufficiently diverse. Planes are leaving every day

 

Not as diverse as I would like it to be. In fact, I am looking at a plane ticket to Europe in the fall. My work schedule can be demanding at times and the more I can travel across the pond the better. Any countries of suggestion to add to the que?

[Woggle]

If most men are like me they have no issue with a truly equal marriage. I have a woman who fits my criteria already but all I ask is that she not be a misandrist and be willing to truly be a partner in a marriage instead of looking at me as the enemy and that she truly be commited. Simply finding that is very hard for most men these days.

[zengirl]

If most men are like me they have no issue with a truly equal marriage. I have a woman who fits my criteria already but all I ask is that she not be a misandrist and be willing to truly be a partner in a marriage instead of looking at me as the enemy and that she truly be commited. Simply finding that is very hard for most men these days.

 

This guy isn't looking for a marriage.

 

I think finding a good marriage is hard for everyone, but I also think it's supposed to be hard. You're finding someone to build a life with and stay with till you die (hopefully) who you can put up with 24/7/365 and forsake all others for and factor into every choice you ever make in life. That shouldn't be an easy task.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

 

 

Well, if she is the breadwinner and always busy then its understandable if the house is neglected.

 

Yeah I agree but she wasn't even working half the time the home was like that.

[Woggle]

This guy isn't looking for a marriage.

 

I think finding a good marriage is hard for everyone, but I also think it's supposed to be hard. You're finding someone to build a life with and stay with till you die (hopefully) who you can put up with 24/7/365 and forsake all others for and factor into every choice you ever make in life. That shouldn't be an easy task.

 

Are the things I list too much to ask for in a woman though?

[Tres]

In other cultures, men are so badly spoiled. because american men are not spoiled, the foreign women love american men.

[brainygirl]

Are the things I list too much to ask for in a woman though?

 

No, but they are highly subjective and difficult to quantify.

 

Not a man hater is hard to pin point, while "will take on traditional roles" isn't.

 

I'm not saying the two are equivalent, just that one is easier to prove.

[brainygirl]

In other cultures, men are so badly spoiled. because american men are not spoiled, the foreign women love american men.

 

My exhusband's mom spoiled her husband, would cook separate meal for him, and go on and on about how hard her worked, when she put in ten hour days at work and then came home and kept house while he napped, read the paper, or watched sports. I never understood the dynamic, but it worked for them.

 

My ex was spoiled too, didn't know how to cook or clean for himself or do his own washing. I am not a "man-hater" but I cannot stand helplessness.

 

My boys will know how to take care of themselves as they grow up because I don't want them moving in with girls just to get someone to do it for them, and once they are out on their own, I'm not doing it for them either.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

My exhusband's mom spoiled her husband, would cook separate meal for him, and go on and on about how hard her worked, when she put in ten hour days at work and then came home and kept house while he napped, read the paper, or watched sports. I never understood the dynamic, but it worked for them.

 

My ex was spoiled too, didn't know how to cook or clean for himself or do his own washing. I am not a "man-hater" but I cannot stand helplessness.

 

My boys will know how to take care of themselves as they grow up because I don't want them moving in with girls just to get someone to do it for them, and once they are out on their own, I'm not doing it for them either.

 

So are you saying it should be a 50/50 or that every one in the home should do their own thing completely take care of themselves?

[zengirl]

Are the things I list too much to ask for in a woman though?

 

Oh, no. But you've found it! I think you listed a bare minimum and certainly hope your wife is more than all of that. I wouldn't want to marry a fellow who saw me as the enemy, was a misogynist, or couldn't be committed either. And also, there's attraction, compatibility, and such to consider on top of all that. I don't think most women see men as the enemy. At least not the women I know. But. . . you kind of do sometimes, Woggle. I've got nothing against the giant hypothetical blob known as "men." I can say the average man in certain countries (like the ones where they think I should be stoned for showing my whole face) is off-putting to me. And certainly individual men or men who engage in certain behaviors are. But that's true of loads of groups of women and individual women, too. I'm a humanist. I respect humanity in general.

[brainygirl]

So are you saying it should be a 50/50 or that every one in the home should do their own thing completely take care of themselves?

 

Both. I hate doing dishes but don't mind laundry, so I would hypothetically be ok with doing his laundry.

 

I can see cooking and cleaning up after ward together.

 

But if the other person is someone who has to have someting just so or a certain way, don't let me do it my way and then complain about it, if it bothers you that much do it yourself.

[carhill]

Any countries of suggestion to add to the queue?

 

Well, that time of year the Med would surely be appropriate, IMO. I've only been to Spain (the coast near Barcelona) so don't really know the other areas (France, Italy) from personal travel, only airport layovers. Depending on time, if I had plenty, I'd probably fly into LHR and take the Eurostar and ICE/TGV hi-speed trains to selected countries. You can even connect in Germany to the eastern trains going to the CIS and Baltic States. I've only been to Germany, Poland, and Ukraine in that area. Ukraine doesn't require a visa anymore so is easy to get into now. All provide very diverse experiences. Poland and Ukraine were complete immersion (no language knowledge), but wonderful experiences nonetheless.

