Need dealing with my husband's BIZRRE EA

[lbm74]

Agreed owl!

Turnera, yes, the reason why he ended up in therapy is because of the EA. She is the only one he has told everything to, and she probably knows more than I do.

As for a PI, we both want to hire one, but cannot afford the $$. And this might not go over well, but the lack of extra$ is another reason I did not kick him out immediately. The expense of renting would have been difficult, not to mention having a newborn at home with 2 other children under the age of 5. That and returning back to work after maternity leave, dealing with getting the kids to and from daycare, working full time, and all the stress of dinner, baths, bedtime by myself was too much to bear. We started with an "in-house separation" but it hasn't worked out all that well. I know, I know, excuses.

[Owl]

So you're trying to say that LBM deserved this, Lilybart?

 

Pretty rough assessment.

 

But I'll bite.

 

So what is your recommendation to HELP out the OP here?

 

What do you suggest she do to reconcile her marriage, given that this is her goal?

 

Rather than sit there and try to be judgemental...throw in some (hopefully) useful advice.

[turnera]

Agreed owl!

Turnera, yes, the reason why he ended up in therapy is because of the EA. She is the only one he has told everything to, and she probably knows more than I do.

As for a PI, we both want to hire one, but cannot afford the $$. And this might not go over well, but the lack of extra$ is another reason I did not kick him out immediately. The expense of renting would have been difficult, not to mention having a newborn at home with 2 other children under the age of 5. That and returning back to work after maternity leave, dealing with getting the kids to and from daycare, working full time, and all the stress of dinner, baths, bedtime by myself was too much to bear. We started with an "in-house separation" but it hasn't worked out all that well. I know, I know, excuses.

There's nothing wrong with trying to save your marriage.

 

I suggest that you go to marriagebuilders.com and print out both copies of the Love Buster questionnaire. Both of you fill it out, and swap. Be honest. It will tell you what you do that LBs your husband - what he doesn't like about you. So that you can STOP doing what he considers LBs. (within reason) And he should be doing the same thing with the information you give him on your LB questionnaire. Work on that for a month or two, to give yourselves time to change your habits.

 

Once you do that, go back and get the Emotional Needs questionnaire. Do the same thing. It will teach you what your husband's top ENs are - so that YOU are the only person meeting those needs, and not some woman on the net. (again, within reason)

[lbm74]

So in EIGHTEEN YEARS of having sex with this man, you never "pushed the envelope"? You never tried to open a discussion of experimenting with other things besides vanilla sex? Maybe (just maybe) if you had, he would have been comfortable opening up to you about his "interest" - don't you think?

 

I think it speaks volumes that HE was too afraid to bring it up and YOU never took the initiative to spice things up.

 

*shakes head* And people wonder why affairs happen.

 

As for wanting to have sex 10 times a week - personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Maybe what he needs is a woman who can either match is pace or out-sex him.

 

lilybart, you are being very protective of my cheating spouse simply because of mutual sexual interests...

FYI, I was his first love, the only woman he has ever made love to. We were 18, and in college. All we did was experiment! We had sex everywhere, and by senior year I knew what he liked (from what he had expressed). From a bdsm standpoint he is very tame. His interests lie in stocking fetishes and lingerie. I put a lot of effort into this for him, and for a while he appreciated it. After several years, however, I began to resent the fact that I always had to dress the part for him to have sex with me-he couldn't just be turned on by me in a pair of jeans. I discussed these issues many times, and yet he never ever mentioned that he wanted me to call him master or sir. He never even tried to let me in on that side of things. Even now, when all is out in the open, he admitted that he wished he had. He felt ashamed of himself, and, to quote him, "respected me too much" to bring me into that world. Once he explored more, and became accepted, it was too late. His worlds were divided, and was fairly content with it all. Once the whole kids thing began to happen, my sex drive, which in most conversations of 3-4 times a week is 'normal', absolutely plummeted, and that sucked for both of us. The 3rd go around with an accidental pregnancy was the turning point for him, and it was then that he met this woman. It was then that he made the poor decision to carry on this fantasy and fall in love with her.

Lilybart, have you ever been pregnant? Have you breastfed exclusively for over a year? Do you know what it does to your hormones?

How dare you place the blame on me.

[lbm74]

Owl and BB07, thanks for the support!

Turnera, great suggestions, will do!

[turnera]

How dare you place the blame on me.

That's how cheaters justify doing something as immoral as cheating - blaming the betrayed spouses.

[Owl]

Here's a couple more thoughts for you, LBM.

 

First...develop a plan.

 

If you want to save your marriage, develop a plan on how you'll do so. Identify the key things that need to happen in order for this to occur (remove OW from the picture, address your H's "needs":sick:, rebuild the communication in your marriage, etc...).

 

Follow Turnera's suggestions on using the free materials over on marriagebuilders...however I personally do not recommend the forums there in any fashion or form. Years ago I got some good out of them, but there's too much that goes on there now that I simply don't agree with. That's my opinion...others have had better luck. Just giving you my personal take on that.

 

But...the free material is sound. So are some of the books if you decide to invest in them.

 

His Needs/Her Needs is good, and so is "Surviving an Affair".

 

But...back to the advice.

