A woman's non physical attractive traits.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You've got some sort of phobia about two working people raising children that strikes me as quite odd. Significant risk? So silly. The risk comes in when the people stop paying attention to their children, working or not.

 

Seriously, that sounds absolutely ideal nothing like that available in my home town. Did you grow up in California?

[SassyKitten]

What is this natural order you are on about?

 

The same natural order you have been harping on about endlessly about the man should lead.

 

And I have many friends who are European, and my conversations with them suggest that the glass ceiling is much less apparant in Europe than it is here.

 

If you do find a woman who is what you want and who will stay by you for more than a few months without getting repulsed, I can guarantee you she is only after you for your money. Unless she's extremely religious. In which case good luck having sex with her before you put a ring on her finger.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'm not obliged to say and I will date many women, just not Yank women. I have heard stories and every American man I have spoken to prefers our country's women and prefers European women in general.

 

If your from England then I'll pass. You can keep those ladies all to yourself... actually... please keep them somewhere far away.

 

No dating experience with women from other countries in Europe, although my best friend is dating a woman from Austria and she seems great! Also I have friends in German and Norway... and they seem very datable.

[zengirl]

Seriously, that sounds absolutely ideal nothing like that available in my home town. Did you grow up in California?

 

Naw, Florida. But my Mom was excellent at finding ways to pay for things we couldn't afford and prioritized me and my education. I was in rich kid (well solidly middle class) preschool when we were nearly homeless. I learned how to read at age 3 and was reading chapter books by Kindergarten because of that preschool and her. She made me smart; my Mom is good like that.

 

Anyway, I'm not saying crap situations don't exist. There are ways to supplement for these things, as smart people like my Mom can find, but it's often the working poor, especially those without cultural capital to navigate things --- and who have to work anyway regardless of their views on gender and somesuch --- that get screwed in situations like you describe. We do need to do more to regulate childcare (always) and make good options affordable to the working poor.

[Kamille]

There are ways to supplement for these things, as smart people like my Mom can find, but it's often the working poor, especially those without cultural capital to navigate things --- and who have to work anyway regardless of their views on gender and somesuch --- that get screwed in situations like you describe.

 

Finally, a fan of Bourdieu! No wonder I like what you write Zen girl.

[Sphere]

If your from England then I'll pass. You can keep those ladies all to yourself... actually... please keep them somewhere far away.

 

No dating experience with women from other countries in Europe, although my best friend is dating a woman from Austria and she seems great! Also I have friends in German and Norway... and they seem very datable.

 

No, I'm not from England and I agree English women aren't great, nor are Scottish and Welsh women, but they are a damn sight better than American women. American are the most attractive, everytime I go to America, I'm surrounded by gorgeous women, it's their attitudes that are beyond the pale for me and put me off, plus the stupid accents are irritating to say the least.

[zengirl]

If your from England then I'll pass. You can keep those ladies all to yourself... actually... please keep them somewhere far away.

 

No dating experience with women from other countries in Europe, although my best friend is dating a woman from Austria and she seems great! Also I have friends in German and Norway... and they seem very datable.

 

You know, I dated a British boy, and he was fantastic. Actually, all the Brits I've met here are more open and accepting of both feminism and gay rights than the Americans I know back home. I went out with quite a few Brits here, so if Sphere is a Brit, I'm going to say he's an outlier and not blame all the poor fellows over there. They seem like a good enough lot. And English women always seem sardonic, witty, and wonderfully independent for me, so I can't imagine they'd be his cuppa.

 

That said, the one thing I didn't like about Brits was them calling me a Yank (I'm from the south, for better or worse, so it sounds weird), so I get where you went there with the assumption on his verbiage.

[Sphere]

The same natural order you have been harping on about endlessly about the man should lead.

 

And I have many friends who are European, and my conversations with them suggest that the glass ceiling is much less apparant in Europe than it is here.

 

If you do find a woman who is what you want and who will stay by you for more than a few months without getting repulsed, I can guarantee you she is only after you for your money. Unless she's extremely religious. In which case good luck having sex with her before you put a ring on her finger.

 

Sticks and Stones, Sassy, Sticks and Stones. Just go and cry about being dumped three days before you were due to go on holiday. Let it all out, it's so much better to weep than to let it rise on the inside.

