piscis Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Hi everyone! I have been dating a MM for a couple of months. And the other day having a chat with some friends (some married, some single) we found that in most cases when a W discovers the affair they blame almost in a 90% the OW. I agree that (in cases where the MM tells the OW they are married; sometimes they prretend to be separated or even divorced or single) his status was a boundary we did not respect but they didn't either. So, after finding out and the emotions of the discovery have someone reached the idea that he is as responsable as she is? (or in my opinion even more responsable) Thanks in advance for the comments
cookie2 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Granted I am a man not a woman but I can answer from the other side for you I blame my wife 90% and the OM 10%. He knew she was married, if he was any kind of decent guy he would've said no. But he is not the one who made a promise to me, to forsake all others, till death do us part. It's my wife who said that, and therefore her who is mostly to blame.
bentnotbroken Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Hi everyone! I have been dating a MM for a couple of months. And the other day having a chat with some friends (some married, some single) we found that in most cases when a W discovers the affair they blame almost in a 90% the OW. I agree that (in cases where the MM tells the OW they are married; sometimes they prretend to be separated or even divorced or single) his status was a boundary we did not respect BUT they didn't either. So, after finding out and the emotions of the discovery have someone reached the idea that he is as responsable as she is? (or in my opinion even more responsable) Thanks in advance for the comments The bolded statement speaks volumes to me about justification. Affairs are by no means punishable by law anymore, but it seems that by no longer being held legally accountable AP seem to feel as if they have no accountability in the act either. Example 1: You get a ticket for speeding, you tell the officer "yes I exceeded the boundary of speed, but so did the person in front of me and he did it first. Does that make you less culpable and dangerous? Example 2: You are riding with the friend, friend tells you I am going to rob the store on the corner then we can go out to dinner. You stay in the car while they rob the store. You didn't hold the gun, threaten anyone or drive the car to leave the scene. What is your responsibility? Some one could have been seriously injured in both scenarios. What is your standard for not hurting others? Is it dependent on someone else's actions? Is it monkey see, monkey do? Or do you think for yourself? Just because someone doesn't respect their marriage vows, why should you disrespect the vows and the BS. Is your behavior dependent on the standard of another? Every time I got into trouble and told my mom, "yes I did it, but so and so did it too" Her response was if they jump in front a train, are you going to do it to? Simplistic yes....make sense...yes.
TinaniT Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Simplistic yes....make sense...yes. I am half with you there. It is not an equitable comparison. Okay, so person A agreed to not speed living in an area with a speed limit. Person B is racing along the autobahn. They agreed to no such rule set. They never made a promise not to speed. Anyone who mainly blames the other person rather than their spouse (and their relationship) is seriously mistaken and probably not going to fix the things so it cannot happen again. Because the other person is not the issue. (And yes, I've been cheated on. My former fiance cheated on me. It was not the other woman's fault. She was incidental. It was his. And flaws in our relationship.)
Mimolicious Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 The bolded statement speaks volumes to me about justification. Affairs are by no means punishable by law anymore, but it seems that by no longer being held legally accountable AP seem to feel as if they have no accountability in the act either. . Since this is a global forum. Adultery is illegal in other countries and in at least 4 states in the US. Even though, it is hardly ever prosecuted but is still on the statute books as a misdemeanor. You need hefty evidence mostly from a 3rd party to be able to file for grounds of divorce under it. However, recently there was a BS in the state of CA who sued her H's OW and was awarded $9 Million bucks. Not that she may see a penny from it but she still won the case. A jury ordered Lundquist to pay $5 million in compensatory damages and $4 million in punitive damages for breaking up the Shackelfords' 33-year marriage. "My main message is to all those women out there who might have their eyes on some guy that is married to not come between anybody," Shackelford told the ABC's "Good Morning America" today. If these laws were in fact implemented, I wonder how many OW would take the plunge for their MM??? I believe there is no set formula for accountability but if we took in consideration the facts, then our distribution of "% of fault" would have more validation. Scenario A: If you know the couple, you are friends with them and you see what a "amazing" marriage they have and you make it your goal to bed one of them and become their new pet, A ends- then you have a whole lot more "fault" than.... 90% AP 10% MP If A doesn't end then this goes to 50%/50% Scenario B: You meet a dude at a bar, tells you he is single, you start dating him 8 months into your R, you find out he is married with 3 kids, then you are what is called a "no-fault". BUT and this is a big BUT, if you continue with the A because you are "in love" and can't just walk away... Your "no-fault" state starts dropping bars... now you are willingly making informed decisions. 90% MP 10% AP before finding out 50% MP 50%AP after finding out In life you have choices and it is what you make it. You get the drill... So in a nut-shell, you may be held accountable in different degrees based on your actions. If you are willing to play the game then be able to settle the score. So Piscis, at this point you are well informed about the situation of your MM. You even think that his W has no dignity because she knows and yet is still with him... I want to say, this is 50/50. You are making the decision to stay involve in the situation. You are "Acting in concert"- and I guess we would say that so does his W in your case. 2 people with the same goal, not your MM... he doesn't share you and his W's goals.
