discussions of life ideals--it would seem a problem

[disfasia]

I have been seeing a lovely woman for the past few weeks, much more if you count our virtual meetings. She is so wonderful, and everything seems great... until we discussed ideal living spaces. When I said that eating meals together, taking care of the home responsibly (ie. together or turns), she flipped out a bit on me. She objected to the fact that she would want to eat breakfast at her own whim--what and when, etc. I said, that I understand doing what one wants when single, but that in a relationship--and i have had many--eating together is the one time for sharing, it negotiates the tasks of the kitchen more easily (ie. one dish not two to make, one set of dishes to clean, etc). She objected so strongly and called me "weird", swearing up and down that everyone she knows eats breakfast on their own, each one making their own.

 

Honestly, I do not wish to live a life of each person for herself--I also never would want to teach my child to be so picky about food. After all, when we decide on meals or restos with friends, it is simply a case of coming to an agreement. It is not hard--one wants sushi, another Mexican, etc--and soon the choice is made. Why is having lunch and dinner together so normal for her, but breakfast not at all. I do not know if I ought to give up dating this person seeing her rigidity towards sharing meals. I have never heard of such a thing in my life nor have my friends. The bottom line, she is used to doing what she wants and when she wants and it might be that this is the compass for her ability to compromise on many other issues. I do not know. I do know however, that I do not wish to get involved with someone who thinks she is losing her freedom by sharing breakfast.

 

What are your thoughts? Thanks.

[michelangelo]

You seem to be the rigid one. Being a stickler for eating breakfast and sharing that meal when people, especially working folks, have very different schedules.

 

If you remain adamant about it, you lose out on this girl.

 

Be flexible.

[Iconoclast]

I'd let it go. But then again, I don't eat breakfast. Well I do, but it's later in the day at work. I'm just not hungry when I get up. Cup of coffee or tea is what I need.

Maybe she's like me.

 

Loosen up, this is a try out for marriage. Go with the flow, and see how it naturally negotiates itself. Don't make a schedule before you even live together.

 

Her reaction is a bit weird though. But, if eating three meals a day together is the most important thing in your relationship, maybe you should look elsewhere.

[vodkafan]

Some people are just NOT morning people. They like to get up and ready for the day in their own way. It really should not be a big deal for you. I agree with the last poster you should be more flexible.

[linwood]

Life and relationships are full of "real" problems.

 

Why do you have to fabricate more and for what purpose?

 

Your whole post is a moot point.

[disfasia]

Obviously when I say that eating together is important, I do not remain fixed in this when life dictates. If she had a different morning schedule (ie. got up earlier or later, etc), I wouldn't mind of course. But she is just very individual and picky about food. For instance, one morning I brought her tea, hot tea. She said it wasn't hot enough. This kind of behaviour though might not seem like a "real problem", can indicate problems. Those of you who know you have lived this can identify--there are warning signs of intractability and selfishness that might be indicated by someone who incapable of compromise.

 

For breakfast, by the way, I told her that I had no problem if she chooses the food. I simply like my life simple--meals shared together is just more easy and fun than subdividing meals and having much more to shop and clean up. So I let her decide and I go along with what she wants. I don't find that inflexible really.

[lolalove]

I can see wanting to sit down to dinner together, but for breakfast and lunch, it is a little strange to have to eat together. This is one of those things that shouldn't be a big deal. It sounds like you may have problems with your SO being "selfish"... which is the real issue here.

[GordonDarkfoot]

What are your thoughts? Thanks.

 

 

Honestly? What an inappropriate line of discussion to bring up when you've only been dating a few weeks--your relationship is not even anywhere near the "serious" stage yet, and you're already planning your life together with this woman?

 

That would strike me as weird and controlling if I was the girl.

 

Dude, do you even know what she likes to eat for breakfast?

 

Are you going to tell her she can't eat Count Chocula anymore because you don't approve of sugary cereals?

[GordonDarkfoot]

But she is just very individual and picky about food.

WTF? I knew it. You stay in your cereal bowl, and leave hers alone, k?

 

 

For instance, one morning I brought her tea, hot tea. She said it wasn't hot enough.

Dude, the "normal" response to this kind of thing would be for you to have said: "OK honey, sorry, I just didn't want it to be too hot and burn you. I'll nuke it in the microwave for another minute."

 

 

This kind of behaviour though might not seem like a "real problem", can indicate problems.

