twisted&alone Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Try to keep this short: Married 13 years at the end of this month. I left three years into our marriage; not sure he ever forgave me for that since I went back to a bad previous relationship. We got back together. Two and half years ago he left; our fighting had gotten out of hand. Six weeks ago he left again...he had not touched me in two years (since the third miscarriage); He is almost 46 and has suffered recently with some health issues...I never felt he ever put me first; it was always a constant fight over his now 21 year old daughter...she is an awesome kid, but it was things like...what's it matter if her shoes in the middle of the floor - you say something...or why do you care if she uses our bathroom...when she has her own upstairs...I'd come home from a week of work out of town to find dirty shorts and panties...anyway, we were bickering like crazy over little things, not talking, or spending time together. He took a big disappointment at work and withdrew more. Our sex life was so off and on and during an off period four years ago I cheated with a co-worker (slept with him twice); but eight months ago my ex co-worker started messaging me and it had been two years so I had internet "sex" with him...well my BS found that during the time of our last fight...two months ago he found it (hacked my computer)...didn't say a word until he left - he packed and found a place during his "I need to think about our life" (two weeks to think)...he doesn't respond to much and I'm doing my best to not bother him at all; I arrived home to a picture of us with a note about how sorry he was to not be the husband he wanted to be for me and how he hopes I find peace and joy on our kitchen island; a personalized t-shirt from a big family trip hanging in our bedroom doorway; and a personalized canvas art picture with our names on it sitting in the middle of our bed. He says he wants me to know he is not angry; he has no fight left and our relationship is over...who knows what will happen in the future and if we are meant to be we will find our way back but divorce is the path..."when can I come get the rest of my stuff." he has already opened his own checking; but has not forwarded his mail. He talks about how turned on my "internet" debut was for him but didn't touch me when I laid next to him. Told me at our "talk of where we are going from here" (talk to determine if attorneys were needed not of reconciliation) I looked DYNOMITE had a body of a model...but only says I never stopped loving you...stay safe...take a break from work...but never I love you...I still love you...I asked about counseling more than once...he still says no...I will text once every other day or so with a "just saying hi" or "hope you have a good day" and 99.9% of the time he does not respond. The couple times I've seen him in the last six weeks I've received a one arm hug with a little pat...he talks about his daughters son as our grandson but didn't mention meeting me so I could see him till I agreed to sign off on his retirement...I am so confused and don't know what or if there is anything I can do? or should do? I love the man; always have...just didn't know how to live with him and wouldn't let myself just "be" ... always had to nick pick...please what is he thinking? some actions seem like hes cutting it all; it's what he has told his family, but other actions seem like he still not sure...what should I do? please any and all help!!I know I messed up bad I know I have fault and I know some is his, but how do I go this route when my heart is so torn
wrencn Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 You are going to have to let him go and move on with your life. He is so hurt and confused right now, you don't want to bully him or manipulate him into staying because it will only blow up in your face. I understand you feel awful for your affair which is why you are forgetting everything that lead up to you cheating on him. You are so guilt stricken you are forgetting how unhappy you were and you are now putting him on a pedestal. If he took you back those issues would still be there. Of course I'm not saying it was right to cheat but you need to step back and look at what lead up to your infidelity. Fix it, on your own. Fix yourself. Your husband needs to be on his own so he can get his confidence back. He may be angry now, but trust me, the anger is coming. I know it is tough and it isn't what you want to hear- I am sorry but you're going to have to let him go but you don't have to give up hope. You never know what the future will hold.
