She's Had Me In The Friend Zone For Over A Year Now

[TG4MJ]

Title of the thread says it all. I thought that we could be just friends and what not, but from the beginning she's made it very clear that she doesn't want a boyfriend, and that she doesn't want one for a long time. I thought I could maintain a smooth front and move when the time was right, but it's like any time I do so much as suggest we date she just goes into "I don't want a boyfriend" mode and gets all up in my ear about how liberating and refreshing being single is to her and how something as simple as giving me a chance would completely ruin her precious new found freedom.

 

Somewhere down the line I realized this and did what any smart man would do. I accepted the situation for what it was, tried to be her friend and got back into the dating scene (I've been single since October of 08). Well needless to say that was one royal clusterflip of a disaster, from a girl who flirted with everyone but suddenly "having a bf" when I asked her out, to one who basically ditched me to marry an illegal immigrant. I could go on and on and on about the sufferage I've endured as a result of her not wanting to simply give me a chance, but no one here has that kind of time, from rejections from other girls, to an increase in the drug and alcohol intake, to a heartache induced snap moment that I'm going to have to go to court for in November (For the love of God don't ask). You'd think going thru all this stuff she'd at least give me one little chance, but hey, hot damn if I oppress her with my devotion and compassion and willingness to treat her right.

 

It's actually gotten to the point where I actually went back to my ex and asked her for a second chance, which at the moment she's "considering". (We occasionally hook up for some no strings fun). She's a bit controlling and slap happy and I remember once thinking that I'd only try and reconsile with her as a last resort, but geez, how much more can a guy in my position take ?

 

Basically, I'm considering wether or not she's even worth keeping around and before I make my decision I want the opinions and views of as many third parties as possible. So whato you say fellas ? Keep her around or cut her loose ? Oh yea, I don't know if this is worth mentioning but earlier tonight I vaguely hinted putting our friendship on pause because there were alot of things that I'm confused about concerning our friendship and she almost non chalantly replied that if I did walk away from her I could easily be replaced, hell she's a good looking gal, that's what good looking gals do, if men in their life don't comply to standards, they replace them with men who will. Needless to say, that told me alot. I guess that's all I got for now.

[carhill]

Free yourself of the Hoovers, stand tall at your court date, accept the consequences of your actions, and move on to more healthy and compatible potentials. Wipe the slate clean.

 

You accept the friendzone. No one puts you there. Accept something else

[skydiveaddict]

I'm afraid my friend Carhill is wrong on this one. You are put in the friendzone and once there there is no escape

[carhill]

Nope. I was in the friendzone longer than you've been alive. It was a choice. Everything in life is a choice. He can choose to leave the friendzone tonight. I hope he does.

[Beeotch]

Correction: You've kept yourself in the friend zone for a year.

 

As a woman, I can say that I have had men who claim they want to be "friends" after trying to date me and I said it wouldn't work. They pretend to be my friend, then at some point down the line they try to get me to date them again. It is very irritating. You try to be honest with this person and they may be nice and you try to be friends...but then it ALWAYS come back around to them placing you in an awkward position. It's not fun and makes me want to erase them from my life completely, which nowadays I do, when I realize that it is going to end up that way.

 

I never understood how one can be persistent about someone who is not interested. No matter how much I like a man, if he isn't giving me the time of day romantically, I am going to accept it. I have NEVER had any inclination to pursue a man who made it known he didn't like me like that. Once I know that; I become disinterested. Something has to be wrong (something you're not admitting) why you would hang around someone for a year (some folks, years upon years waiting for a chance and accepting less-than treatment). It is an issue within yourself you are unaware of or maybe you are aware of....

 

I have a friend who has been trying to get some guy to be her bf for the past 2 years...she says they are friends, she drives out of her way to see him, has sex with him and does all these out of the way things that she does for no one else she calls a friend...why? Because she is hoping he will see her "good work" and date her. FAIL! That is not the way to go.

 

 

It has been 2 years and I told her point blank that no man (or woman) is going to drag you along for 2 years against your will and no one who is interested in you is going to let years past before making a move and also WHY would you even want someone who you had to bend over backwards for for years and years who said they didn't want you, truly, why?. If she had told him bye a lonnng time ago and acted like a TRUE friend without ulterior motives, she would have 1. Found someone else already who wants her or 2. He might have seen that she had self respect and wasn't desperate and maybe she would have seemed more appealing....

