Your thoughts?

[keane2010]

Without making this a life story, I'll try to summarize below (Darn, I failed, but I really appreciate advice anyway). Basically, I'm wondering if others share a similar story or advice.

 

I really hope this doesn't come across as me pretending to be a saint (I am not), but I've been married for 22 years to a good woman. I grew up in a really tough environment, and was determined to be a great father and husband. My wife was very religious, but I could tell she was a good woman, and I really loved her. Unfortunately, she thought I was just a tough guy, but she eventually began to date.

 

Although I was converted to her faith, from day one, we struggled but never really fought. Basically, she has serious insecurity issues, depression, eating disorders, all which went south with the death of every family menber except her sister though various illnesses.

 

When we married, I promised to never let anything come before her. We spent all of our free time together. My idea of a great vacation included one or two of the nights watching a romantic movie, to retire in front of the fireplace, but she would become furious if the television is turned on even once (I don't watch television) and riducule the idea of doing anything other than gazing into each other's eyes. Still, I avoid almost anything that keeps me apart from her and the children.

 

After 15 or so years, my wife admitted that she is very critical, and began to try to work on this. Whenever we are together, every discussion has to include things that are wrong with our life. You have to understand that she is unable to put things into perspective, so a really busy week means I don't love her anymore. Since her depression is very serious, I have always been her cheerleader. Her lunchbag would often contain surprises, I wrote poems, decorated the house for 'unbirthday parties' when she was depressed, etc. I still help with cooking and housework, and try to find ways to make her smile. I take her on dates and we frequently take advantage of weekend suites in a local exclusive hotel for executive employees in my company and other getaways.

 

The embarrassing part is that because I take multiple pain medications for a joint condition, my sex drive is just average (3 or so times per week is about me). In our earlier years, even if we skipped one night, she cried for hours, telling me that a real man wouldn't be like that. It also doesn't help that she now weighs almost a hundred pounds more (I still lift weights and exercise).

 

Last year, for a time my doctors feared that I had a terminal illness. For the first time, she said I was a really good husband and father. This affected me in a way I can't describe. Although she says that she tells others that I am a good person, I only hear what I don't do well. I'm a writer as my hobby, but if she observes me writing for more than 30 minutes,she assumes I hate her. We never discuss my novels since she resents it so much (I don't plan to try publishing until later).

 

I know the previous examples make me sound weak, but I've moved up in my company because I don't really need affirmation from others. I'm finally well beyond the 6 figure income range. But about a year ago, I told her things have to change. She had asked me what she gives to me emotionally, and I had to be honest and tell her that I get nothing, although I love her. No smiles, laughter, compliments. She began to try this, but it is nearly impossible for her to. Because of her insecurities, she feels that I have always not liked her.

 

Now, because I can't convince her that I've been happy in the past, we can barely talk without it turning ugly. Basically, she'll say in once sentence that she feels like such a failure as a wife and mother, but when I encourage her, she asks why I can't just be happy with her as she is. She wants couseling, but only if it is with a pastor. I insist that it has to be a licensed counselor. She is seeing a therapist and takes many medications because when she is not depressed, anxiety causes migraines.

 

Basically, I've decided that next year, when I can afford to put my kids through college and live independently, I'll ask for a divorce. I feel like pond scum, but I have always yearned to be with someone who can smile. But as a nurse, I feel like she can take care of herself.

[You Go Girl]

Sounds like the pampering has gone wayyyyyyyyyyy too far, and for many years.

I'm assuming your wife is not a legitimate princess, and you are not her 'man in waiting', a slave, or other subservient replacable serf working for the 'boss'.

 

Time to try this: Level the playing field. Don't baby her anymore, she's a grown woman for gawd's sake.

If she compliments you, compliment her back. Otherwise, don't compliment unless she does something out of the ordinary.

If she doesn't help out around the house, you don't either.

If she doesn't cook, you don't either.

Etc, etc. etc.

