U.S Women vs Foreign Women

[that girl]

That's 4000 coming from the established agencies, and another 100k-150k advertise individually on their own as seeking US husbands. There are probably many times that number of men who just go informally on their own and meet a foreign woman not from an agency and not specifically advertising. I mean why pay an agency or even read ads when you can just fly to Rio? So you were saying?

 

I don't see this thread as foreign women appreciating the glory that is American masculinity as much as foreign women not being entitled, amoral and unwilling to accept any accountability for their actions. I don't think any of these men in this thread are looking for anything other than a fair deal. And though I don't agree with the premise of this thread, I do agree that it's full of the type of male-bashing that has pretty much driven some men to look elsewhere for love, respect and decent companionship.

 

You really object to mail order bride agencies checking to see if clients have any domestic violence charges? Really? Even though several mail order brides have been killed by husbands who had a long rap sheet? Seriously?

 

A personals ad is different than a mail order bride but if the hundreds of thousands of mail order ads out there are only leading to 4,000 US marriages, logic suggests that number is even lower. There is no evidence that many US men go the mail order route.

 

When you call American women amoral, entitled, and unwilling to accept accountability for their actions, you are talking about your mom. You are talking about any sisters or daughters you might have. You are talking about nuns who devote their lives to serve others. It is nothing but misogyny. You can talk all you want about evil straw women, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the one who hates an entire gender.

[Woggle]

Says the guy with the loving and supportive wife.

 

Woggle you're a pretty good example of men who hate women despite having proof of the many good women out there.

 

I might have a good wife but it is obvious that male/female relationships these days are just not working out for the most part. Can you deny this? Look at that article somebody posted about walkaway wives.

[Woggle]

When you call American women amoral, entitled, and unwilling to accept accountability for their actions, you are talking about your mom. You are talking about any sisters or daughters you might have. You are talking about nuns who devote their lives to serve others. It is nothing but misogyny. You can talk all you want about evil straw women, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the one who hates an entire gender.

 

And when women call men pigs, overgrown children, scum any other things they throw at us they talking about their brothers and sons as well.

[Enchanted Girl]

And when women call men pigs, overgrown children, scum any other things they throw at us they talking about their brothers and sons as well.

 

Well, good thing none of us here are calling men that. LOL.

 

But seriously, yea, people who call men in an overall sense pigs and sum and overgrown children and all that are hurt and stereotyping a gender as a whole because of it unfairly.

[Woggle]

Well, good thing none of us here are calling men that. LOL.

 

But seriously, yea, people who call men in an overall sense pigs and sum and overgrown children and all that are hurt and stereotyping a gender as a whole because of it unfairly.

 

They are things I heard my entire life even from my mother. She used to call me a future rapist all the time. As many trust issues as I have with women I would never advocate violence against them but that doesn't matter to her. To this day she still believes that I abused my ex wife despite the fact that she was caught lying in court.

[Enchanted Girl]

They are things I heard my entire life even from my mother. She used to call me a future rapist all the time. As many trust issues as I have with women I would never advocate violence against them but that doesn't matter to her. To this day she still believes that I abused my ex wife despite the fact that she was caught lying in court.

 

I'm sorry that you went through that.

[Woggle]

I'm sorry that you went through that.

 

It is a big reason why I am the way I am today. It has to eat her up inside that a feminist like her raised a misogynist.

[Green]

It is a big reason why I am the way I am today. It has to eat her up inside that a feminist like her raised a misogynist.

 

Please your views seem almost tame compared to mind. I loved my mother though and she was nothing but kind and great to me. My mother was beautiful and smart. Not stupid and fat like so many american women these days.

[Woggle]

Please your views seem almost tame compared to mind. I loved my mother though and she was nothing but kind and great to me. My mother was beautiful and smart. Not stupid and fat like so many american women these days.

 

Probably because I am used to it. I am not even that mad at women anymore. I am more mad at men for not seeing the truth and continuing to fall for their games. I expect it from women at this point. I am shocked when I meet a woman that isn't like that.

[Green]

Probably because I am used to it. I am not even that mad at women anymore. I am more mad at men for not seeing the truth and continuing to fall for their games. I expect it from women at this point. I am shocked when I meet a woman that isn't like that.

