Love her...But frustrated with her

[Tractor]

I have another post that I wrote after a recent visit to SO. I wrote it while on a high point and very optimistic. Its in "Second Chances" Its not like I dont know why she left, or understand it. I really do. The breakup was because of my affair, no doubt. We have a child we were raising together, and I am supporting them willingly at this point. We have not gone NC as a choice agreed on by both.

 

I get an e-mail from her talking about other stuff and included in this e-mail is a paragraph talking about how she got the job offer from a private school we were trying to get the child in. This would also gaurantee admittance at a much lower tuition. She writes about how sad that makes her. This might have helped us, I would have something to focus on besides our problem, it would be good for the child, i would have time out of the house.....ect...ect. I think but didnt say "then move your a$$ back"

 

Last night she calls telling me that she had talked to a friend she has had since HS,college days.(I know this friend as well and have respect for her) This friend tells her that her and her husband went through a very similar situation. Roles wer reversed. It was something they were able to get past and husband NEVER brings it up. I want to belive that she tells me this so I know she is trying to be able to forgive. She tells me she is.

 

Today she calls me trying to get cable and internet hooked up and childs DVD player cabled in. This was something I always did, I have a tech career she is an educator. I try to walk her through it and can tell she is getting frustrated. Which internally gets me frustrated. I remain calm, try to reassure her it will be ok. Its not the end of the world. She then tells me how she misses all the thing I did for her and how it was so much eaiser in her life with me. Not just than when without me but compared to previous marriage. Again I want to say " I know Im the one who strayed,but you walked out"

 

This was not a long term affair, a short fling when we were emotionally detached from each other. I am truly not trying to justify my actions. But you moved out within two days of finding out and you knew it had been over for months. You werent even willing to talk about it. Now you are 500 miles away,living near adult child. You know I cant just show up and fix things. You tell me you want to work it out, but right now you need space to think. I offered to let you stay here and I would move out. You say you cant move back in this house because "IT" happened here. You cant uproot child again. You have uprooted child several times,what makes this different.(only as related to child) And the truth is the child would rather be here. Even if we were apart. I havent said these things to her in this manner. Some we have talked about, most of the harsher ones Im just venting about.

 

I care for and love the child and can understand the moving again. Child ask her, and then ask me to confirm moms answer. What if we hate it here or hate the arrangment. She answered and I confirmed to child that all you have to do is tell me and we will make it happen. Do not worry about this. I would even be willing to move there if it was in the best intrest of all. We have visited there many times over the years and had truly considered moving there at one point, so thats not out of the question. As long as we as a family were making real progress in solving our problem, I dont care where we live if we are together. I can make a living there,mabey more money than here, so the job part dosent deter a move on my part.

 

I am so in love with this woman. Yet I know most if not all of the blame lies with me. I would do anything to make her happy. Even staying away and out of her life. If I thought she was happier without me I am willing to give her that. There is no one else in my life. There is no one else in hers. She has only been there as a family, visiting adult child,vacation, stoppin in while passing through on the way to somewhere else. It dosent seem(to me) that she wants me to stop trying, yet Im not sure what to do.

 

Not that men cant respond, but I would like some insight from a womans point of view on this

[Ronni_W]

You both seem to agree on the logic/reasons for her staying where she is.

 

Have you given any serious thought to looking for a job in that area, and then moving there?

Of course you'd want to have conversations with her before you actually do anything towards fulfilling such a plan...but you first need to decide if it's a plan that you're interested in, for yourself and on your own. (If that makes sense?)

 

You've done a great job of taking responsibility for what you did that caused the split. The next step is for you to take responsibility for the lion's share of work that will be required if there is going to be a genuine, lasting reconciliation.

 

It comes across that you're afraid (or just unwilling?) to put yourself on the line. Which is fine, except that it won't score you a reconciliation or even a decent chance at one.

 

You're waiting for her to...what, exactly? Ask for your promise that you're not gonna screw it all up the next time? Why not just make that promise to her, of your own free will?

Whatever it is that you're waiting for her to do...ASK HER if she'd consider doing it.

Whatever it is that is in your heart for yourself, for her, for your child, for your (combined) futures...TELL HER. Be honest and open with her.

 

Put yourself on the line for what you want. If it's pride or ego or arrogance that's holding you back...do whatever you gotta do to eliminate it. Take the risk upon yourself and make yourself emotionally vulnerable. NOT for her, but so that you can start to get back the life and the love that you really want. (At least, from my reading of it, it seems to be what you really want.)

