Male/female friendship issues

[EHS]

I am a female and I have a male friend whom I have known for about three years now. He lives in another state so we are mainly friends through e-mail and phone. But we have met several times as well, with some mutual friends of ours. We are quite close and have a lot of fun together. Nothing romantic has ever happened between us. In fact I thought he was gay for the longest time, even though he insisted he was not. But I have always seen him as a brother.

 

I am very happily married and have been for 10 years. My husband and I have known each other for 13 years total. He knows about my friendship with this guy and has no problems with it, especially because he knows my other friends who are friends with him.

 

Lately my guy friend has been seeing a woman and it's become quite serious. I am not jealous in the least and am very happy for him. But it seems he is no longer comfortable being such good friends with me, I guess because he does not want to make her jealous. I fully understand this and I think it's admirable that he is wants to prove his loyalty to his girlfriend.

 

But on the other hand, I am feeling a bit confused and hurt because of the distance he has placed between us. Again, I am not jealous of my friend's girlfriend. I have no reason to be. But I miss his friendship.

 

I started thinking that he is being kind of hypocritical. He was okay with being friends with me, a married woman, but now that he has found a girlfriend, it's like he doesn't want me to come between them.

 

It makes me feel a bit used.

 

Am I overreacting? Am I being selfish?

 

Please don't read anymore into this than what I have stated. I do NOT have romantic feelings for him. I am just feeling confused and hurt because it seems somewhat hypocritical, and because I miss his friendship. I do want him to be happy, but I don't see why we can't be friends despite his girlfriend. I realize things will change, and the dynamics might never be the same, but it seems that he is distancing himself more and more.

 

Please let me know what you think!

[artsy]

Hi EHS,

 

I totally get where you're coming from and I completely understand the concept of non-romantic versus romantic friendship. There's nothing worse than people judging your feelings and jumping on you.

 

I've noticed this phenomenon with female and male friends and sometimes the reasons can be very similar. First, society puts pressure on both sexes to reject opposite sex friendships which can be a hurdle even if there's nobody, friends and partners alike, standing in the way. Even in this century, it is still not acceptable to most people for men and women to be friends. Girlfriends don't want their boyfriends to have close female friends, boyfriends feel guilty about having close female friends etc etc. Friends around you want to assign romance where there is none, it's very frustrating to deal with all these attitudes, but they are real and ever present.

 

I feel very strongly that we all have the right to be friends with whomever we want, same or opposite sex. I have run into the same issues, sometimes it's a girlfriend who feels pressure from her husband to spend more time with him and less with her friends. Other times its been a male friend who hides me from his wife for no other reason that to 'keep up appearances'. What a waste!

 

There could be several reasons that he is distancing himself from you.

 

1. Personal guilt - even though he may not have feelings for you he assumes it's inappropriate to continue a friendship with you.

 

2. Pressure from his girlfriend - if she knows about your friendship, she may be disapproving of it.

 

3. Lack of need - if he's so totally into this woman, he may not have the same needs to share and spend time with you. That's sad, but it happens. He may not realize that he still needs you, and may regret it later.

 

4. Secret feelings - he may very well have some feelings for you which are making him feel conflicted, and he withdraws to deal with it. Typically, guys don't form intimate friendships with women they aren't attracted to.

 

Have you tried talking to him directly and saying something like "I'm really happy for you, but if you feel like being friends with me isn't something you want anymore, it's OK to tell me." It might prompt him to explain.

 

Good luck!

 

 

I am a female and I have a male friend whom I have known for about three years now. He lives in another state so we are mainly friends through e-mail and phone. But we have met several times as well, with some mutual friends of ours. We are quite close and have a lot of fun together. Nothing romantic has ever happened between us. In fact I thought he was gay for the longest time, even though he insisted he was not. But I have always seen him as a brother.

 

I am very happily married and have been for 10 years. My husband and I have known each other for 13 years total. He knows about my friendship with this guy and has no problems with it, especially because he knows my other friends who are friends with him.

