In_Repair Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 The origination of the law was based more on the views of ownership. As times evolved so did perceptions and what is acceptable. But as many obsolete and archaic laws remain on the books, so did this one. The affairs don't have bearing on the divorce proceedings because people have realized over time that an affair is not what destroyed the marriage in the first place. True, the affair usually isn't the real problem in the marriage. It's really not a true indicator of anything regarding the marriage, it simply shows a character flaw in one of the married people. When walking away from a marriage is such an easy thing to do these days, it takes some really twisted and selfish logic to rationalize staying in one and having an affair, where the script is to hide behind your obligations to the marriage while you decide if you really like the AP enough to give up your life for them. All of that aside, I wasn't trying to say that it was YOUR opinionated claim. It is an old argument here, and while the reasons given in other states might be different, I haven't seen that claim supported in regards to CC law anywhere except as an opinion and assumption. I have never taken the time to study or inquire about AOA laws. The CC laws are basically there just to help keep the wolves at bay during the mandatory one year separation period... or at least that is the most logical explanation I have heard.
pureinheart Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Damn straight because this is a celebrity with financial issues already. It isn't about the money or notoriety, but when you get sex tapes and pics of your spouse with someone else....you could be a little pissed and want someone's head on a platter. But who will ever really know? I didn't read any further in the thread...so maybe this was answered. Who sent the sex tapes? In bold, there could be other lawsuits that we don't hear about, although due to low profile they never make to the headlines. Yes I understand this lady being pissed, hurt, etc., I was too, although didn't want to sue anyone and felt anything less that leaving would be counter-productive to my own sanity...of course I am much different than some...my attitude was/is, screw you, I'll do it myself and did and don't want anything.
Mimolicious Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Fantasia Barrino is a "Z" list celebrity in America who won of the third season of the television series American Idol in 2004. Since winning she's disappeared into relative obscurity. AOA = "Alienation of Affection" - Alienation of Affection is a lawsuit that can be filed against a third party for interfering with your marital relationship and alienating your feelings from your spouse. CC = I dunno what that means. Just because an artist is not on the charts, that doesn't mean they have disappeared into obscurity. 8 Grammy nominations, Platinum album, Started in the B'way musical "Color of Purple" and casted for the remake of the movie version. Lifetime movie of her own life. VH1 reality show "Fantasia for real". New album coming out end of the month. Not much obscure there, uh? Let's get it together...
Mimolicious Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I just don't feel that we should be able to sue just because of a broken heart. This society is already sue happy enough as it is. Just divorce the guy and move on. She might have taken advantage of a situation but she did create it and if she were not around it would be somebody else. Also this is a bit off topic but how come this case is getting a bunch of coverage but Alicia Keys marrying a married man gets nothing? Thak you! And her friend's H at that!
pureinheart Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 These laws aren't religious based and I have found no real information to back up the opinionated claim that it is a property issue. If the state viewed you as the property of your spouse, why do they allow you to divorce your owner? Stop trying to put a hillbilly slant on it. Sure, the enforcement of such laws is stretching the power of government a bit, but the idea behind it is sound, at least the way I understand it to be in my state. They are there to deter anyone from interfering in your marriage until a divorce is final. "No fault" does not necessarily mean that it's legal to have affairs, it simply means that your affairs have no bearing on divorce proceedings. Just reading your reply IR....this is quite profound IMO...I am thinking you didn't mean it this way, this is only MY take...k... In order to sue for adultry, this would in fact mean that your S is your property....ewwwww. The courts had to come up with the no fault D....
Mimolicious Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 {slight derail} "Huge?" maybe in America. Not even a blip on the radar EVERYWHERE ELSE in the world. And it's a pretty big planet JoyDevine. No disrespect at all, but it always amazes me how Americans think America is the center of the universe. {end derail} In the constellation of RIAA does matter. Off the topic but Shakira was an international superstar who had sold millions of records yet was not recognized as such till she did a crossover album tracked in the American market BMI, ASCAP, SESCA, RIAA, etc... So to artist like Shakira america is the center of the universe that placed her in Forbes as the 4th highest paid entertainer.
jwi71 Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Just reading your reply IR....this is quite profound IMO...I am thinking you didn't mean it this way, this is only MY take...k... In order to sue for adultry, this would in fact mean that your S is your property....ewwwww. The courts had to come up with the no fault D.... I was under the impression that no fault D came about as it was hard to prove fault. As a response, there was all sorts of legal shenanigans (booyah, bonus point for using that word) to get around it. So they (whoever "they" are...possible related to giant radioactive ants) simply added no fault to make it easier on everyone. And lets face it, laws allow for torts...that's all AoA/CC is. You caused me injury and you're gonna pay. Happens everyday...AoA/CC is an issue here for the obvious reasons.