 

It's not easy. It's not SUPPOSED to be easy. There's nothing wrong with working hard to get what we want; nothing terrible about humbling ourselves if that's part of what we must do to achieve our own goals and dreams; nothing traumatic about enduring some emotional discomfort in pursuit of our own happiness and contentment.

 

I'm also guilty of sometimes just sitting on my ass and expecting/waiting for someone else or a group of others to be ready and willing to make sacrifices and suffer discomfort and give up their ego-pride on my account. And yes, it is frustrating when they don't.

 

But the frustration is misdirected. We should be pissed off at ourselves for not being willing to make our own efforts for our own goals and dreams, and instead just sitting on our assess waiting for others to make our life happen the way we want.

 

If you were to get deeply honest with yourself, what is stopping you from just putting it all on the line and telling her your hopes, dreams, feelings and fears about all of it? Whatever your reasons excuses, do whatever it takes to overcome them. Would be my strong suggestion.

 

Sending Courage, Wisdom and Guidance, and

Hoping that you will make your dreams your reality

[Tractor]

Ronni

 

Thanks for the reply. I have done a lot of the things you talk about. I have ask her for he forgiveness, I have talked to her about moving there and she agrees that it would be easier for us to work it out if we were closer together. I do know she does need some time alone, if for nothing else to process her thoughts. would you go look at my thread in "Second Chances" titled "What I want to do" then let me know what you think?

[Tractor]

Thought I would also add. I have made a commitment to her that there will never be a major issue in this realitionship caused by me. I will come to you first, all I ask is that if you see something differently talk to me about it. She by her own admission has had a hard time stating her wants and needs, from childhood, didnt start with me. Many times I would know something was up and ask and she still had a hard time expressing it. I have commited to the lions share of the work in reconcillation and I belive she belives me. I never expected this to be easy and have told her that when it gets emotionall difficult to let me know how she feels and we will stop for a little break, and just have fun together. Most of these thing we talked about in person as we both see phone and e-mail as a little cold. Sometimes something comes up we need to discuss and its a must, but we try to keep the real stuff face to face.

[Ronni_W]

Tractor,

I'll post in your other thread (even if just to say, "I got nothing to say" ) -- gotta run out for a bit, so it'll be a tad later, though.

I have talked to her about moving there and she agrees that it would be easier for us to work it out if we were closer together. I do know she does need some time alone,

Wanted to comment on above. I do get that she needs time alone. But you can give that to her even if you are living in the same city...on the same street...right next door, even.

 

Not that I'm suggesting to move in next door. I'm trying to "be nice" <lol> about saying that it's just your BS excuse to not actually move your ass on moving closer.

In any case, finding a job and doing all that such a move would entail will take time. And, if, at that point (once you get there), she still needs space/time alone then there won't be anything stopping you from giving it to her. Yes, it may need some self-discipline on your part, but so what? It's not supposed to be all easy-peasy.

 

More importantly, though. You ACTUALLY doing something concrete about moving closer will be your solid message/proof to her that you really are serious about what you say you want, and you really are willing to put in some actual effort about getting this relationship back on track. I believe she will welcome your action instead of your just paying lip service to eventually making an effort. Because...

 

As a woman, it is so infuriating when male partners do that. They keep saying, "I'll do whatever it takes"...but never get around to actually doing even one tiny little thing. We get so bored and tired of hearing the same lame promises, which, we realize have no weight behind them. Soon enough, we realize that we'd be absolute fools to believe the empty words. And we realize that the man behind the empty promises is not as trustworthy, or committed to the reconciliation process, as we thought and as the partnership needs him to be. [/end rant]

 

Okay. So like it says, that previous paragraph was a rant. BUT if you do recognize yourself in even a half-sentence, it wouldn't hurt for you to start to wonder what kind of damage you may be doing to your long-term reconciliation prospects. (If you don't recognize yourself in it...please just ignore the whole dang thang, wouldja please?)

Edited August 13, 2010 by Ronni_W

[Tractor]

