Why can't he make a decision?

[Silly_Girl]

.....my concerns lie in the fact that he could be deleting things that he doesn't want me to see....

 

But. He is NOT spinning you and you are NOT subject to his selective truth-telling??

 

You are. There's old stuff he's 'protecting you from'.

 

He's calling the shots. I am not saying you ARE being manipulated. I'm saying you're being a fool to yourself if you will not even consider that could be the case.

[lbm74]

I guess manipulation is involved here, as in while things were hot and heavy with my H and the OW, yes. As for now, he has so much to figure out in therapy, and he is trying to tell me as much as he can (that he feels relevant to the situation without hurting me more) lesser so.

As far as what do I believe about this other woman? I am seriously considering the others advice about hiring a PI. I do not believe much about her story. Especially since everytime my husband tried to meet up with her, she stood him up. Even when he tried to meet up with her at a Dr. appt for her lupus diagnosis, as a safe location, to take her out to lunch and just talk, she no-showed for the md appt, and according to the receptionist, her name wasn't even in the computer. She gave BS story about the fact that she didn't feel well enough to go to the appt, and her name wasn't in the computer because she has so much money that this "specialist" didn't make her an appt, he was just willing to see her. He still forgave her. I really feel like a PI would finally prove her lies, and then my H can move on. He is willing to do this.

So I guess my next question might be, does anyone know anything about hiring a PI???

Also, she recently told my H that because she felt that her only goal in life was to have children, and now can't, and only has 10 yrs to live, that she has hired a lawyer and 2 surrogates to have his child- a girl (we have 3 sons) And apparently my H mentioned my girl name to her in the past, and she has referred to it as the (girlname)situation. Boy, does she have balls or what?! He does not, btw, plan on agreeing to this. But hasn't told her yet b/c he doesn't want to hurt her even more, and again, wants to do all of this in person (the closure thing).

This is why I see a lot of manipulation on her end. (not that my h is innocent at all).

[Silly_Girl]

I think you have two issues, but only one matters.

 

The first is that this woman is a nutjob. She's lying to your husband, she's playing mind games and messing him about. She is either having a lot of fun or needs help.

 

Secondly your husband is opting to play this stuff out. He is ACTIVELY CHOOSING to put her first and you second. So you can see how worthless their relationship is (based on what he might be choosing to show you), we here can see it, but he can't rate you and your life above this nonsense.

 

You're worth more. He may not have 'decided' in ten years time. Your loyalty does not outweigh - for him - this madness.

 

You have invested a lot in him, to be there, to support him. You want the best for all of you. But I wonder if it's time to accept that his behaviour is HIS behaviour and yours is yours. Accept this situation, now and for ever, or take responsibility for your life. Take decisions you can take, and stop getting caught up in things you have no influence over.

 

Easier said than done. But I hope you can start living for YOU and stop sucking up his 'issues'.

[lbm74]

Thank you finally free, thank you. Why is it that everyone else can see how disturbing this woman/scenario is, except my H?

I guess I know the answer to that, but I wish he could see it. He is such a smart guy, and yet, so thick in the head right now.

Believe me, if it weren't for our three kids, he would have been out of my life a long time ago, despite my love for him. I just never would have put up with it and dealt with the loss, and moved on. But with kids in the mix, he will be a part of our/their lives forever, so I am taking my love for him, and trying to help him come to his senses, get rid of her, and then work on us.

Again, thank you-those words are exactly what I needed to hear.

[lbm74]

Silly girl,

somehow I missed your reply- thank you too. Again I finally feel like my sense of this woman being a nutjob is justified.

LS has been so helpful to me, and you all have truly given me the strength to do what I have to do. Today I told my H that I exposed him to my family. His family will be next. And if separation occurs, then he will be exposed to all our friends and the rest of our families. I know he doesn't want that, so let's hope he get's his sh*t together soon.

Thank you again!!

[Jilly Bean]

Even when he tried to meet up with her at a Dr. appt for her lupus diagnosis, as a safe location, to take her out to lunch and just talk, she no-showed for the md appt, and according to the receptionist, her name wasn't even in the computer. She gave BS story about the fact that she didn't feel well enough to go to the appt, and her name wasn't in the computer because she has so much money that this "specialist" didn't make her an appt, he was just willing to see her.