Author piscis Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 I of course do not want to say that I am not responsable (speaking in my own case), the thing is that when my MM's wife found out she totally blamed me because I made lots of things (which I did not) to make his H cheated on her. Trying to comprehend her I can see that of course I flirt yes and maybe I "made him" cheated on her with me but during 8 months??? Of course I am not saying she is responsable that is not part of this thread. But I would have IMPO to agree with cookie2 when he says that the person who had a commitment with the BS was the MM/MW and they betrayed that commitment. In an example maybe I was the "bad woman" and made all the efforts to make him cheat on her with me (and in my case and in many others MM are who persuade not the other way) but wasn't he able to say no? Or maybe he was wrapped in the situation but there are people who have been in that situation for years!! I think that sometimes BS prefere to think that the OW are horrible women that wrappes men in having A as sometimes OW prefere to think that BS are horrible women that do not care enough of their H and so they do not have other options (as if they did not really have one thousdand other options besides cheating) than having an A and I consider this is a mental game that they unconsciuosly play while trying to understand the MM actions
Mimolicious Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 sorry meant to put 100% the MP and 0% AP. if you are not aware that the person was M.
cookie2 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Trying to comprehend her I can see that of course I flirt yes and maybe I "made him" cheated on her with me but during 8 months??? Exactly - you didn't hold a gun to his head, you didn't force him to cheat. He made the choice. I regard my wife's OM as a complete bastard, he knew she was married and pretended to be my friend while he was banging her behind my back. I would certainly not want to meet him again, I might end up arrested. But as far as blame goes, my wife gets the majority of it -- though there is plenty to go around!!
Gfkr2 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Granted I am a man not a woman but I can answer from the other side for you I blame my wife 90% and the OM 10%. He knew she was married, if he was any kind of decent guy he would've said no. But he is not the one who made a promise to me, to forsake all others, till death do us part. It's my wife who said that, and therefore her who is mostly to blame. As a BH, I could not have said it better. We are in total agreement on who is the responsible party.
Onto Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Truth is, if he ever left his wife you most likely wouldn't be interested in him anymore. You're hoping that you'll fail in winning him away from his wife. Just like you wished you failed in winning your Father's love away from his wife (your Mother). The childhood fault of winning the Father is most often the driving force of a woman's desire to be with the married man.
SidLyon Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Hi everyone! I have been dating a MM for a couple of months. And the other day having a chat with some friends (some married, some single) we found that in most cases when a W discovers the affair they blame almost in a 90% the OW. I agree that (in cases where the MM tells the OW they are married; sometimes they prretend to be separated or even divorced or single) his status was a boundary we did not respect but they didn't either. So, after finding out and the emotions of the discovery have someone reached the idea that he is as responsable as she is? (or in my opinion even more responsable) Thanks in advance for the comments Do you mean that 90% of BWs allocate some of the blame to the OW? If so that sounds about right to me. It wouldn't surprise me if it's even closer to 100% of BWs who would at least give some part of the blame to the OW, even if only a minor part. Or, do you mean that 90% of BW blame only the OW for the affair? If you do I strongly disagree with you. From the OW perspective they may feel they are getting most of the blame but really they can't tell just what proportion of it is coming their way.