 

Use the materials you can to help you develop action plans around the changes that need to occur. Develop ACTIONS to take to lead to these changes...that ultimately lead to your goal of saving your marriage.

 

Part of that should include some boundaries that both of you should be taking in safeguarding your marriage.

 

Part of the whole trick to this is to keep from becoming a doormat. Don't be so afraid of losing your husband that you agree to things that violate your beliefs/values/self-worth. For example...don't agree to an open marriage if you don't want one. Don't agree to give him six months to decide what he wants.

 

But put together a plan...with definable actions, clear goals, and a good understanding of how it meets those goals.

 

Then make it happen.

 

I still feel you need to be very cautious about giving your H til the end of the month. Frankly, this is just too long. The longer he takes to "choose", the less likely it is that he's REALLY going to work on your marriage.

[linwood]

She didn't say marriage. She said 'pregnancy'. There's a difference....

 

Only if the attitude we`re discussing isn`t apparent in the overall marriage.

 

A woman who would be fine having no sexual contact with her husband regardless of pregnancy seems to me to have the attitude regardless.

That`s a problem for the marriage.

 

I beg to differ.

Some women's sex drives completely plummet when they're pregnant.

 

This is not an excuse for refusing or ignoring the need for sexual intimacy in a marriage.

 

The spouse who would do such a thing is acting in a most self-centered manner.

 

If their husbands finds gratification through porn and masturbation, they're happy for them, because it means the husbands are dealing with their sexual impulses, and it lets the pregnant wives off the hook.

[quoe]

 

This is the problem I`m discussing.

 

One is never "off the hook" concerning the needs of their spouse.

To think and believe you are is a serious red flag for any marriage whatever that need may be.

 

There are many ways to have sex and explore intimacy beyond intercourse.

A spouse who does not desire to explore these possibilities when need arises is a spouse who is not considerate of his/her spouse.

 

Trust me, if your husband has any sexual desire for you at all the gratification of substituting pornography for sexual intimacy is empty.

 

This doesn't sound like a woman who wasn't happy in her marriage.

 

Perhaps.

[linwood]

Thanks to all for the responses. Linwood, TaraMaiden is right about the marriage/pregnancy thing. I had no sex drive while pregnant, and felt very maternal as a result, as opposed to sexy. We dealt with this issue for our first, and openly discussed how we would deal with the situation.

 

Please explain how decided to deal with the situation.

 

It was therefore understood for the other pregnancies. I made attempts to satisfy him, to some degree, but after 4-5th months into preg, things would go downhill in that regard.

 

Could you explain why?

 

Again, we agreed to try, but overall, he took care of things his way, and we were OK with that, even joked about it.

 

I can almost guarantee you that regardless of what he said he was not "OK" with it.

He most likely was trying to spare you.

The fact that he felt he had to spare you is a problem I think.

 

I began to wonder what was wrong- he said he resented me for allowing the pregnancy to happen. Obviously this was a strange turn of events, many words were had, and in retrospect, this was exactly the time that he met her (didn't know it then).

 

Actually this is not a strange turn of events at all.

From your posts I gather that you and your husband have apparently gone for very long stretches without physical intimacy.(3 Pregnancies, 2 of them back to back)

This makes his earlier comment about the new house understandable.

He asked if you "had everything you need" and resented the 3rd pregnancy.

It could be he began to think of himself as nothing more than a provider to meet the needs of a spouse who wasn`t (and didn`t seem to care to from his POV) meet his needs.

I myself have these thoughts in my happy marriage.

 

Please don`t misunderstand me.

 

I`m not trying to give you a hard time and I believe your husbands actions as described in your OP are totally unacceptable.

If he had a problem he should have discussed it with you.

 

I`m just trying to give you some idea of where his head might be.

[LSNoob]

Oh give us a break lin. The woman is pregnant for the love of god, what do you want her to do? How about you try and get pregnant and see how difficult it is. Why you trying to give the message like "yea she's a woman, let her deal with it". How about you stop acting like a horny mammal and think with your head ( the one up there, of course).

 

One is never "off the hook" concerning the needs of their spouse.

 

The wife is in need of a break for few months of sex because she is pregnant with his child. Where are his concerns for her needs?

[linwood]

Obviously linwood you are a man and have no idea what it is like to have a life growing inside you.

 

It isn't any woman's job - pregnant or not - to be submissive to a man and his needs; however and whenever he wants. She is pregnant and with pregnancy comes MANY things - such as sickness, decreased sexual desire, and pain. It isn't her job to be his sex toy at his whim.

 

She was growing a life inside her, in addition to taking care of 2 other young children ... while he was off fulfilling his sexual needs. Hopefully she can be forgiven by men who believe she should be waiting and accommodating while she is pregnant, nauseated, possibly in pain and exhausted

 

Just because during her pregnancy, she wasn't at the ready each and every time he wanted to have sex doesn't mean they have marriage issues. Quite frankly, she doesn't have to accommodate him even when she isn't pregnant.

 

Sorry to threadjack, but I felt the need to interject as a woman who has been pregnant and understands the changes a body goes through during pregnancy and how the heck that equals it being HER fault he chose have an affair.

 

I believe you should re-read my original post again as I never stated a single thing you accuse me of ..not one.

