Revenge? Who Has the right?

[Spark1111]

Interesting to note in another thread, that an OW having feelings of revenge towards her MM, his BS, and THEIR marriage is supported by some because those feelings are "normal" when thrown under the bus by a MM who returns to reconcile.

 

But often, the much maligned BS is frequently considered cold, vicious (a word I was once called) vengeful and crazy when they out the affair to the world, or spray paint their WS's car with the word "cheater," or inform the MOW/MOM's spouse.

 

So, isn't a woman scorned a woman scorned?

 

Why is it necessary to have camps that seem to espouse a greater right to ownership of vengeful feelings?

 

Isn't it correct to assume that all people when in great pain, seek to lash out at the object or objects of that pain?

 

Whether it be the WS, OW, OM, BS? The affair relationship? And the marital relationship?

[spriggig]

Cheaters must necessarily use heavy doses of denial of responsibility, blame shifting and outright lies to engage in cheating in the first place.

 

Some of them are so adverse to guilt and forgiving that they NEVER give up on their position and carry the denial straight to the grave.

 

There are a lot of hurt people who wrap their hearts in barbed wire, hold everyone at arms length and still claim to carry on healthy, loving, deep relationships. They know the feeling of chasing butterflies ("true love" to them), but the caring, deep, unconditional love that some couples share is foreign to them outside of pets and their own children toward them.

 

It's really sad.

[jennie-jennie]

Of course it is as natural for a BS as for an OW to harbor thoughts and feelings of revenge. The quote I posted in the other thread is obviously applicable to all human beings: "considering revenge is a very human response to feeling slighted".

 

In the case of the OP in the other thread she was not thinking of acting on her revengeful thoughts though, just getting her revenge in how the situation played itself out.

 

What you are describing is a BS actively seeking revenge through actions. That is undoubtedly taking it one step further.

 

Informing the MOP's spouse seems reasonable in my personal opinion, just like informing the BS would be to me. But taking it beyond that... that is too much for me at least.

 

I think you have to be extra careful as a BS so you do not get stuck in bitterness. At least an OW knows that she partly has herself to blame for staying in an extramarital relationship, I think this limits her bitterness. But for the BS, it is easy to see herself/himself as an innocent victim and thus justify being bitter and revengeful to no end.

[jennie-jennie]

Whether it be the WS, OW, OM, BS? The affair relationship? And the marital relationship?

 

I just realized you mentioned the WS too. Well, they too are human and capable of harboring thoughts of revenge of course. But I am not sure against whom they would be holding such thoughts in an affair scenario. The OW - for informing the BS? The BS - for...?

[whichwayisup]

But for the BS, it is easy to see herself/himself as an innocent victim and thus justify being bitter and revengeful to no end.

'

 

Can I ask why you always say stuff like this? A BS IS an inocent victim in the triangle of an affair! Do you blame your MM's wife that he's living a double life, cheating on her?

[donnamaybe]

'

 

Can I ask why you always say stuff like this? A BS IS an inocent victim in the triangle of an affair! Do you blame your MM's wife that he's living a double life, cheating on her?

 

I gotta wonder this as well. I mean, seriously. The MM/MW is THE culpable party in these A's. The OW/OM is the enabler. The BS is the victim.

 

End of story.

[2sure]

For me, as a BS I didnt want revenge against any OW my H had because they were either victims of him as well or they were already victims of themselves and life. Besides, having been OW myself I knew that they felt as though their relationship with my husband was strictly between the two of them. Its a common mistake. When you have an affair with someone who is married, the spouses are involved whether they are aware of it or not. You have made yourself a part of someone Else's life.

 

So, until I spoke to OW and told her the circumstances she had caught herself up in and told her she was no longer invited into my life...I had no animosity. Depending on her acceptance of my terms, I never thought of her again. If she re-entered my life after being told not to...I entered hers as though a welcome mat had been laid out for me.

No one ever gave me a problem after that.

[Snowflower]

 

I think you have to be extra careful as a BS so you do not get stuck in bitterness. At least an OW knows that she partly has herself to blame for staying in an extramarital relationship, I think this limits her bitterness. But for the BS, it is easy to see herself/himself as an innocent victim and thus justify being bitter and revengeful to no end.