I know its sometimes hard for a woman to belive it when a man says such things. I never made a promise to her I didnt keep. I never lied to her, except by omission with the affair. The reason that we lived here was that she wasnt really happy living where we used to live because my job then had me traveling( to here a good percentage of the time) She talked about moving here and at first I really wasnt sold on the idea, (I liked it there,we had a nice home in the mountians on a lake with acres and acres for the kids) two at home at the time, one from each of her previous marriages. A couple of days later she brought it up again and I realized how important this was to her. I took some time off and within 20 days we were moving to a rented house until we found a place to buy. I changed the way I bid jobs so most of the time I was home every day. Sometimes I still had to travel, home every weekend and mostly gone no more than 3-4 days,this happened no more than once a month. When we met I traveled a lot because it paid well, and she was well informed of this, and even made statements to me about how well I run my business, and how Im willing to work so hard to support her and the kids. We had an agreement long ago about divison of labor,not crafted by me, her input figured larglely into this, about her being a stay at home mom. I had no problems with this. I made enough to do this. As time passed and one less child at home,she wanted to go back to work. Which meant rearranging how I bid jobs so I would have time for some of the child care/home care stuff. I gladly did this because she is well educated and an educator,and the income she would have would allow me to take that time without having to worry about the money.I also had alot of time with the younger child whom I cherish. I have been into motorcycles most of my life,raced when i was in my 20s, and still ride today, she had had one at one time in her youth as well, she wanted to get back in the saddle so to speak. Unlike most men who might tell her to get on the back of mine, I supported her in this, we got her one. I dont mean some little thing that wouldnt keep up or a scooter. But a real full size bike of her choosing. All I asked was " Hey, its been a long time since you have ridden and never much on the street,take the MSF course. I will take it with you" I took it,the advance course, the race course and hold an AMA liscense,but took the beginner course with her to be a part of this new chapter of her life with her. I caught grief from some men about her riding on her own bike, but always defended her choice, now this is much more accepted, even in just a few short years. When one of her older sons neede a job, I had some contacts in the industry and knew one that might hire him. Called him up talked a bit, he said he would put him to work. Next day after his mom talked to him about how I had sorta called in a favor for him, and not to screw around on this, I took him to meet these people. He talked to them about the job an said he wanted it. I gave him a couple hundred dollars, enough to get home, wrap up his stuff there and come back here. He calls his mom the next day saying I dont think I want that job. I have no more favors with that company. I dont want to sound like Im whining, because Im really not. I know exactly who failed here. ME. But Ive been down this road a little with her and all Im asking for is that if I offer to do this, which I have, and will. Just be willing to tell me you want it too.

[Ronni_W]

But Ive been down this road a little with her and all Im asking for is that if I offer to do this, which I have, and will. Just be willing to tell me you want it too.

Tractor,

Sorry if I'm missing it, but I don't get what is "this road" that you've "been down" with her(?) The current road, unless I'm misinterpreting, is about her overcoming hurt and betrayal, and finding forgiveness -- I'm not seeing where she's had to do that (about you) in the past.

 

Apart from that. Isn't one of the challenges (for her) that she's still trying to figure out if she does want it; if she can forgive you for having the affair?

In which case, asking her to confirm something for you even though you know that she does not yet have her own answer and therefore cannot confirm for you what you want confirmed is...well, it's nonsensical, isn't it? Unreasonable, unrealistic. Daft, even.

 

Even if she knew her answer, you're still asking for a lot from her. You're still putting it all on her and not being willing to do anything unless and until she first tells you what you want to hear. You're saying (even if not out loud), "I'll do this but first I need you to say that."

 

To me, that's both needy and conditional, and it doesn't support your cause. It's not an "offer" and it's not a promise. It doesn't tell her anything that she doesn't already know, and it does nothing to put her mind at ease.

 

---

 

I didn't get from your other thread if you're planning to stay as the co-parent in the younger child's life even if things don't work out with your ex. Especially if that is your plan, then you make the move of your own free will, WITHOUT wanting/needing anything at all from your ex. You do it and hope like hell that your action will help her decide in your favour. You do it EVEN THOUGH you know there is absolutely no guarantee that things will turn out in your favour.

 

At least. In your position, that's what I'd be seriously considering...especially if I'm in any case already self-committed to being the best possible co-parent for that child.

[Tractor]

The current road you are absolutely correct about. I do understand that if I want this to work and/or be a part of the childs life I have to make the first move. I have no problems with that, or grasping your point of view of me beeing needy or conditional. The needy part may be being misinterpeted, a longing for what used to be, a sincere desire for this to work out,the emotional state she and I find ourselves in, and an inability to completely forgive myelf for tearing family apart. The conditional part I try very hard not to do,I know it wont help me achive my ultimate goal.

 

I guess in my last post I should have stated it more clearly instead of giving examples. We haved lived in three different places in six years. Primarily of her choosing, the first was too rural, the second was too much in the city, no place for a garden,no room for the kid to play,the third was a little of both, seemingly the perfect spot. Afterwards when the new wore off, it was just "where we had to live to be near your work". The first,I lived there when we met, and no other woman had been there before her. The second two she chose. I had GFs but no woman had ever "lived" in that house.

