Affair = 'safe' relationship?

[Silly_Girl]

MM has stated reasons in the past, valid to him, for not leaving his wife. I have talked to him, my counsellor, discussed on here, and thought a good deal and have the very strong feeling that being with me would be just too much for him.

 

He would have to face things in himself he is not comfortable with, he would need to face some really bad relationship habits he has got in to; and could no longer pretend to be emotionally retarded. I didn't get that side of him, i.e. some of his worst traits in his marriage were nothing like the person he let me see. I KNOW a lot of that was in reaction to his wife's actions, but that is not at all the point.

 

I believe he just is not brave enough to actually look in the mirror and accept himself. Or maybe he can do that, but he possibly can't then act on it and change those things he needs to change.

 

Then I was thinking about the things I love about the dynamic of he and I. And one of the things I kept coming back to was that he truly loves all side of me. I find it difficult to gel with men; actually far from it - to clarify I find it difficult to meet/connect with potential partners. I think I'm a bit of a handful.

 

But MM loves and can interact with the geeky, nerdy me, the energetic career woman, the soppy mum and proud housewife, the tipsy and loud party girl, the hopeless romantic, the quiet introspective one, the bedroom vixen (his favourite? ) etc etc etc.

 

And I value that so much. It really is something I know now I searched for with others and never found. The fact I never hide any part of me, am 100% open, honest, vulnerable. He is the first person in my whole life (except my best friend of 18 years - I think) I can have that with. Not my mum or sister or my ex-husband. No one. Having that really means so much to me.

 

And then I clicked. In the same way he's staying safe in his marriage, am I doing the same? Am I not being brave by searching for what I feel I need in someone else? Someone who is free to be with me? Is this safe for me because he is married and therefore potentially will always 'be there' and I'm not really vulnerable at all, like I think I am. But to try and meet someone else, that truly WOULD be exposing myself? (and not in a good way!)

 

Is this issue something others have thought/felt or is this me just waffling?

[2sure]

[QUOTE=Silly_Girl;2920939]And then I clicked. In the same way he's staying safe in his marriage, am I doing the same? Am I not being brave by searching for what I feel I need in someone else? Someone who is free to be with me? Is this safe for me because he is married and therefore potentially will always 'be there' and I'm not really vulnerable at all, like I think I am. But to try and meet someone else, that truly WOULD be exposing myself? (and not in a good way!)

 

Is this issue something others have thought/felt or is this me just waffling?

 

 

STOP HERE. STOP THINKING, STOP READING. YOU DONT NEED ANY MORE ANSWERS.

[Butterfly11]

I think that the reverse is true about As. I think they are less safe then a typically relationship. At least for the most part you know if things don't work out it was because of the relationship and not his relationship with someone else. Because, I love my MM as you love yours, the possibility that he could crush me and that I would no longer have that connection with someone, scared me and made it more risky IMO.

[Mimolicious]

MM has stated reasons in the past, valid to him, for not leaving his wife. I have talked to him, my counsellor, discussed on here, and thought a good deal and have the very strong feeling that being with me would be just too much for him.

 

He would have to face things in himself he is not comfortable with, he would need to face some really bad relationship habits he has got in to; and could no longer pretend to be emotionally retarded. I didn't get that side of him, i.e. some of his worst traits in his marriage were nothing like the person he let me see. I KNOW a lot of that was in reaction to his wife's actions, but that is not at all the point.

 

I believe he just is not brave enough to actually look in the mirror and accept himself. Or maybe he can do that, but he possibly can't then act on it and change those things he needs to change.

 

Then I was thinking about the things I love about the dynamic of he and I. And one of the things I kept coming back to was that he truly loves all side of me. I find it difficult to gel with men; actually far from it - to clarify I find it difficult to meet/connect with potential partners. I think I'm a bit of a handful.

 

But MM loves and can interact with the geeky, nerdy me, the energetic career woman, the soppy mum and proud housewife, the tipsy and loud party girl, the hopeless romantic, the quiet introspective one, the bedroom vixen (his favourite? ) etc etc etc.

