About OW/OM urge to tell BS

[jj33]

That is sad Yellow. Some people just dont want to know.

[Spark1111]

Well, as a fBS, I did make three phone calls months later to speak with the OW and she ignored them.

 

I wanted her to know that I was empathetic, had always loved this very confused man, and did not blame her; just wanted to extend an olive branch in the event we ever bumped into each other at a company event.

 

I wanted to be a "real" person to her, not the unloving minimized version of me she needed to believe.

 

But give us BS's some credit.....

 

I saw the cell phone bills and bank statements, so when he tried to minimize her in an effort to reconcile the marriage, I was having NO PART in his continued self-deception and confusion.

 

That is what caused the whole mess to begin with, and I wasn't go there again, ever.

 

Not all BSs need or want to blame the OW OR believe the minimization of her.

 

We are not stupid; Many of us are NOT self-deluding.

[Fieldsofgold]

Oh boy. There's a whole new morality for me here. You don't worry about motive? No wonder we don't get each other!

 

And I'm so not with you on all things for evil purposes bit. Umm. Murder? Worse?

 

That's not where I come from. Motive is all. Well, it's psychology anyay.

 

As a former BS, I think I get where BnB is coming from. I was 19, pregnant, and married to an older man who was an expert "gaslighter." I knew something was terribly wrong, but when I tried to talk to him, it was 'all my fault,' I was 'crazy' and a million other things - all on me. I tried to "self-improve." I tried to correct every little fault and every little flaw he criticized. I even tried to have morning sickness without him knowing because that bothered him. I put myself through every manner of torture and torment, constantly scrutinizing myself and trying to change myself to be acceptable or even just tolerable to him - to no avail. I even went to counselling so I could learn how to be "acceptable." (that's how I eventually caught him - I left the house for my counselling appt., got about two blocks away, and remembered the appt. had been cancelled. I returned home to find them in the act.) No matter how hard I tried to improve myself - his behavior continued. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and have faith in him, because that was the "right" thing to do. I very nearly lost my mind while trying to figure things out. I would have given everything I owned to know the truth. I would not have cared what anyone's motive was - if the OW had gloated and danced and put up billboards with pictures of her blowing raspberries at me while screwing my husband - I would have been glad to finally know the truth.

 

I think maybe that's what BnB is talking about when she says the motive doesn't matter. It surely didn't matter to me.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[Fieldsofgold]

The risk of retaliatory disclosure is assumed by the affair partners. As with everything, it's a balancing act.

 

A spurned AP's duty to disclose may be strong when, for example, the MM is a serial affair artist and/or the MM transmitted a STD to her or her to him.

 

On the other hand, if the spurned/betrayed AP knows that the BS is violent, crazy or dangerous, perhaps more discretion should be shown-- if not for your former AP, for yourself.

 

At the end of the day, it's not so much about Truth as distancing.

 

Again, that's one generally understood risk/cost of the affair game.

 

Cheaters beware.

 

I totally disagree with the underlined part. I think it's ALL about the truth!

 

I had to laugh at the first bolded part. Of course my H gaslighted everyone else to convince them I was "violent, crazy and dangerous." So much so that when I called the OW's husband to tell him I caught them, he didn't believe me, and even teamed up with them against me in the D.

 

The second time I told her H she had cheated, when I ran into them 30 years later --- H most certainly believed me! (yeah, I told for revenge the second time - and because the opportunity presented itself - and because I believe everyone has a right to know the truth about their own life.)

 

But I'm not the OW, so I don't know if any of this is even appropriate for me to post here.

 

- FOG

Edited August 1, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[Silly_Girl]

I've only read the OP so I bet I've missed some good points but I wanted to answer cleanly, and I'll come back to the other stuff

 

For me, there isn't really a good reason to tell, but I can see where the urge might come from.

