Author Notsoeasy Posted August 4, 2010 Author Posted August 4, 2010 Gordon, it appears that you just joined also. Can you please share your connection with my story? I might be open minded if I find out a little more about you...
Dad_of_2_great_boys Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I just joined on the posting side. So far have only shared my story - been a reader for about a few weeks. Yours is the first I will add my comments to... First I am sorry that you are here. Sorry that we are both here. This thread has seemed to wander into a pro or con, stay or go discussion. One thing I will tell you is that my knowledge of my wife's infidelity is more extensive than I will ever share with her. It is with this knowledge that I have gauged the truthfulness of her responses. And sadly - she still continues to lie or trickle the truth. I believe it is human nature - to defend or justify or protect themselves that a WW does this. As I believe that our (BSs) inclination is to want to believe. It is part of the "fog" that I keep seeing/reading on this board. I think that knowledge (of your situation - not generalities) is the only way to clear the fog. You are in that fog. Don't deny this. You are hurting. It sucks. Be very careful not to try to shed that hurt to quickly. Accept that this is your situation. Do not be quick to limit your options and do not prepare for a desired outcome. You only have the power to end your marriage now. You must accept that you may be powerless to save it. Back off - and don't decide anything. Judge the actions of your WW internally and without comment or discussion. YOU set the timetable after a reasonable hiatus. The hiatus is for you to clear your mind. Do not rush this. Let your wife know you need time ( You do need time) and not to push for forgiveness or progress until you are in a place where you can truly be prepared to make a decision on the course of action you should take (stay or go). I wish you happiness and success in whatever direction you endeavor.
Author Notsoeasy Posted August 4, 2010 Author Posted August 4, 2010 Thanks Dad... This is what I am looking for...
Butchannon Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Notsoeasy, please go to this page and check out about Mr. Nice Guys. http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/ Here is forum also on marital issues. Buy a book, it will help you to set proper boundaries. I think you also write here to get approval that staying in marriage with that woman is right and you are doing right thing. You can't stand opposite suggestions. This book will also help you not to be so dependent on others' approval.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 ...is the key to recovery of your marriage, notsoeasy--if recovery is at all possible. Let's give your w the benefit of the doubt and let's assume she's sincerely remorseful. (I don't by the way make any such assumption.) Recovery requires not simply for her to improve her setting of proper boundaries. It also requires fundamental changes in personality and behavior, which will be very hard work for her, even if she's willing to do it. She has to become the kind of person who can even have proper boundaries, who understands what boundaries really mean. Otherwise, boundaries are just a set of arbitrary rules, hurdles to be gotten around, a challenge to figure out how to break them w/o getting caught. What do I mean by "absolute integrity" (absolute honesty as well?) A person with absolute integrity will be far less likely to cheat. (I won't say "never cheat", about any member of the human race. Not anymore.) They certainly will not get into a somewhat hincky situation and then just allow it to get worse and worse. Part of that is because if they have absolute integrity they cannot LIE to their spouse anymore, so if they do something wrong, they know their conscience will make them confess. Remember OP--from your point of view as the betrayed spouse, "boundaries" represent the reification of fundamental moral/ethical guidelines. A wayward spouse such as your wife views "boundaries" very differently, as essentially totally arbitrary rules imposed by outside authority to restrict behavior, with no intrinsic value or meaning. I don't know you or your wife, and most of what I'm saying IMO can and should be generalized. However in your wife's case the disregard and lack of understanding at a fundamental level of boundaries is acute. How can we be certain of this? Well one of the things that most concerns me about your wife's behavior is her absolute DISregard of some pretty basic concepts regarding medical ethics and patient confidentiality. Others have touched on it but I don't really think you fully comprehend the magnitude of what your wife's violations of medical ethics signifies for your relationship with her. First of all, she should definitely not have been using her knowledge of the patient/OM's medical history as part of her "selection" process of an affair partner. She was using his confidential info. to her own benefit. Someone else pointed this out but I think it was blown off pretty much. Second, she should not have been having sex with a patient of her facility, even if she was "just" an intern. Third, she DEFINITELY should not have disclosed ANY of the patient's/OM's confidential medical history information to YOU. This is pretty obvious. The only correct answer to any questions by you about the OM's medical status, including STD/testing history, should have been: "I'm sorry I can't tell you. It's confidential." That's HIPAA (federal law governing confidentiality of health care info). All these issues were