 

You'll feel much better, I guarantee it.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Naw, Florida. But my Mom was excellent at finding ways to pay for things we couldn't afford and prioritized me and my education. I was in rich kid (well solidly middle class) preschool when we were nearly homeless. I learned how to read at age 3 and was reading chapter books by Kindergarten because of that preschool and her. She made me smart; my Mom is good like that.

Anyway, I'm not saying crap situations don't exist. There are ways to supplement for these things, as smart people like my Mom can find, but it's often the working poor, especially those without cultural capital to navigate things --- and who have to work anyway regardless of their views on gender and somesuch --- that get screwed in situations like you describe. We do need to do more to regulate childcare (always) and make good options affordable to the working poor.

 

I grew up in a more rural area. A town of about 60,000 or so. Your lucky your mother prioritized that and had the means to take care of you. Seriously there is no substitute for good parents! You should always be grateful.

 

You are correct education starts and ends with your parents. My father read to me every night for several years, but for some reason it didn't catch on. I was illiterate until almost the end of the second grade, but by 4th I was 2 grades ahead... so it must have sunk in somewhere.

 

I think instead of just making daycare more affordable... we should also make it easier for one parent to care for the children.

[SassyKitten]

Also, some of the most sexist men I've met in my lifetime have been American. Not that it is representative of the whole, as I know plenty more American men who are nice.

 

And an accountant friend of mine in Ireland told me that the accounting profession in Europe is actually female dominated. He's talking about making a life for himself doing maternity cover temping contracts, which doesn't sound like a bad life.

[zengirl]

I think instead of just making daycare more affordable... we should also make it easier for one parent to care for the children.

 

Sure. I also think all daycare should be learning-based. Preschool is actually good for a child---it's better even for kids who have a parent at home (and many of those kids go!). It gives kids a space to learn how to be with other kids---they can't really work together till it's developmentally sound, but early exposure helps---and there are A LOT of academic skills that need to be developed before children are school-age. It's crucial for the development of literacy, and having people who actually know how to teach young children around your kids is a benefit, even if you have all the time to spend with them 24/7. Most people aren't an expert on that.

[SassyKitten]

I grew up first in Memphis, then a small midwestern town of 35,000.

 

One development of the 21st Century that I am liking is the emergence of telecommuting. Then one or both parents can do some or all of their work from home, depending on the nature of their work, without giving up their income and their economic standing. If that does take off, then that is the only way I would be a stay at home mother.

 

As far as accounting goes, realistically unless I'm self-employed I would have to do at least some of my days in the office, some from home. If I end up having my children with, say, an IT professional, then he can probably telecommute easily.

[Sphere]

You know, I dated a British boy, and he was fantastic. Actually, all the Brits I've met here are more open and accepting of both feminism and gay rights than the Americans I know back home. I went out with quite a few Brits here, so if Sphere is a Brit, I'm going to say he's an outlier and not blame all the poor fellows over there. They seem like a good enough lot. And English women always seem sardonic, witty, and wonderfully independent for me, so I can't imagine they'd be his cuppa.

 

That said, the one thing I didn't like about Brits was them calling me a Yank (I'm from the south, for better or worse, so it sounds weird), so I get where you went there with the assumption on his verbiage.

 

I don't acknowledge Britain. I am Welsh and Welsh only. There is no such thing as Britain in my eyes.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Sure. I also think all daycare should be learning-based. Preschool is actually good for a child---it's better even for kids who have a parent at home (and many of those kids go!). It gives kids a space to learn how to be with other kids---they can't really work together till it's developmentally sound, but early exposure helps---and there are A LOT of academic skills that need to be developed before children are school-age. It's crucial for the development of literacy, and having people who actually know how to teach young children around your kids is a benefit, even if you have all the time to spend with them 24/7. Most people aren't an expert on that.

 

I agree, but the biggest argument I get on this is that studies actually show any and all gains children receive from early childhood learning programs are erased by the 3rd grade. My belief is that this phenomenon is caused by poor elementary school education.

 

I don't acknowledge Britain. I am Welsh and Welsh only. There is no such thing as Britain in my eyes.