 

Lately my guy friend has been seeing a woman and it's become quite serious. I am not jealous in the least and am very happy for him. But it seems he is no longer comfortable being such good friends with me, I guess because he does not want to make her jealous. I fully understand this and I think it's admirable that he is wants to prove his loyalty to his girlfriend.

 

But on the other hand, I am feeling a bit confused and hurt because of the distance he has placed between us. Again, I am not jealous of my friend's girlfriend. I have no reason to be. But I miss his friendship.

 

I started thinking that he is being kind of hypocritical. He was okay with being friends with me, a married woman, but now that he has found a girlfriend, it's like he doesn't want me to come between them.

 

It makes me feel a bit used.

 

Am I overreacting? Am I being selfish?

 

Please don't read anymore into this than what I have stated. I do NOT have romantic feelings for him. I am just feeling confused and hurt because it seems somewhat hypocritical, and because I miss his friendship. I do want him to be happy, but I don't see why we can't be friends despite his girlfriend. I realize things will change, and the dynamics might never be the same, but it seems that he is distancing himself more and more.

 

Please let me know what you think!

[Minnie09]

He has a new priority now, and that's the GF.

There might have been feelings involved on his part, even if you were oblivious to them, and he now feels uncomfortable around you, especially with her by his side. He might have even told her about those feelings.

I, too, think, that males hardly seek a woman's friendship, if there is no attraction going on in some way. This might scare him away now.

Just my 2 cents.

But I would ask him bluntly.

If he lives out of your state, how (often) do you usually communicate?

[EHS]

Thank you artsy and minnie!

 

Artsy, I agree that men and women should be able to have opposite sex friendships outside the context of their relationships. As long as those relationships are not romantic in nature, then I don't see the problem.

 

Your enumerated reasons for why my friend might be distancing himself are very good.

 

While I don't think he was attracted to me, perhaps there were buried feelings in there. Or not.

 

What will especially upset me is if his reasons are either #1 or #3. Because clearly he didn't feel guilty being my friend knowing my marital status, so why should it be any different now? It feels like a slap in the face. As though I might come in between him and his gf. Which I wouldn't. I am happily married and only ever saw him as a friend. And then if it's #3 - well, again, if we were only mere friends, then why should he "need" me less? Friends need each other regardless of relationship status, or so I thought. We were never ever romantic toward each other, so I don't quite get the deal there. Unless, as you said, there were secret feelings?

 

Ah hell, maybe male-female friendships just can't happen in any context. Who knows.

 

Minnie, the thing is, I was never his priority - I am just a friend among all his others. I don't know if he has distanced himself from his other friends as well. I don't know his other good friends well enough to ask them. But it would be interesting to know.

 

I do know when people get into relationships that it changes them, but I find it sad if good friendships fall by the wayside as a result of those relationships.

 

I do plan to talk to him, I just don't know how. I don't want to trespass on his feelings or make things in our friendship more awkward.

 

Any advice as to how to approach the topic?

[carhill]

Any advice as to how to approach the topic?

Couples dinner night out

 

Right, you don't live within hundreds of miles of each other...

 

TBH, isn't it kind of hard to have a close friendship, one which perhaps causes frustration under the circumstances you're describing, at that kind of distance?

 

For example, my best friend, someone whom I've been close to for many years, is traveling around the country with his wife for a number of months. I fly in and out of various places and visit them while on their trip. We remain close. On these same trips, I also visit distant friends, kind of like your friend, people whom I rarely see in person but have had great long-distance friendships with over the years. In their case, if I don't hear from them for a year, or they me, it's no big deal. We don't have a close, physical friendship. We enjoy each other when our paths cross, like this summer as an example. I don't ascribe negative feelings to not hearing from them or not being 'included' in their lives. Does that make sense? Many times, I'm more in contact with their wives simply because most men don't do 'communicating' that well. It's more about having a beer and BS'ing over the BBQ with them.

 

I'd wish the friend well with his new relationship and let it go at that. He'll act how he finds healthy for himself. I wouldn't presume anything one way or another, rather accept how things are now. Good luck and congratulations on your long marriage

[artsy]

Thank you artsy and minnie!