jnj express Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Hey piscis----The married woman's beef is with her Husband and only her husband---those are the two that took vows together----But That does not absolve you of the tag of homewrecker for that is what you are----For no matter what he couldn't have cheated WITHOUT A PARTNER, and you were a WILLING PARTNER----Of course you didn't give a **** if your wrecked the lives of his kids, and they became pawns in a bitter homelife, and in case of divorce will be passed from home to home You I am sure have a clear conscious as to what you did to them No matter what you will walk away free----but you do not get a free pass-- you are a homewrecker
bentnotbroken Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Exactly - you didn't hold a gun to his head, you didn't force him to cheat. He made the choice. I regard my wife's OM as a complete bastard, he knew she was married and pretended to be my friend while he was banging her behind my back. I would certainly not want to meet him again, I might end up arrested. But as far as blame goes, my wife gets the majority of it -- though there is plenty to go around!! NO she did not hold a gun to his head and he is completely responsible for his actions. "THE BUT" that is often thrown around seems to be used as some type of absolution for poor choices of one person to get the other a "lesser degree" of involvement....that I don't get. I don't think AP broke marital vows, but I do think they break the bonds of human respect.
turnstone Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Blame I have no time for. Responsibility matters far more in my opinion and each party involved in my life without my permission was responsible for the effect they had on it. My exH was without doubt responsible for introducing the other women into my life, but they were responsible for what they did knowing he was married and I held them all in equal contempt. However, from what I read on LS, many OPs are more than deserving of the majority of the 'blame' for what happens after D Day.
alexandria35 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Hi everyone! I have been dating a MM for a couple of months. And the other day having a chat with some friends (some married, some single) we found that in most cases when a W discovers the affair they blame almost in a 90% the OW. I agree that (in cases where the MM tells the OW they are married; sometimes they prretend to be separated or even divorced or single) his status was a boundary we did not respect but they didn't either. So, after finding out and the emotions of the discovery have someone reached the idea that he is as responsable as she is? (or in my opinion even more responsable) Thanks in advance for the comments Are you saying that most BW's find their husbands faultless in an affair and that they blame the OW almost (90%) completely? I find that difficult to believe. The BW's I have known in real life definitely hold the OW responsible, but not moreso than their WS. Well the BS may speak of the OW with disdain and anger, it's the WS who gets most of the BW's anger and hurt. It's the WS who has to come home everyday and see their BS pain and devastation, it's the WS who has to put in the work and the time to earn back trust and heal the marriage. Just because the BW has unkind words for the OW and assigns some blame to the OW doesn't mean that she isn't holding her WS responsible. Affairs are interesting in that this seems to be the only situation where people figure it's okay to hurt someone else based on the fact that they didn't take vows with that person. If I helped a friend hurt and deceive their spouse in some way other than an affair, most people would see that as just out and out wrong. If I tried to defend my behaviour by saying I didn't take any vows not to hurt and deceive my friends spouse I would sound ridiculous.
Gfkr2 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 (edited) Are you saying that most BW's find their husbands faultless in an affair and that they blame the OW almost (90%) completely? I find that difficult to believe. The BW's I have known in real life definitely hold the OW responsible, but not moreso than their WS. Well the BS may speak of the OW with disdain and anger, it's the WS who gets most of the BW's anger and hurt. It's the WS who has to come home everyday and see their BS pain and devastation, it's the WS who has to put in the work and the time to earn back trust and heal the marriage. Just because the BW has unkind words for the OW and assigns some blame to the OW doesn't mean that she isn't holding her WS responsible. Affairs are interesting in that this seems to be the only situation where people figure it's okay to hurt someone else based on the fact that they didn't take vows with that person. If I helped a friend hurt and deceive their spouse in some way other than an affair, most people would see that as just out and out wrong. If I tried to defend my behaviour by saying I didn't take any vows not to hurt and deceive my friends spouse I would sound ridiculous. Read the hundreds of posts by BS in this site. I think you will find a pattern where the BW primarily blames the OW for the entire A. Tell me the last post where a BH wanted revenge against the OM? They are few and far between. It well known that a BW is more willing to accept her Cheating Husband back after an affair, and part of this process is to place a majority of the blame at the feet of the OW, which is wrong. The betrayal was by HER husband who legally, morallly and supposedly committed to M. I hardly ever see a post here where a BH thinks the OM was responsible for the A. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is. Edited August 7, 2010 by Gfkr2
Spark1111 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Read the hundreds of posts by BS in this site. I think you will find a pattern where the BW primarily blames the OW for the entire A. Tell me the last post where a BH wanted revenge against the OM? They are few and far between. It well known that a BW is more willing to accept her Cheating Husband back after an affair, and part of this process is to place a majority of the blame at the feet of the OW, which is wrong. The betrayal was by HER husband who legally, morallly and supposedly committed to M. I hardly ever see a post here where a BH thinks the OM was responsible for the A. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is. Oh, I so disagree! Men entertain violent revenge fantasies when discovering the existence of the OM! They would be really, really, stupid to post them in a public forum, but some have been very honest as to allude to what they would like to do, or would do, if the OM EVER attempts contact with the wife. That's for those who have successfully reconciled. As for blaming the OW.... It is a natural part of the PTSD following DDAY to cast blame on someone other than the WS....at least for a while. It is a defense mechanism that kicks in to keep one's psyche from cracking from the devastating pain of betrayal at the hands of someone you loved and trusted. It is a deflection.....and a protection.....and one that is not necessarily controllable for a while. But when the trauma starts to calm down, and healing begins, most slowly come to the realization that the anger belongs squarely on the shoulders of the spouse. They just have to become strong enough, physically and emotionally to begin to open that door, small cracks at a time.