 

I have not stated it was "the op`s fault" her husband had an affair nor have a stated that anyone should be submissive to anyone else`s sexuality.

 

I never stated that anyone should be anyone`s "sex toy"

 

You yourself have made quite a few generalizations which are patently untrue.

 

I know numerous women whose sex drives actually increased during pregnancies and I know many who have used their pregnancies as an excuse to avoid intimacy.

 

I am a man and I`m trying to give the OP some idea of where her husbands obviously messed up head might be and why.

 

I`ve never seen a forum with so much projection and defensiveness as this one.

 

Chill out.

[lbm74]

Please explain how decided to deal with the situation.

 

 

 

Could you explain why?

 

 

 

I can almost guarantee you that regardless of what he said he was not "OK" with it.

He most likely was trying to spare you.

The fact that he felt he had to spare you is a problem I think.

 

 

 

Actually this is not a strange turn of events at all.

From your posts I gather that you and your husband have apparently gone for very long stretches without physical intimacy.(3 Pregnancies, 2 of them back to back)

This makes his earlier comment about the new house understandable.

He asked if you "had everything you need" and resented the 3rd pregnancy.

It could be he began to think of himself as nothing more than a provider to meet the needs of a spouse who wasn`t (and didn`t seem to care to from his POV) meet his needs.

I myself have these thoughts in my happy marriage.

 

Please don`t misunderstand me.

 

I`m not trying to give you a hard time and I believe your husbands actions as described in your OP are totally unacceptable.

If he had a problem he should have discussed it with you.

 

I`m just trying to give you some idea of where his head might be.

 

Lin,

You redeemed yourself in the end, but definately had me fuming in the beginning-why so heated?

Listen, All 3 of my pregnancies were back to back. We had infertility problems for the first, and thought the second was a fluke. As for the 3rd? No answer, just a miscalculation.

Why did things go bad by the 4th-5th month? Think about it--I began to look and feel like a cow. Sorry, but that is just how it feels, and when someone starts to become sexual with you and suddenly the baby kicks you (and him) in the midst, it is a bit disturbing. Situations such as these are buzkills for many, but no, not all. I could go into a lot more detail, but it would be a bit gruesome, so I'll spare you the details. See, isn't it nice to be spared sometimes? It is what people do to show kindness. And when it comes within a marriage on occasion, it is appreciated. As long as the communication is there and thus the understanding, next time around the tables can turn.

The strange turn of events came when I was upset to be pregnant again when we had just discussed how we could begin our post-child courtship again. He supported the pregnancy, told me everything would be ok, and then within 4 months began to resent me for allowing myself to get pregnant. Now that IS a strange turn of events.

Yes, porn is empty of intimacy, but better than nothing. And when I say nothing I mean less than average amoiunt of sex than when I wasn't pregnant.

When he asked me if I had everything I needed, it was because he was about to leave me for this OW, and wanted to make sure I was all set to be alone and take care of the kids. And I hadn't even delivered our 3rd yet.

 

I totally appreciate a man's point of view as well as a devil's advocate, infact I encourage it. So I hope my explanations have helped.

The issue of not enough sex and not the right kind of sex prior to kids was what I was totally unaware of. And him not communicating that to me in my opinion was selfish and self-centered. Because of this, he sought his needs on the internet, so he chose the emptyness of anonymity. But we all know that can't remain empty forever, and he was bound to meet the person who could be there sexually AND emotionally, That was when his emotional wall began to build, and I felt it. But he did not come clean for several months.

[LilyBart]

lilybart, you are being very protective of my cheating spouse simply because of mutual sexual interests...

FYI, I was his first love, the only woman he has ever made love to. We were 18, and in college. All we did was experiment! We had sex everywhere, and by senior year I knew what he liked (from what he had expressed).

 

LBM, I’m not “being protective” of your H. If you're willing to listen, I do think I know where he’s coming from and I will try to give you a perspective other than your own.

 

My first clue that the two of your aren't on the same page regarding sex (and maybe never were) is the fact that you said "All we DID was experiment". Did. Past tense. You didn't say "All we DO is experiment".

 

And then you said "by senior year I knew what he liked". Lets face it – 18 year old sex is exciting AS IS, just because you’re 18. And just because you "had sex everywhere” 18 years ago (to a man who's currently into BDSM) is NOT THAT EXCITING. I'm sorry to break this to you but location is just a location and BDSM isn’t exhibitionism and 18 years ago is almost 2 decades in the past. BDSM is a whole different mindset of role playing and exploration.

 

Let me ask you this - did you keep "experimenting" with your H as the years went by? Did you bring anything new to the table to titillate him? As we get older a lot of us need a little bit more stimulation instead of the same-old same-old. Don’t think your H is so “out there” just because he gets a kick out of BDSM. He’s not that unusual.

 

From a bdsm standpoint he is very tame. His interests lie in stocking fetishes and lingerie. I put a lot of effort into this for him, and for a while he appreciated it. After several years, however, I began to resent the fact that I always had to dress the part for him to have sex with me-he couldn't just be turned on by me in a pair of jeans.

 

You don’t know the whole story. You can take it for what it’s worth but – where there’s smoke there’s fire. What he has TOLD YOU is “very tame”. I would not be surprised to find out he’s into A LOT more than you think. The question is, are you ready to find out? Are you willing to (IF or WHEN he lets you in on his fantasies) step up to the plate and take it to the next level?