completely ignored by your wife, DESPITE the fact that she is currently in school in the health care field as her chosen profession. So she has no real conception of what "boundaries" mean. From her point of view, they are just arbitrary rules. If she can't respect a patient's right to privacy in his medical information, albeit he was OM and she was trying to get herself out of a personal jam, what makes you think she has the capacity to set or respect any boundaries now--after she's been caught cheating? Understanding the difference between "boundaries" as arbitrary rules imposed by outside authority and as valuable fundamental guidelines in themselves is a critical part of developing from a child to an adult and necessary for emotional maturity. I think a lot of cheaters are just like your wife. They've never really "grown up" to understand the purpose of having rules. To a child, a 10:00 p.m. curfew is just an arbitrary rule imposed by an adult authority figure to "spoil the fun" the child planned on having that evening. Breaking the curfew/"the rule" only matter if the outside authority imposes a consequence, and if the consequence can be avoided, either by deception or by double talk if caught, then the child does not see a negative to breaking the rule. The adult however understands the purpose of such a rule is not just to exert arbitrary authority and power. The child needs sleep to go to school refreshed the next day. Also, if the child stays out late, the child could get into trouble (drinking, drugs, crime). Your wife, like many other cheaters, I suspect is like the child who has been caught breaking curfew. The remorse being expressed isn't coming from a fundamental understanding of the importance of the curfew/boundary and what it means; but rather, to avoid a feared consequence (losing allowance/divorce). Now perhaps my analogy is imprecise but I hope at least the point is getting across. You cannot expect your wife to change overnight. It takes years of personal growth, even if she is willing to try to achieve it. Part of the necessary personal growth required to save your marriage, IMO, is that your wife must voluntarily begin to accept the full consequences for her actions, as a mature, remorseful adult would; even if she does not yet UNDERSTAND WHY. The "why" of it is, that the only hope for her to achieve and internalize those notions of absolute integrity is to follow them, even if she doesn't yet understand. Maybe she will never internalize integrity; many cheaters never do. But she has to at least want to try. What does this require? Unfortunately--because doing what I suggest needs to be done is likely to impose a tremendous personal, finanacial and professional hardship on BOTH of you--I sincerely believe that she has to REPORT HER CONDUCT both to the facility where she was externing, and to the educational institution she is attending, without excuses, and she will have to be fully accepting of whatever consequences may be imposed upon her. Those could be minimal or they could be quite severe. Depending on the particular honor code followed by her school, she might face possible suspension or expulsion. If she is required to be licensed by a state authority, e.g. a nursing board, she may have to face formal or informal ethics charges. What she did is very very serious stuff. She had sex with a patient under her care, she used her knowledge of his personal medical info to her personal advantage, AND she disclosed some of the patient's personal medical history/STD testing info. to someone it should not have been disclosed to--yourself. Or at least I think she MAY have violated what I think are ethical and legal rules which regulate people in the health care professions. If she did or if she didn't, clearly she needs to report herself to the proper authorities, and take whatever consequences are imposed. Will it be convenient or expedient for her to do this? Not for her. And, not for YOU. But it is the RIGHT thing to do. Only by INSISTING that she following the path of doing what is RIGHT, even if the consequences will hurt YOU as well as herself--heck the shear public humiliation of it will be horrible for both of you even if there are other consequences-- will it perhaps be possible for her to perhaps with luck and hard work, eventually internalize the concept of being a person of absolute integrity. I hope you fully understand what I am trying to say. I am NOT advocating that she expose herself and accept punishment for punishment's sake. I am advocating that she ACT in an absolutely honest manner--and honesty here includes disclosure of her wrongful acts to the proper authorities--even if she doesn't understand why. If she is not willing to do this, then unfortunately I have little hope for your marriage. My suspicion is that she will do everything in her power to avoid such disclosure (to school, job, and professional authorities) because that could crash her dreams to the ground and destroy years of hard work. That is a chance she will have to take; it's not necessarily the case that something like this will result in any punishment. But that's not her--or your--call any longer. Not if you want to save your marriage. Because you can't ever expect her to be honest with YOU in the future if you're willing to tolerate continued dishonesty/concealment by her, simply because it is expedient. I know this will sound harsh and perhaps like very tough medicine. But the illness your wife suffers from is often incurable, and the necessary medicine can be very tough to swallow. This is exactly what everyone was trying to tell him, but his mirrors are too fogged up to see the monster sitting behind him.