She's Had Me In The Friend Zone For Over A Year Now

[mickleb]

I believe the OP hasn't been here very long. He will learn.

 

As for the other debate, isn't it all about being honest with yourself and others? Anyway, that's for another thread, surely? (And there are many on this forum that debate the Nice Guy issue.)

 

OP - I think the consensus is overwhelming..

 

x

[Green]

yes we do exist and we always seem to finish last...

 

Some of us (like me) are genuinely nice guys, not because we have some secret hidden agenda, not because we are incapable of being arrogant POS, but because we are genuinely half decent people who really are nice and despite what women say I am actually beginning to believe that they truly do want to be treated like crap...

 

So I guess that's what I am gonna do...

 

Sorry slightly off topic post there

 

NO "Nice Guys" don't exist in the cliche "always finish last" sense. This is another self imposed reality driven by the exact same dilusions that drive a person to create the "friendzone" as a description of what is going on.

 

If you are a genuinely nice guy why do you think you have finished last? Do you think you deserve some kind of reward for thinking you're nice and putting down people using POS and admitting that you have begun to believe women want to be treated like crap...

 

You need to step into reality and stop using thought ending descriptions like "nice guy" and "friendzone" to evaluate life.

 

 

Women have guys approaching them all the time. It's their job to weed through the suckers, nice guys, idiots, low-lifes, drug dealers, rapists, etc. and find the guy that is strong, firm, a leader but still sensitive when the time calls for it. That's what most women want -- and they also want a bit of a challenge. They don't want a guy hanging around right away like a puppy dog. That's not attractive at all. It's the same thing for guys. We do like challenge, too -- but we get that all the time.

 

I think all women do is ask themselves ARE THEY ATTRACTED. Obviously if the definition of "nice guy" is some one who is unattractive to women then there you have it.

 

I think people just need to be themselves. If you had a friend who had ZERO personality and was basicaly just a yes man then he probably wouldn't be your best friend... there would be no good conversation, and no give and take. Luckily you get to be friends with more then one person. Most romantic relationships atleast have a goal of exclusivity. And even if that goal of exclusivity only lasts a short time a girl is going to be less likely to settle for mr FAKE who is to afraid to be himself.

 

Why humans ever got it in their heads that being a FAKE nobody is the best way to be I will never know. Bottom line be the confident version of yourself who is NOT AFRAID OF REJECTION.

 

It's basic social dynamics -- the more unavailable and aloof you are at first, the more you raise your perceived worth in HER eyes. That's when a guy is mysterious and interesting. Combine that with some cocky humor and some joking around with sexual innuendos and you have a guy that gets ass all the time.

 

I think its about respect for yourself and other people. Make that person earn your time and energy the same way you are going to have to earn theirs.

 

I also think people confuse FUN with HUMOR. Basicaly you really don't have to have cocky humor to have a laughing good time with a girl. Most women don't have great senses of humor from mans prospective any way.

 

Nice guys, on the other hand, think that by talking to a woman all the time and going shopping with her and telling her his dreams and ambitions -- well, a very small percentage of women (usually fat women) will find that endearing but, for the most part, most women will look at that guy as just another one of her circle of friends. She'll look at that guy like a brother, like a good friend that she can pick out Revlon products with while he stands there wondering for the one millionth time, "will today be the day she suddenly sees how great I am?"

 

"Nice guys" just feels like some term to describe a frustrated man who thinks he is nice and does bad with women. For a guy to call himself a "nice guy" and use that as a self fufilling prophecy of why he can't form lasting romantic relationships just seem pointless and counterintuitive.

 

I think its common sense that if you approach a woman like you are this safe dickless guy and hope that being polite and having friendly conversation entitles you to date her you are dilusional.

 

Men take advantage of women in much worse ways. Its called the "I have sex with you but you are not my gf zone." this is also self imposed and its all in the power of the person to walk away and not put it all on the oposite gender.

 

No, it doesn't happen like that. It's like being nice in poker. Hey, let me show you my hole cards -- I really like you! Well, you just ruined the entire game and now it's not interesting or suspenseful any longer. For the most part, most guys don't get this basic concept. I fell victim to this in high school. I was "BFFs" with this girl and we did EVERYTHING together. I went over her house, her parents loved me, etc. In fact, her parents wanted me to marry this girl and when her Russian father joked around with her about it, she would just say, "Oh dad, DB's like a brother to me."