Dude, dude...her tea wasn't hot enough. How could that possibly be an "issue" for you other than an indication that when preparing tea for her, you need to make it a little hotter?

 

 

Those of you who know you have lived this can identify--there are warning signs of intractability and selfishness that might be indicated by someone who incapable of compromise.

Maybe you really have "dysphasia"--"an impairment in the ability to communicate properly, often caused by brain injury."

 

Edit: The above comment is a serious one, OP's screen name is "disfasia."

[disfasia]

Gordon, your comments here are odd in that it shows that you have not read what I wrote--and that you are projecting your own issues. Who said I brought up breakfast with her? I have been dating someone who seems quite upset that I eat breakfast with others together, nothing more, and who said she doesn't eat breakfast with people. I find that intractable and it doesn't leave room for spontaneity and fun. On the weekends, I like to have breakfast and meals with my lovers and this is a practice I see in all the world's cultures. People communicate and enjoy each other's company...

 

In Western culture, we are out all day and night and the few meals we share together are important. I am happy that you disagree with me, but you do not need to insult.

[GordonDarkfoot]

Gordon, your comments here are odd in that it shows that you have not read what I wrote--and that you are projecting your own issues.

 

dis, I did read what you wrote. I have no "issues" concerning eating of breakfast with loved ones.

 

Yes, of course it's nice when we all can eat breakfast together; but frequently people can't, due to scheduling issues, or simply don't want to. Either way it's not an issue unless someone chooses to make it an issue, as you have.

 

You seem to feel that a loved one is not entitled to choose to eat breakfast in a solitary fashion. If you're saying you find it odd that she NEVER wants to eat breakfast with you EVER, then I too might be somewhat concerned. But the solution to your concern is not to unilaterally try to impose your idea of how breakfast should happen on your loved one. She is not your child, after all. The bottom line is that if preferring to eat breakfast alone is her worst idiosyncracy, then you're a pretty lucky fella. However while you've had an online relationship for some time, you've only actually been dating her for several weeks.

 

 

Who said I brought up breakfast with her?

 

This is a little bit disingenuous--you thought enough of the issue to raise it here. That means either you brought it to her attention, or she brought it to yours. If she told you she prefers eating breakfast by herself, then all you needed to do is say "OK," or perhaps ask why, express your own opinion, and leave it at that.

 

 

I have been dating someone who seems quite upset that I eat breakfast with others together, nothing more, and who said she doesn't eat breakfast with people.

 

Now I'm a little bit confused. I thought the issue was your gf did not want to have breakfast with YOU, after a "sleep over." Are you now saying that is not the case, you had an abstract discussion with her about having breakfast with others "in general"? Or, are you saying that after a "sleep over" with her, you went out to have your breakfast with other people (not her), which might be upsetting to her? Perhaps you haven't really given all the necessary facts and details to really understand what you are talking about with respect to this relationship. But, what's the issue either way? She said she doesn't eat breakfast with people. O.K. I still don't see how this is anything more than an idiosyncracy, unless you suspect she's concealing some sort of serious eating disorder and eats alone so as not to disclose it. But since I don't think you mentioned that she has an eating disorder, I can't think of any other reason this would be of concern to you.

 

 

I find that intractable and it doesn't leave room for spontaneity and fun.

 

Look. You've only been dating for a few weeks. Maybe she's simply not comfortable with you enough yet to want to eat breakfast with you. I'm not buying the "spontaneity and fun" statement by you; are you telling me you can't have that in a relationship unless you eat breakfast with the other person?

 

 

 

On the weekends, I like to have breakfast and meals with my lovers and this is a practice I see in all the world's cultures. People communicate and enjoy each other's company...

 

You're generalizing again. You're not clarifying the specific situation that was actually happening with you and your gf in which this dispute first came up.

 

 

 

 

In Western culture, we are out all day and night and the few meals we share together are important. I am happy that you disagree with me, but you do not need to insult.

 

OK. Your reference to "Western culture" perhaps implies she is not from a "Western culture" and therefore maybe she has a different view?

 

I'm really sorry if you think I insulted you. However, I really think you're having trouble communicating with your gf, and you did pick a screen name which is a homophone for a brain disorder that impairs the ability to communicate effectively.

 

If you don't actually have dysphasia, OK, fine, why did you pick your screen name then? Just curious.