 

TBH, if I could snag a good fare to somewhere in Italy and find a villa to rent for a week or two, that's where I'd go. Ideally, fly into FLR and rent a villa in Tuscany. Disappear from the world and discover the secrets of how Italian women can romance and marry much younger men Maybe I'd never come back .....

[zengirl]

My exhusband's mom spoiled her husband, would cook separate meal for him, and go on and on about how hard her worked, when she put in ten hour days at work and then came home and kept house while he napped, read the paper, or watched sports. I never understood the dynamic, but it worked for them.

 

My ex was spoiled too, didn't know how to cook or clean for himself or do his own washing. I am not a "man-hater" but I cannot stand helplessness.

 

My boys will know how to take care of themselves as they grow up because I don't want them moving in with girls just to get someone to do it for them, and once they are out on their own, I'm not doing it for them either.

 

Everyone ought to know how to be a single, autonomous person first, which means doing their own laundry, cooking, basic house repairs, trash-taking-out, etc. I was sent to college with a tool kit. I knew how to screw in lightbulbs, cook meals for myself, sew a button onto a shirt, nail a picture to a wall (and check for studs and such in walls with a level), put together a piece of furniture---basic, not like woodworking or anything---do my own laundry, clean my own house, etc.

 

I can't stand the fellows who can't cook a meal for themselves or do their own laundry any more than I can stand a girl who can't put together her own desk chair or screw in a lightbulb for herself.

 

That said, you don't have to do everything yourself in this world. I can't change my own oil, but I don't need a fellow to do it. I'll just go to the gas station and pay my $30. If a fellow can't sew a button or hem his own pants, I'll probably do it for him if we're together. I'll probably cook him a meal now and again. Likewise, I've had a fellow change my oil or help me put together a desk. But I could've managed without it, and so could he. Some men can cook fantastic meals, and some women are great at putting together furniture or fixing a car. This doesn't have to be any which way in any particular relationship. My point is: Helping one another is good. EXPECTING someone to do things for you is lame.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Both. I hate doing dishes but don't mind laundry, so I would hypothetically be ok with doing his laundry.

 

I can see cooking and cleaning up after ward together.

 

But if the other person is someone who has to have someting just so or a certain way, don't let me do it my way and then complain about it, if it bothers you that much do it yourself.

 

I don't work as ive said before so maybe thats why I honestly don't mind doing the home care. When I can my back being able to that is I have my good and bad days.

 

But generally when he gets home the house is clean dinner is cooked and the wash is ready for the next day. He will help when I ask most of the time unless hes really tired I wont push it if he is cause I know he will next time.

 

I don't mind this as I see it as my role in the home/relationship what I don't get is women who don't work but won't do anything in the home either especially if their guy is out working when those same women say im not his servant type of things.

 

And I have seen that happen a few times I guess maybe its the ME ME ME mentality that runs rampant now a days I dunno I also don't mind cooking him his favorite foods and try to do special things for him not because I have to but because I want to.

[jamesum]

Yeah I agree but she wasn't even working half the time the home was like that.

Then she is one of the 'American' women I was talking about. The ones who wont do the traditional female roles but dont want to do the traditional male roles either. They just wanna do whatever they want.

 

And I have seen that happen a few times I guess maybe its the ME ME ME mentality that runs rampant now a days.

Exactly.

[BeautifulMan]

American women are fooled into believing they are of a higher being than every other person when in fact, they are one of millions. Movies, television and books all illustrate a fantasy life style of which only someone deemed special would experience. Unfortunately, many women, if not most possess a wavering mind frame and cannot accept such a truth. This is all for now.

[zengirl]

Then she is one of the 'American' women I was talking about. The ones who wont do the traditional female roles but dont want to do the traditional male roles either. They just wanna do whatever they want.

 

And if she and her husband are cool with that, then what do you care?

 

Maybe this isn't what you mean, but I think all this "role" talk is silly. Isn't the point of evolving past "Men should do this, women should do that" that we don't have to be stuck in such an archaic distribution of work in a household or outside it, that work is fluid, and that roles are fluid. I don't want to have a traditional male role or a traditional female role, personally.

 

That doesn't mean I'm lazy or looking for someone to float me in the world. I'm an autonomous single person. I work. I plan on always working. I even do extra work in my old field and loads of volunteer work because I just like working. I also do my laundry, cook my meals, and clean my house. One person can do all those things, and certainly two people can get together and do any conceivable combination of them that works for them. I just find "roles" pretty pointless in current society, and I'll certainly never date, nor marry anyone who wants to stick me in a "role." I'm a whole, complete person over here. And, yes, I just want to do whatever I want, as long as it works for my house. I've never been married, but I've lived with someone, and this was never an issue. We both knew how to take care of ourselves, made efforts to take care of each other, and had our own jobs to bring in funds. Nobody needed roles or to feel like they were "forced" into anything -- we did what we wanted -- because we weren't lazy people; we were people who cared about maintaining our finances and our house, and we communicated on anything that came up.

 

Now, if a man or woman approaches marriage wanting specific roles, that's cool for them, but why try to force everybody into that mindset?

