When they try to reconcile...

[September]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

Edited August 11, 2010 by September
Oops, not sure what happened there, Will try again!

[Gfkr2]

My WW is a 2x cheater. We successfully reconciled after her first A 23 years ago without any detective work or major trust problems. Our situation was unique in that she was involved in a tragic auto accident which almost killed her. Needless to say my focus then was taking care of her broken body and spirit. It worked, at least for me.

 

She, unfortunately, tempted fate by having a second A a few months ago. This time there is NO forgiveness. She and I both knew her taking the forbidden fruit after all we went through would be the end of a LTM. Yet, she did it without shame and is an unrepentant cheater.

 

I am forcing a divorce this time. There is no hope for reconciliation. My trust can never be rebuilt with her as a result of the 1000s of lies that were the foundation of her secret life. Looking back, I do not regret the mostly happy and stable marriage we had. We had many good years which would have never happen had we not reconciled early in our M.

[White Flower]

My WW is a 2x cheater. We successfully reconciled after her first A 23 years ago without any detective work or major trust problems. Our situation was unique in that she was involved in a tragic auto accident which almost killed her. Needless to say my focus then was taking care of her broken body and spirit. It worked, at least for me.

 

She, unfortunately, tempted fate by having a second A a few months ago. This time there is NO forgiveness. She and I both knew her taking the forbidden fruit after all we went through would be the end of a LTM. Yet, she did it without shame and is an unrepentant cheater.

 

I am forcing a divorce this time. There is no hope for reconciliation. My trust can never be rebuilt with her as a result of the 1000s of lies that were the foundation of her secret life. Looking back, I do not regret the mostly happy and stable marriage we had. We had many good years which would have never happen had we not reconciled early in our M.

(((((Gfkr2)))))

 

I did not know your story Gfkr2. No wonder you have such anger in your posts...I can totally understand.

 

I was M for almost 25 years and when I knew our M was over I looked into D but didn't really file until after I met MM. Once it became PA I made it my mission to file because I just couldn't live the lie.

 

And my exH would have NEVER attended to me when I was broken. I was in bed for four months due to a herniated disc and he never once lifted a finger for me. In fact, he left me at home alone with three kids including a 1 year old baby to run after so I had to get help from my 6 year old.

 

Anyway, I feel for you and hope you heal very quickly after D. You deserve a W who will truly appreciate how attentive you are as a H.

 

To the OP, I was betrayed in more ways than one. My exH had a couple of EAs, but the last one almost destroyed me, and DID destroy us. He also had an affair with day-trading. He gambled our retirement and savings away. He was also a gambler/risk-taker on many levels which took its toll on me because, as you stated, I was constantly having to pour over the details of phone use, cc use, 'investments' he made and changed daily, sometimes by the minute, online. I JUST COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH IT ANYMORE. So, I gave up and soon after that MM came along. I fought him off for quite some time but eventually caved in. Not to get off topic, but that's a piece of my story.

 

Bottom line is even though my exH and I had lots of investments, a business, 3 kids, many shared friends, and family ties for over a quarter of a century at some point I decided it was just too much work to commit a lifetime to with all the watching and investigating. The cost outweighed the benefit.

 

And when the cost outweighs the benefit, and we RECOGNIZE that, we finally cut ties.

Edited August 12, 2010 by White Flower

[Gfkr2]

Hi White Flower, I too noted your posts that are always compassionate and respectful of others. You are perceptive to pick up on my anger. No doubt our back to back posts on"sympathy for the OM" tipped you off as to me anger.

 

The wounds of the A are still fresh as my WW betrayed both me and her 17 year old daughter. Ours is a long, complicated story and I earned my angels wings when I was still in my 20s. I eagerly tended to a broken W who couldn't walk or talk. She spent 6 weeks in the hospital and the first 2 comatose. A special bond takes root in a young M when you are feeding her baby food, changing her diapers and helping her Slowly to become a normal person again. This while you friends are out having a fun time being regular M couples. It is a bond so strong and so trusting that NOTHING could ever break it, except she didn't care. She didn't see me being up all night, going to her therapy, talking to her doctors and defending her in court. Yes, she was drunk and going to see her then MM. No questions. I just sucked it about and helped her restore her life....and I was happy.

 

I never asked for anything in return but for love, trust and respect. The recipe was pretty simple really. So, she betrays a love that could never be broken and I am crushed and the anger flows from the volcano, White Flower. I do deserve better and many people have told me the same. Thanks for taking an interest. I appreciate it more than you know!