[Eve]

Generally I would say that it matters only what is done at those points of disagreements more than anything else.

 

H'mm... my Hubby can be rigid on certain things and I on others. Sometimes I ignore him, sometimes I listen. Same with him.

 

He has won me around on some things just by being cute but he knows that some aspects of my character (my spontaneity and dizziness) can't be changed and over time he has learned to love me for who I am... and I him.

 

.. but overall we have the same traditional values so don't really clash at all.

 

You either flow or you don't, I say.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[disfasia]

GordonDarkfoot, I did not mention all the incidents because there were many, and mostly hypothetical. For instance, after she warned me that she is picky about breakfast, I ddi not wake up each time I would stay over and make her breakfast. I know what she likes of course, but she is not the type of person who is grateful if she wakes up to an omlette or crepes. I let her choose and make for us or she would ask me to make something. No problem. The problem emerges in that I notice a pattern of her being particular about a lot of things in the kitchen....and while 90% of the time it is fine, I am flexible, I have had to walk on eggshells with her and that worries me. Of course, I said, "Let's have separate breakfasts then"...but that is not ok when she wants me to cook... I don't know if I explain this well, but basically she calls the shots on all of the food issues, and is very defensive about her past habits. I, on the other hand, am the more flexible one about food and she worries that I will resent her for this....

 

 

Eve, Yes, you are right. I am giving it more time because I presume this woman is hyper protective of her habits and utters statements that include "never will" etc. out of a need to define herself. I remind her that we are only dating a short while and that everything will be different in reality. At least with my friends--I just spend a few days with a good friend--we decide what to each for each meal we share. I have never experienced this type of worry before and I expect that is her weak spot. I am learning about her needs as I hope she discovers that eating together is not prison.

[GordonDarkfoot]

GordonDarkfoot, I did not mention all the incidents because there were many, and mostly hypothetical. For instance, after she warned me that she is picky about breakfast, I ddi not wake up each time I would stay over and make her breakfast. I know what she likes of course, but she is not the type of person who is grateful if she wakes up to an omlette or crepes. I let her choose and make for us or she would ask me to make something. No problem.

 

Well, now it seems as if you're saying that the two of you do have breakfast together, she just likes to wake up first and decide what she would like to eat, she doesn't want you to make her breakfast w/o input from her. I agree this is "no problem."

 

 

The problem emerges in that I notice a pattern of her being particular about a lot of things in the kitchen....and while 90% of the time it is fine, I am flexible, I have had to walk on eggshells with her and that worries me.

 

While you've implied you've been in a number of close relationships with women in the past, it doesn't sound like you really understand the relationship some women have with their kitchens. As in, they don't want someone else "messing around" in there.

 

I can understand that--it's similar to a man with his workshop in the garage, with every tool in a particular place. Lots of guys don't want someone messing around in their workshop.

 

What you're describing is not at all unusual, so I'm still not understanding what the problem here is, at least not from your perspective.

 

 

Of course, I said, "Let's have separate breakfasts then"...

 

Whoa, wait a second...so now I am hearing that she never was the one who told you she didn't want to have breakfast with you--you told her that, because you were miffed at her pickiness regarding her kitchen. IOW rather than just accepting that she was somewhat picky about her kitchen, it sounds like you escalated the conflict.

 

 

 

but that is not ok when she wants me to cook...

 

I am a mass of confusion right now. Sorry, I know you've put a lot of effort into explaining the situation, but I'm still not seeing any problems here from your perspective.

 

 

I don't know if I explain this well, but basically she calls the shots on all of the food issues, and is very defensive about her past habits. I, on the other hand, am the more flexible one about food and she worries that I will resent her for this....

 

Are you trying to say that when you are over at her place she likes to be the one who decides what the menu is and who will be cooking, and a lot of times she kicks you out of the kitchen and does it herself, and doesn't want your help?

 

This doesn't sound like unusual behavior for a woman in her own kitchen. As a matter of fact, why not just let her do the menu planning and cook for you as much as she wants? I'm not getting why any of this is bugging you so much. Maybe you need to change your expectations to where you acknowledge she is the "boss" when it comes to the kitchen, whether at her place or even at your place, let her plan the menus, do the cooking, unless she indicates she wants you to do it?