 

You can't be serious. :laugh: Your Welsh?

[Sphere]

.

You can't be serious. :laugh: Your Welsh?

 

Yes, I am Welsh.

 

It's better than being an American. I can go anywhere in the world without my country being responsible for hundreds of millions of death. Unnecessary wars and of course I don't have to hide the fact I am Welsh in places like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

 

Oh and my country men never suffered at the hands of the Vietnamese either.

[zengirl]

I agree, but the biggest argument I get on this is that studies actually show any and all gains children receive from early childhood learning programs are erased by the 3rd grade. My belief is that this phenomenon is caused by poor elementary school education.

 

High class sizes and de facto segregation have the system pretty broken. I didn't become a teacher right away primarily because the system is so bad (though most suggestions to fix it only make it worse; we are terrible at doing anything that increases the overall health of a system and always go for good PR with random "accountability" -- not a bad idea in theory; just the practice of it -- and quick fixes that leave us unsatisfied). At any rate, we're veering off-topic. America has social problems, sure, but they've little to do with gender equality and more to do with being (a) human and alive and (b) a big, diverse nation with a lot of ugly things in our past.

[SassyKitten]

Our government definitely made a bad name for us, and the vast amount of money that was spend on the Iraq invasion definitely could have been better spent keeping our own house in order. Judging by the vast divide here between rich and poor and the crime rate that results from that.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yes, I am Welsh.

It's better than being an American. I can go anywhere in the world without my country being responsible for hundreds of millions of death. Unnecessary wars and of course I don't have to hide the fact I am Welsh in places like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Oh and my country men never suffered at the hands of the Vietnamese either.

 

Your country couldn't be responsible for the death of anyone... that would require the ability to win something.

 

Part of being American is not having to cower in fear. Sure there are like 3 countries I shouldn't visit.

 

Oh... and the Vietnamese are amazingly good fighters. I'd take an army of them any day. They knocked out the Japanese and the French before we even got there. I don't mind losing to them, besides we didn't have that good of a reason to be there.

[Sphere]

Your country couldn't be responsible for the death of anyone... that would require the ability to win something.

 

Part of being American is not having to cower in fear. Sure there are like 3 countries I shouldn't visit.

 

Oh... and the Vietnamese are amazingly good fighters. I'd take an army of them any day. They knocked out the Japanese and the French before we even got there. I don't mind losing to them, besides we didn't have that good of a reason to be there.

 

You mean win a war? So a country is a sh*t country if it doesn't win a war? Well the Americans are getting their backsides handed to them out in the Middle East, isn't over 1000 servicemen killed in Iraq? Isn't it nearly 1000 in Afghanistan?

 

I'd rather no see my fellow country men die for blood and oil for a cause that is not our own. The Welsh have no reason to declare war on anyone, we just want our own sovereignty and to be left alone by the likes of England.

[dispatch3d]

Well you're just huffing and puffing as you're a chauvinist little piggy who can't handle the idea that a woman can be anything besides young, dumb, and full of cum.

 

I'm certainly too good for you. As for other men, I am certainly worthy of at least one of them, and who is better than the men who have sexually assaulted me, largely because of this "natural order" that you swear by.

 

**** you.

 

Lol look I'm friends with a feminist right now. And I actually ENJOY talking about feminism with her. As long as she doesn't get some kinda man-hate on.

 

Sassykitten here on the other hand, seems to definitely hate men. Especially with the whole "who is better than the men who have sexually assaulted me". Wtf? I realize you are pissed at some other dude here, but guys aren't doing ANYTHING wrong by hitting on you/dating you/whatever! She isn't really asking to lead either, or looking for equality. She's saying she WILL NOT follow the lead of some guy (ie. at the minimum they will be equals). I seriously can't even get along with girls like sassykitten. The attitude just violates some kinda inner man-need I have. I'd assume most guys are like this but I don't know.

 

Anyhow talk about a major derail.

 

Things I look for (not in this order):

 

(1) Intelligence

(2) Socially active/has lots of friends!

(3) Friendly

(4) Fiesty/If I push her she pushes back (ie. I can't date a nice girl)

(5) Can banter. It's pretty fun to do.