 

And I value that so much. It really is something I know now I searched for with others and never found. The fact I never hide any part of me, am 100% open, honest, vulnerable. He is the first person in my whole life (except my best friend of 18 years - I think) I can have that with. Not my mum or sister or my ex-husband. No one. Having that really means so much to me.

 

And then I clicked. In the same way he's staying safe in his marriage, am I doing the same? Am I not being brave by searching for what I feel I need in someone else? Someone who is free to be with me? Is this safe for me because he is married and therefore potentially will always 'be there' and I'm not really vulnerable at all, like I think I am. But to try and meet someone else, that truly WOULD be exposing myself? (and not in a good way!)

 

Is this issue something others have thought/felt or is this me just waffling?

 

There are also people who stay M because they feel this way. Just one little detail that one is disloyal. That still doesn't mean that your H/W doesn't make you feel this way about yourself.

 

I don't think you are just "waffling". It is what it is... Whatever your MM makes you feel, is what he makes you feel. Who can change that? Not even you can!

 

SG- for anyone to accept you, love you and handle you the way you are, you must first accept, love and handle yourself. I may be sensing wrong but I get the feeling that you are almost there but not yet.

 

Maybe a little something like this:

 

I believe he just is not brave enough to actually look in the mirror and accept himself.

 

Are you?

 

There are millions of men that you can "gel" with. You don't know because you are not meeting any. You are trapped in one dimension. In a R with someone that in your eyes is the "be all end all", how can see you any further? You as settled as he is.

[BB07]

OH SG...........you are on to something here, you put into words some of my thoughts on taking risks with less than desirable men, be they married, separated or just all around unsuitable.

 

I wonder.....if this weakness in us has some protective measures in it. Are we trying to protect ourselves on some stupid level? Are we sabotaging ourselves, in that we keep ourselves from having what we say that we want most?

 

I gotta wonder how much of this element is at the root of some of my issues.

 

 

BTW.......you have a eloquent way of writing.

[BB07]

[QUOTE=Silly_Girl;2920939]And then I clicked. In the same way he's staying safe in his marriage, am I doing the same? Am I not being brave by searching for what I feel I need in someone else? Someone who is free to be with me? Is this safe for me because he is married and therefore potentially will always 'be there' and I'm not really vulnerable at all, like I think I am. But to try and meet someone else, that truly WOULD be exposing myself? (and not in a good way!)

 

Is this issue something others have thought/felt or is this me just waffling?

 

 

STOP HERE. STOP THINKING, STOP READING. YOU DONT NEED ANY MORE ANSWERS.

 

I really disagree with this. I assume you are talking about the affair itself, but to stop questioning about our parts in it and how we got there and how we ended up here, is a huge mistake.

[2sure]

Nope, I am not talking about the affair itself. If the affair makes her happy and she is comfortable with it, fine. What I meant was - regarding the last paragraph describing her own self reflection - was that YES. Thats the answer. Period.

 

After someone realizes that and explores that themselves...the affair will soon become less satisfying OR one will at least come to recognize why they have chosen it.

 

Affair relationships to me, in my experience, are emotionally safer and easier than marriage or other committed relationships simply because the expectations are low and the excuses built in.

[jj33]

I agree its safe or its sometimes it works and there isnt anyone single with whom it works as well and why keep looking for relationship youve never been able to find with an SG when youve found it however imperfectly with a MM. Or if youve given up hope of ever finding love and then you find everything you were looking for but for the ring on his finger, then ?? but its all flip sides of the same thing to me.

[2sure]

Why people involve themselves in affairs can be analyzed until the cown come home but I really believe the answers are pretty simple.

The hard part comes when you decide not to have an affair.

[OWoman]

Why people involve themselves in affairs can be analyzed until the cown come home but I really believe the answers are pretty simple.

The hard part comes when you decide not to have an affair.

