Using Child to 'hook' a MP?

[Spark1111]

On another thread, an OW is questioning why her xMP would bring his baby daughter around her on weekends he had custody.

 

I was impressed by the responses that felt that was wrong to do.

 

I thought so too.

 

What about someone, two weeks after a one-night stand, appeals to the MM for their help in raising a difficult child; one who has a terrible relationship with their father, her xH?

 

The MM is thrilled to be asked for guidance and advice. The MM truly feels sorry for the boy and wants to make a positive difference in his life. The MM believes the OW's stories that her xH and his new wife are horrible to the child.

 

Of course, this fuels the start of the affair.....

 

And it keeps it ongoing....the newly established relationship with this young boy and the attempt to make a difference becomes all consuming, as does the affair relationship.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Do you see that as manipulative?

[2sure]

Its manipulative to the nth degree.

The interloper uses her child and vulnerable position to appeal to the Achilles heel that most father's have. Granted, the fool who allows this appeal to family values to corrupt his family values is at fault, mostly for requiring that kind of hero worship ego feed.

 

But the interloper who felt it was her right as her own victim to do so, is reprehensible. If it was his family values that made her think this man was a good role model for her son...then when things became inappropriate she would have backed off.

[Mimolicious]

**music was playing and (insert record scratch here)**

 

What about someone, two weeks after a one-night stand, appeals to the MM for their help in raising a difficult child; one who has a terrible relationship with their father, her xH?

 

Ok, WTH is wrong with people?

 

What do you mean "appeals to the MM for their help"? What kind of help?

Like- "Oh btw, my son just snapped one key off my keyboard, do you know how I can fix it? or "hey want to come over and teach my child some manners while we have round 2?".

[TOWinNYC]

Spark, is this a hypothetical question or something that you know happened IRL?

 

I kinda paused when I read the part that said it was a "one night stand" because if it was PURELY a ONS (ie. sex only) it wouldn't have lead to anything more. No matter what.

 

I feel like there must have been something more than just a purely physical connection between the two if the MM was so willing to "help out" with the OW's son.

 

To answer your question - do I see "using the son" excuse as manipulative? Yes. But like I said in my title, you can't hook someone who doesn't want to be caught.

 

So I feel like the MM must also want to be there in the A and when the smallest opening was given ("please help me with my son") he jumped on it.

[TinaniT]

But like I said in my title, you can't hook someone who doesn't want to be caught.

 

So I feel like the MM must also want to be there in the A and when the smallest opening was given ("please help me with my son") he jumped on it.

 

I agree.

 

The idea of the MM being hooked like that just seems laughable and so much like an excuse. Not even a good excuse.

[Hazyhead]

On another thread, an OW is questioning why her xMP would bring his baby daughter around her on weekends he had custody.

 

I was impressed by the responses that felt that was wrong to do.

 

I thought so too.

 

What about someone, two weeks after a one-night stand, appeals to the MM for their help in raising a difficult child; one who has a terrible relationship with their father, her xH?

 

The MM is thrilled to be asked for guidance and advice. The MM truly feels sorry for the boy and wants to make a positive difference in his life. The MM believes the OW's stories that her xH and his new wife are horrible to the child.

 

Of course, this fuels the start of the affair.....

 

And it keeps it ongoing....the newly established relationship with this young boy and the attempt to make a difference becomes all consuming, as does the affair relationship.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Do you see that as manipulative?

 

Spark, I think the two (APs) would need need to be close enough for that to happen in the first place for him to care enough about the kid, or what the mother thinks. It wouldn't likely happen, in my opinion, after a one-night-stand. It could still be manipulative behaviour... but I just don't buy the one-night-stand.

[TOWinNYC]

Spark, I think the two (APs) would need need to be close enough for that to happen in the first place for him to care enough about the kid, or what the mother thinks. It wouldn't likely happen, in my opinion, after a one-night-stand. It could still be manipulative behaviour... but I just don't buy the one-night-stand.

 

Exactly. Which is why I asked if it was hypothetical or real.

[Spark1111]

Its manipulative to the nth degree.

The interloper uses her child and vulnerable position to appeal to the Achilles heel that most father's have. Granted, the fool who allows this appeal to family values to corrupt his family values is at fault, mostly for requiring that kind of hero worship ego feed.

 

Yes, agree on BOTH points.