 

I was wondering if the stage makes a difference:

 

1. Pre-DDay telling by OW/OM (doesn't generally happen - self-preservation etc.)

 

Erm... this is the one that crosses MY mind. I don't wish to preserve the status quo of the affair. I think of this as my Burn Your Bridges option, I never think I may 'win' MM if I do this, but that there is no way I could ever go back. It would make things untenable between us and I would be 'free'. I want him to be happy, he is not; I want him to have (what I call) a proper relationship but he is adamant he will not be able to stay faithful in his sexless marriage; his wife should know her options and be made aware of the new terms of her relationship. Telling his wife is good for all 3 people involved, in my opinion. Morally, I choose to see this as the right thing to do. But haven't acted on that.

 

2. Post-A pre DDay (you lost and you don't see why the AP is scot free in 'happy M')

 

I am assuming this is where the A has ended but the AP did not want it to end? Is this sour grapes only?... comes under the 'I was happy for him to lie when I was getting something for ME, but now.... Oh no'. I suppose perspective after the break-up could leave the OW realising that what happened was as wrong as it was and the wife deserves to know the truth. It could come out of head-clearing I guess.

 

3. Post A post DDAY (WS is minimizing AP to BS and AP finds this hard)

 

Not sure there is much difference between 2 and 3, to me. Again, the MM is off 'enjoying' his happy M, scot-free etc etc. The OW doesn't like it. She's jealous. It's revenge-driven...? Once the wife knows, it's up to her to decide how serious to treat the events that have happened, how long to remain suspicious of her husband, what to believe and what not to. No one can teach her that. Once she knows the bare facts I think it is up to her to do as she feels best, and not for the OW to try and prove anything. And I suspect the wife's actions early on (when the OW may still be aware of what's being said/done) may be knee-jerk and that many relationships change once the shock/hurt/emergency patching has taken place.

 

I found 1 and 2 easy peasy to deal with (no urge whatsoever), but 3 hard. Didn't act on 3 for many months NC, but eventually after love text from xMOM, I guess I did do 3 type telling. Mainly because I was messed up and a wierd opportunity presented itself (I wouldn't have sought it out).

 

My confusion was so great at that point, that I had no interest in telling BS, just in my own sanity.

 

Any thoughts? Does the stage make the telling different from your moral stance?

[bentnotbroken]

As a former BS, I think I get where BnB is coming from. I was 19, pregnant, and married to an older man who was an expert "gaslighter." I knew something was terribly wrong, but when I tried to talk to him, it was 'all my fault,' I was 'crazy' and a million other things - all on me. I tried to "self-improve." I tried to correct every little fault and every little flaw he criticized. I even tried to have morning sickness without him knowing because that bothered him. I put myself through every manner of torture and torment, constantly scrutinizing myself and trying to change myself to be acceptable or even just tolerable to him - to no avail. I even went to counselling so I could learn how to be "acceptable." (that's how I eventually caught him - I left the house for my counselling appt., got about two blocks away, and remembered the appt. had been cancelled. I returned home to find them in the act.) No matter how hard I tried to improve myself - his behavior continued. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and have faith in him, because that was the "right" thing to do. I very nearly lost my mind while trying to figure things out. I would have given everything I owned to know the truth. I would not have cared what anyone's motive was - if the OW had gloated and danced and put up billboards with pictures of her blowing raspberries at me while screwing my husband - I would have been glad to finally know the truth.

 

I think maybe that's what BnB is talking about when she says the motive doesn't matter. It surely didn't matter to me.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could have written this post.

[White Flower]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could have written this post.

Wow Bent and FoG. I could have written it too.

[seren]

Had XOW told me she and my H were having an A while the A was ongoing, I would have been totally floored, BUT I would also have addressed it head on with H, told him what my boundaries were. These namely that I don't do sharing and that if I chose to work on our marriage and if he chose to work on our marriage that the A had to end. However, would also have said that if he wanted OW to go, and he and I could concentrate on unravelling our life together.

 

If the choice was that we chose to try to fix what was broken, we would circle the horses and band together to protect our M and our relationship.