 

A lot of guys (specifically, ME!!!) really appreciate a woman who puts herself out to do the menu planning and cooking. The only exception to this I could see if she's a really awful cook, or is only feeding you junky food, or has a disgustingly messy kitchen. Then you'd have a legitimate gripe; but you haven't stated that she's a bad cook, or gives you unwholesome food, or is messy.

 

Is it possible that things might improve if you just relax about this particular issue and focus on other areas of the relationship for a while? Let her do her thing in the kitchen, help out when she asks. Stay out of her way. Don't complain so much. Are you saying in a roundabout fashion, that you just don't like what she cooks for you? Again I'm just not getting your viewpoint for some reason.

 

 

 

Eve, Yes, you are right. I am giving it more time because I presume this woman is hyper protective of her habits and utters statements that include "never will" etc. out of a need to define herself.

 

You didn't direct this to me, but "never will" what? You just said that the two of you DO eat meals together.

 

 

I remind her that we are only dating a short while and that everything will be different in reality.

 

This makes NO sense, dating is your "reality" with her. It sounds like what you're doing is somehow, in your mind anyway, planning your "future" with her in which you make all the decisions? Yeah that kind of attitude on your part would be kinda scary for the other party.

 

 

At least with my friends--I just spend a few days with a good friend--we decide what to each for each meal we share.

 

Okay. English is not your first language, correct? (Use of "spend" rather than "spent", indicates a verb tense/grammar error, not a spelling error. This particular grammatical error of a very common verb, "to spend", would be unlikely to have been made by a native speaker of English.) You mentioned "Western culture." Let me ask what country you are from? And where is she from? Is there any slight possibility that this is a mail order bride situation and she is from Thailand or something like that? Or maybe I have it reversed: You're from an asian country and she's western? Just a guess but it's pretty obvious this is more than just a misunderstanding.

 

It sounds like you are saying that your custom when eating with someone else is that you ALL reach a consensus on what food will be eaten at the particular meal, by everyone/each other. Well that's just dandy if you're into that, but you can't FORCE someone to let you share the decision-making about what THEY eat.

 

This MUST be a cross-cultural problem, because you seem to accept as a "given" the notion that "consensus" must be achieved as to meal time practices. You also seem to accept as a "given" that you will be changing up her "reality" as you call it once you get past this annoying dating phase.

 

 

I have never experienced this type of worry before and I expect that is her weak spot. I am learning about her needs as I hope she discovers that eating together is not prison.

 

I guess that all depends on the cellmate one happens to be eating with.

[florence of suburbia]

If she doesn't like your cooking to the extent that it's causing both of you undue stress, stop making her breakfast and do your own thing. It's as simple as that.

 

It makes no difference that before meeting her you fantasized about the perfect breakfasts you would share together -- You're not dealing with a hypothetical partner in a utopian relationship, you're dealing with YOUR partner in a real relationship.

[disfasia]

florence of suburbia

 

No, she likes my cooking, when she snaps her fingers and wants it. She doesn't want it when she is moody. This is the center of the problem--to be with someone who is moody around food and day X they want you to be far from cooking and the next day you are asked to cook what they want. I want to be involved with an adult, not a child and the more I think about it, this is the kind of behaviour that children exhibit. Adults tend to be much more even handed in their desires adn expectations of their lovers.

 

 

GordonDarkfoot

 

I don't know if you are bored and playing games or if you consciously misread my postings. There is no confusion or contradiction therein. And no, there is no cultural problem per se... meals tend to be a consensus or people simply don't live together as a couple. if every meal has to be a battle of the picky and the other who has to concede, well, it is just not an interesting proposition. Relationships are give and take and if one is constantly using her mood to control the meal and the other has to fold constantly, there is clearly no reason to consider living together, nor even eating together. You speak as if you were a hermit and never went out --- people go out all the time for meals, friends, lovers, and the idea of finding a restaurant in common is a no brainer. And friends and couples eating at home, the same consensus is made. I have never been invited to anyone's house and had a meal made separately for me, nor have I ever heard of this. So your insistance that consensus does not form part of the meal experience worldwide is disingenuous to say the least. Just as disingenuous as to assume that a typo means I am not a native English speaker. Nor your blatant sexism.

 

I have not responded to a lot of your comments because some are patently offensive (ie. telling me what handle to use and your very uninformed reading of what dysphasia is). Now I am not a native English speaker...and that I have to understand women in the kitchen and their mentalities.