 

This is a bit condescending, don't you think?

 

Remember, unlike the MP and the AP, the BS had no choice in having this disgusting event foisted upon them.

 

I agree that some BS get stuck in bitterness...but then again they were never given a choice in the matter.

 

Should they try to move past the bitterness? Well yes, for the sake of the BS...I hate to see anyone stuck like that because life is short. However, it's not up to me to decide if anyone should be bitter or not.

[Spark1111]

Cheaters must necessarily use heavy doses of denial of responsibility, blame shifting and outright lies to engage in cheating in the first place.

 

Some of them are so adverse to guilt and forgiving that they NEVER give up on their position and carry the denial straight to the grave.

 

There are a lot of hurt people who wrap their hearts in barbed wire, hold everyone at arms length and still claim to carry on healthy, loving, deep relationships. They know the feeling of chasing butterflies ("true love" to them), but the caring, deep, unconditional love that some couples share is foreign to them outside of pets and their own children toward them.

 

It's really sad.

 

Sprigig, this could be anyone, any person who does not wish to enlighten themselves, no?

[Spark1111]

Of course it is as natural for a BS as for an OW to harbor thoughts and feelings of revenge. The quote I posted in the other thread is obviously applicable to all human beings: "considering revenge is a very human response to feeling slighted".

 

In the case of the OP in the other thread she was not thinking of acting on her revengeful thoughts though, just getting her revenge in how the situation played itself out.

 

What you are describing is a BS actively seeking revenge through actions. That is undoubtedly taking it one step further.

 

Informing the MOP's spouse seems reasonable in my personal opinion, just like informing the BS would be to me. But taking it beyond that... that is too much for me at least.

 

I think you have to be extra careful as a BS so you do not get stuck in bitterness. At least an OW knows that she partly has herself to blame for staying in an extramarital relationship, I think this limits her bitterness. But for the BS, it is easy to see herself/himself as an innocent victim and thus justify being bitter and revengeful to no end.

 

But Jennie,

 

We are the innocent victim in the affair triangle....up until we know conclusively, then are actions are of our own choosing.

 

I am not vengeful of bitter. I did have a fleeting thought of crashing INTO HIS car while it was parked in her driveway, but thankfully it passed. He had told me he was staying in hotels, but he was with her, all the while begging to reconcile, but telling her we were over.

 

Yet, based on my only conversation with her two years after DDAY, she is still very bitter. Vengeful? NO. Bitter? Oh yes.

[Spark1111]

I just realized you mentioned the WS too. Well, they too are human and capable of harboring thoughts of revenge of course. But I am not sure against whom they would be holding such thoughts in an affair scenario. The OW - for informing the BS? The BS - for...?

 

Sure. That is one scenario. Or the BS for interupting the A come DDay. Or the BS for outing the affair to friends and family and sometimes the boss, or the pastor.

 

Or the AP. They too get blamed by some WS.

[Spark1111]

For me, as a BS I didnt want revenge against any OW my H had because they were either victims of him as well or they were already victims of themselves and life. Besides, having been OW myself I knew that they felt as though their relationship with my husband was strictly between the two of them. Its a common mistake. When you have an affair with someone who is married, the spouses are involved whether they are aware of it or not. You have made yourself a part of someone Else's life.

 

So, until I spoke to OW and told her the circumstances she had caught herself up in and told her she was no longer invited into my life...I had no animosity. Depending on her acceptance of my terms, I never thought of her again. If she re-entered my life after being told not to...I entered hers as though a welcome mat had been laid out for me.

No one ever gave me a problem after that.

 

We think and operate exactly the same. Never harbored any vengeful thoughts towards her until she re-entered my life again uninvited. ANd then it was simple a straightforward to the point phone call.

 

But my WS? Other than wanting to crash into his car one night, and telling a few trusted friends and family members we were done, because that is what I really believed, I told him to have a nice life with her, and meant it. Good bye.

[Spark1111]

This is a bit condescending, don't you think?

 

Remember, unlike the MP and the AP, the BS had no choice in having this disgusting event foisted upon them.

 

I agree that some BS get stuck in bitterness...but then again they were never given a choice in the matter.