 

What does she have now? Nothing. It isn't his fault. It's hers. HE TOLD HER he only saw her as a friend but she insisted on giving him free vagina, doing chores for him and all these delusional things hoping he would change his mind. What did he do? Accept the sex, chores and so on...and now he has a real gf who has self worth and who made him actually pursue her. She is SHOCKED and upset at this, when it is quite simple. She delusionally believes that it was some form of first-come-first-serve scenario (smh). She thinks because she has been there as a dormat for years that he is supposed to be with her. FAIL. This woman presented herself with confidence and self worth, as someone worthy of being pursued, she clearly didn't seem like someone who would chase him down and offer him all these things for his time....and so being interested within weeks they were dating, while my poor friend doesn't understand what this woman he has known for weeks has over her who's been there for years...SMH!

 

With that being said my friend, no one can keep you in the friend zone or drag you along unless you are a willing party to it; which seems like you have been. You need to decide for yourself to stop pretending to be a friend to weasel your way in and accept crumbs hoping for a chance...unless you do that for YOURSELF, she will continue to use you for what she can get, and why shouldn't she since you're giving it freely for a year after she has TOLD YOU the truth.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Beeotch

[skydiveaddict]

Nope. I was in the friendzone longer than you've been alive. It was a choice. Everything in life is a choice. He can choose to leave the friendzone tonight. I hope he does.

 

 

I'm not so sure I've been friendzoned and have never found a way out. You cant make someone want to have a relationship with you

[skydiveaddict]

Correction: You've kept yourself in the friend zone for a year.

 

As a woman, I can say that I have had men who claim they want to be "friends" after trying to date me and I said it wouldn't work.

 

 

Exactly my point. If a girl doesnt want to date you she will friendzone you. with no way out

[Chrome Barracuda]

Title of the thread says it all. I thought that we could be just friends and what not, but from the beginning she's made it very clear that she doesn't want a boyfriend, and that she doesn't want one for a long time. I thought I could maintain a smooth front and move when the time was right, but it's like any time I do so much as suggest we date she just goes into "I don't want a boyfriend" mode and gets all up in my ear about how liberating and refreshing being single is to her and how something as simple as giving me a chance would completely ruin her precious new found freedom.

 

Somewhere down the line I realized this and did what any smart man would do. I accepted the situation for what it was, tried to be her friend and got back into the dating scene (I've been single since October of 08). Well needless to say that was one royal clusterflip of a disaster, from a girl who flirted with everyone but suddenly "having a bf" when I asked her out, to one who basically ditched me to marry an illegal immigrant. I could go on and on and on about the sufferage I've endured as a result of her not wanting to simply give me a chance, but no one here has that kind of time, from rejections from other girls, to an increase in the drug and alcohol intake, to a heartache induced snap moment that I'm going to have to go to court for in November (For the love of God don't ask). You'd think going thru all this stuff she'd at least give me one little chance, but hey, hot damn if I oppress her with my devotion and compassion and willingness to treat her right.

 

It's actually gotten to the point where I actually went back to my ex and asked her for a second chance, which at the moment she's "considering". (We occasionally hook up for some no strings fun). She's a bit controlling and slap happy and I remember once thinking that I'd only try and reconsile with her as a last resort, but geez, how much more can a guy in my position take ?

 

Basically, I'm considering wether or not she's even worth keeping around and before I make my decision I want the opinions and views of as many third parties as possible. So whato you say fellas ? Keep her around or cut her loose ? Oh yea, I don't know if this is worth mentioning but earlier tonight I vaguely hinted putting our friendship on pause because there were alot of things that I'm confused about concerning our friendship and she almost non chalantly replied that if I did walk away from her I could easily be replaced, hell she's a good looking gal, that's what good looking gals do, if men in their life don't comply to standards, they replace them with men who will. Needless to say, that told me alot. I guess that's all I got for now.

 

 

WTF is wrong with you!!!

 

You did it to yourself. while your in the friend zone with one chick, the idea is to screw other females and get your rocks off, So that way both of YOUR needs is met.

 

What do you get out of being friends with this chick anyways?