 

How are you privvy to this level of detail about your husband's affair partner? Either you're making all of this up, or you're sitting in the kitchen having coffee with him, and discussing his love woes, like a BFF. I suppose he's lucky to have you supporting his affair so well...

 

It's beyond bizarre that you seem to be so enabling and accommodating, and, that your husband seems to think so little of you, that he has no problem discussing the minutae of their affair.

 

Why is it that everyone else can see how disturbing this woman/scenario is, except my H?

 

Yeah, I don't see her as being the disturbing part of this story...

[2sunny]

Silly girl,

somehow I missed your reply- thank you too. Again I finally feel like my sense of this woman being a nutjob is justified.

LS has been so helpful to me, and you all have truly given me the strength to do what I have to do. Today I told my H that I exposed him to my family. His family will be next. And if separation occurs, then he will be exposed to all our friends and the rest of our families. I know he doesn't want that, so let's hope he get's his sh*t together soon.

Thank you again!!

 

you need to make a decision for YOU. to expose is simply manipulating at the expense of his bad behavior (even though he deserves it). ultimately - YOU need to decide if you're going to live with his bad behavior or not.

 

this decision is YOURS.

 

why are YOU waiting for your husband to further control your future? haven't you been doing it that way for too long already? how much MORE power are you willing to hand over to him.

 

stop being the victim in this and take the bull by the horns - YOU need to become the warrior!

 

do it. just tell him it's over- actually it was over a long time ago - you just kept resigning your contract to be his doormat.

 

you deserve more than that. be strong.

 

the title of your thread is incorrect - why can't YOU make a decision? it is YOURS to make... not his. this is YOUR life - start acting like it's yours.

[torranceshipman]

LS has been so helpful to me, and you all have truly given me the strength to do what I have to do. Today I told my H that I exposed him to my family. His family will be next. And if separation occurs, then he will be exposed to all our friends and the rest of our families. I know he doesn't want that, so let's hope he get's his sh*t together soon.

Thank you again!!

 

Brilliant....well done. You did the right thing.

 

This is likely to expose the lies, too. The objective ears of 2 families, with their demands from him for details/accountability, will no doubt give you a much clearer picture of what is going on. You no longer need to bear this load alone.

 

I think that he will panic, as others are less likely to take him at his word, if his word sounds suspect! For example, the lupus story and all its vagaries, his 'I can't make up my mind who I want', the fact that he calls her, texts her, sets up meetings with her 'for closure' ad she ignores it all...to an uninvolved outsider that sounds like he is chasing her, which is obviously beyond inappropriate.

 

Anyway you totally did the right thing and that must have taken a lot of courage.

[torranceshipman]

Also, to add...I agree that this is YOUR life and YOUR choice to make, not his. It is a hard choice to separate but I suspect your outing the A might have been your first step to doing this. Your family will see that you acted with dignity by trying to make it work and to go to counselling, and will respect you for that, but I suspect that they will also comment, as we have, that now is the time to separate, to get yourself out of this stressful situation, to stop enabling him in the A, and to remove yourself from a situation where you are being really disrespected.

[pureinheart]

I too think he has already chosen... have his stuff on the curb when he gets home. You have to take care of you.

 

Please OP I am not making light of your situation by any means (I agree with OW and Owl also)...although Bent when I read your post I had very fond memories of this curb...stuff + stbexh=curb (and I didn't need algebra for that:)).

 

My daughter has some curb memories also. She found out while she was painting that her H left to go "party" (he was seeing another)....well he had some priddy nice stuff but paint got all over everything and it ended up in a pile "on the curb"?????? We, to this day have no idea how that happened.

 

OP- I had a friend that everytime her H would threaten to leave, or actually leave she would either try to commit suicide (of which I make no light of this and took it very seriously), had cancer a few days later, brain tumors...you name it.

 

It's hard to say if it is the truth or not, BUT your H is choosing to not end it....ok, he is risking his M for an internet/phone A??????????