Level that playing field. You are not her slave, she is leaning too much on perceived depression.

If I was in the company of this woman, I'd tell her to quit her whining and pull up her boot straps. Who does she think she is? Does she think the rest of the world has it easy besides her? Come on...she's a nurse, so she knows it isn't so.

Btw, how could such a woman be a caretaker to others? You're not painting the picture of a woman who could do that without beating the patients.

[GorillaTheater]

 

My idea of a great vacation included one or two of the nights watching a romantic movie, to retire in front of the fireplace, but she would become furious if the television is turned on even once (I don't watch television) and riducule the idea of doing anything other than gazing into each other's eyes.

 

After 15 or so years, my wife admitted that she is very critical, and began to try to work on this. Whenever we are together, every discussion has to include things that are wrong with our life. You have to understand that she is unable to put things into perspective, so a really busy week means I don't love her anymore.

 

The embarrassing part is that because I take multiple pain medications for a joint condition, my sex drive is just average (3 or so times per week is about me). In our earlier years, even if we skipped one night, she cried for hours, telling me that a real man wouldn't be like that.

 

Although she says that she tells others that I am a good person, I only hear what I don't do well. I'm a writer as my hobby, but if she observes me writing for more than 30 minutes,she assumes I hate her. We never discuss my novels since she resents it so much.

 

She had asked me what she gives to me emotionally, and I had to be honest and tell her that I get nothing, although I love her. No smiles, laughter, compliments. She began to try this, but it is nearly impossible for her to.

 

Now, because I can't convince her that I've been happy in the past, we can barely talk without it turning ugly. Basically, she'll say in once sentence that she feels like such a failure as a wife and mother, but when I encourage her, she asks why I can't just be happy with her as she is.

 

She wants couseling, but only if it is with a pastor. I insist that it has to be a licensed counselor. She is seeing a therapist and takes many medications because when she is not depressed, anxiety causes migraines.

 

I highlighted some points which struck me. Her neediness is ridiculously over-the-top. She wants to take, and take a hell of alot, emotionally from you but isn't willing to give emotionally to you at all. Your relationship, as I'm sure you're aware, is horribly one-sided. To me, it's unacceptably one-sided.

 

Since divorce is on the table for you at this point, I'd suggest letting her know that. That your condition for staying in the marriage is that she meets regularly with a licensed counsellor and that you start to see some progressive improvement with her issues after a reasonable time. But you can't fold on this; you establish your expectations and follow through if they're not met.

 

Don't be a "bad-ender". Give her this opportunity, with her knowing exactly what the stakes are. That way, if a divorce is indeed the result, you can hold your head high knowing that you gave your marriage every reasonable chance.

 

Though frankly, based on your description of her, I expect her to reject the opportunity to properly address her issues. Doesn't matter, please do it anyways.

[keane2010]

She's a great nurse and good person, but suffers from a personality disorder. In fact, it used to make me very angry to see how her face lit up with her parents. Her therapist told me that she just never realized that relationships with a spouse required anything other than 'being who she is.'

 

In high school, I fought alot and lived in a very tough area, but was tested for intelligence and given sholarships that helped me move out of poverty. We met in college, so she can't put my background in context.

 

My biggest failure is the fact that I have a really hard time doing nothing. She wanted to buy an older home, so she has helped me do electrical, plumbing, wood floors, drywall, build furniture and all the other remodeling. Instead of seeing this as an opportunity to be together, she resented it. Now, most of my hobbies are done while my family sleeps, because I usually only sleep four to five hours.

[GorillaTheater]

Has your wife actually been diagnosed with a particular personality disorder? I'm not arguing as to whether she actually has one, she certainly sounds disordered, but if you have a good diagnosis that would be a good starting point in learning how to more effectively communicate with her.

[keane2010]

Her pervious doctor said she meets most of the criteria for borderline personality disorder, but many doctors are hesitant to diagnose this, especially now that she is not a suicide risk.