(6) Good sense of humour. Not necessarily funny, but will actually laugh/isn't super serious. Kinds goes with (3).

(7) Giving and Caring.

[Untouchable_Fire]

High class sizes and de facto segregation have the system pretty broken. I didn't become a teacher right away primarily because the system is so bad (though most suggestions to fix it only make it worse; we are terrible at doing anything that increases the overall health of a system and always go for good PR with random "accountability" -- not a bad idea in theory; just the practice of it -- and quick fixes that leave us unsatisfied). At any rate, we're veering off-topic. America has social problems, sure, but they've little to do with gender equality and more to do with being (a) human and alive and (b) a big, diverse nation with a lot of ugly things in our past.

 

Hahaha... Yeah I'm probably going to get banned for being involved in this threadjack.

 

De facto segregation? You mean by wealth?

 

A huge chunk of the problem is the teacher's union. I hate to say this but teacher performance is the number one factor in whether a class is effective at actually teaching children or not. Other countries spend 1/3 of what we do per child and get better results. We have to reward good teachers with higher pay.

 

Ok... I'm going to stop posting to this thread unless they move it to the water-cooler section.

[dispatch3d]

(8) No drugs/ambitious.

 

couldn't edit, forgot it and it's kind of a more important one!

 

enough man hating you feminists . Go make a thread or something ;-). I think the only reason I responded is it actually offended me.....

[zengirl]

Okay, Wales isn't a country. It just is a part of Britain "whatever you believe" (this strikes me of people in the Texas who still have the movement to secede from the U.S.) so, I don't know what to do with all that, BUT!

 

Your country couldn't be responsible for the death of anyone... that would require the ability to win something.

 

Part of being American is not having to cower in fear. Sure there are like 3 countries I shouldn't visit.

 

Oh... and the Vietnamese are amazingly good fighters. I'd take an army of them any day. They knocked out the Japanese and the French before we even got there. I don't mind losing to them, besides we didn't have that good of a reason to be there.

 

Britain won plenty of wars and killed plenty of people. The sun never rose on it. Wales? I've no idea. Apparently, it couldn't manage to keep its independence except in the mind of this fellow.

 

That said, America could do a bit better to be well-liked in the world. I don't know what Vietnam has to do with dating.

 

You mean win a war? So a country is a sh*t country if it doesn't win a war? Well the Americans are getting their backsides handed to them out in the Middle East, isn't over 1000 servicemen killed in Iraq? Isn't it nearly 1000 in Afghanistan?

 

I'd rather no see my fellow country men die for blood and oil for a cause that is not our own. The Welsh have no reason to declare war on anyone, we just want our own sovereignty and to be left alone by the likes of England.

 

I'm against the war in Iraq. And most wars. Exceptions, of course, for things like WWII, mass genocide where our intervention is invited and wanted, etc.

 

But, that. . . sounds like a reason to declare a war. I mean, if England isn't granting it, and you actually wanted your independence, wouldn't you declare it. Apparently, only about 10-15% of you desire independence, though. . . according to the statistics. Though I suppose 100% of you in the made-up-country-of-your-own-mind.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You mean win a war? So a country is a sh*t country if it doesn't win a war? Well the Americans are getting their backsides handed to them out in the Middle East, isn't over 1000 servicemen killed in Iraq? Isn't it nearly 1000 in Afghanistan?

I'd rather no see my fellow country men die for blood and oil for a cause that is not our own. The Welsh have no reason to declare war on anyone, we just want our own sovereignty and to be left alone by the likes of England.

 

I'm sorry Maybe if you do some well organized protests the English will let you have control back. .... Oh and if asked very nicely they will probably apologize for 500 years of complete and total domination too...

 

Sphere... man I know your just pulling my leg and your not really Welsh. Thank you I hadn't laughed that hard in a while.

[Sphere]

Zengirl. An American who thinks she knows Wales better than I do. A lot of people didn't bother with that survey including me and Wales like Scotland is striving for independence. Maybe not in my lifetime or my future children's lifetimes, we'll get independence one day.

 

America should do the world a favour and collapse, I cannot wait until it is no longer the world superpower. It has caused sixty four years of pure hell for the World mainly the Middle East and South East Asia.