 

But the interloper who felt it was her right as her own victim to do so, is reprehensible. If it was his family values that made her think this man was a good role model for her son...then when things became inappropriate she would have backed off.

 

Yes, this makes sense to me too.....

 

How can you admire a man for having great family values, yet be fueling the attraction that has developed between you both by asking for "help" with your son.

 

Seemed like a ploy to me; albeit one he did not discourage.

[Spark1111]

**music was playing and (insert record scratch here)**

 

 

 

Ok, WTH is wrong with people?

 

What do you mean "appeals to the MM for their help"? What kind of help?

Like- "Oh btw, my son just snapped one key off my keyboard, do you know how I can fix it? or "hey want to come over and teach my child some manners while we have round 2?".

 

More background....Strong, mutual attraction between coworkers. Out of town business trip, too much too drink, ensuing ONS....

 

He feels guilty--he is married---she is divorced with a young son whose educational and social problems she has confided to him...

 

Two weeks go by, and then there is another crises, and a call and an appeal to "help" her son....

[Spark1111]

Spark, is this a hypothetical question or something that you know happened IRL?

 

I kinda paused when I read the part that said it was a "one night stand" because if it was PURELY a ONS (ie. sex only) it wouldn't have lead to anything more. No matter what.

 

I feel like there must have been something more than just a purely physical connection between the two if the MM was so willing to "help out" with the OW's son.

 

To answer your question - do I see "using the son" excuse as manipulative? Yes. But like I said in my title, you can't hook someone who doesn't want to be caught.

 

So I feel like the MM must also want to be there in the A and when the smallest opening was given ("please help me with my son") he jumped on it.

 

Oh, we agree!

 

But to use your child?

[Spark1111]

Spark, I think the two (APs) would need need to be close enough for that to happen in the first place for him to care enough about the kid, or what the mother thinks. It wouldn't likely happen, in my opinion, after a one-night-stand. It could still be manipulative behaviour... but I just don't buy the one-night-stand.

 

 

Oh no...there was attraction in the workplace...and a business trip...and a ONS...and then some guilt....and then a phone call, etc.

 

But your child? Why use your child? Nothing else working too well for you?

 

Like 2sure said, that would be an Achilles for most family men.

 

Unfortunately, he felt so sorry for this boy, an ongoing pawn in his parents toxic divorce drama. She even referred to her xH constantly as The A**hole" in front of her son.

 

No wonder the kid hated daddy.

[Mimolicious]

AND how is this MM supposed to "help" her son? Is he a therapist, coach, instructor? Is he a parent himself?

[pureinheart]

Spark, is this a hypothetical question or something that you know happened IRL?

 

I kinda paused when I read the part that said it was a "one night stand" because if it was PURELY a ONS (ie. sex only) it wouldn't have lead to anything more. No matter what.

 

I feel like there must have been something more than just a purely physical connection between the two if the MM was so willing to "help out" with the OW's son.

 

To answer your question - do I see "using the son" excuse as manipulative? Yes. But like I said in my title, you can't hook someone who doesn't want to be caught.

 

So I feel like the MM must also want to be there in the A and when the smallest opening was given ("please help me with my son") he jumped on it.

 

Yep...I think this is forgotten most of the time, thanks for insight....

[Spark1111]

Devoted family man....well to his kids, not so much his wife at the time, and a coach and had some experience not only with the son's "condition" but had probably suffered from it himself as a child, though undiagnosed for that time.

 

Had tremendous empathy for the child and what he was going through....

 

She knew that, no I think she counted on that....

 

And I am not judging why or how people talk themselves into an affair, but I think the use of one's child...is just horrendous.

 

Better to be honest and say "I want you," than to use your child...for anything other than an altruistic purpose.

[Mimolicious]

Devoted family man....well to his kids, not so much his wife at the time, and a coach and had some experience not only with the son's "condition" but had probably suffered from it himself as a child, though undiagnosed for that time.

 

Had tremendous empathy for the child and what he was going through....

 

She knew that, no I think she counted on that....

 

And I am not judging why or how people talk themselves into an affair, but I think the use of one's child...is just horrendous.

 

Better to be honest and say "I want you," than to use your child...for anything other than an altruistic purpose.

 

 

Ok, then maybe here (bolded) I can udnerstand why she may ask for the help though. Why do you think she is using her kid to reel this guy in?

I mean, she is perhaps all out of luck with the kid and is reaching out to someone that can identify with him.