[hopesndreams]

I feel like pond scum, but I have always yearned to be with someone who can smile.

 

Do you have anyone in mind?

[wrencn]

Her pervious doctor said she meets most of the criteria for borderline personality disorder, but many doctors are hesitant to diagnose this, especially now that she is not a suicide risk.

I am a borderline. Luckily for me my psychiatrist is an expert in the field and has written books on the subject. I am not suicidal, never have been. It is not necessary to be suicidal to fit the the criteria. Have her read "Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified" by Dr. Robert Freidel. She definitely needs to see a therapist who specializes in BPD, she also needs meds to help her with the extreme anxiety. I am 100x better now that I've been through therapy and am on meds. I won't be on meds forever, they are just helping me deal as I confront the things that happened in my past that lead to my disorder. Best of luck.

[You Go Girl]

I feel like pond scum, but I have always yearned to be with someone who can smile.

 

Do you have anyone in mind?

 

If you're fishing, I get it.

Otherwise, he DESERVES someone who can smile.

 

A W, or H, that thinks their spouse is dumping ground for every bad moment of their lives is doing their spouse no favor.

[keane2010]

If you're fishing, I get it.

Otherwise, he DESERVES someone who can smile.

 

A W, or H, that thinks their spouse is dumping ground for every bad moment of their lives is doing their spouse no favor.

 

 

I've always worn blinders around other people, but the incident that finally cracked through the marriage was a recent vacation to Washington DC for the kids. My wife was in a bad mood the whole time, but I wanted it to be memorable for the kids. On the day we went to the museum of art, I took them alone and realized that so many of the works were the ones I knew very well from some of my college electives. Of course, my kids think I'm eccentric, but we made up interesting stories of what the artist was thinking at the time when it was painted, etc. In the Dutch artist section, we had already gathered a few companions my age (a group of friends travelling together) who pretended to support my theory that one of the artists was driven more by constipation than love, and they shared a suite in the same hotel. Nothing but sharing coffee in the morning happened, but hey...

 

Regarding a previous comment - my wife and I have tentatively discussed divorce. She frequently states that she would understand if we split.

[You Go Girl]

As an Art History minor, I concur: several of the Dutch Masters were driven by constipation.

 

The Q is: Is your W?

 

This may be a needed shake-up. Your W needs to watch a video of herself being unappreciative of a vacation. Do you have one handy from the trip? If not, take some videos at home of something, make up a reason. Just so that she has to watch herself. I am betting that she really doesn't realize how she comes across.

[keane2010]

As an Art History minor, I concur: several of the Dutch Masters were driven by constipation.

 

The Q is: Is your W?

 

This may be a needed shake-up. Your W needs to watch a video of herself being unappreciative of a vacation. Do you have one handy from the trip? If not, take some videos at home of something, make up a reason. Just so that she has to watch herself. I am betting that she really doesn't realize how she comes across.

 

 

It's hard to describe such a situation, but the sad part is that she now understands how she is, but feels powerless to change. On vacations, I can see it coming: she'll get so stressed that she becomes miserable. I'm serious when I say she's read every book about insecurity and depression, and often really wishes to die, thinking we would be happier without her. But to put her side in context, her mother, father, four grandparents, and brother have all died in the last ten years. After three of her close friends died (cancer, cancer and car wreck), I was offered a promotion to move across the country, and we thought it would be a fresh start.

 

It was at this time that I was diagnosed with a possible terminal illness (ALS), but after several months, the progression stopped and now I have recovered (except for muscle pain). Although we are in the early forties, I look twenty years younger than my twin brother, but my wife appears much older, which further threatens her.

[You Go Girl]

I have no idea how to deal with chronic depressives. My only thought is, geez, why wouldn't a person look at the bright side of life because the cloudy or rainy side isn't satisfying? I even go as far as to say that I'm too selfish, and enjoy life too much, to look at the bleak side.