 

You are one of the men I have been mad at lately.

 

You just seem to have fear in you of what we both know to be true. Some times you seem in denial and afraid of the truth at the same time. The same way these women fear and deny the truth while perpetuating it as do the American women on avg...

[meerkat stew]

This simply isn't true. Early manufacturing was a woman's profession (see the Lowell girls and the Triangle factory fire). There were always a decent number of single women who needed an income because they never married or were widowed.

 

I never said that women did not work in certain early manufacturing, as we all know they did, children did also for that matter. But saying "early manufacturing was a women's profession?" Guess you got me there what with all the female blacksmiths, foundry workers, millwrights, shipwrights, coal miners, etc. etc. during the industrial revolution and after.

 

People tend to forget conveniently (as with so much other feminist claptrap) that until the 1900s, the world GDP was 80% or more small farm agriculture and hardly anyone, male or female, had a "job" to be discriminated against in obtaining or performing. The concept "job" was a NOVEL one up until the postwar boom, and was a NEW one in the economy up until the 60s, when the service economy BEGAN the process of emerging. Before that, working life sucked out loud for EVERYBODY, as farm life then was very hard.

 

So what does that leave us "TEN YEARS OF HORRIBLE MALE OPPRESSION OF WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE!!" ROFLM...F...AO. That's what the entire "women's rights movement" boils down to in the harsh light of historical truth. It's all a giant lie, the whole of "feminism," a lie for political gain (and of course to help keep the semi-literates in the academy off in the social sciences department where they belong).

 

Women were paid less because employers could get away with it, but there were always in the economy. They were just shunted into low paying jobs because of discrimination. It was not because there weren't enough jobs for the men.

 

When was this "shunting into low paying jobs, btw?" and where? 1959-1967 in the steno pool? What a hideous ordeal of cruelty life as a woman must have been during those 8 years of torture typing all those letters in the steno pool while men fought and died in Korea and Vietnam. How did -you- ever make it through that? Oh wait, how old are you again? Have you -personally- ever suffered any kind of unequal wage or work discrimination really? Do tell.

 

until the women's movement came along.

 

When exactly did this "woman's movement" supposedly come along? Isn't it amazing that it just happened to "come along" immediately after the left had used agitprop to expand the legitimate civil rights movement into the abominable "Great Society?" Isn't it most likely the case that the so-called women's movement was just a "tack-on" to polarize women against men and get them voting the "correct" way?

 

"Hell, if it worked on the blacks, let's see if we can get the women too while we are at it...of course women weren't really mistreated, but if we spin it right we can get them firmly entrenched in the victim's role in just a few years and malleable as clay thereafter"

 

about sums it up, right?

 

As for physical differences...

 

Agree with all that, but the truth remains that there are MANY jobs in history that women just could not do, some are mentioned above and won't retype. These types of jobs KILL men who do them long enough. The point is that the desire to protect the species' reproductive capacity, a capacity MUCH more fragile in the past than it is today, led to many conditions that though they can be looked back on now with rose colored glasses and decried rather easily, had nothing at all to do with any kind of discrimination, oppression, or keeping women down.

[Woggle]

You are one of the men I have been mad at lately.

 

You just seem to have fear in you of what we both know to be true. Some times you seem in denial and afraid of the truth at the same time. The same way these women fear and deny the truth while perpetuating it as do the American women on avg...

 

Because I try so hard to believe it is not true. I wish it weren't.

[Green]

Because I try so hard to believe it is not true. I wish it weren't.

 

Well we both know all to well how true it is. No reason to fear it. Embrace it. I live in a world whre as policy I will get a birth control test for my wife even if I had no reason to think she cheated... Just for policy.

 

I really don't like the reality that on average U.S. women are of poorer quality when compared with Foreign women but I accept that fact and I don't fear it.

 

Your fear just clouds your judgment. Your fear will cause what you fear to happen. Embrace reality and don't fear it.

[meerkat stew]

You really object to mail order bride agencies checking to see if clients have any domestic violence charges?

 

:rolleyes: No problem at all with anyone checking matters of public record. Do you think that's all there is to the statute?