Author twisted&alone Posted August 12, 2010 Author Posted August 12, 2010 You are so guilt stricken you are forgetting how unhappy you were and you are now putting him on a pedestal. You are right in many ways. When he left two and half years ago I turned myself inside out...I had a lot of changing I needed to do. I did, but I've learned there is a difference between being alone and lonely and that lonely came calling eight months ago; I am not proud of the messenger thing which allowed the internet sex, but four months ago I turned an in person down because I knew I was falling back and didn't want to; wanted my marriage....if we are hitting the D what's up with leaving the stuff around the house like that? and the rest of the stuff referenced above? I'm letting go and proud of how well I'm doing, but does he love me still or is it just something he is saying? does it mean anything that he has done some of the finalization items but not others? I'm supposed to get to see "our" grandson today; first time in 7 weeks...he had him call me last night (he's 2 and half)...I was shocked, but after toddler talk for a minute he immediately end the call. I'm more confused now and find it harder to accept than I did...
wrencn Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Oh my husband did the same. I think most husbands that move out try to leave something behind. My husband also didn't have his mail forwarded like I told him too so I'm going to the post office today to take care of that. Of course he loves you- you can't just turn it off, but he's sad and confused and a million other emotions. I bet he doesn't even know why he does some of the things he does. I've been reading into little things my husband has been doing but there is no way for us to know what they are thinking, and we will only drive ourselves insane trying to figure it out. Easier said than done, I know. It's going to be tough but move forward with you life without him. Plan on the fact that you will be getting a divorce. It seems like things only work out when you least expect them to. Oh and allow yourself plenty of time. I'm sitting her sad and confused because I was doing so well but now I've hit a low point. I got way to confident and didn't realize all the hurt and sadness is going to be mixed with days of happiness and elation. Divorce sucks!
Author twisted&alone Posted August 12, 2010 Author Posted August 12, 2010 Divorce sucks! You are so more than right...again!! Its like a death either way you look at it: "love doesn't end even in death" and in the divorce instance that is the worst thing!! I'm sorry the low point came...you seem strong and one the right path to get through it but I am here!! I'm fighting the low for the third day...at some point it has to give
habs53 Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Try to keep this short: Married 13 years at the end of this month. I left three years into our marriage; not sure he ever forgave me for that since I went back to a bad previous relationship. We got back together. Two and half years ago he left; our fighting had gotten out of hand. Six weeks ago he left again...he had not touched me in two years (since the third miscarriage); He is almost 46 and has suffered recently with some health issues...I never felt he ever put me first; it was always a constant fight over his now 21 year old daughter...she is an awesome kid, but it was things like...what's it matter if her shoes in the middle of the floor - you say something...or why do you care if she uses our bathroom...when she has her own upstairs...I'd come home from a week of work out of town to find dirty shorts and panties...anyway, we were bickering like crazy over little things, not talking, or spending time together. He took a big disappointment at work and withdrew more. Our sex life was so off and on and during an off period four years ago I cheated with a co-worker (slept with him twice); but eight months ago my ex co-worker started messaging me and it had been two years so I had internet "sex" with him...well my BS found that during the time of our last fight...two months ago he found it (hacked my computer)...didn't say a word until he left - he packed and found a place during his "I need to think about our life" (two weeks to think)...he doesn't respond to much and I'm doing my best to not bother him at all; I arrived home to a picture of us with a note about how sorry he was to not be the husband he wanted to be for me and how he hopes I find peace and joy on our kitchen island; a personalized t-shirt from a big family trip hanging in our bedroom doorway; and a personalized canvas art picture with our names on it sitting in the middle of our bed. He says he wants me to know he is not angry; he has no fight left and our relationship is over...who knows what will happen in the future and if we are meant to be we will find our way back but divorce is the path..."when can I come get the rest of my stuff." he has already opened his own checking; but has not forwarded his mail. He talks about how turned on my "internet" debut was for him but didn't touch me when I laid next to him. Told me at our "talk of where we are going from here" (talk to determine if attorneys were needed not of reconciliation) I looked DYNOMITE had a body of a model...but only says I never stopped loving you...stay safe...take a break from work...but never I love you...I still love you...I asked about counseling more than once...he still says no...I will text once every other day or so with a "just saying hi" or "hope you have a good day" and 99.9% of the time he does not respond. The couple times I've seen him in the last six weeks I've received a one arm hug with a little pat...he talks about his daughters son as our grandson but didn't mention meeting me so I could see him till I agreed to sign off on his retirement...I am so confused and don't know what or if there is anything I can do? or should do? I love the man; always have...just didn't know how to live with him and wouldn't let myself just "be" ... always had to nick pick...please what is he thinking? some actions seem like hes cutting it all; it's what he has told his family, but other actions seem like he still not sure...what should I do? please any and all help!!I know I messed up bad I know I have fault and I know some is his, but how do I go this route when my heart is so torn I feel bad for you. If you cheated on him, you 2 are done. Men do not get over this. He may still love you to a degree, but the trust is gone. Men get hurt very badly and he may forgive you to a degree, but never forget. I would suggest moving on with your life. Work on your insecurities, thats what hurt your marriage.