 

Yes, you made an effort with the stockings but it sounds like that was towards the beginning of your R. See, your H was testing out the waters bringing up the stockings (to see how “into it” you were). And (unfortunately for him) the reception he got was lukewarm - sounds like you did it for him and not because you liked it (you even said you started to resent it).

 

So it’s no wonder he never mentioned anything else regarding his fantasies.

 

If you want to push the envelope, imagine this: instead of grudgingly putting on stockings/lingerie and having sex, get decked out for him and whisper in his ear “Please tie me up” while placing a silk scarf in his hand. That's a start. See what I mean about opening up the sexual arena? Can you see yourself doing that?

 

I discussed these issues many times, and yet he never ever mentioned that he wanted me to call him master or sir. He never even tried to let me in on that side of things. Even now, when all is out in the open, he admitted that he wished he had. He felt ashamed of himself, and, to quote him, "respected me too much" to bring me into that world.

 

You say you “discussed it” but talking isn’t DOING. Asking him “what’s wrong” or “what do you want” isn’t the same as SHOWING him you’re open to something different than vanilla. You were content in doing what you’ve always done. There’s nothing wrong with vanilla – especially if you're with a vanilla man. But you're not. So how was he supposed to say “I want you to call me master” when you’re being Eh about putting on STOCKINGS?

 

And BTW, he has no reason to feel ashamed. People are different and everyone's kinks are different. He can’t help what turns him on.

 

And “respecting you too much” to introduce you to the world of BDSM was a line to make you feel better (because cheating IS NOT a sign of respect) and because he was too (afraid? ashamed? ambivalent?) about sharing with you his REAL needs.

 

And that begets the question: Why? Why was he so afraid/ashamed/ambivalent about discussing fantasies with you? What’s going on in terms of communication with the two of you? Somewhere along the way it must have broken down for things to get to where they are. This is something to bring up in MC.

 

Once he explored more, and became accepted, it was too late. His worlds were divided, and was fairly content with it all. Once the whole kids thing began to happen, my sex drive, which in most conversations of 3-4 times a week is 'normal', absolutely plummeted, and that sucked for both of us. The 3rd go around with an accidental pregnancy was the turning point for him, and it was then that he met this woman. It was then that he made the poor decision to carry on this fantasy and fall in love with her.

 

Wait, are you telling me that the BDSM stuff happened BEFORE the kids arrived?

 

And I'm not sure if your sex drive plummeting "sucked for both of us" is an accurate statement. I'm sure it SUCKED A LOT WORSE for your H. It must not have suck too much for you because it didn't motivate you enough to change it.

 

I guess I'm curious to know what you're willing to do NOW. Do you think you can get into BDSM and enjoy it as well? Because I really think somebody is going to be unhappy if the marriage continues. Whether it’s your H (because he has to deny what he’s “into”) or you (because you’re only doing it to preserve the marriage). In order to keep him happy and keep yourself happy, the two of you are going to have to come up with some sort of sexual compromise.

[TaraMaiden]

lbm74, that's just a very long way of saying

"I'm right, you're wrong. Even though you're IN the situation, and I'm just throwing in a complete hypothesis, based purely on a tiny glimmer seen through the miniature window you've opened on your marriage."

 

Take what you need from this discussion, that is useful and constructive to you, no matter who posts, no matter what their opinion.

 

There may well be some truth in what others are putting forward.

It's very probably there.

 

It's just unfortunate that you'll have to trawl through an awful lot of self-opinionated BS to find it.....

[lbm74]

LBM, I’m not “being protective” of your H. If you're willing to listen, I do think I know where he’s coming from and I will try to give you a perspective other than your own.

 

My first clue that the two of your aren't on the same page regarding sex (and maybe never were) is the fact that you said "All we DID was experiment". Did. Past tense. You didn't say "All we DO is experiment".

 

And then you said "by senior year I knew what he liked". Lets face it – 18 year old sex is exciting AS IS, just because you’re 18. And just because you "had sex everywhere” 18 years ago (to a man who's currently into BDSM) is NOT THAT EXCITING. I'm sorry to break this to you but location is just a location and BDSM isn’t exhibitionism and 18 years ago is almost 2 decades in the past. BDSM is a whole different mindset of role playing and exploration.

 

Let me ask you this - did you keep "experimenting" with your H as the years went by? Did you bring anything new to the table to titillate him? As we get older a lot of us need a little bit more stimulation instead of the same-old same-old. Don’t think your H is so “out there” just because he gets a kick out of BDSM. He’s not that unusual.

 

 

 

You don’t know the whole story. You can take it for what it’s worth but – where there’s smoke there’s fire. What he has TOLD YOU is “very tame”. I would not be surprised to find out he’s into A LOT more than you think. The question is, are you ready to find out? Are you willing to (IF or WHEN he lets you in on his fantasies) step up to the plate and take it to the next level?

 

Yes, you made an effort with the stockings but it sounds like that was towards the beginning of your R. See, your H was testing out the waters bringing up the stockings (to see how “into it” you were). And (unfortunately for him) the reception he got was lukewarm - sounds like you did it for him and not because you liked it (you even said you started to resent it).