[carhill]

Let me clarify. A human approaches another human to f*ck. The other human *chooses* to say *no*. The human who approaches then *chooses* his or her next action or word. *Choice*. The person who rejected the romantic (sorry for my French) advance did not 'friendzone' the other person, they merely rejected the romantic advance, regardless of when it occurred, how it occurred or over what period of time intervened. At some point, everyone who talks about the friendzone asked a question, whether in words or actions, and got an answer which wasn't what they wanted. Everything they did do and say, and will do and say, prior or after, is their *choice*.

 

The key, as in most cases, is acceptance. The lady is not interested in the man romantically. *Accept it*. Move on. Trust me, it frees the soul. After 25 years, I should know.

[Beeotch]

Let me clarify. A human approaches another human to f*ck. The other human *chooses* to say *no*. The human who approaches then *chooses* his or her next action or word. *Choice*. The person who rejected the romantic (sorry for my French) advance did not 'friendzone' the other person, they merely rejected the romantic advance, regardless of when it occurred, how it occurred or over what period of time intervened. At some point, everyone who talks about the friendzone asked a question, whether in words or actions, and got an answer which wasn't what they wanted. Everything they did do and say, and will do and say, prior or after, is their *choice*.

 

The key, as in most cases, is acceptance. The lady is not interested in the man romantically. *Accept it*. Move on. Trust me, it frees the soul. After 25 years, I should know.

 

Ditto.

 

My point exactly, in less words.

[Green]

I agree with Carhill.

 

But I want to put my own spin on it

 

Friendzone doesn't exist. You basicaly thought you could wear her down by being this fake castrated version of yourself. That doesn't sound attractive now does it.

 

Seriously you would have had a better chance at getting her to be your gf if you had sent her random "lets f*ck" txts from time to time.

 

You can't wear a girl down into dating you by being some fake afraid to get rejected pretending to be ok with friendship version of yourself.

 

When you flirt with girls have fun... when you ask girls out make it clear (kiss them)

 

So did you ever even kiss or have sex with this girl? because if not I really find this all sad.

[DenverBachelor]

How to get out of the friend-zone and tag it

 

1. Make yourself more and more unavailable.

 

2. Go out with friends and especially other women. Don't keep only one woman in your orbit. The more women you keep as options, the more desirable you become (mostly because you'll act too desperate with just one woman in your life)

 

3. Start asking her for advice on this amazing girl you've just met (actually meet one). Make her wonder why you don't place her in the center of your life anymore.

 

4. Cut her off if she doesn't budge. Not worth it. Plenty more prospects.

 

 

Good luck!

[DenverBachelor]

 

Friendzone doesn't exist.

 

 

Oh, yes it does. It is the bear trap for "nice guys."

[Green]

Oh, yes it does. It is the bear trap for "nice guys."

 

Nice guys don't exist either yet another example of a self enforced reality.

[skydiveaddict]

Nice guys don't exist either yet another example of a self enforced reality.

 

 

I agree with Denver

[Beeotch]

Friend zone doesn't exist in the sense of some trap you need to get in or out of...

 

 

If a man says I'm more like a friend to him, I am not in some zone that leaves me feeling trapped within its boundaries...as Green states: It is a self enforced reality.

 

That isn't my reality. If you don't like me romantically...okay cool. Why do I need to establish and dwell on it as some formal zone for myself? The more you focus on the "friend zone" as this thing...the more of a zone/trap and palpable thing it becomes to you.

 

If someone doesn't like you romantically...keep it moving, someone else does. There is no need to call it a zone and make it into this "thing". If I don't get a job, I am not in the unemployed zone...I am not gonna sit outside the company running errands hoping they give me a job one day lol. I simply go out and find another one. I know it is not some unemployment zone, but simply, one thing that didn't work out.

 

I guarantee all those (like our friend here who made the trhread) lamenting over being in the friend zone are the only ones who constructed that trap for themselvesm like a 2x4 cage they built on their own and decided to pace around in for years, looking outside at this other person they believed to have put them there...hoping they will one day free them....it's funny when you think of it

 

Yes...metaphors and metaphorically speaking can be effective however, it also can be very disempowering as the words we use construct our reality. Your perception really is your reality. So if you choose to think of the friend zone as some nice guy trap...then "As a man thinketh so is he". Real talk!

Edited August 7, 2010 by Beeotch

[DenverBachelor]

 

Yes...metaphors and metaphorically speaking can be effective however, it also can be very disempowering as the words we use construct our reality. Your perception really is your reality. So if you choose to think of the friend zone as some nice guy trap...then "As a man thinketh so is he". Real talk!