[September]

Hi White Flower, I too noted your posts that are always compassionate and respectful of others. You are perceptive to pick up on my anger. No doubt our back to back posts on"sympathy for the OM" tipped you off as to me anger.

 

The wounds of the A are still fresh as my WW betrayed both me and her 17 year old daughter. Ours is a long, complicated story and I earned my angels wings when I was still in my 20s. I eagerly tended to a broken W who couldn't walk or talk. She spent 6 weeks in the hospital and the first 2 comatose. A special bond takes root in a young M when you are feeding her baby food, changing her diapers and helping her Slowly to become a normal person again. This while you friends are out having a fun time being regular M couples. It is a bond so strong and so trusting that NOTHING could ever break it, except she didn't care. She didn't see me being up all night, going to her therapy, talking to her doctors and defending her in court. Yes, she was drunk and going to see her then MM. No questions. I just sucked it about and helped her restore her life....and I was happy.

 

I never asked for anything in return but for love, trust and respect. The recipe was pretty simple really. So, she betrays a love that could never be broken and I am crushed and the anger flows from the volcano, White Flower. I do deserve better and many people have told me the same. Thanks for taking an interest. I appreciate it more than you know!

 

I can completely understand your hurt, boy you have certainly been put through the mill!

[LucreziaBorgia]

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

 

Some people just aren't willing to give up, and will fight to the end to hold on to something that was once happy for them, and work toward finding a way to have it return to what it once was before the affair.

[Silly_Girl]

Some people just aren't willing to give up, and will fight to the end to hold on to something that was once happy for them, and work toward finding a way to have it return to what it once was before the affair.

 

In the same way the OW/OM put themselves through it, over and over and over. Ultimatums, promises, this time it will be different, this time they'll choose me.

 

Of the two I can better understand and rationalise the potential of a BS flogging a dead horse (perhaps) than an OW. Ironically.

[Myowntwofeet]

I still struggle with the real lack of reconciliation that takes place. There are a few that are great examples but I think there are so many factors.. ( e.g. one affair, short term, exposed or told, one night stand etc). Most, again imo - never heal nor do they "create" a stronger marriage. Damage control for a slew of reasons....again - not all....but most spin the plates hoping for the reconnect until it is simply too much trouble to end it.

 

On the flip of that... I am really learning first hand how hard that is too rebuild.

 

We are in a very honest attempt to rebuild what we so carelessy destroyed (both fully responsible) and while we are NOT physical - we know we have to find a way to move forward together or a part ... otherwise we will haunt each other for the rest of our lives.

 

It is HARD work. We have both hurt each other...both been sideswiped by the other and let me tell you ... If we didn't love each other... it would not be possible.

 

We have no idea where this will lead.. .and while many said it would land us right back in bed... We were more, it was more and the pain we have caused each other is real... the anger is real and it is fricken hard.

 

I could not imagine being the BS, I really couldn't and I do have a different view on the commitment it takes.

[pureinheart]

My WW is a 2x cheater. We successfully reconciled after her first A 23 years ago without any detective work or major trust problems. Our situation was unique in that she was involved in a tragic auto accident which almost killed her. Needless to say my focus then was taking care of her broken body and spirit. It worked, at least for me.

 

She, unfortunately, tempted fate by having a second A a few months ago. This time there is NO forgiveness. She and I both knew her taking the forbidden fruit after all we went through would be the end of a LTM. Yet, she did it without shame and is an unrepentant cheater.

 

I am forcing a divorce this time. There is no hope for reconciliation. My trust can never be rebuilt with her as a result of the 1000s of lies that were the foundation of her secret life. Looking back, I do not regret the mostly happy and stable marriage we had. We had many good years which would have never happen had we not reconciled early in our M.

 

(((((Gfkr2)))))

 

I did not know your story Gfkr2. No wonder you have such anger in your posts...I can totally understand.

 

I was M for almost 25 years and when I knew our M was over I looked into D but didn't really file until after I met MM. Once it became PA I made it my mission to file because I just couldn't live the lie.

 

And my exH would have NEVER attended to me when I was broken. I was in bed for four months due to a herniated disc and he never once lifted a finger for me. In fact, he left me at home alone with three kids including a 1 year old baby to run after so I had to get help from my 6 year old.

 

Anyway, I feel for you and hope you heal very quickly after D. You deserve a W who will truly appreciate how attentive you are as a H.