 

This last comment merits a response. Why on earth do you assume I am not a woman? Or worse, that all women have the same relationship to kitchens and men, by default, another?

 

The situation is quite simple: she wants to snap her fingers and have food with me when she chooses it. Were I not to accede to her wishes she would be offended (I tested this yesterday in fact). And when she wants to eat on her own and not involve me, then she is free to ban me from the kitchen and eat and not ask if I would like to join her. We are dating now, but dating is a test of the future and after speaking to many friends and unknowns, I have yet to find someone who does not find this behaviour anti-social and even controlling. Again, if she were constant in her wishes, I would be less concerned. What worries me is that she is free to make us tea or breakfast, but were I to do the same, she often gets upset. If someone makes me food and it is not 100% perfect or not the meal I had in my head, I don't bitch about it. I have actually never lived with someone like this. So obviously this kind of behaviour is alarming and it would seem that this is an indication of her "my way or the highway" attitude. While you might think each one eating on her own is great, you clearly do not do the shopping or clean up in households where each member is living in this way. It is not easy to keep up with just one household of people sharing meals, much less one household of many people having different meals.

 

Your analogy to a workshop and a garage does not work. This is not a shared workshop, this is a shared kitchen and living experience.

 

I have lived with many people from roommates to lovers and we are just happy when we arrive at home and a meal is made. You live with people and you learn what they like and dislike, allergies, etc. Livign with or visiting people is easy when you are with easy people. I wrote the problem on here to get outside ideas. Dating someone should not result in my not wanting to eat with my lover because she is incredibly picky about food, or even controlling. It is that simple.

 

I have tried to talk with her, but she is very difficult to talk with about this issue. She attaches notions of freedom to eating, but has no problem asking me to do everything as she does.

[xxoo]

The situation is quite simple: she wants to snap her fingers and have food with me when she chooses it. Were I not to accede to her wishes she would be offended (I tested this yesterday in fact). And when she wants to eat on her own and not involve me, then she is free to ban me from the kitchen and eat and not ask if I would like to join her.

 

It sounds like you both are controlling and inflexible.

 

Here's the reality: two adults live together with different personalities, moods, and whims. Some of the time, each person will feel antisocial and need some "alone time". That should be respected. Ideally, both partners will CHOOSE to spend time together, happily, a good portion of the time. That can be eating together, walking together, playing together. That can be one meal a day or three meals a day. Ideally, the balance will be livable for both partners.

 

There is no formula of "right" or "wrong". There is no reason that breakfast together (specifically) is always better than breakfast separately.

 

While you might think each one eating on her own is great, you clearly do not do the shopping or clean up in households where each member is living in this way. It is not easy to keep up with just one household of people sharing meals, much less one household of many people having different meals.

 

Each adult cleans up after his/herself, immediately. Rinse dishes and put in dishwasher. Scrub out pans so ready for next person to use. Easy. Our family eats dinner together, at the table, every day--but the rest of the meals are less structured. As long as each person cleans up after each meal prepared, there is no problem.

[BellaBellaBella]

I think you have put to much emphasis on food. Maybe it is a metafor for your relationship.

 

I very rarely eat a meal with my DH and children. I cook 95 percent of the time for them. Breakfast and lunch are all eaten at different times, with the occasional weekend meal. This in part due to me eating 6 to 8 tiny meals a day. My family eating differently. We do a traditional sit down dinner. I just don't eat at that time. Does it make us closer or not.

My food intake has no impact on my relationship.

 

Are you two older? Seems like that is the case, where your having trouble wanting to adjust to each other. Also being rigid on both sides.

[flying]

I agree that the breakfast thing seems to have become a line in the sand for both of you.

 

disfasia, do you feel in general that she's inflexible and uncompromising, or is it only in the food arena? And...I know you've said you're the flexible one, but it does sound you have a somewhat fixed idea of the "ideal" of how people in a relationship eat meals together, and aren't really willing to let go of that or compromise much on it, which I'm sure she senses as well. So...does she see you as generally inflexible in other areas?

 

It seems like this has become the focal point of a struggle for control in your relationship. Both of you are struggling over it though - no one person is responsible for it. I guess my question is, what is this really about? Maybe you should sit down and talk that out with her?

 

One other word of caution...in your last post you seemed more pessimistic about her than previously, and I suspect it's spillover from frustration with other posters. I know it's hard not to let it get to you, but please remember to take everything you read here with a grain of salt! We all have our agendas/preconceptions, and although many people are sincerely trying to help, only you really know when someone's advice feels helpful.