 

Artsy, I agree that men and women should be able to have opposite sex friendships outside the context of their relationships. As long as those relationships are not romantic in nature, then I don't see the problem.

 

Your enumerated reasons for why my friend might be distancing himself are very good.

 

While I don't think he was attracted to me, perhaps there were buried feelings in there. Or not.

 

What will especially upset me is if his reasons are either #1 or #3. Because clearly he didn't feel guilty being my friend knowing my marital status, so why should it be any different now? It feels like a slap in the face. As though I might come in between him and his gf. Which I wouldn't. I am happily married and only ever saw him as a friend. And then if it's #3 - well, again, if we were only mere friends, then why should he "need" me less? Friends need each other regardless of relationship status, or so I thought. We were never ever romantic toward each other, so I don't quite get the deal there. Unless, as you said, there were secret feelings?

 

Ah hell, maybe male-female friendships just can't happen in any context. Who knows.

 

Minnie, the thing is, I was never his priority - I am just a friend among all his others. I don't know if he has distanced himself from his other friends as well. I don't know his other good friends well enough to ask them. But it would be interesting to know.

 

I do know when people get into relationships that it changes them, but I find it sad if good friendships fall by the wayside as a result of those relationships.

 

I do plan to talk to him, I just don't know how. I don't want to trespass on his feelings or make things in our friendship more awkward.

 

Any advice as to how to approach the topic?

 

Yeah I agree, #1 and #3 are the worst and most frustrating because they involve a complete lack of control on your side. They are more ethereal in nature and you can't point to it and say "That's it, that's the reason! Well now I can just tell you why you shouldn't feel that way..."

 

I've been through this before with men, and it feels so horrid, because there's really nothing you can do about it. As women, we feel like 'Oh, if I want to talk about it, he'll think I have feelings for him and I'm being needy..." And it really is the only way to get the answer, is to put yourself out there. It may feel a bit awkward, but you have a right to ask him.

 

Some guys are just weird, they mostly don't pay as much attention as we do to the nuances of relationships, sometimes stuff happens and they aren't even aware that they've acted differently towards you. Maybe a non-threatening approach would work. Like "Hey, I haven't talked to you much lately, what's up?"

 

I too find it really sad when people start new romantic relationships and abandon their current friendships. That comes back to bite them in the butt, when the relationship dissolves and they need you again.

[Eeyore79]

If I was his girlfriend, I wouldn't much like him being friends with you either. I guess I'd tolerate it if it was phone/email only and if you rarely or never met up, but I wouldn't like him hanging out with you in person.

[EHS]

Couples dinner night out

 

Right, you don't live within hundreds of miles of each other...

 

TBH, isn't it kind of hard to have a close friendship, one which perhaps causes frustration under the circumstances you're describing, at that kind of distance?

 

For example, my best friend, someone whom I've been close to for many years, is traveling around the country with his wife for a number of months. I fly in and out of various places and visit them while on their trip. We remain close. On these same trips, I also visit distant friends, kind of like your friend, people whom I rarely see in person but have had great long-distance friendships with over the years. In their case, if I don't hear from them for a year, or they me, it's no big deal. We don't have a close, physical friendship. We enjoy each other when our paths cross, like this summer as an example. I don't ascribe negative feelings to not hearing from them or not being 'included' in their lives. Does that make sense? Many times, I'm more in contact with their wives simply because most men don't do 'communicating' that well. It's more about having a beer and BS'ing over the BBQ with them.

 

I'd wish the friend well with his new relationship and let it go at that. He'll act how he finds healthy for himself. I wouldn't presume anything one way or another, rather accept how things are now. Good luck and congratulations on your long marriage

 

Thanks for your response!

 

Yes, your story makes sense... there are some friends with whom we have minimal contact, but yet we pick back up with them right away when we see them.

 

My situation is a bit different as we have pretty regular contact. Or at least we did - that's dwindling more recently, ever since he found a girlfriend.

 

I have wished him well.... and I am very happy for him. I'm just hurt because he is not as responsive as he used to be. I know he is quite consumed with her... but I assumed we could stay close friends, considering that I too am attached.