Author twisted&alone Posted August 12, 2010 Author Posted August 12, 2010 I feel bad for you. If you cheated on him, you 2 are done. Men do not get over this. He may still love you to a degree, but the trust is gone. Men get hurt very badly and he may forgive you to a degree, but never forget. I would suggest moving on with your life. Work on your insecurities, thats what hurt your marriage. That's a little tough...I realize the trust is gone right now...he wanted forgiveness when he cheated on his first wife...you know what I hope you are wrong, but if it is it is and if he doesn't there is nothing I can do...this is driving me crazy and going to steadily have me a basket case if I don't get control of the up and downs. I'm sorry I know I screwed up and maybe buts are wrong but don't the surrounding circumstances ever make a difference with men ...
What_Next Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Well you cheated on him physically the first time, the you re-connected with the OM again. I couldn't quite read whether or not he found out about the first PA (a little advice, try using paragraphs it makes thread much easier to read). If he doesn't know about the PA are you going to tell him? If he doesn't know you slept with the OM twice and you continue to withhold this, then your marriage is a sham anyway. What are you doing to rebuild trust? That is the only thing you need worry about at this point, without trust there is NOTHING. Take it from personal experience, my marriage lacks trust and you know what, it is the single biggest factor that will likely destroy it.
Author twisted&alone Posted August 12, 2010 Author Posted August 12, 2010 Well you cheated on him physically the first time, the you re-connected with the OM again. I couldn't quite read whether or not he found out about the first PA (a little advice, try using paragraphs it makes thread much easier to read). If he doesn't know about the PA are you going to tell him? If he doesn't know you slept with the OM twice and you continue to withhold this, then your marriage is a sham anyway. What are you doing to rebuild trust? That is the only thing you need worry about at this point, without trust there is NOTHING. First thanks for the writing style tip! Yes, he knows I slept with the OM twice I told him... As far as rebuilding trust...he asked me to give him space not to bother him so that is what I do; I've limited contacting him other than checking after a drs appt the other day and two days later. Sometimes when he calls he sounds like I'm the worst person in the world, other times like he is; other times like nothing has changed except he has not spoken about love since our "meeting to decide where we were going" which he clearly spoke the "its over. this relationship. there is no fixing it. I don't know who I am. I need to be me again. I have to find me. If it's true love you know what they say about letting that person go." So, that's what I'm trying to do to rebuild the trust, but it's so few and far between. I don't know what to do...but hes adamant that love me or not we must divorce to end this relationship. The future is anyone's guess....yet he hasn't followed through on all the ending items...just some of them. I am meeting him and "our" grandson today at the park ... so I'm going to focus on that little boy and do my best to not look like the lost sheep I feel like. By being that way though will it make him think I'm not interested in him? He asked for the phone number of the OM although it ended as quickly as it started years go b/c he said he was going to call him...his first act of being "him" again...he hasn't made that call and I have no doubt the OM would be wetting his britches and would use it to reach out to me since I've been shutting him down severely for the last 4 years...stupid, stupid but I deserve it and I'm not shying away from my responsibility...just not sure what to do and hoping for some guidance/suggestions. I know I deserve some lashing so please don't think I don't realize that I'm deserving of doubt. Thank you for your time. I hope someday I can help you with yours...