Edited August 2, 2010 by flying

[disfasia]

Well, she does not clean up after herself. Essentially she is used to doing a, b, y and z her whole life and she is not prepared to change that in a relationship where, for instance, I have had agreements with roommates and lovers that we all clean up after using the kitchen.

 

Flying, yes, I am beginning to see that the food is the extreme limit of her inflexibility, but she is inflexible in other areas as well and I actually am beginning to think that she believes herself flexible, though she is not in the least.

 

For meals, well, I am not my partner's maid, chef, etc. If someone wants to eat alone at meals, that is fine by me, but honestly, I would not want to live with someone whose idea of community is at her convenience--when she wants to be cooked for she snaps and I am to comply? I think not. Likewise, when I stay over, I end up having to clean up for she is quite comfortable in not cleaning up.

 

As for people eating apart constantly, this is fine for some, not for all. I do know living in many other countries outside North America, that people do eat together and there is no drama. There are also no spoiled children who complain about every little bit of food...and so forth. You might be comfortable with your individual situations, but I know for me personally, I would rather not live with someone who is so specific about food that she renders sharing a chore. I have lived with people my entire life and never once had a problem with meals...so yes, her quizzing me about what I would do or making me feel nervous so as not to cook breakfast or pour a second bowl of cereal is absurd to me. I do not think we are all alike, but I do think that adults need to cease being children and learn to accept, at times, that someone else cooked for you. I think the level of pickiness at meals is an incredibly North American problem and though many describe the perfect situations in words, I have seen these split homes in reality where nobody cooks whole foods, people eat prefabricated food, and where obesity and ill-health are often the relationship between our alleged freedom to eat what and when we wish irrespective of our cohabitants and the ability of people to share responsibility in the kitchen and cook healthier meals together. I think we mistake freedom for individuality and this, for me, is a huge problem.

[alreadythere]

disfasia, i hear you and i am bit put off by many of the comments here. people claim to be so busy and working, yet they are not too busy that each one in a large household cook? or the one person here who cooks 95% of the time and everyone just waltzes into the kitchen to have meals? certainly, at times we cannot all eat together, but the center of households when i was growing up was to respect the tradition of eating meals together. and it didn't kill me or my brothers and it allowed my parents to have a constant time for family. this is a tradition being lost not so much because people don't have time, but instead people do not make the time.

 

relationships are work, that is true. but this woman seems to want to have a lifestyle that includes you when she feels like it. you are there for her to make her meals when she requests and then scolds you for thinking of her and then gets upset when you do as she does and make breakfast for yourself. she sounds spoiled and is one of the many people out there in relationships who push the envelope. she wants her cake and to eat it and relationships do not work like that. if she wants to have breakfasts alone, then let her. but don't allow her to manipulate you for when she wants you to cook for her. sharing meals is give and take--this means that the people who don't life a finger should learn to be thankful that others take time and love in preparing food. in this age of hyper individualism, it is clear that people only think about themselves. so let her have it but remain firm in not sharing meals so that, when you do make deserts that it sounds like she will sorely miss, she will realize that compromise has more upsides than down.

 

lastly, it sounds here that she is spoiled and self-centered. be careful with people like this. i gather you sense this about her and are writing of the food as one of the many manifestations of this sort of behavior. if she is really so demanding about meals, then it is ok if you are cooking something she likes, this smells to me of someone who does not compromise at all. step back and see who she is. also, it doesn't sound like she has had a healthy relationship in her life if you two are just dating and she is already forewarning you about living with her and testing what you would do, what you would cook and labelling the pleasurable act of eating with one's partner as odd. be careful of this one. picky eaters, in my experience, are extremely difficult people.

[GordonDarkfoot]

GordonDarkfoot

 

I don't know if you are bored and playing games or if you consciously misread my postings.

 

Not bored; not "playing games"; and if you think I've misread anything, obviously you should clarify that misreading, if you like.

 

 

 

There is no confusion or contradiction therein.

 

About what? Obviously there is a lack of communication between you and your SO, on a very basic level. I'm really having trouble understanding what precisely that issue is, and I've asked a number of questions and made a number of assumptions based on what you've posted in the hopes of clarifying things.