 

So it’s no wonder he never mentioned anything else regarding his fantasies.

 

If you want to push the envelope, imagine this: instead of grudgingly putting on stockings/lingerie and having sex, get decked out for him and whisper in his ear “Please tie me up” while placing a silk scarf in his hand. That's a start. See what I mean about opening up the sexual arena? Can you see yourself doing that?

 

 

 

You say you “discussed it” but talking isn’t DOING. Asking him “what’s wrong” or “what do you want” isn’t the same as SHOWING him you’re open to something different than vanilla. You were content in doing what you’ve always done. There’s nothing wrong with vanilla – especially if you're with a vanilla man. But you're not. So how was he supposed to say “I want you to call me master” when you’re being Eh about putting on STOCKINGS?

 

And BTW, he has no reason to feel ashamed. People are different and everyone's kinks are different. He can’t help what turns him on.

 

And “respecting you too much” to introduce you to the world of BDSM was a line to make you feel better (because cheating IS NOT a sign of respect) and because he was too (afraid? ashamed? ambivalent?) about sharing with you his REAL needs.

 

And that begets the question: Why? Why was he so afraid/ashamed/ambivalent about discussing fantasies with you? What’s going on in terms of communication with the two of you? Somewhere along the way it must have broken down for things to get to where they are. This is something to bring up in MC.

 

 

 

Wait, are you telling me that the BDSM stuff happened BEFORE the kids arrived?

 

And I'm not sure if your sex drive plummeting "sucked for both of us" is an accurate statement. I'm sure it SUCKED A LOT WORSE for your H. It must not have suck too much for you because it didn't motivate you enough to change it.

 

I guess I'm curious to know what you're willing to do NOW. Do you think you can get into BDSM and enjoy it as well? Because I really think somebody is going to be unhappy if the marriage continues. Whether it’s your H (because he has to deny what he’s “into”) or you (because you’re only doing it to preserve the marriage). In order to keep him happy and keep yourself happy, the two of you are going to have to come up with some sort of sexual compromise.

 

Lily,

I just wrote a huge detailed response that I wrote from the very core of my being, and the session logged me out, and I was unable to retrieve my post. I cannot re-write it now, for time purposes, but also because I am mentally spent!! I'll try again later, please check in asI think you can help me.

[Els]

I guess I'm curious to know what you're willing to do NOW. Do you think you can get into BDSM and enjoy it as well? Because I really think somebody is going to be unhappy if the marriage continues. Whether it’s your H (because he has to deny what he’s “into”) or you (because you’re only doing it to preserve the marriage). In order to keep him happy and keep yourself happy, the two of you are going to have to come up with some sort of sexual compromise.

 

While there are probably a hundred other things wrong with the current scenario, this is the punchline, and this is what needs to be addressed.

 

OP, I just want to add that she suggested him being able to keep both of you because that's an acceptable practice in the M/s community, although not all of them. The 'Master' can have as many submissives as he likes as long as he can attend to all of their needs, much like a true Master and a harem of slaves. Also, sadly, affairs within a marriage because one party could not have their BDSM cravings satisfied by their spouse are not frowned upon as much as they could be. It's a whole different world out there... and if he truly is into all that and not just having a few kinks, the principles of that world are what governs him, not that of American relationship etiquette (which really is what this forum is mainly about). I would encourage you to read all that, go to their forums and see, before making any decisions.

 

Note that I am NOT blaming his affair on you. But you're the only one here whom I can advise, so me going on about what HE should have done or could do is pointless.

[TaraMaiden]

Lily,

I just wrote a huge detailed response that I wrote from the very core of my being, and the session logged me out, and I was unable to retrieve my post. I cannot re-write it now, for time purposes, but also because I am mentally spent!! I'll try again later, please check in asI think you can help me.

 

In that case I withdraw my previous smart-dick remark about BS and apologise unreservedly if it caused offence.

 

Hopefully it will be forgiven.

[lbm74]

LBM, I’m not “being protective” of your H. If you're willing to listen, I do think I know where he’s coming from and I will try to give you a perspective other than your own.

 

My first clue that the two of your aren't on the same page regarding sex (and maybe never were) is the fact that you said "All we DID was experiment". Did. Past tense. You didn't say "All we DO is experiment".

 

And then you said "by senior year I knew what he liked". Lets face it – 18 year old sex is exciting AS IS, just because you’re 18. And just because you "had sex everywhere” 18 years ago (to a man who's currently into BDSM) is NOT THAT EXCITING. I'm sorry to break this to you but location is just a location and BDSM isn’t exhibitionism and 18 years ago is almost 2 decades in the past. BDSM is a whole different mindset of role playing and exploration.

 

Let me ask you this - did you keep "experimenting" with your H as the years went by? Did you bring anything new to the table to titillate him? As we get older a lot of us need a little bit more stimulation instead of the same-old same-old. Don’t think your H is so “out there” just because he gets a kick out of BDSM. He’s not that unusual.

 

 

 

You don’t know the whole story. You can take it for what it’s worth but – where there’s smoke there’s fire. What he has TOLD YOU is “very tame”. I would not be surprised to find out he’s into A LOT more than you think. The question is, are you ready to find out? Are you willing to (IF or WHEN he lets you in on his fantasies) step up to the plate and take it to the next level?