wrencn Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 180 time. The 180's list This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting: Quote: 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! 2. No frequent phone calls 3. Do not point out good points in marriage 4. Do not follow him around the house 5. Do not encourage talk about the future 6. Do not ask for help from family members 7. Do not ask for reassurances 8. Do not buy gifts 9. Do not schedule dates together 10. Do not spy on spouse 11. Do not say "I Love You" 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) 21. Never lose your cool 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic 23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger) 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil) 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel 34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
wrencn Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Also read this thread- it is really good http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t84894/
habs53 Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 180 time. The 180's list This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting: Quote: 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! 2. No frequent phone calls 3. Do not point out good points in marriage 4. Do not follow him around the house 5. Do not encourage talk about the future 6. Do not ask for help from family members 7. Do not ask for reassurances 8. Do not buy gifts 9. Do not schedule dates together 10. Do not spy on spouse 11. Do not say "I Love You" 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) 21. Never lose your cool 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic 23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger) 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil) 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel 34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes Hey wrench, im not against the 180 on this. I think there has to be some communication as well. She has to restore trust, and maybe limited contact may be better. I would like nothing better than to see couples get back together. Also i did not mean to come on strong and sound negative on my first post. I was just speaking from a mans perspective. All men can focus on is there woman having sex with someone else. Its not good.
wrencn Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Hey wrench, im not against the 180 on this. I think there has to be some communication as well. She has to restore trust, and maybe limited contact may be better. I would like nothing better than to see couples get back together. Also i did not mean to come on strong and sound negative on my first post. I was just speaking from a mans perspective. All men can focus on is there woman having sex with someone else. Its not good. The second link I posted was focused on NC-which may work better for her situation. Side note: I don't think women handle affairs any better than men. Its all the same IMO.
habs53 Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 The second link I posted was focused on NC-which may work better for her situation. Side note: I don't think women handle affairs any better than men. Its all the same IMO. Its a sad situation all the way around. Boy the loss of trust is bad. Im sorry, im sure woman have the same feelings.
tank Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Twisted, hang in there. You need to work on yourself first. Go to LC and get yourself figured out. Discover what you truley want in life. A little separation isnt always a bad thing, especially if you take the time to fix your problems. Your husband still has feelings for you. Hopefully he is taking the steps to work on himself as well. He hasnt shut you out of his life altogether, just not allowing you in like he used to do. Show him you love him and that you are working on yourself. Whats the worst that could happen, he continuews moving on with out you. Thats where you are now. Habs, i agree that men get very bitter and wont ever forget when something like this is done to them, but if we grow out of the experience we can forgive, and the more we turn to forgiveness instead of bitterness the easier our lives will be. If you truley love your spouse then "for good or for bad" this is the baddest part of a marriage, not to many people get through it, but some do. Ive seen it happen with a very good friend of mine, they are 8 yrs after the affair and they are a completely different couple and you see love between them that wasnt there before. Dont ever give up hope, and dont ever become so bitter that you forget about all the good that the marriage did offer.
Author twisted&alone Posted August 12, 2010 Author Posted August 12, 2010 Also i did not mean to come on strong and sound negative on my first post. I was just speaking from a mans perspective. All men can focus on is there woman having sex with someone else. Its not good. Habs, thank you but I understand what you were saying; just hard to come to terms with that is all. The hardest thing is the regret over very little pleasure and the worse is he knew I was not someone to sleep around...so for him he says I couldn't respect him and do what I did and he knows I had to care to "lay down". He hadn't touched me in two years but actually said "you have no idea how many times I ----- off to that video I found of you thinking why didn't she send that to me..." I was floored my straight laced H say something like that... Tank, thank you for the words of encouragement; you are right on many points I do need to work on me and of course the hope is the hardest. I just left a park visit with him and our grandson and that was a humbling experience hearing Paw Paw's instead of Paw Paw's and Nana's...but it was so wonderful to play with him for an hour would have been two if not for the bad weather....he gave me another one of those one arm patting back don't get to close hugs; looked me in the eye said thank you ... but I'm grateful and appreciative. wrencn, thank you so much!! A lot of good advice that I know I will work towards and pray by the minute and second some days to stick to it!
hopesndreams Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 The 180 won't work for you. You need to be totally transparent. You need to feel true remorse and convey that to him by however and whatever means you can. I'm not talking guilt here. Guilt doesn't wash. Remorse. If you are not sure what that is, Google it. If you can't do that he is gone. Even if you can do that, he could still be gone. Then, you will have to accept and let him live his life, without you.