 

I would choose the "curb" experience if I were you ....

[pureinheart]

OPPPPPPPssss

 

I didn't see your reply that you are trying to reconcile a bit...my bad, usually read OP then sometimes a few replies...

 

If he doesn't line up CURBBBBBBBBBBB....

[Ellin]

I think it would be hard to find anyone that admits they manipulated someone. I think most people feel they are the ones being manipulated. The perception is usually that MMs manipulate both their wives and their OWs. I do feel, however, that being in an affair takes manipulationg on both player's parts. Often the OW probably manipulates without realizing she's doing it... such as pressuring the MM to make a decision or withholding sex etc. But making up or exaggerating diseases to make MM stay with her... if that's what you fear your H's OW is doing... is very extreme and I can't remember seeing anything like that before.

 

Maybe this woman really does have those diseases and problems? Or else she may be very mentally unstable with issues. The question for me is why your H buys into it and wants to stay with her and chooses her over your marriage. Have you thought of saying, okay, go be with her in real life and take care of her since you can't cut off contact with her? That might snap him out of his fantasy world really quickly.

 

In any case I don't feel you deserve this and I hope you can get out of this awful situation. Best wishes.

 

At first I thought the OW was exaggerating her problems to manipulate the MM but after I read the thread on the other forum I'm not so sure, since the OP stated that her H actively pursued the OW in search for "closure", while she didn't seem so keen on continuing the contact in the end..

 

I think the main thing is that the H is consumed by his unfulfilled sexual fantasies and this is what fuels the whole A.

[lbm74]

I am so sorry for what you are going through. That you can even thank me for that reply is really hard for me.

 

Please take care of yourself and your kids. I can't even imagine what you are going through.

 

Finally_free,

As a physician, can I ask you- I would prefer not to hire a PI. If I have her name, DOB, medical school and place of residency, can my H and I look into her actual attendances to these places? One of the few things we actually believe to be true is that she is an md. She has discussed some of her situations (medically) in quite a bit of detail, and apparently can answer medical questions without hesitation, with proper terminology. As a PA myself, medical terminology usage is one of the things I could have him verify for me/us (to some degree).

 

With my extensive familial support, I would not be able to function. Thank goodness for them.

My biggest confidant in this whole situation is my best friend since childhood, and she has been studying psychology for years, and now is (coincidentally) studying to be a marriage counsellor. Ha! She is the only person that has known everything since day one.

[Fight4Me]

My apologies for coming into this a little late and also for not reading the thread in Infidelity specifically, but what you've just described about this woman sounds exactly like Münchhausen Syndrome. Take a quick glance through the most common symptoms:

 

 

• Dramatic but inconsistent medical history
  
• Unclear symptoms that are not controllable and that become more severe or change once treatment has begun
  
• Predictable relapses following improvement in the condition
  
• Extensive knowledge of hospitals and/or medical terminology, as well the textbook descriptions of illnesses
  
• Presence of multiple surgical scars
  
• Appearance of new or additional symptoms following negative test results
  
• Presence of symptoms only when the patient is alone or not being observed
  
• Willingness or eagerness to have medical tests, operations, or other procedures
  
• History of seeking treatment at numerous hospitals, clinics, and doctors offices, possibly even in different cities
  
• Reluctance by the patient to allow health care professionals to meet with or talk to family, friends, or prior health care providers
  
• Problems with identity and self-esteem
  

I am hardly qualified to diagnose anyone third-hand on a message board, let alone in real life, but this struck me right away because someone I know very personally had a husband who got taken in by an almost identical situation. This is not to absolve your WH of guilt (far from it), but if the above is the case, there's a surprising number of people who fall for this. It's usually done gradually, and the one who buys the story gets to the point where they have to convince themselves it's true, or even play into the game due to unbelievable embarrassment, especially if they're normally considered intelligent and sensible.

 

Google Münchhausen Syndrome. It's at least worth taking a look at.

 

Oh, and my apologies if someone else has already suggested this as a possibility. I just had so many alarm bells go off that I didn't want to hesitate in posting the info.