 

So I have zero understanding of depression unless it is linked directly with having to deal with something awful. If there is something awful going on, then it needs to be fixed. If there are past issues that are unresolved, then they need to be addressed asap.

I wish I could give advice, but I'm stumped on this thread. I don't understand someone so needy they would cry for hours because of no sex. I can't relate, I'm not qualified to diagnose.

If nothing else, please get her to psychologist every week.

Your W needs professionals. This forum, nobody here is qualified. But do vent and if I can shed light on anything I will.

[keane2010]

Yes, I was mostly venting. I grew up witnessing the harsher side of life, and I only wanted to meet someone who I'd grow old with, knowing each other completely. She's now trying, but I know she'll never get beyond her own issues completely. I feel like we're supposed to always be there once we committ. Probably the real reason for venting is the fear that there is no 'normal' out there, and this is just as good as it gets.

 

Makes me sound morbid, but I've always been an eternal optimist.

[twisted&alone]

I have been around family my entire life that are diagnosed as "clinically depressed;" it is the most painful thing and it makes an impact on the kids, spouse, friends everyone in their life. I feel your pain and for the optimist (like my dad) you can't understand...you can't relate. My Dad finally understood the lack of control my Mom lives with when it comes to being "depressed;" he had open heart surgery and they say men go through a depression during their recovery. It was a big eye opener for him, because the optimist, who always got up to go, always had something good to say, always seen the glass close to full could not pull himself out of the dark places his mind took him to. I've heard all my life "the mind is a powerful thing" and there could not be a truer statement.

 

As a child growing up with a clinically depressed mother, I understand the concept of "as good as it gets." As the daughter who tried to help her Dad understand and witnessed his frustration, heartache and tears I can feel your pain.

 

There is no greater testament to love, patience, compassion; then loving someone whose mind takes control. You know their heart is good, but the mind overrules the heart and in relationships thinking with your heart is what keeps the balance between the give and take ... IMO.

 

I wish you the best and I hope, as an optimist (most of the time), myself I know that love can be a powerful thing once we understand what the other person needs from us. My mother has never gotten beyond her own issues, but with a new insight from my Dad, they both find they have more good days then ever. (Mom 63 now).

[You Go Girl]

She wants to see a pastor counselor.

At this point, what harm could it do? Are you a strict athiest? Otherwise, why not do what's in her comfort zone, especially since she has a small comfort zone.

It's a start. If the problems are bad enough, the pastor will tell her to see a psychologist.

[keane2010]

She wants to see a pastor counselor.

At this point, what harm could it do? Are you a strict athiest? Otherwise, why not do what's in her comfort zone, especially since she has a small comfort zone.

It's a start. If the problems are bad enough, the pastor will tell her to see a psychologist.

 

 

You are right and thanks for the advice. I should have clarified that in the churches she is comfortable with, the pastors don't believe in clinical depression. They tell her its a lack of faith. Often, she attends church with me and our children (other weeks I attend hers), but would never accept speaking to my pastor since it isn't realy acceptable. You did touch on a big issue. As a teenager, I was really into philosophy, but was converted to her faith. I really don't want to sound arrogant, but my twin brother and I moved out of a rough childhood because we both had intelligence in the genius range, were selected for scholarships, and we pushed each other. I began to questions facets of her conservative beliefs and she now feels that this has hurt her personally. Plus, why would I need affirmation from her when I get it at work and elsewhere? It makes me sound shallow, I know, but once I realized that I was hurting her, I became more supportive these beliefs. Unfortunately, her beleifs make her feel worse.

[You Go Girl]

I know, I see exactly what you are talking about, as I am agnostic myself and lean on psychology much more than faith.

But she has it in her head that faith is the answer. So let her...maybe she will find a way using faith to help herself.

On your other thread I bashed depression, when I said that 3rd world countries don't have the luxury of depression so it is basically unheard of. I think one poster took that wrong, as if I was saying that the pain people feel isn't real. It is real.