[EHS]

Yeah I agree, #1 and #3 are the worst and most frustrating because they involve a complete lack of control on your side. They are more ethereal in nature and you can't point to it and say "That's it, that's the reason! Well now I can just tell you why you shouldn't feel that way..."

 

I've been through this before with men, and it feels so horrid, because there's really nothing you can do about it. As women, we feel like 'Oh, if I want to talk about it, he'll think I have feelings for him and I'm being needy..." And it really is the only way to get the answer, is to put yourself out there. It may feel a bit awkward, but you have a right to ask him.

 

Some guys are just weird, they mostly don't pay as much attention as we do to the nuances of relationships, sometimes stuff happens and they aren't even aware that they've acted differently towards you. Maybe a non-threatening approach would work. Like "Hey, I haven't talked to you much lately, what's up?"

 

I too find it really sad when people start new romantic relationships and abandon their current friendships. That comes back to bite them in the butt, when the relationship dissolves and they need you again.

 

I think I have a right to talk to him too, considering we have been close friends. But I also agree that men are not as attuned to the nuances of relationships and friendships as women are. I think I will try your casual approach suggestion, though - it's a good one!

 

Yeah, I don't understand why some people allow friendships to fade away when they meet a significant other. I mean, if those friendships are valuable, they should be kept at all costs.

[EHS]

If I was his girlfriend, I wouldn't much like him being friends with you either. I guess I'd tolerate it if it was phone/email only and if you rarely or never met up, but I wouldn't like him hanging out with you in person.

 

Thanks for your response. Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you not agree with male-female friendships that occur outside of a primary romantic relationship?

[Eeyore79]

Thanks for your response. Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you not agree with male-female friendships that occur outside of a primary romantic relationship?

 

I guess I would be jealous, because he's my boyfriend and I don't want him hanging out with another woman on their own. It's not that I wouldn't trust him; more that I wouldn't trust the female friend to keep her hands off him.

 

Close male-female friendships are fine for other people, I just wouldn't like it if my boyfriend had close female friends... he's my boyfriend, so I am the only woman who should be close to him. I don't mind other women in a group, or internet friendships, but I don't think he should be spending 1-on-1 time in person with another woman. In my parents generation, spending time alone with another woman would be called "having an affair".

[EHS]

I guess I would be jealous, because he's my boyfriend and I don't want him hanging out with another woman on their own. It's not that I wouldn't trust him; more that I wouldn't trust the female friend to keep her hands off him.

 

Close male-female friendships are fine for other people, I just wouldn't like it if my boyfriend had close female friends... he's my boyfriend, so I am the only woman who should be close to him. I don't mind other women in a group, or internet friendships, but I don't think he should be spending 1-on-1 time in person with another woman. In my parents generation, spending time alone with another woman would be called "having an affair".

 

I see your point. Things have evolved a bit since your parents' generation, of course, but naturally there still should be some boundaries. I do think group friendships are the safest way to conduct male-female friendships that occur outside of a romantic relationship. But I also don't see a big deal if a man or woman has opposite sex friendships and they spend one-on-one time with them. In fact, I think it can be very healthy! Of course, if things got physical, then that's clearly transgressing boundaries... but if the two are just friends, and don't spend more time together than the actual couple does, then I don't see a problem. I have tolerated such friendships with past relationships and indeed my husband has a couple of good female friends, and I have no issues with it whatsoever if he spends some alone time with them - provided it's all non-physical, of course. :-)

[O'Malley]

Being in a long term relationship, I've become more aware that the dynamics of friendships do shift. Priorities change, distance and scheduling all contribute.

 

I don't think it's necessarily that his girlfriend doesn't want him to have female friends (although that does happen, for varying reasons). It seems more likely that he is focusing on his new relationship, and that (to an extent) his girlfriend is fulfilling the friendship qualities that he enjoyed and sought out in you and other women. This is natural; I have guy friends of long standing, absolutely platonic and they are friends with my boyfriend as well, but my boyfriend has been my best friend for years now.

Edited August 10, 2010 by O'Malley