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Not at all, but you're evading the point I was making. I never proclaimed myself an expert on anything. Others on this thread, and on your wife's, have pointed to possible medical ethical breaches, and I guess if you want to play "lawyer" on behalf of your wife (I don't know maybe you are a lawyer?) that's fine--but that kind of thinking won't help your marriage one little bit. The point is that your wife--and YOU--must be honest and forthcoming about what she did, with the proper authorities--her employer, and her school, and if necessary her licensing board for her profession--since THEY are "the experts" and let THEM decide if there was or was not a violation. She, and YOU, must be absolutely HONEST and forthcoming for its OWN SAKE. The consequences, if any, will be what they will be. If you're confident that she committed no infractions of any ethical rules, then you and she should have NOTHING TO FEAR from disclosure. Do you see how simple the "logic of honesty" is? If she did something wrong, she should accept the consequences; if it turns out she did nothing wrong, there won't be any. Either way--the only possible path is full honesty and disclosure. Since you are not an expert, as I am not, the can we agree at least that the experts should decide? That would be her employer and her school. Maybe students/employees have affairs with patients/former patients all the time and therefore this is a great big nothing. Again--that's simply not your call nor your wife's at this point. Well you bring up a very interesting point. You don't really know the full extent of what she actually did and didn't do. You only know what she's told you so far. This is simply yet another reason for her to report her actions to the proper authorities and let them do whatever they think to be appropriate--which may well be absolutely nothing. Right now, you are full-on rationalizing what she did to protect her and yourself against disclosure. This response is typical, expected, and quite understandable, but it is exactly the WRONG thing to do if you want to model honesty and integrity to your spouse. You are looking for "the easy way out." There IS no "easy way out." At a minimum, your spouse needs to have a consultation with an attorney to get appropriate legal advice about what she should or should not do. Then at least if she doesn't out herself, she has an attorney's advice to fall back on as an excuse. Of course you should also be talking to your own attorney to protect your marital interests but that's another story entirely. Of course if she talks to an attorney, he may be able to justify not telling. That might be what she should do as a legal strategy (it may not be; an attorney may counsel disclosure) but the point is concealment would NOT be an appropriate strategy for your marital health, because it conveys to your wife that it's OK for her to do this kind of stuff as long as she doesn't get caught, and her h will be her accomplice. That may not be the message you are trying to communicate, but it will be the message she receives. OK whoa stop wait a second here. Look at what you wrote that I bolded. IF SHE HASN'T DISCLOSED THE OM'S NAME TO YOU, THEN SHE IS NOT SORRY, SHE IS NOT REMORSEFUL, AND SHE IS SIMPLY GASLIGHTING (E.G. LYING TO YOU TO THE POINT OF MAKING YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING CRAZY). Identifying the OM to you is STEP ONE on the road to recovery. By not identifying him, she is PROTECTING HIM and therefore putting him ahead of you. Most likely their affair is still continuing or will be resumed when they can work around to it. Given that she hasn't even told you who the OM is, you can pretty much forget any other advice you've gotten so far, other than to see a good divorce lawyer, protect your rights, and file for divorce as soon as possible. Your marriage is over. She does not want to reconcile. She is simply buying time until she finishes her degree. If she doesn't end up with this OM, she will find someone else--maybe she has her eye on one of the doctors at the facility? It actually sounds like the affair with the patient/OM was a "practice" affair to get her feet wet, assuming she hasn't ever done this before, which is a pretty big assumption. Therefore since you WILL be getting divorced, either when you decide you've finally had enough, or when she decides to walk out on you, I will now reverse course and recommend she does not disclose the info. to the authorities, as that might impair her ability to earn income, which would hurt you in terms of potential alimony/spousal support in a divorce case. Get your house in order and your ducks in a row. This is not just about you, this is about protecting your daughter as well, financially and emotionally. Staying married to a remorseless cheater, which your wife fairly evidently is, provides a terrible example for your daughter. Get out of this. :eek:I thought that she told him what was OM's name. Wow, new information has just came to light, and the poor buddy is still sticking to her at the cost of his sanity. Too bad he won't think about putting that loyalty to a REAL FAITHFUL WOMAN. (*sighs*) Oh yea, buddy, his marriage is definitely over just like I, and everyone else intended or suspected. Wow, its funny how WSs can fool a lot of people around them. I'm glad I left my marriage while the going was good, because this is why I never took her back.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 His WS still needs to tell her superiors about this "medical affair," even if she or the BS decides to man-up and divorce.