 

Should they try to move past the bitterness? Well yes, for the sake of the BS...I hate to see anyone stuck like that because life is short. However, it's not up to me to decide if anyone should be bitter or not.

 

Snowflower, but so do many, many OW/OM also get stuck in bitterness. Is is because they truly believed the AP lied to the spouse (for true love) but never to them?

 

Is that the cause of an OW/OM's bitterness? Because they would have to adopt that as gospel during the affair to feel so bitter and vengeful when the affair ends.

[Snowflower]

Snowflower, but so do many, many OW/OM also get stuck in bitterness. Is is because they truly believed the AP lied to the spouse (for true love) but never to them?

 

Is that the cause of an OW/OM's bitterness? Because they would have to adopt that as gospel during the affair to feel so bitter and vengeful when the affair ends.

 

I agree that many OW/OM also get stuck in bitterness, or, to get back to your original point, Spark, AP's also think about revenge.

 

I brought up the BS because of a post where the BS were told that they should get on with life and not get stuck in bitterness.

 

I think everyone should work on themselves to not become bitter after an affair, life's too short, but it's not my place to judge someone for being bitter and/or wanting revenge...I can understand how they got that way:

For the BS...they thought their marriage was special and immune from infidelity and again, this was not a choice that they (the BS) made for themselves.

For the xAP: they also thought their relationship was special and that the promises made to them by their MP were for real (hmmm....sounds kind of like the BS's expectation as well. )

[Owl]

In some aspects, I agree with Jennie that it's pretty normal for most people to FANTASIZE about revenge on those that we preceive have wronged us.

 

I freely admit that I absolutely plotted some heinous things against OM for a good while after d-day in my own situation.

 

I never made any effort to carry any of them out, and realized pretty quickly that unless something changed the equation...as long as he remained (remains) out of my life in any fashion...they were and will stay just fantasies.

 

Which is a good thing...as I'm well-qualified due to my background to carry out these actions that I'd considered.

 

I glanced through that other thread, and i get why the OP there considered revenge against her xMM.

 

He lied to her about his intents and actions, and when it came down to it he demonstrated that he's pretty much morally bankrupt overall.

 

Easy to be hurt/angry/consider revenge against someone who does that to you.

 

Of course...acting out on that revenge fantasy is a completely different critter.

 

And...on that other thread, I couldn't understand the OP's anger at the BW. I've also never really understood the OM/OW's anger overall against the BS's in general...especially when there's never been any kind of direct contact or direct contention between them. Now...if there'd been a threatening phone call or something...that's a little different.

[Snowflower]

And...on that other thread, I couldn't understand the OP's anger at the BW. I've also never really understood the OM/OW's anger overall against the BS's in general...especially when there's never been any kind of direct contact or direct contention between them. Now...if there'd been a threatening phone call or something...that's a little different.

 

Hopefully one of the helpful OM/OW will come over here and explain this anger.

[Gfkr2]

I gotta wonder this as well. I mean, seriously. The MM/MW is THE culpable party in these A's. The OW/OM is the enabler. The BS is the victim.

 

End of story.

 

Thank you for being clear on the BS always has the right to extract vengence against the any and all cheaters who destroyed his/her M.

[bentnotbroken]

Vengeance is something that I entertained(for those really low points:rolleyes:) Stupidity in trying to exact revenge...only drags down the one looking for it. Sure it makes most people around them miserable, but in the end the one seeking revenge is the one brought to nothingness. Anger is one thing...revenge is a whole different beast that typically bites the hand that feeds it.

[donnamaybe]

Thank you for being clear on the BS always has the right to extract vengence against the any and all cheaters who destroyed his/her M.

Is that what I said? Man, talk about reading between the lines.

 

Or, more appropriate, making shyte up.

 

However, let's be clear that anyone has the absolute RIGHT to do ANYTHING that won't land them in jail.

[Spark1111]

I agree that many OW/OM also get stuck in bitterness, or, to get back to your original point, Spark, AP's also think about revenge.

 

I brought up the BS because of a post where the BS were told that they should get on with life and not get stuck in bitterness.