 

The child has been in five schools in the same time period. Some because of moves. Some because she(mom) didnt like what they were teaching,didnt get along with school staff,the princapal is a lesbian and thats not the influence I want. I know being an educator herself she has an insight in this I dont have. She also has a negative veiw of the system that I dont have. I went to public school all my life in mostly abject poverty. I ended up with an engineering degree and my own business. My brother and sister both have several advanced degrees. Way more education than me. I know schools have changed in 25-30 years since Ive been there.

 

She grew up in wealth and privledge,from what i have learned her home life wasnt that happy, but everything was handed to her. Mabey I have done the same thing in trying to make her life easy, and given her what she wanted without too much fuss. I feel like she will end unhappy there(geography wise) or at odds that school system as well once the new wears off.

 

Do you really think Im being unreasonable? I have already started to empty the house I dont live in to get it ready for sale. I have begun on my journey. If Im seeing this totally upside down, I am willing to change my view. Is the one request really too much to ask?

[Ronni_W]

Thanks for the additional info. How I'm reading it now is that your concerns are also (or mostly?) around whether or not she will STAY happy and content in the area where she is, or will you make the move only to have to make another move whenever she decides that the grass is going to be greener someplace else.

 

Of course, though, that is ALSO something that she has no way of knowing at this time. As but one example, she has no idea if or when the school will hire a new principal and what that person's sexual orientation will be.

So, yes, asking her for some idea of how she's going to feel about this area in 6, 12 and 36 months' time IS unreasonable. It's not even "too much to ask"...it's just nonsensical to ask it -- there's no apparent thought or logic underlying your request.

 

The thing is. Despite what you may currently believe about it, you are not responsible for her happiness and contentment, and it is not your inadequacy, lack or failure when circumstances and situations do not measure up to her standard/approval/expectation. Your conscious or unconscious desire/need/goal to make her life as easy as possible, as if she is as helpless and powerless as a child, is...well, it's NOT noble and it does not serve her self-awareness, learning or growth.

 

(At some point, she will have to learn that she can't just keep running away from whatever demons are chasing her. At some point, she's going to have to stop, turn around and challenge them to a dual. She will win...but she's got to stop running before she can prove her strength to herself. By running WITH her, you're actually blocking/limiting her opportunities to find this strength within herself. Something like that, in a nutshell.)

 

In any case, you do not have the power to ensure that every single circumstance and situation will always live up to her every expectation or meet her standard/approval -- you can twist yourself into a pretzel, act like the biggest doormat, and try to be as "nice" and agreeable and generous as possible, you STILL won't have the power to "keep her" happy and content.

 

Wanting to control every important and trivial aspect that will impact how she feels about things, and expecting that you can or "should be able to" do that is just you setting yourself up for low self-esteem issues; for self-induced feelings of inadequacy, lack and failure.

an inability to completely forgive myelf for tearing family apart. The conditional part I try very hard not to do,

I get that you don't intend to give of yourself conditionally, but you're doing it nonetheless. The challenge is becoming and staying aware of when and how we're subjecting our loved ones to our conditions and demands.

 

Self-forgiveness requires an honest, accurate and complete accounting of our "sins" because, if we don't know for what all we need forgiveness, then all the bits and pieces will not receive our forgiveness.

 

For example, you mentioned that you don't owe the adult child an apology. Maybe not out loud...but you DID hurt that child's mom and, in so doing, hurt that child as well. Additionally, there is now tension (though nothing too serious) between them, on account of the fall-out of your affair.

So, even if you never speak to the adult child again, your own psyche still knows that it did "trespass against" that child and it still needs (you still need) forgiveness for what you did. You need it, and you deserve it. But you gotta "name it and claim it" before you can give yourself forgiveness (in this example, for having hurt the adult child and caused tension between them.)

 

I feel like she will end unhappy there(geography wise) or at odds that school system as well once the new wears off.

That's not a feeling, it is an assumption. I get that you're basing it on an established pattern, and of course it may prove to be accurate. But, in the present moment, it is nothing more than your assumption and you have NO IDEA AT ALL what the actual outcome is going to be. Neither does she. There are too many variables that are completely out of either of your controls.

 

All that IS within your own power and control is to decide how you are going to handle your side of things if/when she next feels the need to go in search of greener pastures.

 

You do not HAVE to just give in to her every whim, desire or demand. You DO have other choices. It's almost as if you're wanting control over and taking responsibility for things outside of your dominion, and not at all bothering to take care of the things that do fall under your power, control and authority, and for which you are appropriately and legitimately responsible.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Ronni_W
clarification