You Go Girl Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I just took a lot of time to read this entire thread! Notsoeasy--you do need to know exactly who the OM is. You need full disclosure from your wife including where he lives, address, email, and cell phone, etc. of this man. You need these things because you need to be able to go back on things like her cell phone records and see the pattern, time of day, etc., of all calls to him. If she used a work phone to call him or a friend's phone, she needs to disclose that too. What you need for healing to ever be a possibility is all the gory details. That means the details of each encounter that led up to the infidelity, the discussions they had, the details of the actual sex they had, how big her orgasm was if she had one. Sorry to be so frank, but this is the disclosure that not only you need, but that she needs to reveal. As long as she is able to keep some of the painful things she did to herself, she won't have to examine herself. Nothing will bring her closer to remorse than having to reveal all. More importantly, nothing will bring your marriage to a point of recovery than her having to reveal all. There will finally be transparency in a marriage that suffered the ultimate consequence of a lack of transparency in feelings, motivations, behaviors, and all the things that enabled her to mentally get to the point where she could conduct an affair at all. That's what intimacy is. That's what was lacking. It is still lacking. This transparency and revealing all is the next step to any possible recovery and future chance of true intimacy between the two of you.
Bryanp Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Wow - I had no idea that she refused to give you the name of the OM. This is a really really bad sign. Why would she not? Maybe she is fearful that you will confront him and check his story with hers. Maybe she fears that you will contact his spouse which means the affair will be permanently over as well as any friendship. The bottom line it seems to me is that she is protecting the OM and in fact is prioritizing him over you. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions of refusing to tell you who he is speaks volumes. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think your wife would be so accepting as you have been and not push to fine out the name of your lover? I know that you love your wife very much but at the very least you need to know who this OM is. You could be at an event and he could be their and you would not know but your wife and him would know. I am sorry but she continues to disrespect you but not giving you his name. How can you not see this? I wish you luck.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I just took a lot of time to read this entire thread! Notsoeasy--you do need to know exactly who the OM is. You need full disclosure from your wife including where he lives, address, email, and cell phone, etc. of this man. You need these things because you need to be able to go back on things like her cell phone records and see the pattern, time of day, etc., of all calls to him. If she used a work phone to call him or a friend's phone, she needs to disclose that too. What you need for healing to ever be a possibility is all the gory details. That means the details of each encounter that led up to the infidelity, the discussions they had, the details of the actual sex they had, how big her orgasm was if she had one. Sorry to be so frank, but this is the disclosure that not only you need, but that she needs to reveal. As long as she is able to keep some of the painful things she did to herself, she won't have to examine herself. Nothing will bring her closer to remorse than having to reveal all. More importantly, nothing will bring your marriage to a point of recovery than her having to reveal all. There will finally be transparency in a marriage that suffered the ultimate consequence of a lack of transparency in feelings, motivations, behaviors, and all the things that enabled her to mentally get to the point where she could conduct an affair at all. That's what intimacy is. That's what was lacking. It is still lacking. This transparency and revealing all is the next step to any possible recovery and future chance of true intimacy between the two of you. And just exactly how much more pain and blocks does this man has to endure to even recover, let alone the other issues that need to be dealt with. By evidence, she has no remorse for what she has done, and this guy has given her too many chances to step up to the plate, when he really didn't need to in the first place. The affair is still ongoing and he doesn't even know the identity of the OM!! She has been disrespectful to everyone around her continuously and has tarnished her dreams of becoming a successful medical officer.