 

 

And no, there is no cultural problem per se... meals tend to be a consensus or people simply don't live together as a couple.

 

I think this sort of "indirect" manner of response may be part of the more general problem. I made a very clear comment about a possible "culture clash" when it comes to meal times. The reality is that people from different cultures can have different concepts of what mealtime is supposed to be.

 

Instead of just directly stating what country/culture you originate from, and what country/culture your SO originates from, so as to clarify whether a culture clash might be part of the difficulty, you state "there is no cultural problem per se..." leaving the issue ambiguous. The way you answered the inquiry was to imply that there MAY BE some cultural issue involved, just not something "obvious" or as you say, "per se." Yet, you failed to provide the factual information as to whether the two of you are, or are not, from different countries/cultures.

 

An obvious if somewhat trivial example would be when a westerner comes into a Japanese person's home. Footwear is supposed to be left at the door and for the westerner to insist on not taking off the footwear can be pereceived as an "insult" or at least a serious "social gaffe" by the host. I'm sure there are many similar examples.

 

 

if every meal has to be a battle of the picky and the other who has to concede, well, it is just not an interesting proposition.

 

 

It's very difficult to get a handle on what you are talking about since you haven't given any specific examples. You're simply characterizing your SO as unreasonably "picky" but you're not giving any specific examples of what you are talking about.

 

 

Relationships are give and take and if one is constantly using her mood to control the meal and the other has to fold constantly, there is clearly no reason to consider living together, nor even eating together.

 

I agree entirely with this comment simply because it applies to pretty much every relationship. You still haven't given a concrete, specific example of what your SO actually did--a factual example--which would help explain things better.

 

 

 

 

You speak as if you were a hermit and never went out --- people go out all the time for meals, friends, lovers, and the idea of finding a restaurant in common is a no brainer.

 

 

Well I'm not the biggest party animal in the world, but I'm not a hermit either, LOL.

 

However, using your example of going out to a restaurant--every restaurant I've ever gone out to has a menu with a variety of choices, and each individual diner gets to choose their very own meal from the menu. You can have veal scallopini, I can have seafood al diablo. You can have chablis, I can have merlot. You can have coke, I can have pepsi. You can have cheescake, I can have key lime pie. So I'm not sure how the restaurant metaphor really provides an explanation of what you are getting at.

 

Actually, the only exception I can think of is at certain American restaurants (and I suppose these exist in other countries too) where the meals are served "family style," where large serving platters and bowls are served and everyone shares the same food selections. But this is the exception, not the rule, IME.

 

 

And friends and couples eating at home, the same consensus is made.

 

 

It often is that way, but there is no hard and fast "normative relationship rule" that I am aware of requiring "consensus" to be reached at mealtimes. Not in American culture, at any rate. And "consensus" implies an actual agreement among the diners.

 

 

I have never been invited to anyone's house and had a meal made separately for me, nor have I ever heard of this.

 

 

Well being a guest at someone's home, say for a dinner party, is not quite the same thing as being in a romantic relationship with someone. Usually the default is that dinner guests are polite and eat what they are served, and at least pretend to enjoy it. However, among people who are actually friends, generally there is an exchange of information about likes vs. dislikes, and the hosts actually try to accommodate the guests so they will have an enjoyable time. In American culture, there are certain rather "standard" or "safe" meal selections for various events. But that does not mean a good host will not accommodate a guest with special needs. For example, if a host is not a vegetarian, and the meal is not going to be vegetarian, EVERYONE that I know will nevertheless make every effort to accomodate a guest who is a vegetarian or vegan. That does not necessarily mean a COMPLETELY "different" meal. Another issue which comes up, is lactose intolerance or gluten/wheat intolerance; and various allergy issues. Some people cannot tolerate things like MSG in their food. I actually do not know anyone who will not happily accommodate someone who needs a special dietary arrangement if it is at all possible to do so. Recognizing a guest's preferences and needs to the extent possible, is all part of being a "good host."

 

 

 

So your insistance that consensus does not form part of the meal experience worldwide is disingenuous to say the least.

 

I can't speak for what happens "worldwide"; only from my experience. I guess you're saying you believe the entire world shares your views on "consensus" at meal times? I haven't had the same experiences as you so I have to disagree with you on that.

 

 

Just as disingenuous as to assume that a typo means I am not a native English speaker. Nor your blatant sexism.