 

To the OP, I was betrayed in more ways than one. My exH had a couple of EAs, but the last one almost destroyed me, and DID destroy us. He also had an affair with day-trading. He gambled our retirement and savings away. He was also a gambler/risk-taker on many levels which took its toll on me because, as you stated, I was constantly having to pour over the details of phone use, cc use, 'investments' he made and changed daily, sometimes by the minute, online. I JUST COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH IT ANYMORE. So, I gave up and soon after that MM came along. I fought him off for quite some time but eventually caved in. Not to get off topic, but that's a piece of my story.

 

Bottom line is even though my exH and I had lots of investments, a business, 3 kids, many shared friends, and family ties for over a quarter of a century at some point I decided it was just too much work to commit a lifetime to with all the watching and investigating. The cost outweighed the benefit.

 

And when the cost outweighs the benefit, and we RECOGNIZE that, we finally cut ties.

 

 

(((((((((Hugs)))))))) for both of you...I am totally disgusted at what you both went through...especially you WF.

 

G, I have been the caregiver for H's in the past and they screwed me over, but it wasn't as bad as being in WF's place (which I was) and live the humiliation of an uncaring H (*******.....just keep going with the curse words). I will shut up now because I'm too pissed and will just (********......).

 

I am so sorry you two:mad:

[pureinheart]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

 

 

I would say fear... fear of the unknown, fear of the possibility of being alone. Also it's safe, and in some cases has become a safe game that keeps the interest of both parties, lest one would leave if it weren't acceptable for both. It becomes an obsession in all cases.

 

In some cases the detective work must take place, although extremely unhealthy...if it doesn't, every insecurity must be exposed and that is just too painful for most, as this loss of control of the other party is just too much. There is a desire to go back to the way things were, and regain the lost control.

Edited August 12, 2010 by pureinheart

[torranceshipman]

I think that the destruction waged on the M, as a result of an A, means that there is a heck of a lot of damage to clear. That can be nothing but painful in the early days of reconciliation.

 

Here is an analogy: think of clearing up your home after your naughty teenagers had the mother of all parties in your house the night before-paint on the walls, stuff broken, crap everywhere, cigarette burns on the tablecloths, stuff stolen, general mayhem that takes God knows how long to fix! Take a look at the clean up effort and you'd say....misery. But better to clean up to eventually get your beautiful house back, than just move out to live in another house.

 

And imagine the remorse your kids would feel during that massive clean up effort...at the time the party probably felt worth it, but it got too out of control, and they lost their lovely bedroom and their safe family home which takes 100 times longer to clean that it did to mess up!

 

I guess this is sometimes that AP's don't see - so much history and love, and a willingness to try to fix a great deal, even if it is very painful - even if moving out to a new house might be the easiest choice. Maybe the clean up wouldn't work but I am sure so many are motivated to really, really work hard to try to get it back.

[TOWinNYC]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

 

I would also like to add that there are some M's that NEVER fully recover after an A.

 

Sure, they put on a happy face and send out X-mas cards and go on vacations etc. All the things a "family" is supposed to do and on the surface everything looks fine.

 

But the M itself? It's questionable. There's always something brewing under the surface.

 

My former BFF is a BS - and when I became involved in the "love affair of my life" it felt like she couldn't stand to see my happiness and took out all her latent anger regarding her H's A on me. Apparently my happiness "triggered" something within her. But it was TEN YEARS AFTER THE FACT.

 

Needless to say, we're no longer friends.

 

But in this particular case, I think she stayed because he's all she's ever known (since she was a teenager). And during their reconciliation phase she ended up with two more kids.

[September]

I would also like to add that there are some M's that NEVER fully recover after an A.

 

Sure, they put on a happy face and send out X-mas cards and go on vacations etc. All the things a "family" is supposed to do and on the surface everything looks fine.

 

 

Interesting you should say the above TOW. I am pretty sure that my xMM and his wife have brushed everything under the mat and pretend that his 2 year EA/PA relationship with me didn't exist. They both like to keep up with "appearances". For me, I would prefer to get it all out and talk about it..

[seren]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

Personally, I never played detective to find out about the A, most of us BS, just want to understand what the attraction of the A was, what was found outside the marriage that couldn't be found in it. It means we can have truth and decide our futures based on a level playing field. never, ever checked e mails, phone or whereabouts. If I didn't think I could trust H, I would never have considered staying.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My H doesn't have to make up for the A, nothing he could do could take away the hurt of it all, but it's in the past, we are more concerned about our future. You might be surprised how little the actual A is talked about, after D Day it is the marriage and the future that is the focus. I forgive H, did so very early on as once I had the truth I could make sense of it, and no, no surveillance.