Church Bells Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 OK guys (other BH's responding to this thread) ... let's review: All of us have dealt with our WW adultery in our own ways ... and many of us have been a part of online infidelity forums for several years ... Have any of you EVER seen a BH this dense? Have any of you EVER seen a BH who DIDN'T want to know what was going on in their lives? Have any of you EVER seen a BH so willing to forgive and move on while admittedly not knowing even who the OM was? Have any of you EVER seen a BH get defensive to the point of anger at other BH's, who are doing nothing but pointing out the OBVIOUS? Through my experiences with infidelity, when something seems so unreal as to be unbelieveable ... it likely is UNBELIEVEABLE!!! I think I'm done with Notsoeasy until I see some shread of evidence that he is NOT either ... a troll ... or a BH who is sooo whipped that he is beyond our help here at LS.
confusedinkansas Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 using her knowledge of the patient/OM's medical history as part of her "selection" process of an affair partner. She was using his confidential info. to her own benefit. I've read both threads & I don't see where she purposly looked at the OM's medical file JUST so that she could have sex with him. Notsoeasy - Is that right? I think you are being way too optimistic, naive, and passive with all of this. When did optimism become a bad thing?? - some people are just programmed to be passive, naive & optimistic! (In all areas of life, not just this) IMO I think that both these folks love each other & are trying as hard as they know how to stay together. I am obviously an advocate for that. I believe that if there's any ounce of love in a marriage - it can rebound from something like this. Notsoeasy. - You will go thru a plethora of emotions. Right now it's all new to you. Taking TIME is probably your best avenue in dealing with this. Sorry I don't have any other specific HOW TO's to add. In my situation - My husband asked questions - the first few days. He then sort of became introverted. He didn't really "talk" to me for probably a few weeks. As I think back, that is probably the time where he was trying to figure out in his own mind what he might do. I will say this about that time - From that very day I became 100% transparent to him. He has (even still) access, if he wants, to all my email accounts & my phone. (He's stopped asking BTW) I think he is very much like you & you very much like him. You aren't going to knee jerk - You married your wife FOREVER. Which is why people like you are the forgivers of the world. I don't take infidelity lightly (as many think I do) What she did was not a good thing. She will beat herself up over it for years. BUT - You will both eventually stop making it the main topic of conversation & get on with things. But right now, it's all you are both thinking of. Wow - I had no idea that she refused to give you the name of the OM. This is a really really bad sign. Why would she not? Editing...........Notsoeasy - I didn't realize this - - - - This is NOT a good sign.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 OK guys (other BH's responding to this thread) ... let's review: All of us have dealt with our WW adultery in our own ways ... and many of us have been a part of online infidelity forums for several years ... Have any of you EVER seen a BH this dense? Have any of you EVER seen a BH who DIDN'T want to know what was going on in their lives? Have any of you EVER seen a BH so willing to forgive and move on while admittedly not knowing even who the OM was? Have any of you EVER seen a BH get defensive to the point of anger at other BH's, who are doing nothing but pointing out the OBVIOUS? Through my experiences with infidelity, when something seems so unreal as to be unbelieveable ... it likely is UNBELIEVEABLE!!! I think I'm done with Notsoeasy until I see some shread of evidence that he is NOT either ... a troll ... or a BH who is sooo whipped that he is beyond our help here at LS. I agree. He came on here to ask for help, but just like a WS, he wants advice that will approve of his actions that are tearing his marriage apart. Even the BSs who have successful marriages told him that if he's willing to make his marriage better, that he will have to grow some balls and put his foot down in the relationship or when he decides to divorce (which he should've done the first moment he found out). He doesn't understand that no matter how different everyone's advice sounds, that we are still telling him the same thing: grow some balls. But no, he doesn't like the fact that in order to achieve something he has to work hard for it.