 

Hmmm... I'm not sure I agree with that.

 

I've often thought that my preference for As was because they met all of my needs - which included the "safe" aspect. I had other priorities (as a single parent, professional and general busy person) which I could not risk getting interfered with in the way that lurrrrve messes with your priorities.

 

But having moved from an A into a M, I don't think it's hard at all. It's surprisingly easy. It's just like the A, only full-time.

 

I still don't want anybody else. And my H still doesn't want anybody else either. We still both thrill when we see each other again after being apart. We both still respect and prioritise each other, taking time and care to let the other know how much they mean to us and why. We both still can't keep our hands of each other. We both still take the time to talk, to listen, to understand, to clarify, to respond. We still enjoy spending time together, doing things together, treating the other, loving the other. The only difference is a couple of pieces of paper.

[2sure]

Uh actually, you agreed with me.

 

Except I know that marraige is different than an affair just like know baby sitting is different than mothering.

[OWoman]

Uh actually, you agreed with me.

 

OK... then I'm not sure I understood your post, first time round. To me, there was no hard part deciding not to have an A. That came naturally. It was just more of the same.

 

Except I know that marraige is different than an affair just like know baby sitting is different than mothering.

 

I've never babysat, so can't comment.

[Silly_Girl]

I think that the reverse is true about As. I think they are less safe then a typically relationship. At least for the most part you know if things don't work out it was because of the relationship and not his relationship with someone else. Because, I love my MM as you love yours, the possibility that he could crush me and that I would no longer have that connection with someone, scared me and made it more risky IMO.

 

That is a reason it's less risky, for me. If two people are free to be together, and fail for whatever reason, those two people are to blame. No good looking at a third party, or logistics or anything else.

 

If OW and MM split, the OW is blameless p'raps. The OW isn't 'not right' for MM, isn't rejected; the R just wasn't viable because MM has a wife.

 

Plus, although my MM frequently says otherwise, I suspect there's a chance that if I were to be accepting of the current status quo he would never ever be found out or own up or get bored of me. So I could have this for ever if I wanted, I believe.

 

I am scared of losing my MM because of how I feel about him. I would feel the same about a single guy who elicited this strength of feeling in me. The risk of losing that for ever would be equally hurtful. Unless MM being married is a plus point for you (rare), and then yes, losing your MM would be much worse than losing another you had committed to.

[Silly_Girl]

There are millions of men that you can "gel" with. You don't know because you are not meeting any. You are trapped in one dimension. In a R with someone that in your eyes is the "be all end all", how can see you any further? You as settled as he is.

 

I know what you are saying and why. I can really see it. I do doubt my chances of meeting anyone. Just because I work 60 hours a week, and 95% of free time is spent with my lad. But that's pretty much irrelevant.

 

What you say IS true. He is the 'ultimate' to me currently. I have 2 friends who want to smack me for being back in contact with MM but instead they are nagging me to get out and about and meet people/men. Perspective I guess. But I won't notice anyone else, will I? D'oh.

 

I'm not settled in my current situation, but I'm working hard on it.

[Silly_Girl]

OH SG...........you are on to something here, you put into words some of my thoughts on taking risks with less than desirable men, be they married, separated or just all around unsuitable.

 

I wonder.....if this weakness in us has some protective measures in it. Are we trying to protect ourselves on some stupid level? Are we sabotaging ourselves, in that we keep ourselves from having what we say that we want most?

 

I gotta wonder how much of this element is at the root of some of my issues.

 

 

BTW.......you have a eloquent way of writing.

 

Do we deem ourselves incapable/unworthy? Is it just a 'settling' of sorts?

[BB07]

Do we deem ourselves incapable/unworthy? Is it just a 'settling' of sorts?

 

I'm not sure. I think a lot of it has to do with my background, in that I am the daughter of my father who was an alcoholic, and abuser, and he molested me and......drum roll please....... he was a serial cheater.

 

Nice background uh!