 

Listen Beeotch,

 

I respect you and I think you're a very intelligent woman. That being said, how in the hell can someone who is called the "Queen Bitch" not understand the concept of friend-zone and how real it is? That's like Cal Ripkin trying to convince a fan that he doesn't know what a Balk is.

 

Guys and girls are much different when it comes to dating. Guys are usually the pursuers and women are the receivers. There are exceptions, but for the most part, this is reality -- no matter who is doing the perceiving. That being said, as a Guy it is my job to go out and be the alpha male (no, not the one on this board) and be strong and attractive towards women. This does not include meeting her and then talking on the phone with her for 5 hours about her problems. Why? Because when you talk to a woman about her problems, you become her problem. That's just how it is and this is the reality we live in.

 

Women have guys approaching them all the time. It's their job to weed through the suckers, nice guys, idiots, low-lifes, drug dealers, rapists, etc. and find the guy that is strong, firm, a leader but still sensitive when the time calls for it. That's what most women want -- and they also want a bit of a challenge. They don't want a guy hanging around right away like a puppy dog. That's not attractive at all. It's the same thing for guys. We do like challenge, too -- but we get that all the time.

 

It's basic social dynamics -- the more unavailable and aloof you are at first, the more you raise your perceived worth in HER eyes. That's when a guy is mysterious and interesting. Combine that with some cocky humor and some joking around with sexual innuendos and you have a guy that gets ass all the time.

 

Nice guys, on the other hand, think that by talking to a woman all the time and going shopping with her and telling her his dreams and ambitions -- well, a very small percentage of women (usually fat women) will find that endearing but, for the most part, most women will look at that guy as just another one of her circle of friends. She'll look at that guy like a brother, like a good friend that she can pick out Revlon products with while he stands there wondering for the one millionth time, "will today be the day she suddenly sees how great I am?"

 

No, it doesn't happen like that. It's like being nice in poker. Hey, let me show you my hole cards -- I really like you! Well, you just ruined the entire game and now it's not interesting or suspenseful any longer. For the most part, most guys don't get this basic concept. I fell victim to this in high school. I was "BFFs" with this girl and we did EVERYTHING together. I went over her house, her parents loved me, etc. In fact, her parents wanted me to marry this girl and when her Russian father joked around with her about it, she would just say, "Oh dad, DB's like a brother to me."

 

I took this girl to fancy restaurants, musicals, art museums, baseball games, shopping malls -- everywhere. The only time I ever got a kiss from this girl on the lips was when we were driving out of Baltimore and she was drunk. Then she started crying halfway home and when I pulled over, she was sobbing and said, "why can't I find a guy like you?" I kept thinking, "HELLO?!"

 

So yes, this is a very real concept and guys that don't understand the whole passive-aggressive nice guy and strong alpha man leader with boundaries will continue to screw drunk fat chicks and have set back after set back.

 

This is how the world works. Feel free to disagree with me, but you will be wrong. I speak from years of experience with women and how they operate. They don't want a nice-guy, they want a man. They want a man to lead them and make them feel secure and happy -- not a prick, mind you, but a guy who stands firm when times call for it.

 

Now flame on! I know a lot of people are going to really hate this post but the few that read it and understand it will be doing themselves a huge favor -- especially if they're a ""nice guy."

[Beeotch]

Listen Beeotch,

 

I respect you and I think you're a very intelligent woman. That being said, how in the hell can someone who is called the "Queen Bitch" not understand the concept of friend-zone and how real it is? That's like Cal Ripkin trying to convince a fan that he doesn't know what a Balk is.

 

Guys and girls are much different when it comes to dating. Guys are usually the pursuers and women are the receivers. There are exceptions, but for the most part, this is reality -- no matter who is doing the perceiving. That being said, as a Guy it is my job to go out and be the alpha male (no, not the one on this board) and be strong and attractive towards women. This does not include meeting her and then talking on the phone with her for 5 hours about her problems. Why? Because when you talk to a woman about her problems, you become her problem. That's just how it is and this is the reality we live in.

 

Women have guys approaching them all the time. It's their job to weed through the suckers, nice guys, idiots, low-lifes, drug dealers, rapists, etc. and find the guy that is strong, firm, a leader but still sensitive when the time calls for it. That's what most women want -- and they also want a bit of a challenge. They don't want a guy hanging around right away like a puppy dog. That's not attractive at all. It's the same thing for guys. We do like challenge, too -- but we get that all the time.