[nadiaj2727]

At first I thought the OW was exaggerating her problems to manipulate the MM but after I read the thread on the other forum I'm not so sure, since the OP stated that her H actively pursued the OW in search for "closure", while she didn't seem so keen on continuing the contact in the end..

 

I think the main thing is that the H is consumed by his unfulfilled sexual fantasies and this is what fuels the whole A.

 

Yeah, I haven't read the other thread. I agree though that this is more than just the OW making stuff up... maybe the H is making stuff up to LBM about the OW as a reason to stay with the OW?

 

LBM so your husband tried to set up a date with the OW and she made up an excuse not to see him??? Yet then she comes up with excuses to keep him on the hook? I don't think your husband is giving you the full story.

 

I know you are in pain but I'm glad you're getting stronger and that you told your family. Good for you. It sounded to me like you were making a lot of excuses for him when the bottom line is he is not putting you first. So you have to put yourself first and I'm glad you are!!

[Fight4Me]

Münchhausen is tough. I have only seen two patients ever with it (as an aside, ever heard of 'Münchhausen-by-proxy'? That will really knock your socks off!)

 

It is a psychiatric disorder. It could be it, but there is no way to know from this info. Frankly, it doesn't jump out to me as such. Because Münchhausen is about attention-seeking and it isn't related to a relationship or (what I see here) as manipulation. In other words, for the OW (or OM) who might invent a disease to keep their affair partner interested, that is a manipulative tactic, not Münchhausen. If on the other hand, the latter went way back with a lot of history, then maybe. That wasn't my feeling here though.

 

 

Yes, there's also a Münchhausen by Internet now as another classification.

 

Regardless of what it is, none of us can actually do anything about it. I just thought if the OP saw it as a possibility, she may be able to help wake up her husband with the info. BUT, I went back and read the thread in Infidelity, and there's oh so much more to this, that's it's not so cut-and-dried.

 

Finally_Free, I'm glad you are able to offer the OP extra help. I pray for the best possible outcome to this.

[carrie999]

Agreed. This is crap. It's one thing to accept it when it's only you who will get hurt, but it's another thing entirely when you have children. Whatever his reasons, he's acting horribly and you need to get out of this!

[jj33]

LBM I am so sorry you are going through this but I think your focus on the woman is not helping you.

 

Hes never met this woman correct? Its an internet relationship?

 

You are his wife.

 

Either he cuts off all contact or you do what you need to do for you and your children. It doesnt matter what is wrong with her. And since he has never met her, there is NO reason to meet her now.

 

What is this Autumn in NY or whatever that was where Richard Gere fell in love with whatever her name is even tho she had a heart condition? If he wants to play that part he needs to leave and be the knight in shining aromor after he has divorced.

 

Spending time looking at her illness real or imagined is not time well spent. She is not the problem. Your H is the problem here.

 

I think you said you had given him until the end of the month to make up his mind? Maybe that time frame has changed now that you have told the family.

 

Think this through carefully and do what is best for you and the children.

 

Wishing you strength.

[lbm74]

LBM I am so sorry you are going through this but I think your focus on the woman is not helping you.

 

Hes never met this woman correct? Its an internet relationship?

 

You are his wife.

 

Either he cuts off all contact or you do what you need to do for you and your children. It doesnt matter what is wrong with her. And since he has never met her, there is NO reason to meet her now.

 

What is this Autumn in NY or whatever that was where Richard Gere fell in love with whatever her name is even tho she had a heart condition? If he wants to play that part he needs to leave and be the knight in shining aromor after he has divorced.

 

Thank you for the well wishes and advice, jj33. Unfortunately there are many layers to this story-I started on the infidelity forum (that is where my original post is) and it was suggested I come here for advice on my husband's issues with OW. He met her in an airport over a year ago, and since then it has been phone, internet, and text since. She was perfectly healthy until he tried NC in January, and then all of her medical issues mysteriously began after a supposed brutal sexual assault. He has been in contact with her since then as a support system because she only was confiding in him (yeah, right). She was "on the verge of death" numerous times, and so he didn't feel right trying for the NC again until she felt better and he could have closure. She NEVER feels right, surprise, surprise. And now she apparently is going in for surgery again. My husband is now, finally, finally expressing total frustration over her tactics, but still won't push the envelope and cut her off.