 

only leading to 4,000 US marriages,

 

Sorry, I'm just not going to be able to reply to you further. It's very clear that the statistic is that 4000-6000 agency women come to the US to get married. ANOTHER 100-150,000 women advertise themselves outside an agency, and there's just no way to know how many of those actually marry US men. Finally, as I have already typed, and don't appreciate retyping, IMO, most men would just travel overseas to meet foreign women rather than using ads or agencies. So, to RETYPE, the actual number of marriages of US men to foreign women is likely a tremendously larger annual number than 4000-6000. And this thread isn't "mail order specific" anyway, but rather concerning US men seeking foreign women generally, a much larger phenomena than mere matchmaking agencies.

 

When you call American women amoral, entitled, and unwilling to accept accountability for their actions, you are talking about your mom...

 

No, sorry, I'm not talking about my mom, sister, nuns, etc., or any other absurdity you can conjure, but the broad experience of DATING US women with these qualities that many men seem to share. Of course rather than ever admitting that there may be some attitude problems in American women where dating/relationships/expectations are concerned, you turn the entire blame, the entirety of it, around on men, call them/us all misogynists, accept none of the blame at all, and therein prove my point in spades.

[Green]

I love how clear cut and understandable meerkat is yet "that girl" just doesn't understand a word.

[stillafool]

There is something I am considering giving up, and that is this. Dating American bred women. I have talked recently about this with many who know me and I am beginning to consider giving up on American women.

 

I am starting to think that the women here in the U.S. are bitches. Mouthy bitches that chunk up and butch their hair off after you get with them. Who boss you around and tell us how equal they are. Trying to remind you of all the advantages and benefits of having a vagina with none of the responsibility. Being told you have two hands you can do it yourself, or you have one hand you can do it yourself.

 

I find foreign women have a different attitude towards men. Their mothers and grandmothers please their man with pride. They don’t get all caught up in proving they are equal. They understand there are male roles and female roles.

 

By the way im not being critical of you if that’s what you like. If you want to be a pussy and be told what to do then come home to an empty house every other night, then live it up. American girls are for you! Women who have babies and say they don’t need a man around, then afterwards they have babies and can’t figure out why they can’t find a man.

 

Im thinking I like gals from other countries. The cultures are completely different, I think I like it. I’m not talking about mail order brides or trips to Thailand im talking about women who grew up with different culture. I am sadly beginning to grow a distaste for our female culture in this country.

 

The first gaI I went out with from another country was from England, eastern decent, she had been here nine years and I met her at a concert oddly enough. I was AMAZED, I could not beleive it. She took care of me like no other women ever has. Was this a fluke?

 

The second was from El Salvador, she had been here about fourteen years. She was the one that coined the phrase for me that I wrote earlier, American women are bitches. All they want to do is take, she said. She would do anything to make me happy, and that made her happy. She was criticized by her peers for it.

 

There have been a couple of more, but one even put toothpaste on my toothbrush and had it waiting for me. That blew me away! That was very over the top for me and a tad uncomfortable but the gesture told me volumes. I am a self sufficient man that takes complete care of myself with no complaints, but the contrast I experienced really surprised me. I still love, love, love American women, but this is something I am considering.

 

Gentlemen, have you had any experience in this area?

 

Discuss.

 

 

Wow, I'm sorry you are unhappy with the way American women have treated you. I am an American woman and I apologize on behalf of us all. However, if you are really serious about dating women from other countries I just saw a documentary where women in Thailand are dying to be with American men. You might give them a try. Good luck on your search!

[Enchanted Girl]

Probably because I am used to it. I am not even that mad at women anymore. I am more mad at men for not seeing the truth and continuing to fall for their games. I expect it from women at this point. I am shocked when I meet a woman that isn't like that.

 

Well, you shouldn't be shocked when you meet women who aren't like that. There's lots of women who aren't.

 

I don't like it when people treat other people like crap in relationships. It makes me very upset.

 

I do have a friend, she is my best friend, and her and I sometimes fight because I do not approve of the way she treats her boyfriend. It's very hard for me NOT to say something about it though when she's doing things like talking to her ex-boyfriends or thinking about cheating on him or something.

[Enchanted Girl]

I never said that women did not work in certain early manufacturing, as we all know they did, children did also for that matter. But saying "early manufacturing was a women's profession?" Guess you got me there what with all the female blacksmiths, foundry workers, millwrights, shipwrights, coal miners, etc. etc. during the industrial revolution and after.