 

I took this girl to fancy restaurants, musicals, art museums, baseball games, shopping malls -- everywhere. The only time I ever got a kiss from this girl on the lips was when we were driving out of Baltimore and she was drunk. Then she started crying halfway home and when I pulled over, she was sobbing and said, "why can't I find a guy like you?" I kept thinking, "HELLO?!"

 

I fell victim to MYSELF and it was that realization that saved me from the life I lived High School through College. I graduated college with out ever having even a kiss. But that summer I just said F*ck it and asked out a pretty girl I liked. We dated for a while and things went well. After she dumped me I was worried I would never find a girl. BUt I did and with EASE. Why? Because I had learned that women are just people and that I should just face rejection and be myself with confidence. I learned that there is nothing wrong with showing your sexual desire and that IT HELPS TO KISS and TOUCH ect. I learned that I NEEDED TO MAKE IT HAPPEN and NOT TO BE AFRAID.

 

BOttom line life is a journey not a destination. You need to enjoy the here and NOW. When you were younger you should should have RISKED losing that girl and getting REJECTED by not playing it safe and being yourself and SHOWING YOUR feelings through BIG actions like grabbing her and KISSING HER when she was SOBER.

 

You can't just sit there and let a girl talk about how she wants to find other guys. Would you sit there and listen to your friend tell you about how they are looking for people to invite to their great party and not be OPENLY insulted if you were not on the list.

 

You have to KISS the girl.

 

So yes, this is a very real concept and guys that don't understand the whole passive-aggressive nice guy and strong alpha man leader with boundaries will continue to screw drunk fat chicks and have set back after set back.

 

I argue that the concept of "ALPHA" males and "BETA" males is also a useless tool made from inacurate observations of ANIMALS NOT HUMANS.

 

Bottom line GO AFTER WHAT YOU WANT IN LIFE. DON'T HALF ASS IT for example FACE REJECTION put it ALL ON THE LINE. AND ENJOY YOURSELF it isn't LIFE OR DEATH there are so many women and just becasue a women rejects you one day doesn't mean she will always say no.

 

This is how the world works. Feel free to disagree with me, but you will be wrong. I speak from years of experience with women and how they operate. They don't want a nice-guy, they want a man. They want a man to lead them and make them feel secure and happy -- not a prick, mind you, but a guy who stands firm when times call for it.

 

I feel women want a man who respects themselves and by way of respect for themself they have respect for others.

 

All a nice guy means for me is a guy who feels sorry for himself and feels entitled to put other people down and women down for not accepting him.

 

Now flame on! I know a lot of people are going to really hate this post but the few that read it and understand it will be doing themselves a huge favor -- especially if they're a ""nice guy."

 

"nice guys" have to realize that life isn't fair and no good deed goes unpunished and get over it.

 

Really most of them don't enjoy their date and then for some reason expect the woman to enjoy it. Makes no sense really.

 

Calling yourself a "nice guy" when it come to dating is as useless as refering to yourself as a "hero" when dating and blaming that for all your problems.

 

Friend zone doesn't exist in the sense of some trap you need to get in or out of...

 

 

If a man says I'm more like a friend to him, I am not in some zone that leaves me feeling trapped within its boundaries...as Green states: It is a self enforced reality.

 

That isn't my reality. If you don't like me romantically...okay cool. Why do I need to establish and dwell on it as some formal zone for myself? The more you focus on the "friend zone" as this thing...the more of a zone/trap and palpable thing it becomes to you.

 

If someone doesn't like you romantically...keep it moving, someone else does. There is no need to call it a zone and make it into this "thing". If I don't get a job, I am not in the unemployed zone...I am not gonna sit outside the company running errands hoping they give me a job one day lol. I simply go out and find another one. I know it is not some unemployment zone, but simply, one thing that didn't work out.

 

I guarantee all those (like our friend here who made the trhread) lamenting over being in the friend zone are the only ones who constructed that trap for themselvesm like a 2x4 cage they built on their own and decided to pace around in for years, looking outside at this other person they believed to have put them there...hoping they will one day free them....it's funny when you think of it

 

Yes...metaphors and metaphorically speaking can be effective however, it also can be very disempowering as the words we use construct our reality. Your perception really is your reality. So if you choose to think of the friend zone as some nice guy trap...then "As a man thinketh so is he". Real talk!