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

 

My marriage is not a misery, certainly not emotionally exhausting. in fact it is better now than ever, despite the A. Most of us put ourselves through it because we love our husbands and they show that they love us. No rose coloured glasses here, it just is what it is. Bloody marvellous!!

 

Sorry cannot work out how to bold using my new Mac.

Edited August 12, 2010 by seren
Added

[HappyAtLast]

It seems to me that the above phase (the checking, rehashing, etc) is necessary for a certain point amount of time. For obvious reasons, that amount is variable depending up on the couple.

 

Most likely, what you are observing on whatever site you are reading are folks who have had more recent experience with infidelity.

 

If two spouses believe that their marriage is worth saving, they go through the above phase. Once the healing process is well underway, the checking and rehashing begin to lessen in frequency.

 

Those whose marriages remain in the above stage generally divorce eventually, I believe.

 

I think you are just observing a certain point in time, rather than the bigger picture.

[CrayonAngel]

It happens when in an A is brought into the equation...no matter BS or OW/OM most of the time whoever the cheater ends up with is always looking over their shoulder. My In laws went through an affair years ago..a bad one from what I hear... She doesn't check his phone or send out the cia when he stays at the lake house for the weekend... She genuinely trusts and loves him. He does the same for her. They are very affectionate with eachother..and my H says things are better now since the A happened. They have more communication and appreciation for eachother. It's not always the way you see it on the internet. Those people are there for a reason..hurting or not.

[silktricks]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

For the 1st couple of years, much of this is probably true - and for some people it may be true, period. Unlikely, though as a relationship such is you describe is not worth being in forever. One of them will eventually throw in the towel. But for anywhere from 2 to 4 years is pretty normal for recovery time, and during those 2 to 4 years, yes, a lot of questions will be asked, a lot of scrutiny will take place. If the fWS can't take it, then they shouldn't have attempted the recovery. They destroyed the trust of their spouse, and confidence and trust take a long time to rebuild. Usually longer to rebuild than to build in the first place.

 

However, trust can be rebuilt. Love really can conquer all and forgive all.

 

OW often write here that the marriage will never be the same after an affair, and I don't understand why they would think that either the fBS or the fWS would want it to be the same. If it's the same that it was pre-affair, that is not a good thing. That is what led to the affair. The marriage must be better than it was, otherwise it's just another problem hurtling down the road towards you.

 

We are 6 years post D-Day. Our marriage is better than good. It's excellent. I don't question my husband, and haven't for years. I trust him and he trusts me. We love each other. What happened in the past was sad, but it's past. No one is perfect, not him and not me. But together we get closer to perfect.

[2sure]

Marriages that are healthy, including those that have chosen to reconcile after a major crisis like infidelity...often have more openness and transparency than other marriages. Transparency doesnt hurt a marriage but privacy certainly can. Transparency does not equal lack of respect, it equals both partners working to make a rock solid relationship. That includes questions, there is nothing wrong with that. The ability and comfort level to ask questions , answer them, account for yourself and be able to verify is a process that if completed...rebuilds trust and creates a comfort level with honesty that not many of us achieve.

 

Dont mistake the transparency, the demand for openness and honesty after infidelity for the same detective work or snooping that goes on before D-Day. The first can kill a marriage, the second can save it.

 

A marriage can be better after infidelity, but its a long process. But SO is life, like our lives marriages are in constant evolution. The crisis that come into each of our relationships are part of the building blocks for a strong foundation.

 

But yeah, I got a divorce.

[OWoman]

It happens when in an A is brought into the equation...no matter BS or OW/OM most of the time whoever the cheater ends up with is always looking over their shoulder.

 

I think that is the case where the issue/s that led to the "cheating" have not been addressed, and resolved. I certainly do not check up on my H - if I thought I needed to check up on him, I wouldn't want to be with him. And, likewise, he doesn't check up on me. We both know that the possibility of "cheating" exists - we've lived through that - but we also know that it's less likely if we take good care of the R and of each other, and if we keep up those good R habits we developed from the outset which led to our learning to love each other and wanting to be together.