[Spark1111]

Because he's married and wanted to not go there again after the ONS...They had worked together....He realized the attraction and wanted to keep it platonic.

 

...did not happen after he so heroically went in to help with the child....

[BB07]

If this woman is consciously using her child as bait for something she wants, yuck, yuck, yuck! Did I say disgusting too?

 

I can see how a vulnerable man would get sucked in, because it would appeal to the man you described on so many levels, but if the man was in a good place in his life with good boundaries, it wouldn't allow himself to get caught up in her game.

[Spark1111]

If this woman is consciously using her child as bait for something she wants, yuck, yuck, yuck! Did I say disgusting too?

 

I can see how a vulnerable man would get sucked in, because it would appeal to the man you described on so many levels, but if the man was in a good place in his life with good boundaries, it wouldn't allow himself to get caught up in her game.

 

I agree BB. No one is truly an innocent here.

 

Just can't get past the "helping the child" ploy.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT, most single moms I know wait, wait, wait in a relationship before EVER introducing a man they are dating to their child.

 

They do NOT want the child to form attachments, especially to a MM???? unless the relationship has the potential to be serious and long term.

 

At least, that is what I thought good, ethical and devoted mothers did, regardless of who they may choose to sleep with.

[jennie-jennie]

Spark, from what I have read of your posts it leads me to believe this thread is about your husband and his OW. Adding it all up (hope I remember it correctly):

 

You have been talking about how the OW brought condoms with her to the business trip as if she had planned and hoped for intercourse with your husband ahead of time.

 

Now you are telling us how she used her child to reel him in after a ONS.

 

And then I believe wasn't it your husband who wanted to leave his OW half a year before Dday but didn't dare to end it because of some reason or other.

 

Either your husband is a great story teller or he is totally without any will, just subject to whatever manipulative technique his OW uses on him.

 

I am scratching my head here. If my husband told me any of these stories, I would so wonder why he was trying to put the blame on the OW instead of shouldering the responsibility for what he had done himself.

[bentnotbroken]

Spark, from what I have read of your posts it leads me to believe this thread is about your husband and his OW. Adding it all up (hope I remember it correctly):

 

You have been talking about how the OW brought condoms with her to the business trip as if she had planned and hoped for intercourse with your husband ahead of time.

 

Now you are telling us how she used her child to reel him in after a ONS.

 

And then I believe wasn't it your husband who wanted to leave his OW half a year before Dday but didn't dare to end it because of some reason or other.

 

Either your husband is a great story teller or he is totally without any will, just subject to whatever manipulative technique his OW uses on him.

 

I am scratching my head here. If my husband told me any of these stories, I would so wonder why he was trying to put the blame on the OW instead of shouldering the responsibility for what he had done himself.

 

 

I don't believe Spark is speaking of her husband, but if what you are saying is true..then he must be all split up. You know torn and can't make a decision being drug around by his cajones by everyone and every situation.

[GreenEyedLady]

Spark, from what I have read of your posts it leads me to believe this thread is about your husband and his OW. Adding it all up (hope I remember it correctly):

 

You have been talking about how the OW brought condoms with her to the business trip as if she had planned and hoped for intercourse with your husband ahead of time.

 

Now you are telling us how she used her child to reel him in after a ONS.

 

And then I believe wasn't it your husband who wanted to leave his OW half a year before Dday but didn't dare to end it because of some reason or other.

 

Either your husband is a great story teller or he is totally without any will, just subject to whatever manipulative technique his OW uses on him.

 

I am scratching my head here. If my husband told me any of these stories, I would so wonder why he was trying to put the blame on the OW instead of shouldering the responsibility for what he had done himself.

 

I agree, I thought she was talking about her H as well.

 

A MM is where he wants to be because he CHOOSES it.

 

Really, he's just making excuses to you why he did what he did so you won't be as mad or leave him etc.

 

The fact that he is still doing that means he really doesn't "get it."

 

"That big ole mean ole OW forced me into x, y and z."

 

I wonder what he told her about you.

 

I know how heartbreaking it is when someone you would die for, lies to you and blameshifts. The truth here is that he wanted to have sex with her and he did, at least twice that we know of. If he didn't like it all that much, why go back for seconds? I don't think he was being altruistic here.

 

I think he totally minimized it and he's still lying to you. If he admitted to two times it's probably WAAAAYYYY more than that.