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 This is from a press release after her suicide attempt. From the way it is worded it sounds as if she thought she was entering a relationship with a separated MM. Ummmmm, how many times has that happened around here before? The press release states "Fantasia believed Mr. Cook when he told her he was not happy in his marriage and his heart was not in it. She believed him when he told her he and Mrs. Cook separated in the late summer of 2009. She believed Mr. Cook when he told her he lived elsewhere. He even took her there. One of Mr. Cook’s most redeeming qualities was his complete devotion to his children. Fantasia fell in love with Mr. Cook and believed that he loved her. Fantasia and Mr. Cook dated on and off for about eleven months. See, that is another thing about good ol' North Carolina - it doesn't matter if the marriage was unhappy or if they were separated: in NC, having sex with a married person (meaning not legally divorced) is criminal conversation. That is likely what Fantasia will be sued for. I don't think the BW would win with AOA since their marriage was apparently not ended just because of Fantasia - but there is rock solid proof that Fantasia had sex with her husband, and that is what she will more than likely sue for rather than AOA. There are only two defenses that Fantasia could take - one would be that the affair happened with the consent of both the BW and the MM, and the other would be that there was written proof between BW and MM that the separation was permanent and was going to end in divorce. I don't think she will be able to use either defense.
Mimolicious Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Hint - the clue's in the name - AMERICAN Idol? The rest of us don't know, and don't care... Incidentally, aside from America and a clutch of Muslim fundamentalist states, is adultery still actually illegal anywhere? It just strikes me as bizarre in this day and age still to have statutes on the books that treat people as property! No wonder so many (US) posters on LS regard their spouses as "goods" that can be "stolen" by a third party... What is "US posters" supposed to mean? There 50 states in the USA... Only 7 haven't abolished such statutes. Sounds a bit ignorant and racist to make such a statement, don't you think?
NoIDidn't Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 What is "US posters" supposed to mean? There 50 states in the USA... Only 7 haven't abolished such statutes. Sounds a bit ignorant and racist to make such a statement, don't you think? Ignore it. I think OWoman gets a kick out of trying to insult the American posters. We Americans are such an unenlightened bunch in some regards. LOL. There are quite a few in the Bible Belt (where I live) that see spouses as property. But that's also true in the West Indies, in Latin America, in most Middle Eastern countries as well. I guess its the shock that the idea of "ownership" of spouses is alive and well in an advanced society that shocks some non-Americans.
In_Repair Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Just reading your reply IR....this is quite profound IMO...I am thinking you didn't mean it this way, this is only MY take...k... In order to sue for adultry, this would in fact mean that your S is your property....ewwwww. The courts had to come up with the no fault D.... Because of that reason, I don't agree with the notion of suing your spouse because they had an affair. Your spouse is a living breathing human and should be able to do as they please, legally speaking, in this specific regard. I do however think that an affair should be considered in the divorce proceedings. Even "no fault" states agree with me to an extent, as an affair can have bearing on the divorce proceedings if the BS was a dependent spouse. Some people not only leave the marriage when they are caught having an affair, they also try to financially and socially ruin the BS as they are leaving. My wife tried this until I turned the tables on her. In these cases, where the BS was unfairly punished, I do enjoy hearing about a nice fat alimony settlement. This is somewhat beside the point, because neither a AOA or CC case is directed at the other spouse. I think some of these cases have merit and I can envision scenarios where I would support a monetary settlement based on AOA or CC. My wording must have been off on the property issue. The point I was trying to make is that it isn't logical to conclude that the state maintains these laws because they see one of the spouses as property of the other when they also maintain laws that allow you to divorce your spouse. Property would have no right to divorce.
gopher Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 I do not agree. You are wrong. When she was on - and won - American Idol, it was the number one show in America. It was HUGE. She has gone on to have hits played on the radio, the movie... Broadway. You are, objectively, wrong. Great sales for first CD 1,700,000....big drop off for second 500,000. Based on other Idol's, she would likely sell around 200,000 or less for the third one. Which is either out or coming out shortly....good timing for her....
White Flower Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 and I wonder if this A would've even happened if she weren't a celebrity. I can almost guarantee that alot of celebrities think they can do what they want and who they want. I think its absolutely hilarious that she is being sued. There is an OW here who thinks the BS in her case overdosed for attention/to get her H back. so maybe thats the case here...just because shes a celebrity doesn't excuse her from this behavior! Conversely just because she is a celebrity doesn't mean her suicidal tendencies aren't sincere.