Hazyhead Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 (edited) OK guys (other BH's responding to this thread) ... let's review: All of us have dealt with our WW adultery in our own ways ... and many of us have been a part of online infidelity forums for several years ... Have any of you EVER seen a BH this dense? Have any of you EVER seen a BH who DIDN'T want to know what was going on in their lives? Have any of you EVER seen a BH so willing to forgive and move on while admittedly not knowing even who the OM was? Have any of you EVER seen a BH get defensive to the point of anger at other BH's, who are doing nothing but pointing out the OBVIOUS? Through my experiences with infidelity, when something seems so unreal as to be unbelieveable ... it likely is UNBELIEVEABLE!!! I think I'm done with Notsoeasy until I see some shread of evidence that he is NOT either ... a troll ... or a BH who is sooo whipped that he is beyond our help here at LS. Agreed. This thread and the other on the Cheating board... they both seem almost staged. I've been following it for entertainment purposes but buying it? No way. If you're even a tiny bit genuine Notsoeasy, you've received excellent advice but thrown it back at people. I think you want to hear that it will get better with time and that you should just trust her and the magic will happen. There's a reason you're not really getting that advice. Edited August 4, 2010 by Hazyhead
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Thanks Dad... This is what I am looking for... I'm going to suggest you read this thread. You should be able to identify with this guy and it will give you an idea how to handle your emotional states. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t40398/
You Go Girl Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 And just exactly how much more pain and blocks does this man has to endure to even recover, let alone the other issues that need to be dealt with. By evidence, she has no remorse for what she has done, and this guy has given her too many chances to step up to the plate, when he really didn't need to in the first place. The affair is still ongoing and he doesn't even know the identity of the OM!! She has been disrespectful to everyone around her continuously and has tarnished her dreams of becoming a successful medical officer. There's no proof whatsoever that the affair is ongoing. No proof that it isn't either, since the OM is a mystery. Apparently the man trusts his wife that it is over. I don't agree with the trash her medical degree business. She conducted the relationship after and outside of the medical profession. Just like with a professor, he may not date a student while she is his student, but he may after the fact. There is no lawful reason at that point for the professor to confess to the university board who he is sleeping with. The H definitely needs to know the identity of the OM, and that's just for starters.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 There's no proof whatsoever that the affair is ongoing. No proof that it isn't either, since the OM is a mystery. Apparently the man trusts his wife that it is over. I don't agree with the trash her medical degree business. She conducted the relationship after and outside of the medical profession. Just like with a professor, he may not date a student while she is his student, but he may after the fact. There is no lawful reason at that point for the professor to confess to the university board who he is sleeping with. The H definitely needs to know the identity of the OM, and that's just for starters. She even admitted it herself. It was still wrong for what she did and it breaks the law. And just like a professor, he can still be fired for ****ing one of his students, and morally, that is disgusting. You say no affair is going on at this point but she can't even tell her husband who the OM is. I call bull****, and your view is highly insulting.
JustJoe Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 The success rate for reconciliation in marriages, obviously, changes with time. That "over 50% of marriages survive", is very short-term. During my affair, I studied as many statistics, as I could find, and the results are not encouraging. From what I've read, approx. 50% of marriages survive infidelity, short-term (0 to 2 years after disclosure), but this number falls off dramatically in the long-term, to something like 15% or less. The reasons given for this are A) the underlying reasons for the dysfunction in the marriage are not corrected. B) there is a repeat of the affair (with the same OP or another). C) Both the BS and WS are either unwilling or unable to consign the affair to history. So you see what you're up against, Notsoeasy. Most studies state that those marriages that DO survive, do so because the WS is truly repentant, the BS is (after a time) willing to forgive, and completely open and honest communication is maintained, throughout and after the reconciliation process. When you can PM, Notsoeasy, I'll link you to a number of places, that will give you food for thought.
Gfkr2 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 OK guys (other BH's responding to this thread) ... let's review: All of us have dealt with our WW adultery in our own ways ... and many of us have been a part of online infidelity forums for several years ... Have any of you EVER seen a BH this dense? Have any of you EVER seen a BH who DIDN'T want to know what was going on in their lives? Have any of you EVER seen a BH so willing to forgive and move on while admittedly not knowing even who the OM was? Have any of you EVER seen a BH get defensive to the point of anger at other BH's, who are doing nothing but pointing out the OBVIOUS? Through my experiences with infidelity, when something seems so unreal as to be unbelieveable ... it likely is UNBELIEVEABLE!!! I think I'm done with Notsoeasy until I see some shread of evidence that he is NOT either ... a troll ... or a BH who is sooo whipped that he is beyond our help here at LS. ....it's called being Kitty Whipped:laugh:
Dexter Morgan Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Wow Dex, must be nice to be gifted with that perfect "fly on the wall" perspective so that you can judge every aspect of Mr. and Mrs. Notsoeasy's approach to this. in case you haven't read his posts, he is excusing her action. he is also putting this on the OM. "she's lying, she'll cheat again, she's not remorseful, she's not contrite, she's not sorry" show me where I said any of this. I'm just trying to get him to open his eyes and not downplay her role in it all.