 

It's basic social dynamics -- the more unavailable and aloof you are at first, the more you raise your perceived worth in HER eyes. That's when a guy is mysterious and interesting. Combine that with some cocky humor and some joking around with sexual innuendos and you have a guy that gets ass all the time.

 

Nice guys, on the other hand, think that by talking to a woman all the time and going shopping with her and telling her his dreams and ambitions -- well, a very small percentage of women (usually fat women) will find that endearing but, for the most part, most women will look at that guy as just another one of her circle of friends. She'll look at that guy like a brother, like a good friend that she can pick out Revlon products with while he stands there wondering for the one millionth time, "will today be the day she suddenly sees how great I am?"

 

No, it doesn't happen like that. It's like being nice in poker. Hey, let me show you my hole cards -- I really like you! Well, you just ruined the entire game and now it's not interesting or suspenseful any longer. For the most part, most guys don't get this basic concept. I fell victim to this in high school. I was "BFFs" with this girl and we did EVERYTHING together. I went over her house, her parents loved me, etc. In fact, her parents wanted me to marry this girl and when her Russian father joked around with her about it, she would just say, "Oh dad, DB's like a brother to me."

 

I took this girl to fancy restaurants, musicals, art museums, baseball games, shopping malls -- everywhere. The only time I ever got a kiss from this girl on the lips was when we were driving out of Baltimore and she was drunk. Then she started crying halfway home and when I pulled over, she was sobbing and said, "why can't I find a guy like you?" I kept thinking, "HELLO?!"

 

So yes, this is a very real concept and guys that don't understand the whole passive-aggressive nice guy and strong alpha man leader with boundaries will continue to screw drunk fat chicks and have set back after set back.

 

This is how the world works. Feel free to disagree with me, but you will be wrong. I speak from years of experience with women and how they operate. They don't want a nice-guy, they want a man. They want a man to lead them and make them feel secure and happy -- not a prick, mind you, but a guy who stands firm when times call for it.

 

Now flame on! I know a lot of people are going to really hate this post but the few that read it and understand it will be doing themselves a huge favor -- especially if they're a ""nice guy."

 

I am fully well acquainted with the concept of what a friend zone is. However, my as well as others' argument is that when one is told that one is only a friend and one chooses to hang around this person who does not like them, hoping they will change their mind and lament over how they've been placed in some zone...that is that person's decision and no one else's. In that case, you have constructed your own trap and own condition in which you are permanently around this person but in this "zone". (We are not actually disagreeing as the rest of my post as I have read over sdays what you're saying, I think you were just misunderstanding what I mean by "it is not real"...and as I said, what I mean is that you have the choice to move on with your life, if you move on how can you be in a zone?? It is when you CHOOSE to hang around this person, hoping for something else is when YOU have put yourself in that zone)

 

Nothing is wrong with being genuinely nice but also, being nice can be to the point where it is pathological. Being nice doesn't excuse you from certain things or make up for other things. Being nice does not equate to being a girl's bestfriend and hoping for her to like you...how is that nice? That is being delusional. I have a problem with that. Just like my friend I explained who thought that she was being nice and appealing by having sex with some man who told her he didn't like her and being his bestie and all these things. Her "niceness" was just low-key desperation. Hanging around like a poor puppy dog on someone's doorstep fetching their paper hoping that one day they will give you a collar and make you theirs is not that nice so much as it is desperate. There is being nice and being firm within yourself and accepting NO as an answer and being fine with it. Niceness is something ANYONE can have....you need a whole bunch of other qualities to make it in life.

 

People who focus so much on being liked and being nice usually have problems but unlink anger that is a huge red flag, being nice is more passive so people don't realize you do have a problem. Being nice can be code for not being able to say no, having low self esteem and beign afraid of not being liked so you agree to everything and are overly "nice" when you want to say no inside, being desperate etc. Being "nice" is actually an ulterior motive in the case of the guys you speak of....you are not that nice actually and it is not from a "pure" place, but you are doing it with the delusional hopes that the person will start dating you. That isn't nice, it is just a non-aggressive form of desperation where you cannot accept no and would rather waste time doing things you don't really want to do hoping to be "upgraded".