 

People tend to forget conveniently (as with so much other feminist claptrap) that until the 1900s, the world GDP was 80% or more small farm agriculture and hardly anyone, male or female, had a "job" to be discriminated against in obtaining or performing. The concept "job" was a NOVEL one up until the postwar boom, and was a NEW one in the economy up until the 60s, when the service economy BEGAN the process of emerging. Before that, working life sucked out loud for EVERYBODY, as farm life then was very hard.

 

So what does that leave us "TEN YEARS OF HORRIBLE MALE OPPRESSION OF WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE!!" ROFLM...F...AO. That's what the entire "women's rights movement" boils down to in the harsh light of historical truth. It's all a giant lie, the whole of "feminism," a lie for political gain (and of course to help keep the semi-literates in the academy off in the social sciences department where they belong).

 

 

 

When was this "shunting into low paying jobs, btw?" and where? 1959-1967 in the steno pool? What a hideous ordeal of cruelty life as a woman must have been during those 8 years of torture typing all those letters in the steno pool while men fought and died in Korea and Vietnam. How did -you- ever make it through that? Oh wait, how old are you again? Have you -personally- ever suffered any kind of unequal wage or work discrimination really? Do tell.

 

 

 

When exactly did this "woman's movement" supposedly come along? Isn't it amazing that it just happened to "come along" immediately after the left had used agitprop to expand the legitimate civil rights movement into the abominable "Great Society?" Isn't it most likely the case that the so-called women's movement was just a "tack-on" to polarize women against men and get them voting the "correct" way?

 

"Hell, if it worked on the blacks, let's see if we can get the women too while we are at it...of course women weren't really mistreated, but if we spin it right we can get them firmly entrenched in the victim's role in just a few years and malleable as clay thereafter"

 

about sums it up, right?

 

 

 

Agree with all that, but the truth remains that there are MANY jobs in history that women just could not do, some are mentioned above and won't retype. These types of jobs KILL men who do them long enough. The point is that the desire to protect the species' reproductive capacity, a capacity MUCH more fragile in the past than it is today, led to many conditions that though they can be looked back on now with rose colored glasses and decried rather easily, had nothing at all to do with any kind of discrimination, oppression, or keeping women down.

 

Women who work just as hard as men and have the same job as they do and the same education and put in the same hours are still paid today less than men are. They justify it by saying that women might have children and therefore quit their jobs and take care of their children instead of actually working.

 

Anyway, no, women never had it easy then and they don't have it easy now. Taking care of a home and children is not an easy thing. Taking care of a garden or helping to take care of a farm back then wasn't easy either. But they still had an equivalent problems. They'd help their husbands work on the farm, but it was still only him who profited from it. So it was still only him with the "job", even if it wasn't labeled that because women, until recently, haven't been allowed to own property. If they tried to divorce their husband because he beat her or cheated on her or something, she'd have a horrible life and be unable to own the kinds of farms and things that men did because only women who stayed at home and had kids were worth anything.

 

But let's pretend none of that was true. Things still were by no means fair.

 

How would you like it if you were not allowed to pursue a college education? Women weren't allowed to.

 

How would you like it if you weren't allowed to vote? Women weren't allowed to.

 

Women didn't have any say in their marriages and in the way men treated them. They just had to get married or die in poverty. Our entire EXISTENCES were wrapped up in men and everything involving them.

 

You also didn't really study history and how women were arrested for voting, thrown rocks at for wearing pants, and harassed and abused for daring to have opinions. Research Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Amelia Bloomer, and people like them, please.

 

No, it wasn't as bad as all of us being put on plantations as slaves and beaten and treated like crap by our owners or something, but to say that women went through nothing is like saying that being beaten up and put in the hospital is nothing just because you didn't die. You may have not suffered the worst fate, but that doesn't mean the struggle didn't exist.

[that girl]

And when women call men pigs, overgrown children, scum any other things they throw at us they talking about their brothers and sons as well.

 

Obviously that is just as wrong.

 

But no one in this thread is saying that.

 

Instead we have you, green, average joe, and meekrat making hateful comments about women.

 

It has to eat her up inside that a feminist like her raised a misogynist.