 

OW often write here that the marriage will never be the same after an affair, and I don't understand why they would think that either the fBS or the fWS would want it to be the same. If it's the same that it was pre-affair, that is not a good thing. That is what led to the affair. The marriage must be better than it was, otherwise it's just another problem hurtling down the road towards you.

 

Absolutely!

 

And I think that is true of whichever R the WS chooses to be in post-A - if it's to be sustainable, it needs to learn the hard lessons of the A, and build on the hard work the WS put in in resolving the issues that led to them engaging in an A (and any issues that the other person - BS or AP - brings with them).

[OWoman]

Dont mistake the transparency, the demand for openness and honesty after infidelity for the same detective work or snooping that goes on before D-Day.

 

Dunno. If you have to demand openness and honesty then I don't think that's much different from feeling you need to snoop. I couldn't live like that .

 

We communicate openly spontaneously because we WANT to share our lives, our thoughts, our feelings and experiences with each other. That doesn't mean we don't have some "me" space to ourselves - we also respect each other's need for downtime - but it does mean we do know what is going on with each other and where the other is "at" at any given moment. Without the other having to pry, demand or snoop.

[2sure]

Nope. Rebuilding trust in a marriage that has been betrayed by infidelity is just a little more involved than that. But its worth it because after the transparency and honesty becomes comfortable and second nature I think these same relationships can move on to true security and trust. But for either a BS or WS to just say ok, lets go back to the way we were communicating before - just sharing what we want - those are the marriages that simply continue to suffer.

[seren]

I think that is the case where the issue/s that led to the "cheating" have not been addressed, and resolved. I certainly do not check up on my H - if I thought I needed to check up on him, I wouldn't want to be with him. And, likewise, he doesn't check up on me. We both know that the possibility of "cheating" exists - we've lived through that - but we also know that it's less likely if we take good care of the R and of each other, and if we keep up those good R habits we developed from the outset which led to our learning to love each other and wanting to be together.

 

 

 

Absolutely!

 

And I think that is true of whichever R the WS chooses to be in post-A - if it's to be sustainable, it needs to learn the hard lessons of the A, and build on the hard work the WS put in in resolving the issues that led to them engaging in an A (and any issues that the other person - BS or AP - brings with them).

 

 

So agree with this, who the hell would want the old marriage, to reconcile all parties have to look at what went wrong in the marriage and take steps to ensure that problems are addressed. I honestly wish we had made the changes we have since D Day, before the A, but hindsight is just a kick in the a*** sometimes.

[stillafool]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

 

I have to agree. I think it is just best to move on than to have to live under surveillance for the rest of your life. I can understand the BS's point in requesting those actions; but who wants to live like that. I certainly wouldn't want to "police" a person to make them do right.

[OWoman]

Nope. Rebuilding trust in a marriage that has been betrayed by infidelity is just a little more involved than that. But its worth it because after the transparency and honesty becomes comfortable and second nature I think these same relationships can move on to true security and trust. But for either a BS or WS to just say ok, lets go back to the way we were communicating before - just sharing what we want - those are the marriages that simply continue to suffer.

 

I guess the difference between Rs where communication, openness and transparency are spontaneous and those where betrayal happens is that in the latter, at some point the desire to communicate spontaneously gets unlearned - possibly because a message of uninterest is received (whether intended or not). "Just sharing what we want" is very different to "sharing, because we want", and I guess those couples who only communicate "what they want" learn that some things are not for sharing

[Owl]

I guess the difference between Rs where communication, openness and transparency are spontaneous and those where betrayal happens is that in the latter, at some point the desire to communicate spontaneously gets unlearned - possibly because a message of uninterest is received (whether intended or not). "Just sharing what we want" is very different to "sharing, because we want", and I guess those couples who only communicate "what they want" learn that some things are not for sharing

 

Or one person creates a pattern of "sharing what they want to" at some point so that they can engage in behavior that needs to be concealed from their spouse.

 

In order for an affair to happen, one person has to create some seperation between them and their spouse.

 

Often people don't recognize the need for some 'distance' as the foundation for infidelity and instead go with this new "need for space" out of respect for their spouse.

 

The "demand for openness" as part of reconciliation just flat makes sense if you've ever been through it.

 

The need to VERIFY that this person is being honest with you NOW, when they weren't during the affair is tremendous. It's REQUIRED if you're going to be able to rebuild that trust in them.

 

It doesn't make the marriage a failure, or the BS who requires it pathetic.

 

And it typically does diminish over time, as the trust is rebuilt. This I've seen clearly in my own recovery.