 

Now this was a great post

[spriggig]

Nice guys don't exist either yet another example of a self enforced reality.

 

Since OP is still absent, I'd like to hear more about this.

[Green]

Since OP is still absent, I'd like to hear more about this.

 

Well I wouldn't be shocked if the OP also considers himself a "nice guy" in the meaning of I'm nice so women don't generaly like me because they like guys who arn't nice and I am.

 

I think "Friend Zone" and "Nice guy" are closely related self made self enforce thought ending simple USELESS ways of analyzing a situation.

 

Both terms "Nice Guy" and "friendzone" are about scapegoating responsibility away from one person and puting it on the woman. Why can't she just date me I'm nice!? Why won't she just date me I've always been there as a friend!?

 

when did any one ever teach you that girls pick a guy based on how nice his mom and friends or the girls rejecting him say he is.

 

Its like if you ask a nice guy who thinks they are nice what will they say. They will say I think I am nice because My mom and friends and the girls who reject me say I am... SO WHAT how does that entitle you to anyting. WTF does nice even mean... That you don't say F*CK you on the first date... that you were polite... like opening a door entitles you to a relatonship with some one....

 

Same goes with the friend zone. No one ever told you that being a good friend to some one is romantic or sexy. Its all about a feeling of entitlement and removing responsibility for ones actions from onself.

 

Thats why I come in and say ITS NOT REAL. OPEN YOUR EYES YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF.

[smk]

Green - fair play after reading you post I agree win what you are saying, however I don't believe that because I am a "nice guy" I am entitled to getting a date - what I did mean however is though IME I have found that most times women prefer the whole bad boy attitude as opposed to someone beige courteous. I grew up in a house with 2 older sisters and from a young age have always been taught to e polite, respectful and courteous.

 

Yes I do set boundaries and when they are crossed I do enforce my beliefs, I do stand up for what my beliefs are. I am not and don't portray an image of being needy, and basically jump at whatever my ex said - yes I can be flexible at times and easy going about certain things...

 

But as I said as a general consensus "nice guys" do get pushed aside in favour of not "nice guys"... I don't believe in the "friendzone" if I like a girl I make it clear what my feelings are, I won't go in there hoping to turn the situation around, and vice versa I do have a couple of purely platonic female friends...

 

I think it comes to finding that right balance between being a "nice guy" and being a not "nice guy" - it's a debate that could go on forever, and you do make a valid point as does DB

[Green]

I think it comes to finding that right balance between being a "nice guy" and being a not "nice guy" - it's a debate that could go on forever, and you do make a valid point as does DB

 

I just think that "nice" means nothing so it shouldn't be used.

 

The balance people need to find in there life is they need to BE THEMSELVES... the BEST VERSION of themselves that they can be. That means living life with Respect, and passion, and enjoyment. Being genuine. What does it matter if you do well with women or not that is not something a genuine person should worry or care about. And in the end a person who doesn't CARE or BASE HIS WORTH on what a WOMAN thinks of him is a MAN that women will find attractive.

[smk]

I just think that "nice" means nothing so it shouldn't be used.

 

The balance people need to find in there life is they need to BE THEMSELVES... the BEST VERSION of themselves that they can be. That means living life with Respect, and passion, and enjoyment. Being genuine. What does it matter if you do well with women or not that is not something a genuine person should worry or care about. And in the end a person who doesn't CARE or BASE HIS WORTH on what a WOMAN thinks of him is a MAN that women will find attractive.

 

That does sum it up pretty much perfectly.

 

I think it comes down to just being happy with yourself and being genuine... I guess what you have written is as I said earlier that balance between what you are conveying and what DB was saying...

[TG4MJ]

Well I guess I get it now guys. You are all right. The friend zone isn't something you get stuck in, it's something you volunteer for. I decided to do even more research on the concept and that is the common theme that keeps on popping up, and I guess I now get it. My eyes are sincerely open. It finally dawned on me that this girl is used to guys, boyfriend or otherwise, always saying "yes" to her. Well come Monday she's in for a rude awakening. I'm basically going to walk away from her and say that I can't continue to be a fake friend to her, and that she seems to be ready to get back into the dating scene and when she does, I don't really feel like hanging out for that. Best case scenario, she'll learn what it's like for the guy to walk away from her and might even make her think twice before pulling this s*** with another guy. So, yeah, thanks I guess. Slamming me and empowering me in one fell swoop, not bad guys . Appreciate it.