 

In regards to the exposure to my family part, he fully understood. He actually confided in a friend, and his friend told him to go find this girl and figure it out. HELLO! I don't know what BS my husband fed him, but who in their right mind would encourage that? Unless he was just saying what my H wanted to hear.

 

Autumn in Ny- that is funny. Seriously-who would leave 3 young beautiful boys, and wife that he states himself is stunningly beautiful (his words not mine) for a woman who is deathly sick, constantly in pain, and has 10 yrs to live? I smell something fishy here.

 

Spending time looking at her illness real or imagined is not time well spent. She is not the problem. Your H is the problem here.

 

I think you said you had given him until the end of the month to make up his mind? Maybe that time frame has changed now that you have told the family.

 

Think this through carefully and do what is best for you and the children.

 

 

Wishing you strength.

 

Thanks, I need all the strength I can get, because the time frame for me being on my own and taking care of 3 little boys, a house, & working full time is approaching, and I am scared.

[Silly_Girl]

Honey, you say 'unfortunately there are many layers to this story', but it all just adds up to the right thing being to free yourself from this emotional prison. Not only are you not growing as a person, but nor can he all the while you're picking up after him and wiping his butt.

 

He'll never live a normal life if you don't force him to man up now.

 

And you'll never have any semblance of a life if you continue to live in the shadow of this (somewhat eerie) set-up.

 

I had a call from an elderly family member once. My bf of 7 years had tried to seduce my (much younger) cousin, so everyone in the family knew about it. The old bird had been in a tough relationship for more than twenty years. She left and some time later found the best friend she has ever known in her life. Her and he, they have a love everyone can see and are seeing out their last years together and having a ball. She told me that she decided she would be better off spending the rest of her life alone with a 'relaxed mind' than what she/I was going through. Of course, I never dreamt she 'got it'. It's always different isn't it. Except it's not. You can't put a price on knowing that what happens to your life is YOUR doing. You wake up and you know what you're doing and what's going on, and you go to bed feeling exactly the same way. That will never happen all the while you're hanging like a thread waiting for him to 'accept' you or 'reject' you.

 

Toss him out. Let him worry about him. You worry about you, and your wonderful, lovable, three little men. They'll appreciate your love. Your husband won't.

[jj33]

LBM noone understands better than i what it is like to be alone with your thoughts, wondering trying to piece things together, thinking knowledge is power and looking for all the facts and over intellectualizing the whole thing. I know I have stayed stuck on certain aspects of my A because I overintellectualize it. So with the knowledge that those who cant do may still give good advice...

 

The layers dont matter to the facts. They matter in terms of your heart and the hurt. No question about that.

 

But Silly (not so Silly at all) gave you good advice.

 

Woudl it matter if she had an incurable disease and was going to spend the next few years waiting to die? Woudl you say OK darling I understand the children and I will soldier on with out you? NO

 

Would it matter if she was a long term OW and suddenly fell ill and he felt compelled to see her through her illness? Unlikely

 

So WHY should her state of mind or health matter now.

 

All that YOU need to decide is are you willing to sit back and share your husband while he works out what he wants to do.

 

I can see why you would give him time to get with the program kicking someone out impulsively who may get it right is not practical.

 

But at the end of your time frame (16 days and counting right?) either he stays and goes to counselling with you and goes TOTAL NC or he finds himself a little bachelor pad and you contact a lawyer.

 

Indeed I hope you have a good divorce lawyer on tap already you may need to act quickly protecting accounts etc if the day comes and he hasnt made up his mind and you have to kick him out or he leaves, you dont want to find yourself in a mess.

 

Hang in there. Whatever happens you will come out of it a little more weary (alot more weary) but you and the children will thrive.

[jj33]

Just to add it is possible that she is going through all this. Lupus can be triggered by stress and once its triggered it can be very serious and it does involve constant pain etc.

 

But that doesnt matter. What matters is either he is going to leave her to her life and be the husband you need him to be or he is not. There is no inbetween.

 

He has to man up and you may have to force his hand on this