 

You cannot control whether someone thinks of you as a friend or not...you can't control if your ex doesn't want to be with you anymore or not...there are lots of things you can't control. But you CAN control whether or not you will hang around waiting for them to "unfriend zone" you.

 

That really is the point....

Edited August 7, 2010 by Beeotch

[vivrantflo]

Listen Beeotch,

 

I respect you and I think you're a very intelligent woman. That being said, how in the hell can someone who is called the "Queen Bitch" not understand the concept of friend-zone and how real it is? That's like Cal Ripkin trying to convince a fan that he doesn't know what a Balk is.

 

Guys and girls are much different when it comes to dating. Guys are usually the pursuers and women are the receivers. There are exceptions, but for the most part, this is reality -- no matter who is doing the perceiving. That being said, as a Guy it is my job to go out and be the alpha male (no, not the one on this board) and be strong and attractive towards women. This does not include meeting her and then talking on the phone with her for 5 hours about her problems. Why? Because when you talk to a woman about her problems, you become her problem. That's just how it is and this is the reality we live in.

 

Women have guys approaching them all the time. It's their job to weed through the suckers, nice guys, idiots, low-lifes, drug dealers, rapists, etc. and find the guy that is strong, firm, a leader but still sensitive when the time calls for it. That's what most women want -- and they also want a bit of a challenge. They don't want a guy hanging around right away like a puppy dog. That's not attractive at all. It's the same thing for guys. We do like challenge, too -- but we get that all the time.

 

It's basic social dynamics -- the more unavailable and aloof you are at first, the more you raise your perceived worth in HER eyes. That's when a guy is mysterious and interesting. Combine that with some cocky humor and some joking around with sexual innuendos and you have a guy that gets ass all the time.

 

Nice guys, on the other hand, think that by talking to a woman all the time and going shopping with her and telling her his dreams and ambitions -- well, a very small percentage of women (usually fat women) will find that endearing but, for the most part, most women will look at that guy as just another one of her circle of friends. She'll look at that guy like a brother, like a good friend that she can pick out Revlon products with while he stands there wondering for the one millionth time, "will today be the day she suddenly sees how great I am?"

 

No, it doesn't happen like that. It's like being nice in poker. Hey, let me show you my hole cards -- I really like you! Well, you just ruined the entire game and now it's not interesting or suspenseful any longer. For the most part, most guys don't get this basic concept. I fell victim to this in high school. I was "BFFs" with this girl and we did EVERYTHING together. I went over her house, her parents loved me, etc. In fact, her parents wanted me to marry this girl and when her Russian father joked around with her about it, she would just say, "Oh dad, DB's like a brother to me."

 

I took this girl to fancy restaurants, musicals, art museums, baseball games, shopping malls -- everywhere. The only time I ever got a kiss from this girl on the lips was when we were driving out of Baltimore and she was drunk. Then she started crying halfway home and when I pulled over, she was sobbing and said, "why can't I find a guy like you?" I kept thinking, "HELLO?!"

 

So yes, this is a very real concept and guys that don't understand the whole passive-aggressive nice guy and strong alpha man leader with boundaries will continue to screw drunk fat chicks and have set back after set back.

 

This is how the world works. Feel free to disagree with me, but you will be wrong. I speak from years of experience with women and how they operate. They don't want a nice-guy, they want a man. They want a man to lead them and make them feel secure and happy -- not a prick, mind you, but a guy who stands firm when times call for it.

 

Now flame on! I know a lot of people are going to really hate this post but the few that read it and understand it will be doing themselves a huge favor -- especially if they're a ""nice guy."

 

 

This is one of the greatest posts I've ever read on this forum.

[mike5770]

Get rid of her...stop contacting her as she causes these problems....The friend zone means I will never ever see you as a mate zone. Tell her its her loss and keep trying wih the ladies.

[mike5770]

A good way to be a challenge is pretend you are dating a 300lb fat girl with zits and who smells...would u be calling her all the time or sending her flowers?? Let her chase you...i agree I was always the nice guy sucker nice guys finish last with women!

[smk]

Nice guys don't exist either yet another example of a self enforced reality.

 

Am arguable point - yes we do exist and we always seem to finish last...

 

Some of us (like me) are genuinely nice guys, not because we have some secret hidden agenda, not because we are incapable of being arrogant POS, but because we are genuinely half decent people who really are nice and despite what women say I am actually beginning to believe that they truly do want to be treated like crap...