[bonpaw2008]

Everyone has made really interesting points here, but it is all about attraction and wanting. If you are a friend, and she has told you that you are never going to hit that, walk away with some pride. If you are hanging out with this girl solely to get with her then you are being fake and doing it for all the wrong reasons.

 

The ex-husband one time told me his analogy about men and women being friends. Women look at those male friends like a d1ck behind glass. In case of sexual emergency, you can break the glass always made me laugh

[TG4MJ]

Hey quick question by the way, since you guys are pretty slick about this stuff, I just want to ask you all something just for future references, but whenever I express disappointment about her not wanting to go out on a proper date with me she gets defensive and pouty and turns it around on me, accusing me of being "mean" for not liking her as a friend, yet when I talk to other girls she makes me feel guilty about it and nitpicks (sp?) about things she doesn't like about the other girl I happen to be talking to. So, what's up with that ? I mean I figure she doesn't see me as a dating option, so why the attitude when I talk to other women ?

 

Well on a better note my ex says that she's willing to give me a second chance so I think that it's a win win situation, I mean if I tell her that I'm cutting her loose and want to reconsile with the ex she'll either care less and reuniting with the ex will help me put the pieces back together or she'll feel guilty it came to this and who knows, maybe she'll reconsider, come monday well see..........

[carhill]

whenever I express disappointment about her not wanting to go out on a proper date with me she gets defensive and pouty and turns it around on me, accusing me of being "mean" for not liking her as a friend, yet when I talk to other girls she makes me feel guilty about it and nitpicks (sp?) about things she doesn't like about the other girl I happen to be talking to. So, what's up with that ? I mean I figure she doesn't see me as a dating option, so why the attitude when I talk to other women ?

 

Hoovers despise orbiters orbiting another planet and will manipulate gravity to prevent it.

 

Translation: She wants your undivided attention and validation and despises any of that going to another woman. It's the definition of unhealthy

[DenverBachelor]

Hey quick question by the way, since you guys are pretty slick about this stuff, I just want to ask you all something just for future references, but whenever I express disappointment about her not wanting to go out on a proper date with me she gets defensive and pouty and turns it around on me, accusing me of being "mean" for not liking her as a friend, yet when I talk to other girls she makes me feel guilty about it and nitpicks (sp?) about things she doesn't like about the other girl I happen to be talking to. So, what's up with that ? I mean I figure she doesn't see me as a dating option, so why the attitude when I talk to other women ?

 

This is very cut and dry. You're not expensive enough for her. Increase your worth. She knows exactly how much she needs to invest to keep you around and that investment doesn't include having to have sex with you.

 

Increase your worth by ignoring her and distancing yourself from her and going out more. She'll either drop off the planet or have sex with you -- and at this point, either option is a win/win compared to where you are now.

 

She gets catty about other women because that's just something that comes with this game.

[K'aycie]

Title of the thread says it all. I thought that we could be just friends and what not, but from the beginning she's made it very clear that she doesn't want a boyfriend, and that she doesn't want one for a long time. I thought I could maintain a smooth front and move when the time was right, but it's like any time I do so much as suggest we date she just goes into "I don't want a boyfriend" mode and gets all up in my ear about how liberating and refreshing being single is to her and how something as simple as giving me a chance would completely ruin her precious new found freedom.

 

Somewhere down the line I realized this and did what any smart man would do. I accepted the situation for what it was, tried to be her friend and got back into the dating scene (I've been single since October of 08). Well needless to say that was one royal clusterflip of a disaster, from a girl who flirted with everyone but suddenly "having a bf" when I asked her out, to one who basically ditched me to marry an illegal immigrant. I could go on and on and on about the sufferage I've endured as a result of her not wanting to simply give me a chance, but no one here has that kind of time, from rejections from other girls, to an increase in the drug and alcohol intake, to a heartache induced snap moment that I'm going to have to go to court for in November (For the love of God don't ask). You'd think going thru all this stuff she'd at least give me one little chance, but hey, hot damn if I oppress her with my devotion and compassion and willingness to treat her right.