JoyDevine Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 {slight derail} "Huge?" maybe in America. Not even a blip on the radar EVERYWHERE ELSE in the world. And it's a pretty big planet JoyDevine. No disrespect at all, but it always amazes me how Americans think America is the center of the universe. {end derail} Oh so now she's huge in America? In the US she is a "Z" list celebrity Please spare us your Anti American bigotry. It's old now. There are 6 billion people on the planet. I never said she was an international celebrity on the level of Madonna. Just refuted your incorrect claim that she was z list. YOU set up the US as a parameter. She is however, someone who is probably not used to being in the public eye. Celebrity - and scrutiny - came suddenly. That could have been a factor in her suicide attempt.
YellowShark Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Oh so now she's huge in America? {last derail} She is not even huge in America Joy. She is a "Z" list celebrity who won a karaoke contest on a television show in 2004. Please spare us your Anti American bigotry. It's old now. Yawn. Now I am an "Anti American bigot." Your hostility is waaaaaay over the top Joy. I think you may need a timeout. She is however, someone who is probably not used to being in the public eye. That's for damn sure. HA! {end last derail}
JoyDevine Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 {last derail} I am an "Anti American bigot." {end last derail} No disrespect at all, but it always amazes me how Americans think America is the center of the universe. This was very offensive and insulting. It is also one of the claims of most Anti-American bigots. It is not correct in this case. I was merely pointing out how YOU set up "America" as the parameter for her fame or lack thereof.
pureinheart Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I was under the impression that no fault D came about as it was hard to prove fault. As a response, there was all sorts of legal shenanigans (booyah, bonus point for using that word) to get around it. So they (whoever "they" are...possible related to giant radioactive ants) simply added no fault to make it easier on everyone. And lets face it, laws allow for torts...that's all AoA/CC is. You caused me injury and you're gonna pay. Happens everyday...AoA/CC is an issue here for the obvious reasons. and you spelled it right too....and in the right context! You crack me up.... !
pureinheart Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Because of that reason, I don't agree with the notion of suing your spouse because they had an affair. Your spouse is a living breathing human and should be able to do as they please, legally speaking, in this specific regard. I do however think that an affair should be considered in the divorce proceedings. Even "no fault" states agree with me to an extent, as an affair can have bearing on the divorce proceedings if the BS was a dependent spouse. Some people not only leave the marriage when they are caught having an affair, they also try to financially and socially ruin the BS as they are leaving. My wife tried this until I turned the tables on her. In these cases, where the BS was unfairly punished, I do enjoy hearing about a nice fat alimony settlement. This is somewhat beside the point, because neither a AOA or CC case is directed at the other spouse. I think some of these cases have merit and I can envision scenarios where I would support a monetary settlement based on AOA or CC. My wording must have been off on the property issue. The point I was trying to make is that it isn't logical to conclude that the state maintains these laws because they see one of the spouses as property of the other when they also maintain laws that allow you to divorce your spouse. Property would have no right to divorce. In bold...no wonder you reply in certain threads as you do...so very sorry to hear this IR...been there also...although I didn't get to turn any tables...glad you did:D... Last paragragh...your wording wasn't off, I took one psrtial sentance and used that meaning...you were clear:D...I really hope all is well with you now:D
pureinheart Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Why? Because she is being forced to take responsibly for her actions. The words she said to the BW (quoted in an earlier post) does not constitute a mistake. It proves that she knew exactly what she was doing. In bold...we all do things that eventually we regret and consider mistakes, even if we did know at the time it was wrong. HN, this is where I'm concerned, and realise most don't share this belief...I am very careful about the "taking responsibility" thing...being human, being spared so much of what I truly deserved and being given so much grace...well. It's not that I don't think we should take responsibility for our actions, I just think we have all been spared a great deal and should give others the same benefit of the doubt. How do we know what she does behind closed doors...what if she did take responsibility in her heart? I think she did.