Author twisted&alone Posted August 13, 2010 Author Posted August 13, 2010 The 180 won't work for you. You need to be totally transparent. You need to feel true remorse and convey that to him by however and whatever means you can. I'm not talking guilt here. Guilt doesn't wash. Remorse. If you are not sure what that is, Google it. Thank you for your advice, but how do I convey transparency when he is not here and we have limited to no contact. I understand, know, and feel the difference between both guilt and remorse. He is emotionally detached, rightfully so...I've been there before as well...I just don't know how to reach him and at this point he is so opposite...there is not the anger or screaming instead I hear the pain of loss, confusion, every now and again anger...but he says his fight is gone...he has none left and that is why this is over. If 180 is not the option...I am at the gate again having no idea what direction to go...
hopesndreams Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Thank you for your advice, but how do I convey transparency when he is not here and we have limited to no contact. I understand, know, and feel the difference between both guilt and remorse. He is emotionally detached, rightfully so...I've been there before as well...I just don't know how to reach him and at this point he is so opposite...there is not the anger or screaming instead I hear the pain of loss, confusion, every now and again anger...but he says his fight is gone...he has none left and that is why this is over. If 180 is not the option...I am at the gate again having no idea what direction to go... Many people don't know the difference between guilt and remorse. It's a protection mechanism so they don't feel the real pain when really looking at themselves and the wrong choices that they made. Accountability. Then you can do what's right. If his fight is gone, let him go. His choice, you need to respect that. He cheated in his 1st marriage so he has first hand experience on what it's like to be a cheat. When he now looks at you, he sees himself, and doesn't like what he sees. Do you think that's a possibility?
Author twisted&alone Posted August 13, 2010 Author Posted August 13, 2010 He cheated in his 1st marriage so he has first hand experience on what it's like to be a cheat. When he now looks at you, he sees himself, and doesn't like what he sees. Do you think that's a possibility? Could be...I really don't know; his affair lasted for years and he left his wife for the OW. I know that he had a huge let down at work - devastated him and he's been real negative and bitter... it really devastated him as he lived for the job (serve and protect) and his baby girl (apple of his eye) got pregnant the senior year, he has had medical issues where before he was always healthy...he gained a lot of weight and had been making negative comments about himself...most would think he was very confident but he always made reference in private to someone looking like me being with him and then that turned into him critiquing my clothes, hair, accusing me of being a flirt, etc...he said "I told you that guy wanted you and to let me handle it...but you said no, you had it under control you could handle him...you did alright...give me his number because I need to be me and this is the first step for me back to being me...him and I are going to have a talk." He hasn't followed that through... He made a comment to me before that when he left his first wife he knew it was over because he didn't even care to look at her...the only thing that has kept me from truly grieving the loss is he still looks at me or I catch him watching (the limited times I've seen him since he left); I know a lot are his own inner demons...maybe mid-life (he will be in couple months 46/I'm 36)...he still refers to my beauty and how great I look...but he does not speak of caring or loving ... I am letting him go; also told him I'd sign off on his retirement since he said if I cared at all about him I would do that for him and since he f-up his career and his marriage/family is now f-up that would be all he had left. I can survive without it ... when I do speak to him as I had to do tonight I always try to end the conversation and thank him and tell him I appreciate him since I know "Words of gratitude" are his main love language...I just sick with myself for allowing my brain to forget that...it's not guilt its true remorse that causes that feeling...I've examined it and know I'm always a work in progress but once again I allowed the brain to rule the heart...so I know I need to work on me harder..
You Go Girl Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 This is really difficult, what I am going to propose for you to do. If you are truly remorseful, and can be monogamous and loyal without failure, then you will prove that. First you will tell him that you are truly remorseful and that you will wait for a chance to be in his heart again, and that you will be alone. Then you will act on that. How will you act on it when he's not in your life? You will be faithful to him without him even being there. How many months or years you can do that is up to you.
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