 

Yes, you made an effort with the stockings but it sounds like that was towards the beginning of your R. See, your H was testing out the waters bringing up the stockings (to see how “into it” you were). And (unfortunately for him) the reception he got was lukewarm - sounds like you did it for him and not because you liked it (you even said you started to resent it).

 

So it’s no wonder he never mentioned anything else regarding his fantasies.

 

If you want to push the envelope, imagine this: instead of grudgingly putting on stockings/lingerie and having sex, get decked out for him and whisper in his ear “Please tie me up” while placing a silk scarf in his hand. That's a start. See what I mean about opening up the sexual arena? Can you see yourself doing that?

 

 

 

You say you “discussed it” but talking isn’t DOING. Asking him “what’s wrong” or “what do you want” isn’t the same as SHOWING him you’re open to something different than vanilla. You were content in doing what you’ve always done. There’s nothing wrong with vanilla – especially if you're with a vanilla man. But you're not. So how was he supposed to say “I want you to call me master” when you’re being Eh about putting on STOCKINGS?

 

And BTW, he has no reason to feel ashamed. People are different and everyone's kinks are different. He can’t help what turns him on.

 

And “respecting you too much” to introduce you to the world of BDSM was a line to make you feel better (because cheating IS NOT a sign of respect) and because he was too (afraid? ashamed? ambivalent?) about sharing with you his REAL needs.

 

And that begets the question: Why? Why was he so afraid/ashamed/ambivalent about discussing fantasies with you? What’s going on in terms of communication with the two of you? Somewhere along the way it must have broken down for things to get to where they are. This is something to bring up in MC.

 

 

 

Wait, are you telling me that the BDSM stuff happened BEFORE the kids arrived?

 

And I'm not sure if your sex drive plummeting "sucked for both of us" is an accurate statement. I'm sure it SUCKED A LOT WORSE for your H. It must not have suck too much for you because it didn't motivate you enough to change it.

 

I guess I'm curious to know what you're willing to do NOW. Do you think you can get into BDSM and enjoy it as well? Because I really think somebody is going to be unhappy if the marriage continues. Whether it’s your H (because he has to deny what he’s “into”) or you (because you’re only doing it to preserve the marriage). In order to keep him happy and keep yourself happy, the two of you are going to have to come up with some sort of sexual compromise.

 

Ok Lily, let me try this again. I need to give you a little background on me first. Grew up in a small family, no (major) issues, parents still married, fab sister. Perhaps an actual "functional" family. I had little self esteem growing up due to being skinny, so no boys looked twice at me as I looked like a boy. At 18 I finally looked somewhat feminine, had my first bf-21 yo and got me to have sex with him. Broke up before I went off to college, and then met my now H. He was a virgin, no real prior gf. He pined for me, threw himself at me, and after becoming great friends, only then did I fall for him. Once the awkward sex was over, was when we started having more fun and interesting sex. And yes, at 18-22 (all of college) the butterflies and hormones are always there. But even then his sex drive was higher than mine, and I assumed it was the testosterone, and he would level out over the years. By senior year me, the one who covered herskinny self up at 18 was finally wearing skirts above the knee (oooh!) and tight and slightly revealing tops (double oooh!) I switched from nylons to stockings, and even tried garters, and then came the teddies, and other lingerie. We would shop together, and it was fun. After college we stayed together, and sex was still fun because it was less frequent, and we both lived at home. I found him getting restless, and I was becoming a bit bored with the whole lingerie routine. So when I went off to grad school, I thought it was a good opportunity for us to separate for a while, and be with others before we fully committed to each other. This was devastating to him, and all he did was try to win me back. hundreds of love letters later, and 2 yrs passing of us on and off I began dating a guy that was a friend of a mutual couple of ours. This crushed him. He pretty much sabotaged my relationship with that guy by interfering. By the end of grad school, he really began saying all the right things, and I realized that he truly was my best friend, and I couldn't live without him. During these two years for him, however, he was probably depressed, and dating no one. So he began to go online. I guess he just surfed things that interested him, and eventually got onto alt.com. This is where he discovered his likes, and this is when he became a Master. He was monogymous (Elswyth) and had about a total of 3-4 subs over 6-7 years. He never wanted to meet any of them, he was totally honest with all of them about his intentions (cybersex only, no love, no physicality). This worked well for him, especially since I was not really around. When we got back together, it was at that point that we talked about commitment, and marriage. What he didn't tell me was all of his bdsm interests, and I thought i was getting the same old bf back, soon to be my fiance. It took him over a year to propose, which I know now, was because he was trying to decide if he wanted to keep things vanilla with me, introduce me to his new world, or find someone else all together with his same libido and bdsm qualities. He claims he loved me dearly, never wanted to let me go again, and didn't want to "rock the boat." He admits now that he was still ashamed of his bdsm interets, as you know, people who don't understand think it is totally taboo, with negative perceptions. And so he kept it to himself, and chose the option of vanilla wife, bdsm online sub. Separate. He admits he was a coward, and that he should have told me before we were married. I have asked him why he didn't let me in, did I portray a disgust or disinterest in such things unknowingly? No, he said exactly what you inferred; ashamed and afraid.