But it is your loving wife who has to live with someone who secretly thinks her gender is basically evil. And innocent women on this forum have to read your hateful comments.

 

I'm sorry your mom was cruel. That is terrible. But you're a grown man. How you think and act is on you at this point. And I would say the same thing to a man hating woman.

[that girl]

Sorry, I'm just not going to be able to reply to you further. It's very clear that the statistic is that 4000-6000 agency women come to the US to get married. ANOTHER 100-150,000 women advertise themselves outside an agency, and there's just no way to know how many of those actually marry US men. Finally, as I have already typed, and don't appreciate retyping, IMO, most men would just travel overseas to meet foreign women rather than using ads or agencies. So, to RETYPE, the actual number of marriages of US men to foreign women is likely a tremendously larger annual number than 4000-6000. And this thread isn't "mail order specific" anyway, but rather concerning US men seeking foreign women generally, a much larger phenomena than mere matchmaking agencies.

 

Men or women marrying people from abroad is a distinct category from people who use mail order agencies or go looking for foriegn wormen because of how horrible American women are. I have several friends who used a fiancee visa and none of them did it for the reasons your listing.

 

Thousands of women advertising themselves as mail order brides means nothing in terms of marriage.

 

No, sorry, I'm not talking about my mom, sister, nuns, etc., or any other absurdity you can conjure, but the broad experience of DATING US women with these qualities that many men seem to share.

Yes, you are. Those women (save the nuns) are on the dating scene. If you find US women impossible to date, odds are the issue is you.

 

Of course rather than ever admitting that there may be some attitude problems in American women where dating/relationships/expectations are concerned, you turn the entire blame, the entirety of it, around on men, call them/us all misogynists, accept none of the blame at all, and therein prove my point in spades

150 million women cannot be all bad. It is highly unlikely that they are any worse than the 150 million men in the US.

 

I do not think men are to blame. I know lots of nice men. I think you, average joe, green, and woggle have psychological problems.

[Green]

Women who work just as hard as men and have the same job as they do and the same education and put in the same hours are still paid today less than men are. They justify it by saying that women might have children and therefore quit their jobs and take care of their children instead of actually working.

 

Anyway, no, women never had it easy then and they don't have it easy now. Taking care of a home and children is not an easy thing. Taking care of a garden or helping to take care of a farm back then wasn't easy either. But they still had an equivalent problems. They'd help their husbands work on the farm, but it was still only him who profited from it. So it was still only him with the "job", even if it wasn't labeled that because women, until recently, haven't been allowed to own property. If they tried to divorce their husband because he beat her or cheated on her or something, she'd have a horrible life and be unable to own the kinds of farms and things that men did because only women who stayed at home and had kids were worth anything.

 

But let's pretend none of that was true. Things still were by no means fair.

 

How would you like it if you were not allowed to pursue a college education? Women weren't allowed to.

 

How would you like it if you weren't allowed to vote? Women weren't allowed to.

 

Women didn't have any say in their marriages and in the way men treated them. They just had to get married or die in poverty. Our entire EXISTENCES were wrapped up in men and everything involving them.

 

You also didn't really study history and how women were arrested for voting, thrown rocks at for wearing pants, and harassed and abused for daring to have opinions. Research Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Amelia Bloomer, and people like them, please.

 

No, it wasn't as bad as all of us being put on plantations as slaves and beaten and treated like crap by our owners or something, but to say that women went through nothing is like saying that being beaten up and put in the hospital is nothing just because you didn't die. You may have not suffered the worst fate, but that doesn't mean the struggle didn't exist.

 

I blame all this on women. I think women treat other women far worse then men. Especialy nasty american women (on average)

[Enchanted Girl]

I blame all this on women. I think women treat other women far worse then men. Especialy nasty american women (on average)

 

Women treat each other badly sometimes, yes.

 

But it's kind of hard to blame this whole thing on women when they weren't allowed to even have an open opinion about it at the time.

[that girl]

I never said that women did not work in certain early manufacturing, as we all know they did, children did also for that matter. But saying "early manufacturing was a women's profession?" Guess you got me there what with all the female blacksmiths, foundry workers, millwrights, shipwrights, coal miners, etc. etc. during the industrial revolution and after.

I was referring to factory work as early manufacturing, which the entire paragraph made clear.