Dexter Morgan Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I agree but any advice that tells the OP to simply throw his wife away with no other qualification for doing so does indeed deserve to be ignored for the projecting knee-jerk reaction that it is. then you haven't read the posts close enough. there may be a small few that simply say, "JUST DIVORCE" without saying why, but all that I have seen that are telling him that might be his best option has stated why.
Dexter Morgan Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Hey Dex..., Did you make an irrational decision, based on emotion, without further investigation, and that is why you are so bitter towards this scenerio? I don't mean to be mean, but you are another bitter person, who seems to be harboring some anger/resentment, and doesn't seem to care about my happiness with my Wife? Just curious??? you know what, its now painfully obvious that you are only wanting to hear opinions that support your coddling of your wife and whatever tells you that you should stay with your wife. knowing that I can now only say, forgive her and leave her alone about it. you are making excuses for her, so quit fretting over it. If the OM is the predator here and your wife was young and stupid, then leave her alone about it and move on with your life with her. If I am so off base, then there is no reason for you to complain about this further. Forgive her and move on.
GordonDarkfoot Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Gordon, it appears that you just joined also. Can you please share your connection with my story? I have no connection with you, your spouse, or your story. I might be open minded if I find out a little more about you... Why should knowledge of my history/background cause you to be more or less open minded? Don't expect to find "answers" by relying on the supposed "credibility" or "background" of anyone posting on the internet, or anyone in real life. I submit two major points in your thread, the same two I tend to advocate in anyone's thread, not just on a relationship web site but any other website in which differences of opinion are up for discussion. 1. Try to gather as much verifiable, objective information as you can. In your case the only source of factual information is "off board." I can't provide you with any. 2. With the facts which are available, try to use logical reasoning including a range of fairly reasonable inductions/deductions to try to arrive at a workable plan of action, or at least, to narrow things down while you try to gather more objective information and process it. Based on the two principles espoused above, my background (or my possibly false claims of what my background are) should be irrelevant to you. You have been betrayed in the worst possible way by the person who should be closest to you. That's an "objective fact." She not only cheated on you, she lied about it, and didn't reveal anything until she was caught. Again, that's a fact. She's had relations with a patient/former patient, and there are possible ethical implications. Fact. She hasn't disclosed very basic essential information about her affair, namely, identity of the OM. Fact. Nothing about my background or personal story changes those facts. I'm telling you my opinion--not a "fact"--that if you want to have a marriage with absolute integrity and honesty, that has to go straight down to the bone. Again, that's my opinion, not a fact, which you are certainly not required to accept or have an "open mind" about. But if not, then maybe you can tell me: How does one have an honest marriage and an honest wife and an honest life if neither the wife or husband is prepared to be totally honest? I simply don't know of a way that can happen, but maybe you do. (Honesty includes full honesty, that is, willingness to disclose relevant facts which might be important to someone else, not just avoiding an outright affirmative lie.) Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 It seems like people are giving up... Oh well, an old saying: "Can't help others that don't want to be helped."
GordonDarkfoot Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 It seems like people are giving up... Oh well, an old saying: "Can't help others that don't want to be helped." I don't think I've given up. I think it's difficult when immersed in a situation like OP is right now to be rational about it. Therefore I've asked OP a sincere question which is generalized but goes to "first principles." Hopefully this will allow him to step back a little from his own situation and start thinking about what he really wants from a relationship. It's up to OP if he wants to have that kind of discussion of course, but I think it's helpful to be able to step back from the emotion of the moment and do some thinking about WHY we want a relationship in the first place and WHAT we want that relationship to be. My question was and is: But if not, then maybe you can tell me: How does one have an honest marriage and an honest wife and an honest life if neither the wife or husband is prepared to be totally honest?
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