 

So I guess that's what I am gonna do...

 

Sorry slightly off topic post there

[teanoranges]

okay, is she leading you on? giving you extreme hints?

cause if so, yes.. she's a jerk.

if not, then I don't understand how she's such a horrible person to need to go to such extremes.. she was actually cool enough to tell you that she wasn't interested... isn't this what all us 'breadcrumb' talkers talk about??

I totally understand her 'I don't want a relationship' reasoning. Some people don't need to be with someone. Some people are okay waiting until they meet someone who blows there socks off.. and some people are okay with friends with benefits.

 

Are you even her 'friend'? or are you that guy that she keeps around cause it boosts her ego? What do you two have in common, share, or enjoy together? or is it one of those things where she'll talk and you'll compliment her?

I would definitely say try being her friend, a real friend, you know... talk about meaningful things, do things you enjoy... stop kissing her feet.. nobody likes a needy beggar... I don't care how 'good' they treat you, when you are so dependent, you are not attractive.

 

lastly, stop blaming her for your mistakes. you dated those people and turned to drugs because YOU couldn't handle yourself. That was all you.. unless of course she was saying 'do these drugs and I'll love you' in that case, she's not good for you... but if she didn't really make you do it.. please be honest with yourself.

 

I know that if I was 'friends' with a man and after telling him I didn't see him in the romantic sense, I'd respect him if he said he needed time, but an ultimatum wouldn't work and depending on the situation I might dislike him even more.

[DenverBachelor]

Am arguable point - yes we do exist and we always seem to finish last...

 

Some of us (like me) are genuinely nice guys, not because we have some secret hidden agenda, not because we are incapable of being arrogant POS, but because we are genuinely half decent people who really are nice and despite what women say I am actually beginning to believe that they truly do want to be treated like crap...

 

So I guess that's what I am gonna do...

 

Sorry slightly off topic post there

 

This is the greatest problem in trying to "crack the code" when it comes to how to treat women. So many guys view the "nice guy" speech as a black and white subject where a guy is either nice or a guy believes "women truly do want to be treated like crap."

 

I'll elaborate on this a bit and try to break it down in a different way.

 

I consider myself to be a good person. I believe in treating people with respect when they show me respect. However, I don't put up with bull****. Women don't want to be treated like crap. However, they don't want a guy to be a doormat, either.

 

The entire principle of being a strong man is setting boundaries. We've read this time and time again in a number of posts on this forum. There are countless examples of guys not setting boundaries in a relationship and overcompensating in other areas for their inability to say, "no, I will not be disrespected by you." If a woman plays games with you, you need to firmly put her in her place -- this is for her benefit and for yours. If she comes home late and gives a bunch of excuses, you need to tell her that you will not tolerate that kind of behaviour. You can then explain to her that she should call you in the future to let you know that she will be late.

 

The entire point is "not" to be a needless dick to a woman but to set strong and clear boundaries that everyone understands. It might "seem" like a dickish thing at first if you are a nice guy and not used to being assertive, but being assertive is much better than being passive-aggressive towards someone. When you assert your will, there is no ambiguity in your message. When you are passive-aggressive, there is a lot.

 

Also, you can be a strong alpha male and still be respectful towards women (I don't really like using the term "nice" anymore). The word "nice" seems to suggest a more passive approach to life. Respectful is a better word in my opinion.

 

You still treat women with respect, you still pull out chairs for them or carry the groceries in -- you can still give them the closer parking space. At the same time, you set clear boundaries with them over what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Unfortunately, during a relationship, a woman will occasionally test a man. They will push those boundaries and try to see how far they can move them. You, as the leader, need to show a woman that those boundaries are solid and that you will not accept it when they cross those boundaries.

 

Yes, if you help an old lady across the street, some people will say you were nice. That's fine -- but again, I prefer to think of it as being respectful. You do these things not to gain favour but because you genuinely feel apart of a greater good and because it's the right thing to do.

 

It is extremely hard to put into words but eventually it will just click. When it does, your relationships will improve -- not just the romantic ones, but relationships with everyone and especially the relationship you have with yourself.

Edited August 7, 2010 by DenverBachelor

[DenverBachelor]

This is one of the greatest posts I've ever read on this forum.

 

Thank you!