 

Don't let him weasel his way out of growing up and taking responsibility. He hurt YOU BADLY. And lying about it or trying to blame someone else for it doesn't change that fact.

 

GEL

[BB07]

I agree BB. No one is truly an innocent here.

 

Just can't get past the "helping the child" ploy.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT, most single moms I know wait, wait, wait in a relationship before EVER introducing a man they are dating to their child.

 

They do NOT want the child to form attachments, especially to a MM???? unless the relationship has the potential to be serious and long term.

 

At least, that is what I thought good, ethical and devoted mothers did, regardless of who they may choose to sleep with.

 

 

I agree, most single moms do wait to introduce a man to their child, they want to make sure he is going to be around, and that he is worth having around.

 

However, if the mom used the child as bait.......then all bets are off.

[wheelwright]

I agree BB. No one is truly an innocent here.

 

Just can't get past the "helping the child" ploy.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT, most single moms I know wait, wait, wait in a relationship before EVER introducing a man they are dating to their child.

 

They do NOT want the child to form attachments, especially to a MM???? unless the relationship has the potential to be serious and long term.

 

At least, that is what I thought good, ethical and devoted mothers did, regardless of who they may choose to sleep with.

 

Agree with above.

 

BUT some single mums are simply desperate. Or even so shaky in themselves that they cannot see what shakes their kids. Seen it.

 

IF the single mum in question here is your H's xAP, then she behaved badly to her child. But her motivations were probably pure in that regard, if naive. He was a good dad, she needed a man to talk to, for her child to talk to. All I see is a messed up woman.

 

The manipulation is a symptom, not a cause.

 

In whether we judge her not, it gets tricky. Shouldn't she have seen the symptomatic manipulation via self-awareness and therefore avoided it? I would have I think.

 

When we are at our worst, I believe self-awareness deserts us. We all have blind spots.

 

I may be wrong here, and some behaviour is just sh**, no bones about it. But I believe empathy helps us avoid wrongly judging others, and to be on the safe side, we should give the benefit of the doubt. This has the knock on effect of greater peace of mind to boot. It's a no lose situation.

[Spark1111]

I agree, I thought she was talking about her H as well.

 

A MM is where he wants to be because he CHOOSES it.

 

Really, he's just making excuses to you why he did what he did so you won't be as mad or leave him etc.

 

The fact that he is still doing that means he really doesn't "get it."

 

"That big ole mean ole OW forced me into x, y and z."

 

I wonder what he told her about you.

 

I know how heartbreaking it is when someone you would die for, lies to you and blameshifts. The truth here is that he wanted to have sex with her and he did, at least twice that we know of. If he didn't like it all that much, why go back for seconds? I don't think he was being altruistic here.

 

I think he totally minimized it and he's still lying to you. If he admitted to two times it's probably WAAAAYYYY more than that.

 

Don't let him weasel his way out of growing up and taking responsibility. He hurt YOU BADLY. And lying about it or trying to blame someone else for it doesn't change that fact.

 

GEL

 

My H is waaaaaay too much of a gentlemen to ever bad moouth his OW to me or anyone else.

 

I wouldn't respect any attempt to disavow his actions or deflect the blame onto anyone else. Neither would he.

[Spark1111]

Agree with above.

 

BUT some single mums are simply desperate. Or even so shaky in themselves that they cannot see what shakes their kids. Seen it.

 

IF the single mum in question here is your H's xAP, then she behaved badly to her child. But her motivations were probably pure in that regard, if naive. He was a good dad, she needed a man to talk to, for her child to talk to. All I see is a messed up woman.

 

The manipulation is a symptom, not a cause.

 

In whether we judge her not, it gets tricky. Shouldn't she have seen the symptomatic manipulation via self-awareness and therefore avoided it? I would have I think.

 

When we are at our worst, I believe self-awareness deserts us. We all have blind spots.

 

I may be wrong here, and some behaviour is just sh**, no bones about it. But I believe empathy helps us avoid wrongly judging others, and to be on the safe side, we should give the benefit of the doubt. This has the knock on effect of greater peace of mind to boot. It's a no lose situation.

 

Empathy for the pain of others is the only true way to heal, IMO.

 

Taking ourselves out of our subjective, and often painful needs and clearly putting outselves in the shoes of another is the only way to gain wisdom and understanding.

 

We can operate on the "it is all about us" principle, or we can try to understand the plights, motivations and actions of others.

 

And THAT is healing, as I think you would agree.