 

I can understand the OP's need to tell, the need to have it all out in the open, I can also understand that for some OP it could be that they just want to make sure the M is over so the A can be open. However, I also find it hard to reconcile this with the comments made by many OP that the marriage has nothing to do with them and that their relationship with the MP is their focus and the only relationship they feel any connection to. If that is the case, then it should be the WS who does the telling. OP should also be wary of taking the initiative as what the WS says, isn't always what the WS means (as an XBS I can vouch for this).

 

To say it is being done for moral purposes or to right the wrong done to the BS by the WS is, IMHO, horse****, if the dynamics of an A caused such angst then the telling should be left to the WS, as in end the M and then come find me.

 

For me, the ending of gaslighting was a huge weight taken of my shoulders as most of us BS tend to shoulder the blame for our partners seeming indifference, or hurtful acts. Once it's all out in the open it is a level playing field. The OW in our marriage kept telling H she would tell me (verified not just H spinning me a line) and this also helped the A to continue longer than it did.

 

So, if you are going to tell, do it at the beginning, the first time the line has been crossed, if not, then it just isn't your place or your business.

[wheelwright]

As a former BS, I think I get where BnB is coming from. I was 19, pregnant, and married to an older man who was an expert "gaslighter." I knew something was terribly wrong, but when I tried to talk to him, it was 'all my fault,' I was 'crazy' and a million other things - all on me. I tried to "self-improve." I tried to correct every little fault and every little flaw he criticized. I even tried to have morning sickness without him knowing because that bothered him. I put myself through every manner of torture and torment, constantly scrutinizing myself and trying to change myself to be acceptable or even just tolerable to him - to no avail. I even went to counselling so I could learn how to be "acceptable." (that's how I eventually caught him - I left the house for my counselling appt., got about two blocks away, and remembered the appt. had been cancelled. I returned home to find them in the act.) No matter how hard I tried to improve myself - his behavior continued. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and have faith in him, because that was the "right" thing to do. I very nearly lost my mind while trying to figure things out. I would have given everything I owned to know the truth. I would not have cared what anyone's motive was - if the OW had gloated and danced and put up billboards with pictures of her blowing raspberries at me while screwing my husband - I would have been glad to finally know the truth.

 

I think maybe that's what BnB is talking about when she says the motive doesn't matter. It surely didn't matter to me.

 

Yep, I get this FoG and Bent. Say no more. It's right you should know.

 

But the reasons an AP may have in telling still reflect on their moral grounding.

 

Interestingly, it seems the sanity of the OW/OM and that of the BS seem to be prime indicators for telling. I can think of no better reason.

[wheelwright]

 

I can understand the OP's need to tell, the need to have it all out in the open, I can also understand that for some OP it could be that they just want to make sure the M is over so the A can be open. However, I also find it hard to reconcile this with the comments made by many OP that the marriage has nothing to do with them and that their relationship with the MP is their focus and the only relationship they feel any connection to. If that is the case, then it should be the WS who does the telling. OP should also be wary of taking the initiative as what the WS says, isn't always what the WS means (as an XBS I can vouch for this).

 

To say it is being done for moral purposes or to right the wrong done to the BS by the WS is, IMHO, horse****, if the dynamics of an A caused such angst then the telling should be left to the WS, as in end the M and then come find me.

 

So, if you are going to tell, do it at the beginning, the first time the line has been crossed, if not, then it just isn't your place or your business.[/QUOTE]

 

Agree with bolded bits. WS should tell, to protect the sanity of all involved.

 

However, people have to take steps in relation to their own sanity if this is not being observed by others. So I can see that at any one of the stages I outlined in OP, this may be the case for OW/OM. Just depends on the individual situation.

 

And I agree with poster above who said that in entering into an A, there is an acknowledged risk of 'telling'.

 

If the telling is done out of some kind of meanness, I don't think there is any justification, although there may be some benefit to BS.

[Mombot]

Some BS apparently do not want to know about an A.