 

Do you honestly think there is a biological reason more women weren't blacksmiths? It isn't a job that requires great physical strength, nor are the others you listed. The fact that men mostly held these jobs has nothing to do with innate ability.

 

 

 

 

So what does that leave us "TEN YEARS OF HORRIBLE MALE OPPRESSION OF WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE!!" ROFLM...F...AO. That's what the entire "women's rights movement" boils down to in the harsh light of historical truth. It's all a giant lie, the whole of "feminism," a lie for political gain (and of course to help keep the semi-literates in the academy off in the social sciences department where they belong).

The women's rights movement does not boil down to 10 years of workplace discrimination. It is about

-The hundreds of years women were barred from having a say in government.

-Women were once considered property and it took hundreds of years from women to gain full property rights in the Western world. Women have only had the legal right to their own bank accounts since the 70s.

-Wife beating, once completely legal, now still a problem, but generally considered unacceptable.

-The fact that women were barred from specific professions for no real reason and legally paid less in fields like teaching and secretarial work (both of which have been around for hundreds of years). Women were routinely fired after getting married until the 60s and 70s.

 

When was this "shunting into low paying jobs, btw?" and where? 1959-1967 in the steno pool? What a hideous ordeal of cruelty life as a woman must have been during those 8 years of torture typing all those letters in the steno pool while men fought and died in Korea and Vietnam. How did -you- ever make it through that? Oh wait, how old are you again? Have you -personally- ever suffered any kind of unequal wage or work discrimination really? Do tell.

Pretending it is just the steno pool is ridiculous. Women were actively barred from professions ranging from medicine to carpentry regardless of skill or training. The majority of teachers have been women since the 1900s, but there was a discrimination against women becoming principals. This happened in a range of professions that were female dominated such as nursing and switchboard operations. It was perfectly legal to pay women less for the same job until the equal pay act.

 

When exactly did this "woman's movement" supposedly come along? Isn't it amazing that it just happened to "come along" immediately after the left had used agitprop to expand the legitimate civil rights movement into the abominable "Great Society?" Isn't it most likely the case that the so-called women's movement was just a "tack-on" to polarize women against men and get them voting the "correct" way?

The women's movement began with the suffrage movement. The suffrage movement grew out of the anti-slavery movement. The whole US women's movement can be traced back to an anti-slavery meeting in the 1960s. The men in the audience refused to be seated with the women, including Sojourn Truth (see her "Ain't I a woman?" speech"). Which led to lots of women's rights groups being founded within the anti-slavery movement.

 

As for rights look elsewhere on my post. Being allowed to keep your job after you marry is hardly a wedge driven between men and women, it is a basic right.

 

PS- The Great Society was Lyndon Johnson's program in the mid 60s. That was a few years before the woman's rights movement and it did thinks like create Medicaid, pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and alleviate poverty in Appalachia.

 

"Hell, if it worked on the blacks, let's see if we can get the women too while we are at it...of course women weren't really mistreated, but if we spin it right we can get them firmly entrenched in the victim's role in just a few years and malleable as clay thereafter"

It is totally fair to not allow female applicants for a job, even when they meet all the requirements! (Bowe v. Colgate-Palmolive Company, 1969).

 

Who cares if a widow with a 2 year old can be denied a job? She should just find some man to take care of her! (Phillips v. Martin Marietta, 1971)

 

Who care if women aren't allowed to take part in juries? Men really do know best! (Taylor v. Louisiana, 1975)

 

Why shouldn't men have total control over joint marital property? I mean even if a woman works, she's just a lady and doesn't deserve any say in whether or not the house she jointly owns is sold (Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 1981)

 

None of this feminist crap was necessary! The ladies should just be grateful the way those foriegn broads are!

[that girl]

I blame all this on women. I think women treat other women far worse then men. Especialy nasty american women (on average)

 

Green, you just said that Woggle's beliefs about were moderate compared to yours. And Woggle has admitted he knows he has some unfair beliefs about women.

 

Women are no more perfect than men, but someone who admits to having issues with women is in no place to judge women.

[Tony]

I've had enough of this very sick generalization of American women and foreign women. There is no basis to most of this. Also, the off topic stuff is out of hand as well. We are closing this puppy up and don't start anymore like threads for some months.