 

I think everyone should work on themselves to not become bitter after an affair, life's too short, but it's not my place to judge someone for being bitter and/or wanting revenge...I can understand how they got that way:

For the BS...they thought their marriage was special and immune from infidelity and again, this was not a choice that they (the BS) made for themselves.

For the xAP: they also thought their relationship was special and that the promises made to them by their MP were for real (hmmm....sounds kind of like the BS's expectation as well. )

 

I guess, that's my point. A person scorned is a person scorned. We both feel the same way and I understand why we would.

 

Just wondering why it is percieved acceptable for some, and not so much for others.

 

Is it because a necessary part of the affair script is 'My spouse doesn't love me anymore," and it assumed we have no right to feel vengeful and wish someone harm? Even as a fleeting fantasy?

 

....just wondering.....

[Spark1111]

Hopefully one of the helpful OM/OW will come over here and explain this anger.

 

Yes, why be angry at me?

 

Don't get it.

 

Why be angry at the marriage?

 

Still don't get it.

[whichwayisup]

And...on that other thread, I couldn't understand the OP's anger at the BW. I've also never really understood the OM/OW's anger overall against the BS's in general...especially when there's never been any kind of direct contact or direct contention between them

 

Jealously, emotions, envy,.Easier to take it out and accuse the BS of manipulating and pulling strings to stay married, rather than admitting that MM is still choosing to stay and focus that anger towards him. Yet when a D-Day happens, OW don't want the BS directing ANY anger towards them since it's always said "I'm not the one married and committed, so I haven't done anything wrong.."

[Spark1111]

Vengeance is something that I entertained(for those really low points:rolleyes:) Stupidity in trying to exact revenge...only drags down the one looking for it. Sure it makes most people around them miserable, but in the end the one seeking revenge is the one brought to nothingness. Anger is one thing...revenge is a whole different beast that typically bites the hand that feeds it.

 

True, Bent!

 

I realized very quickly that revenge would reduce me to a person I was not, and ultimately would make me feel a whole lot worse, not better about both myself and the situation.

 

Like jthorne's quote: "When you embark on the journey for revenge, dig two graves."

[Spark1111]

Jealously, emotions, envy,.Easier to take it out and accuse the BS of manipulating and pulling strings to stay married, rather than admitting that MM is still choosing to stay and focus that anger towards him. Yet when a D-Day happens, OW don't want the BS directing ANY anger towards them since it's always said "I'm not the one married and committed, so I haven't done anything wrong.."

 

And I just do not understand the lack of accountability and enlightenment in this situation.

 

Were we competing in this situation?

 

Who knew? Certainly not me.

 

And despite what his OW thought she knew about me or our marriage, she had only heard it from one source, my fWS!

 

At least I realized immediately that my anger belonged squarely on his shoulders.

 

I only wondered how she could have "enabled", (great word Donna!) him to do to me what had been done to her by her xH who went on to marry his last OW, about which she was still bitter.

 

But wish revenge on her had he chosen her? No, not me at all.

[Snowflower]

I

Just wondering why it is percieved acceptable for some, and not so much for others.

 

Is it because a necessary part of the affair script is 'My spouse doesn't love me anymore," and it assumed we have no right to feel vengeful and wish someone harm? Even as a fleeting fantasy?

 

....just wondering.....

 

Oh, I think this is absolutely the case most of the time.

 

The BS has been so minimized by the WS and eventually by the AP that when the gig is up (D-day), the BS's emotions actually don't even make sense to the WS, much less the AP.

 

I remember after d-day in my situation, that once I knew pretty much everything, I could actually feel the minimization by my H and to a lesser extent, the AP.

 

A few days after he confessed the A, My H (in his confusion) forwarded me a text from the OW where she was asking, "why did you tell her (me), why does she have to know everything? As I look back on it, it shows how she didn't even consider me a person with feelings at all. Just wow...scary affair fog thinking.

 

I also felt the minimization by my H firsthand...how he considered others (not his OW) and their thoughts before he considered mine...his SIL, his new roommate (a guy he moved in with while we were separated), etc. Everyone else mattered more at that point...I was completely minimized. It hurt more than anything.

 

It's like during the A, the BS isn't even a person and then suddenly after D-day, it is very obvious that the BS is a real, living person with their own agenda (whatever that may be). And I think that is where the anger comes from.