 

We are both sad about that decision.

 

Our first 3 years of marriage were pretty dull sexually, but I have to admit, from the lifestyle and lack of exposure to anything "out of the box" sexually, I didn't have "titillating" thoughts about spicing up the marriage. They just didn't exist in my head. At most I would read cosmo for tips. Not what he was looking for. Then the whole kids thing began to happen, and sex is so different in that realm-as I have already posted. Obviously that did not help matters. Eventually about 1 1/2 years ago he had me watch a movie-secretary. I thought it was good, and interesting. Yes it turned me on as it was different, not a porn, and well made. Well, apparently I didn't take the hint. That is his perfect bdsm scenario.

 

Since the discovery of his EA, (this is for you too elswyth) I have gone on alt.com (although he no longer like sthat site), as well as other sites (something like the journey to submission?) And learned a TON. We have sat down beside each other with a glass of wine as I filled out a profile with what I would be willing/ not willing to do in bdsm, and he was pleasantly surprised.

I just won't do it in any way shape or form until he gives up the OW and gives all of himself to me. So do I know if I will like it? I don't know.. I find some of it exciting and some scary. My biggest issue is going to be following his command, and calling him Master or Sir. This feels belittling to me. But I am hoping that it is because I have been wronged, and do not want to put him on a pedastal like that. I am not a Domme, but I feel he shouild be calling me Madame or Lady!!

Does this help?

I do look forward to your advice.

[Els]

I believe, from reading your post, that you shouldn't go into the dominance aspect of it (Master/Sir, etc) until your relationship has healed past the affair and you are emotionally ready. That sort of thing takes a LOT of trust in the relationship, it's different from a little bondage or spanking. If you don't feel like it now, you shouldn't do it. Opening up more sexually and providing a possible door to further developments should suffice for him.

[LilyBart]

Ok Lily, let me try this again. I need to give you a little background on me first. Grew up in a small family, no (major) issues, parents still married, fab sister. Perhaps an actual "functional" family. I had little self esteem growing up due to being skinny, so no boys looked twice at me as I looked like a boy. At 18 I finally looked somewhat feminine, had my first bf-21 yo and got me to have sex with him. Broke up before I went off to college, and then met my now H.

He was a virgin, no real prior gf. He pined for me, threw himself at me, and after becoming great friends, only then did I fall for him. Once the awkward sex was over, was when we started having more fun and interesting sex. And yes, at 18-22 (all of college) the butterflies and hormones are always there. But even then his sex drive was higher than mine, and I assumed it was the testosterone, and he would level out over the years.

By senior year me, the one who covered herskinny self up at 18 was finally wearing skirts above the knee (oooh!) and tight and slightly revealing tops (double oooh!) I switched from nylons to stockings, and even tried garters, and then came the teddies, and other lingerie. We would shop together, and it was fun. After college we stayed together, and sex was still fun because it was less frequent, and we both lived at home. I found him getting restless, and I was becoming a bit bored with the whole lingerie routine.

So when I went off to grad school, I thought it was a good opportunity for us to separate for a while, and be with others before we fully committed to each other. This was devastating to him, and all he did was try to win me back. hundreds of love letters later, and 2 yrs passing of us on and off I began dating a guy that was a friend of a mutual couple of ours. This crushed him. He pretty much sabotaged my relationship with that guy by interfering.

By the end of grad school, he really began saying all the right things, and I realized that he truly was my best friend, and I couldn't live without him. During these two years for him, however, he was probably depressed, and dating no one. So he began to go online.

I guess he just surfed things that interested him, and eventually got onto alt.com. This is where he discovered his likes, and this is when he became a Master. He was monogymous (Elswyth) and had about a total of 3-4 subs over 6-7 years. He never wanted to meet any of them, he was totally honest with all of them about his intentions (cybersex only, no love, no physicality).

This worked well for him, especially since I was not really around. When we got back together, it was at that point that we talked about commitment, and marriage. What he didn't tell me was all of his bdsm interests, and I thought i was getting the same old bf back, soon to be my fiance.

It took him over a year to propose, which I know now, was because he was trying to decide if he wanted to keep things vanilla with me, introduce me to his new world, or find someone else all together with his same libido and bdsm qualities. He claims he loved me dearly, never wanted to let me go again, and didn't want to "rock the boat."

He admits now that he was still ashamed of his bdsm interets, as you know, people who don't understand think it is totally taboo, with negative perceptions. And so he kept it to himself, and chose the option of vanilla wife, bdsm online sub. Separate. He admits he was a coward, and that he should have told me before we were married. I have asked him why he didn't let me in, did I portray a disgust or disinterest in such things unknowingly? No, he said exactly what you inferred; ashamed and afraid.

We are both sad about that decision.

Our first 3 years of marriage were pretty dull sexually, but I have to admit, from the lifestyle and lack of exposure to anything "out of the box" sexually, I didn't have "titillating" thoughts about spicing up the marriage. They just didn't exist in my head. At most I would read cosmo for tips. Not what he was looking for.

Then the whole kids thing began to happen, and sex is so different in that realm-as I have already posted. Obviously that did not help matters.