 

It's actually gotten to the point where I actually went back to my ex and asked her for a second chance, which at the moment she's "considering". (We occasionally hook up for some no strings fun). She's a bit controlling and slap happy and I remember once thinking that I'd only try and reconsile with her as a last resort, but geez, how much more can a guy in my position take ?

 

Basically, I'm considering wether or not she's even worth keeping around and before I make my decision I want the opinions and views of as many third parties as possible. So whato you say fellas ? Keep her around or cut her loose ? Oh yea, I don't know if this is worth mentioning but earlier tonight I vaguely hinted putting our friendship on pause because there were alot of things that I'm confused about concerning our friendship and she almost non chalantly replied that if I did walk away from her I could easily be replaced, hell she's a good looking gal, that's what good looking gals do, if men in their life don't comply to standards, they replace them with men who will. Needless to say, that told me alot. I guess that's all I got for now.

 

It seems the reason you've "kept her around" is not so much because you think she's worth keeping around as a friend, but because you want to date her. She's already said from day one, that she isn't interested in a romantic relationship with you.

 

What she does in her personal life, and what you do in yours, should not be of mutual concern (except of course, if you genuinely want what's best for her, and vice versa).

 

If she comes to you asking to hang out or do things one-on-one, that's not cool. With everything you've been through, don't throw yourself into a friendship scenario, with someone who only views you platonically.

[D-Lish]

Well I guess I get it now guys. You are all right. The friend zone isn't something you get stuck in, it's something you volunteer for. I decided to do even more research on the concept and that is the common theme that keeps on popping up, and I guess I now get it. My eyes are sincerely open. It finally dawned on me that this girl is used to guys, boyfriend or otherwise, always saying "yes" to her. Well come Monday she's in for a rude awakening. I'm basically going to walk away from her and say that I can't continue to be a fake friend to her, and that she seems to be ready to get back into the dating scene and when she does, I don't really feel like hanging out for that. Best case scenario, she'll learn what it's like for the guy to walk away from her and might even make her think twice before pulling this s*** with another guy. So, yeah, thanks I guess. Slamming me and empowering me in one fell swoop, not bad guys . Appreciate it.

 

Glad you realized this.

 

And, she won't think twice about doing this to guys in the future. Your situation is not new for her. She's not that special- keep that in mind.

[welikeincrowds]

Man, I feel for you. It's so painful to find yourself wrapped up with a girl like this. So many conflicting feelings. I still feel like a loser for ever being that guy. And I stupidly let it happen again with an old flame, and although I believe I am a much different man since then, I called upon feelings that belonged to a younger me; but these girls, they're seriously spoiled and ****ed up for life.

 

I could go on and on and on about the sufferage I've endured as a result of her not wanting to simply give me a chance

 

You'd think going thru all this stuff she'd at least give me one little chance

 

Here is where you put yourself through your own private misery.

 

You'd think going thru all this stuff she'd at least give me one little chance

 

Here's where you blamed others for your own problems.

 

vaguely hinted

 

Here's where you were afraid to assert yourself.

 

 

But after reading this thread it looks like you made some great realizations.

 

It comes down to being in control of your life; to knowing what you want and don't want, and working to get it; to understanding the meaning of respect, and when you and others deserve it; to realizing when you are being disrespected, and how to uphold your honor. It sounds cliched, but it's very difficult -- easily one of the hardest life lessons I think. It's just so easy to avoid a problem or a painful truth about what you're doing. It's so hard while searching for intimacy to do the ostensible opposite and guard your boundaries, especially when dealing with someone who is used to slipping past them.

 

I guess that this situation is more likely to happen when one is in high school, or maybe college. I had this happen in high school. And it's always with the really attractive, spoiled girls that have never heard "no". I still have a chip on my shoulder for being such an idiot and wasting so much of my time and energy, so much so that this thread made me feel uncomfortable about my identity. But I am getting tired of letting past decisions with others define how "good" a man I am. I always tend to obsess over my failures, and think of mistakes as failures -- but at least I can thank these women for showing me what it means to be a man in the first place, however inadvertently.

 

When you are more aware about who gets to be in your life and why, it becomes much easier to be on top of whether or not a given person belongs. With the right attitude, it's much harder to let a broken girl like this in your life, because they would have broken your rules a long time ago -- because they don't make the cut.