 

Outwardly I am well adjusted, I'm not a alcoholic, nor a pill popper, nor a abuser myself. Probably my biggest shortcoming is that I procrastinate and I have difficulty making decisions. I know that I have an addictive personality, but so far have kept myself in check. I've always felt different, in fact there are some aspects of myself that I am glad that I am a bit of a rebel about.

 

I'm sure there are lots of reasons that I don't feel good enough and that I feel different than others. Having my daughter with special needs just compounds that in some ways, because I am different because of her. I can not go and come as other people do, nor can I sleep on a regular schedule as other people do, etc., so that just compounds my differences with other more normal people.

 

My biggest problem in life and the source of my greatest pain has been my relationships with men. Which I'm sure that isn't a shocker for anyone.

[Spark1111]

OK, this is another great thread.

 

Examine if and why you feel unworthy.

 

Examine why sharing your TRUE self and feelings felt safer with a man already in a committed relationship, before it turned to love.

 

Did you originally approach the attraction as having nothing to lose because, WTH, he's married? Feeling LESS vulnerable initially, because he was married?

 

Did you show more of yourself to him initially because of that?

 

Are you afraid to show that to a single man? One who could reject the true you if he knew you?

 

I think you are onto something here, SG.

 

Because how could you attract someone when you do not feel comfortable to show the true you from the get go?

[Snowflower]

Very insightful, Spark. Your posts have been beautifully written lately (not that they weren't before-it's just they are extra sweet now ).

 

Boy, it is very obvious when someone has been through great pain and out the other side...to forgiveness and peace. This is you, spark! I'm getting there slowly...

[noel2]

I do think there is something inside us OW/OM that is somewhat afraid of finding a single partner, maybe were afraid we can't maintain a full time relationship, maybe we just enjoy self sabotaging. I wish I had the answer, I'd be a wealthy woman, but the problem is, I think there are so many reasons why we end up in A's. I think each of our situations is different. The one thing I do know that is the same with all of us OW/OM is that we are as confused about our situation as a M person is about whether they want to remain M.

[Silly_Girl]

OK, this is another great thread.

 

Examine if and why you feel unworthy.

 

Examine why sharing your TRUE self and feelings felt safer with a man already in a committed relationship, before it turned to love.

 

Did you originally approach the attraction as having nothing to lose because, WTH, he's married? Feeling LESS vulnerable initially, because he was married?

 

Did you show more of yourself to him initially because of that?

 

Are you afraid to show that to a single man? One who could reject the true you if he knew you?

 

I think you are onto something here, SG.

 

Because how could you attract someone when you do not feel comfortable to show the true you from the get go?

 

I do think some of that is true. Thank you Spark. Very much. Oh hell, probably all of it is true! Although I don't think I'm unworthy.

 

Our relationship started online, talking (or 'blurting' as I like to call it). It didn't matter what he thought of me, and vice versa. I can remember us saying we would never meet so it really didn't matter that we were so (sometimes excruciatingly) honest. No vested interest, no consequences. When I spoke about the conditions under which I would consider more children, or what drives me crazy, or why I miss my real dad, nothing mattered. He couldn't judge me I guess. And it's not just that. It's how he reacted to those things too. It was just my 'perfect'.

 

But I guess, someone else COULD have that attitude towards me too, given the chance. But the people I've met never have.

 

MM and I have talked about how that initial contact, and the nature of it possibly took us to a depth and emotional equality we may never quite have got to otherwise; and certainly he has never even been in that direction on the compass, let alone gone that far.

 

Not sure I like this, if I'm truthful. Not sure I want to get to the 'bottom' of it all. I mean I do, rationally, but maybe it's suited me (IS suiting me?) to believe in something intangible and magical. Hhmmmm...

[BB07]

Not sure I like this, if I'm truthful. Not sure I want to get to the 'bottom' of it all. I mean I do, rationally, but maybe it's suited me (IS suiting me?) to believe in something intangible and magical. Hhmmmm...