Edited August 14, 2010 by zengirl

[jamesum]

And if she and her husband are cool with that, then what do you care?

Who said I care?

 

I only said I didnt like women like her. I made a comment on the woman, not the relationship.

 

And I wasnt exactly talking about roles. I was talking more about having initiatives and being considerate. You know, attitudes. I mean if I lived with someone and she was so busy working to pay the bills while I worked much less, then I would by own initiative try to make it up to her in other ways such as taking care of the house, gave her massages when she got home, gave her surprises, etc.

 

Sorry, Im not a selfish person who takes my partner for granted and thinks that my partner is priviledged to have me in her life and Im not gonna do anything to show otherwise. And I expect the same attitude from my partner.

 

By the way, when I said such women only want to do whatever they wanted, I made a mistake. I mean to say such women want to do NOTHING.

Edited August 14, 2010 by jamesum

[Mr White]

Now, in a non-Westernized country, it is easier to find a traditional woman who is naive enough to believe men who sleep with her will marry her after (She might also have some relatives to enforce this ) AND who misses a lot of the signals an English-speaking gal would pick up because of a language difference. The UK gal wouldn't fit into this though.

 

This is part of why many creepy weirdos can sometimes do well in Korea. But then the Korean girl gets jilted, society gets mad, and some people begin to form new resentments towards foreign men (which is unfortunate to the good foreigners here) and create all sorts of interesting little bubbles of hostility. Which foreign men then put off to jealousy (maybe some of it is, but most of it is more big-brother syndrome, as most of he fellows who get angry about this have known a Korean gal who was treated badly by a foreigner in my experience). It's mildly fascinating.

 

This is an interesting point, and if true - oh so sweet. (Of course, anybody who uses such attitude for evil selfish ends is a douche too.) There a re many problems if the only choice of a sweet girl are limited to a religious fundamentalist.So, it is nice to have a culture that expects, or assumes, the best of intentions in you, rather than once that assumes that you are a dangerous monster if you pee standing up.

[zengirl]

Who said I care?

 

I only said I didnt like women like her. I made a comment on the woman, not the relationship.

 

And I wasnt exactly talking about roles. I was talking more about having initiatives and being considerate. You know, attitudes. I mean if I lived with someone and she was so busy working to pay the bills while I worked much less, then I would by own initiative try to make it up to her in other ways such as taking care of the house, gave her massages when she got home, gave her surprises, etc.

 

Sorry, Im not a selfish person who takes my partner for granted and thinks that my partner is priviledged to have me in her life and Im not gonna do anything to show otherwise. And I expect the same attitude from my partner.

 

Then you didn't necessarily mean it the way it was phrased in either post, where you spoke about traditional roles. So, my point was moot.

[Mr White]

And if she and her husband are cool with that, then what do you care?

 

Maybe this isn't what you mean, but I think all this "role" talk is silly. Isn't the point of evolving past "Men should do this, women should do that" that we don't have to be stuck in such an archaic distribution of work in a household or outside it, that work is fluid, and that roles are fluid. I don't want to have a traditional male role or a traditional female role, personally.

 

That doesn't mean I'm lazy or looking for someone to float me in the world. I'm an autonomous single person. I work. I plan on always working. I even do extra work in my old field and loads of volunteer work because I just like working. I also do my laundry, cook my meals, and clean my house. One person can do all those things, and certainly two people can get together and do any conceivable combination of them that works for them. I just find "roles" pretty pointless in current society, and I'll certainly never date, nor marry anyone who wants to stick me in a "role." I'm a whole, complete person over here. And, yes, I just want to do whatever I want, as long as it works for my house. I've never been married, but I've lived with someone, and this was never an issue. We both knew how to take care of ourselves, made efforts to take care of each other, and had our own jobs to bring in funds. Nobody needed roles or to feel like they were "forced" into anything -- we did what we wanted -- because we weren't lazy people; we were people who cared about maintaining our finances and our house, and we communicated on anything that came up.

 

Now, if a man or woman approaches marriage wanting specific roles, that's cool for them, but why try to force everybody into that mindset?

 

As long as there is reciprocity, it doesn't matter how exactly it plays out. The problem is when there is no reciprocity. E.g. a wife who does not work, but still expects the husband to pay for a nanny and a maid.

[zengirl]

This is an interesting point, and if true - oh so sweet. (Of course, anybody who uses such attitude for evil selfish ends is a douche too.) There a re many problems if the only choice of a sweet girl are limited to a religious fundamentalist.So, it is nice to have a culture that expects, or assumes, the best of intentions in you, rather than once that assumes that you are a dangerous monster if you pee standing up.

 

By relatives to enforce it, I mean relatives who will violently attack you once you jilt her. And/or try to get you arrested or deported. (Not always or even usually, hence the "might".) So, it's not naivete on the part of the whole family. Usually it's just the girl. Korean girls stay young and naive longer than most Westernized girls. . . as far as I've noticed. Exceptions abound, I'm sure. But the culture is a very "young" culture in some ways, and there seems to be a young/single or old/married line that is more clear-cut than our building cynicism.