[BB07]

Some BS apparently do not want to know about an A.

 

So Mombot......does that mean your man is married and not separated or ?

[Mombot]

He is legally separated, but that is still married, especially odd, separated 11 years.

[whichwayisup]

He is legally separated, but that is still married, especially odd, separated 11 years.

 

Legally they are separated on paper, but obviously emotionally they are not and they are friends, involved with one another as a family. Sorry.

[skylarblue]

I don’t think I could ever tell my MM’s W unless he deliberately tried to cause some kind of destruction to my life. Although I sometimes believe I could in scenario #2 and #3 and at times I want to I just don’t think I would. It wouldn’t be right. I knew that he was married and regardless of what he tells me there are certain things that I should be prepared for the possibility to happen. I also expect the same courtesy from MM. I don’t expect and would hope he wouldn’t expose the A to people important in my life either if the A didn’t end how/when he wanted.

 

Sometimes I do get very irked by the feeling that MM is getting off scot-free and I’ll do or have MM do things to raise his W’s suspicions and get him peppered with questions and doubt. Kinda a way for me to tell without having to tell. It’s kinda manipulative and passive/aggressive but I don’t think it is wrong. It’s just my way of striking out at him really.

[Dexter Morgan]

He is legally separated, but that is still married, especially odd, separated 11 years.

 

its more than especially odd...........MM has you eating out of his hand.

[flying]

Wow Bent and FoG. I could have written it too.

 

Me four. As a former BS (now divorced) I totally get where BnB was coming from - for me, just to know and not be gaslighted anymore, not feel crazy anymore, trumps anything about anyone's motive for telling me.

 

I don't honestly know what I would have thought of the AP if she had told me (she didn't, I found out through other means) but to be honest, what difference would that make, to me? It doesn't lessen the pain in any way, and it doesn't add to it either. It just is.

 

Of course, I can see how motive matters a great deal to OW/OM, because they are, on some level, interested in how they will be remembered and thought of, and also I'm sure interested in how they will think of themselves in future. I get it, and I can understand wanting to understand why you would do something, wanting to understand yourself better. I really do.

 

But honestly, from a BS' perspective, none of that would be important to me and wouldn't change a thing. At that time, I wasn't interested in anyone else's sanity but my own. I just wanted to be free of the gaslighting and confusion. I probably would have disliked the AP regardless, because yeah, she was a willing partner in the deception that caused me so much pain. I just don't know.

 

It's a shame that sometimes BS don't respond well, or remain in denial. But as BnB also said, you also don't know whether or not you're planting an important seed. Mombot may have done just that, although there's no way to tell. But if an AP most cares about making the gesture as a way to try to repair damage, or to help - then...well, does it matter what the result is or what s/he thinks of you afterward?

 

The only question that has ever given me pause on this - I generally advocate telling - is whether there is a situation in which telling might do serious harm - for example, if one of the people involved is unhinged and could do violence. In that case, I guess you have to use your judgment. But that's not a question of motive.

[pureinheart]

I don’t think I could ever tell my MM’s W unless he deliberately tried to cause some kind of destruction to my life. Although I sometimes believe I could in scenario #2 and #3 and at times I want to I just don’t think I would. It wouldn’t be right. I knew that he was married and regardless of what he tells me there are certain things that I should be prepared for the possibility to happen. I also expect the same courtesy from MM. I don’t expect and would hope he wouldn’t expose the A to people important in my life either if the A didn’t end how/when he wanted.

 

Sometimes I do get very irked by the feeling that MM is getting off scot-free and I’ll do or have MM do things to raise his W’s suspicions and get him peppered with questions and doubt. Kinda a way for me to tell without having to tell. It’s kinda manipulative and passive/aggressive but I don’t think it is wrong. It’s just my way of striking out at him really.

 

Hi Sky,

 

If it's any consolation...they don't ever get off free of any reprisal...ever, it will come back on them.

 

BTW, I understand how you feel:)