In_Repair Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 In bold...no wonder you reply in certain threads as you do...so very sorry to hear this IR...been there also...although I didn't get to turn any tables...glad you did:D... Last paragragh...your wording wasn't off, I took one psrtial sentance and used that meaning...you were clear:D...I really hope all is well with you now:D Yeah, she really tried to drag me through hell. She didn't want to accept responsibility for her own poor judgement, so she tried to spin it to seem as if I drove her to it and she had no choice. I managed to do a good deal of damage control on a social level and most people eventually figured out that she was full of ****. I became obsessed with it and began secretly recording things, snooping in emails, and even put a GPS on her car. I presented the evidence to anyone she tried to tell her lies to. That's why you won't see me dogging anyone for "not respecting their WS's privacy". As far as financially, well, she got the better of me there. She handled all of the household finances. Our bank accounts got emptied and over drafted before I even knew what was going on. When she left, every monthly bill we had was at least one payment behind. She screwed me on money just so she could watch me struggle and possibly lose everything, just so she could then point her finger and say "SEE?... as soon as I left, he fell apart." I didn't though. Instead, she has fallen apart... and it's really sad to watch.
stillafool Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 {slight derail} "Huge?" maybe in America. Not even a blip on the radar EVERYWHERE ELSE in the world. And it's a pretty big planet JoyDevine. No disrespect at all, but it always amazes me how Americans think America is the center of the universe. {end derail} I guess it depends where you live. The radio station I listen to plays her new single "Bittersweet" 20 times a day. I really love Fantasia's voice. I think considering her past mistakes she would have known better than to get involved with a married man before seeing his divorce papers. She is on the gospel circuit and knows she shouldn't have even accepted one date from a married man. I am also surprised at Alicia Keys. What? Are there no single men available to date, marry and get pregnant with? WTF is wrong with these ignorant women?
pureinheart Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Yeah, she really tried to drag me through hell. She didn't want to accept responsibility for her own poor judgement, so she tried to spin it to seem as if I drove her to it and she had no choice. I managed to do a good deal of damage control on a social level and most people eventually figured out that she was full of ****. I became obsessed with it and began secretly recording things, snooping in emails, and even put a GPS on her car. I presented the evidence to anyone she tried to tell her lies to. That's why you won't see me dogging anyone for "not respecting their WS's privacy". As far as financially, well, she got the better of me there. She handled all of the household finances. Our bank accounts got emptied and over drafted before I even knew what was going on. When she left, every monthly bill we had was at least one payment behind. She screwed me on money just so she could watch me struggle and possibly lose everything, just so she could then point her finger and say "SEE?... as soon as I left, he fell apart." I didn't though. Instead, she has fallen apart... and it's really sad to watch. In bold...no, you did not drive her to it. I can understand there being issue in a M, and it's all on an individual basis. A reason yes, the driving factor no. Concerning A's, I really believe that 9 times out of 10 a person will get caught, or will be found out in some way eventually...with this I ask the "whys"...IR, this sounds like a revenge A more than anything. I am really sorry you went through this. In my limited experience, I think the men really have a harder time dealing with the emotions as most of the men, no matter what they do are in the M for for keeps. Men don't like to get M'ed as a rule.
fooled once Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 I do not agree. You are wrong. When she was on - and won - American Idol, it was the number one show in America. It was HUGE. She has gone on to have hits played on the radio, the movie... Broadway. You are, objectively, wrong. Sorry but I agree with Yellow. She was the best of the worst that year on AI. She can't sing - she screams. She feel off the radar, except for the bankruptcy she claimed a year or two ago and blowing all her money. She is a pitiful excuse of a mother - IMHO - and that poor kid doesn't even have a father in her life. She had opportunities, she squandered them. Never cared for her on AI, definitely was glad I didn't hear of her again for years and sadly, have to hear about her now. Her and Ruben Studdard both were pathetic as winners -- especially compared to Carrie Underwood Fisher or Kelly Clarkson. Of course, my favorite was Chris Daughtry!! Anyway, not much the wife will get out of Fantasia since she declared bankruptcy .... and no way do I believe she didn't know what she was doing with this guy. No way. She isn't a guillable girl - she is smart and knew what she was doing.
bentnotbroken Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Sorry but I agree with Yellow. She was the best of the worst that year on AI. She can't sing - she screams. She feel off the radar, except for the bankruptcy she claimed a year or two ago and blowing all her money. She is a pitiful excuse of a mother - IMHO - and that poor kid doesn't even have a father in her life. She had opportunities, she squandered them. Never cared for her on AI, definitely was glad I didn't hear of her again for years and sadly, have to hear about her now. Her and Ruben Studdard both were pathetic as winners -- especially compared to Carrie Underwood Fisher or Kelly Clarkson. Of course, my favorite was Chris Daughtry!! Anyway, not much the wife will get out of Fantasia since she declared bankruptcy .... and no way do I believe she didn't know what she was doing with this guy. No way. She isn't a guillable girl - she is smart and knew what she was doing. :eek:come on now...not Ruben. :Dnot a fan of AI all. But I do enjoy Ruben's gospel music. He has been quite successful at it. I do like Kelly Clarkson's music too.
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