Eventually about 1 1/2 years ago he had me watch a movie-secretary. I thought it was good, and interesting. Yes it turned me on as it was different, not a porn, and well made. Well, apparently I didn't take the hint. That is his perfect bdsm scenario.

Since the discovery of his EA, (this is for you too elswyth) I have gone on alt.com (although he no longer like sthat site), as well as other sites (something like the journey to submission?) And learned a TON. We have sat down beside each other with a glass of wine as I filled out a profile with what I would be willing/ not willing to do in bdsm, and he was pleasantly surprised.

I just won't do it in any way shape or form until he gives up the OW and gives all of himself to me. So do I know if I will like it? I don't know.. I find some of it exciting and some scary. My biggest issue is going to be following his command, and calling him Master or Sir. This feels belittling to me. But I am hoping that it is because I have been wronged, and do not want to put him on a pedastal like that. I am not a Domme, but I feel he shouild be calling me Madame or Lady!!

Does this help?

I do look forward to your advice.

 

LBM - sorry I couldn't respond sooner. Thanks for taking the time to write this all out. It shows me how much you love your H and how much you want to make your M work. I am really cheering for you and I hope your H feels as strongly as you do. If he does, I have no doubt that eventually the two of you will be able to get your M back on track (with some added spice!).

 

But I agree with Elswyth - you shouldn’t start exploring BDSM until there is a firm foundation of trust back in your M. She is right about that. In order to explore the different aspects of BDSM, you need to really feel SAFE with the person you’re with. Since you’ve already looked into it, I’m sure you know all about “safe words” and such - but all that will have to come after you knit together your M.

 

I took a look at the thread you posted on the OW/OM site. The whole story about the OW's illness/surrogate child thing (to me) sounds kinda nutty….but if it’s true and it’s tangled in with the EA/BDSM and your H can‘t seem to let it go…..you have a lot of work ahead of you. There seems to be so many layers that you’re dealing with at the same time: your H’s BDSM interest, your H’s EA and getting your M back on track.

 

I'm not sure what kind of advice you were looking for (specific questions might be helpful) but I will say this: fantasies are a powerful thing and I think the mind is the biggest sexual organ.

 

Good luck!

　

　

　

　

　

　

[Owl]

Good post, Lilybart.

 

I agree with you and Elswyth...and I'd add in the additional thought that you should never agree to "do" anything that you're not interested/comfortable/willingly participating in.

 

If this aspect intrigues/interests you, and you're willing to give it a shot, great!!!

 

If you're ONLY willing to give it a shot because you view this as the only way to keep your H, I'd seriously recommend you reconsider your options. This kind of thing is NOT something that you go into with that kind of intentions/plans.

 

Just my thought. Nothing wrong with it if it's what you want to try.

[lbm74]

Good post, Lilybart.

 

I agree with you and Elswyth...and I'd add in the additional thought that you should never agree to "do" anything that you're not interested/comfortable/willingly participating in.

 

If this aspect intrigues/interests you, and you're willing to give it a shot, great!!!

 

If you're ONLY willing to give it a shot because you view this as the only way to keep your H, I'd seriously recommend you reconsider your options. This kind of thing is NOT something that you go into with that kind of intentions/plans.

 

Just my thought. Nothing wrong with it if it's what you want to try.

 

I love my H. I want us to be happy together. So if we decide to try and make things work, then yes, that would be the point when I would TRY things. Am I inherently interested, no. I will only try what I think I might be interested in. Currently it does not make me comfortable, but I am willing should the time come, to experiment -slowly. Would I be interested in this if my H wasn't, no. Am I doing it just to keep him, no. I am willing to compromise, and so is he. So to me it is worth a shot.

I hope that is the proper frame of mind to approach this!

[BlackLovely]

I believe you should re-read my original post again as I never stated a single thing you accuse me of ..not one.

 

I have not stated it was "the op`s fault" her husband had an affair nor have a stated that anyone should be submissive to anyone else`s sexuality.

 

I never stated that anyone should be anyone`s "sex toy"

 

You yourself have made quite a few generalizations which are patently untrue.

 

I know numerous women whose sex drives actually increased during pregnancies and I know many who have used their pregnancies as an excuse to avoid intimacy.

I am a man and I`m trying to give the OP some idea of where her husbands obviously messed up head might be and why.

 

I`ve never seen a forum with so much projection and defensiveness as this one.

 

Chill out.

 

 

I think it's incredibly arrogant for a man to think he understands what a woman goes through. I get very angry, when men say that female troubles are "excuses". I'll never forget the day a man told me that "pregnancy isn't that hard..." :laugh: I have never been pregnant (knock wood!), but I can tell it can be quite awful in many ways. I listen to all the horror stories that mothers tell.

[BUENG1]

I think it's incredibly arrogant for a man to think he understands what a woman goes through

 

I have never been pregnant

 

Seems like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[TaraMaiden]

linwood, My libido went into overdrive with my first pregnancy, and completely flattened and disappeared with my second.

I had girls, both times, and they were within a couple of ounces in weight, of one another, and a couple of inches in length. So the two pregnancies were extremely similar, and both labour and births extremely easy.

 

So I cannot explain what the hell happened to make me so different in my approach to sex....

I found it extremely disconcerting.

 

Both times!