 

I'm still struggling with this even after all that has happened. My rational mind knows it can not happen and that I have to completley give up that dream of what I thought I had, but my mind and my heart have not completely met yet, but hopefully NC will help it all become clearer.

 

I wish the same for you SG, in that things will become clearer and we can move past this with better compasses of ourselves and others.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm not sure. I think a lot of it has to do with my background, in that I am the daughter of my father who was an alcoholic, and abuser, and he molested me and......drum roll please....... he was a serial cheater.

 

Nice background uh!

 

Outwardly I am well adjusted, I'm not a alcoholic, nor a pill popper, nor a abuser myself. Probably my biggest shortcoming is that I procrastinate and I have difficulty making decisions. I know that I have an addictive personality, but so far have kept myself in check. I've always felt different, in fact there are some aspects of myself that I am glad that I am a bit of a rebel about.

 

I'm sure there are lots of reasons that I don't feel good enough and that I feel different than others. Having my daughter with special needs just compounds that in some ways, because I am different because of her. I can not go and come as other people do, nor can I sleep on a regular schedule as other people do, etc., so that just compounds my differences with other more normal people.

 

My biggest problem in life and the source of my greatest pain has been my relationships with men. Which I'm sure that isn't a shocker for anyone.

 

BB, do you feel as though it is the relationship aspect only (pretty much) that you struggle with? Or that lets you down I should say.

 

I can understand with the feeling different, particularly on something such as a sleep pattern, because it literally feels as though there is the rest of the world and you. And it won't matter that these challenges and the love you consistently show helps prove you as a person, because the feeling different will overshadow that.

 

Was there anything about your MM that put those issues at rest? Or was it a greater need for love/closeness/acceptance from a man, and that man happened to be MM?

 

I do get interested by the 'did I want love or did I want MM's brand of love' that often crops up in these threads. It's easy for me to think it's the latter.

[BB07]

at least 10 characters

 

BB, do you feel as though it is the relationship aspect only (pretty much) that you struggle with? Or that lets you down I should say.

 

Wow.......you are being tough on me. Yes I do feel as if my relationships with men are the thorn in my side. The biggest thorn in my side of my life, yes.

 

Some of this stuff is hard to admit.

 

I can understand with the feeling different, particularly on something such as a sleep pattern, because it literally feels as though there is the rest of the world and you. And it won't matter that these challenges and the love you consistently show helps prove you as a person, because the feeling different will overshadow that.

 

Was there anything about your MM that put those issues at rest? Or was it a greater need for love/closeness/acceptance from a man, and that man happened to be MM?

 

This is a toughie. There was a time, when he and I both would have had a chance to pursue the relationship with a lot less complications. He wasn't on his 2nd marriage, I was available, but yet neither one of us acted on this huge attraction we had for each other. We both danced around it for years. Then when it finally was spoken of, it was too late. So then fast forward to the first lie, of him being separated. I fell hard and fast, then he said they reconciled, (another lie), then I was knowingly in an affair situation. I walked because I couldn't take it...then like star crossed lovers our 2nd chance,(another separation lie) and there we went again. Then almost 2 years later, he was not separated after all. Now back to the answers to your questions. I held on because I always believed that he would make good on the very intense feelings that we shared and that we shared a lot of the same wants and needs about relationships, about love, about life. Some of it, I can't explain, but I now see we both have issues about fear, about really being available to actually have what we both said we wanted. The history speaks for itself I guess. It had a flavor of romanticism to it also.

 

 

 

I do get interested by the 'did I want love or did I want MM's brand of love' that often crops up in these threads. It's easy for me to think it's the latter.

[Silly_Girl]

Didn't mean to seem tough at all. My friends and family say how well I cope, what I've achieved/survived etc. But relationship-wise I let myself down. Just wondered if you were similar in that way, when you said outwardly well-adjusted. Sorry!!

[hopesndreams]

Affair = 'safe' relationship?

 

Affair = ego BOOST relationship. Nothing more.