Ellin Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Read the hundreds of posts by BS in this site. I think you will find a pattern where the BW primarily blames the OW for the entire A. Tell me the last post where a BH wanted revenge against the OM? They are few and far between. It well known that a BW is more willing to accept her Cheating Husband back after an affair, and part of this process is to place a majority of the blame at the feet of the OW, which is wrong. The betrayal was by HER husband who legally, morallly and supposedly committed to M. I hardly ever see a post here where a BH thinks the OM was responsible for the A. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is. That's what I started to think while reading this thread. The men who responded see it clear-cut. As far as they're concerned it was their W who vowed to be faithful and failed. The OM is incidental. Not so with most women who replied. Eve's complex? The woman is the bad one, the temptress. The man is just the victim. He has his desires. That's just the way he is. Can't help it. The woman should take responsibility for that and stay away at all cost.
Mimolicious Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 How many BH are here? Take it from there and perception will be more accurate. Count by the masses...
Gfkr2 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 How many BH are here? Take it from there and perception will be more accurate. Count by the masses... Well, I am a BH with a StbxW.
lbm74 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I think every scenario is too individual to exact percentages, however, if I were to evaluate my situation I would say my H is 90% to blame. He handed her his business card with his private email account on it to her in an airport after he sat down near her to chat with a beautiful woman. Chatting is one thing, handing her his contact info was the poor decision he made. She knew right off the bat he was married, but he decided to tell her his marital issues. She was the first to tell him he loved her, but naturally she gave him everything he wanted, and he fell too. So do I think she is to blame? Sure, but not as much as he, as she played the game. Do I respect her and her morals, character, and judgement? Hell, no. I usually refer to her as the homewrecking whore in converstion.
HappyAtLast Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I was a BH prior to becoming a MM years later. My issue was solely with my then-wife. Her affair partner was inconsequential to me, it was her with whom I had an issue. Although, to be honest, had someone told me the lad had fallen off the end of the earth, I would not have shed a tear.
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Read the hundreds of posts by BS in this site. I think you will find a pattern where the BW primarily blames the OW for the entire A. Tell me the last post where a BH wanted revenge against the OM? They are few and far between. It well known that a BW is more willing to accept her Cheating Husband back after an affair, and part of this process is to place a majority of the blame at the feet of the OW, which is wrong. The betrayal was by HER husband who legally, morallly and supposedly committed to M. I hardly ever see a post here where a BH thinks the OM was responsible for the A. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is. That may very well have to do with the smaller number of BH here(just like OM) and the ones who are here have indeed talked about revenge fantasies. Mr. Messy was afraid the BH of ow would whip his behind. Even told me I put his life in danger:lmao:(his penis actually did that, but who wants to blame their own actions for cheating?). It happens, turn on the news.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 That may very well have to do with the smaller number of BH here(just like OM) and the ones who are here have indeed talked about revenge fantasies. Mr. Messy was afraid the BH of ow would whip his behind. Even told me I put his life in danger:lmao:(his penis actually did that, but who wants to blame their own actions for cheating?). It happens, turn on the news. I agree. This is another reason why cheating is dangerous because it hurts everybody involved. You people see it every year about a BS killing his WW, her OM, and his kids, then committing suicide. Or you may hear about a BW poisioning the OW, then running over her WH with her pickup truck.
Mimolicious Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I agree. This is another reason why cheating is dangerous because it hurts everybody involved. You people see it every year about a BS killing his WW, her OM, and his kids, then committing suicide. Or you may hear about a BW poisioning the OW, then running over her WH with her pickup truck. I have to co-sign it. People play with another person's emotions not knowing that pressing the wrong button can actually make a person snap! I say this all the time... But you know, it's all for the sake of "love". Millions on passion crimes later...
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