 

Once again you are being very indirect. You criticized me for making an assumption that English is not your native language, implying that it is; but without actually saying whether you're a native English speaker or not. So you have chosen to leave that an open question, to what purpose, I have no clue.

 

I'm also not sure where you're getting the "blatant sexism" accusation from? I simply conveyed what my experience has been. Many women are very particular about meal times and what happens in their kitchens, more so than a majority of, but not all, men. At least IME. It seems you've been having a similar experience with your SO so I'm not sure what the point of calling the observation "sexist" is?

 

 

I have not responded to a lot of your comments because some are patently offensive (ie. telling me what handle to use and your very uninformed reading of what dysphasia is).

 

I'm sorry you feel offended, but I didn't tell you what handle to use. I simply pointed out that you are using a handle which implies that you do have dysphasia and if you do not, using your handle could mislead, in the same way that using a handle like "sexy blonde" might be misleading if you were a frumpy redhead.

 

As far as the definition of dysphasia, I got that from wikipedia. And once again, in your very indirect manner, you don't deny suffering from the condition, nor do you acknowledge it; meanwhile you don't explain why you chose it? How am I "uninformed" about dysphasia?

 

 

Now I am not a native English speaker...and that I have to understand women in the kitchen and their mentalities.

 

Once again, assuming your statement that you are "not a native English speaker" is simply meant as sarcasm, you don't straightforwardly clarify whether you are, or are not. IME native English speakers know the difference between the use of the verb tenses, "spend" and "spent."

 

I also didn't tell you what you do and don't need to understand, I simply provided my experience and I don't believe mine to be all that unusual.

 

 

 

This last comment merits a response. Why on earth do you assume I am not a woman?

 

Where did I make any assumption about your gender? I didn't, did I. But I guess this means you're a woman and in a lesbian relationship? Or does it, since while again criticizing me, you actually have failed to clarify the factual issue that you are criticizing me for failing to understand.

 

 

 

Or worse, that all women have the same relationship to kitchens and men, by default, another?

 

I guess then we're at least in agreement that different people--whether they be men, whether be women, gay, or straight--can each have differing views about kitchens, meal times, and domestic life in general, and that's O.K.? I accept that different people can have different attitudes and opinions about stuff like what's supposed to happen or not happen at mealtimes. If you agree with that, then again, I'm having trouble seeing what precisely your specific issue is with your SO regarding how mealtimes are being handled between the two of you.

 

 

 

The situation is quite simple: she wants to snap her fingers and have food with me when she chooses it.

 

A specific example would help. Are you saying she literally snaps her fingers at you and demands service, as if you were her butler or maid? (Depending on your gender, whatever it might be.)

 

Why not just tell her, "I'm sorry, I don't care to right now." Or: "I'm kind of busy/I'm posting on the internet/I'm feeling kind of lazy right now, so why don't you take care of that yourself please?"

 

 

 

Were I not to accede to her wishes she would be offended (I tested this yesterday in fact).

 

OK so now you're saying the problem is your SO thinks she can snap her fingers and tell you what, where, when, and how to eat your meals, without any input from you? That's obviously unacceptable, but it seemed like you were saying something different was happening in your earlier posts, so maybe I did misunderstand you.

 

Let me make it clear that I don't think either party in a healthy relationship should be making "demands" or "snapping fingers" at the other.

 

 

 

And when she wants to eat on her own and not involve me, then she is free to ban me from the kitchen and eat and not ask if I would like to join her.

 

Are you saying that she actually tells you that you are not allowed to set foot in her kitchen, or simply that she sometimes doesn't invite you to join her when she is eating? What happens when you ask to join her? Have you ever asked her why she has these kinds of issues? That would be the best way to try to get to the root of what is causing all this to occur.

 

 

We are dating now, but dating is a test of the future and after speaking to many friends and unknowns, I have yet to find someone who does not find this behaviour anti-social and even controlling.

 

Maybe so, but I'm still not sure what your SO has actually done, I mean because you just haven't related any specific incidents with specific facts, it's all been very vague generalizations and seeming hyperbole.

 

(Oh yeah spelling "behaviour" with the "u" is the "British" way or the "Commonwealth" way which indicates you're most likely not from the USA, although I can't even tell if your SO is from the USA either)

 

 

Again, if she were constant in her wishes, I would be less concerned. What worries me is that she is free to make us tea or breakfast, but were I to do the same, she often gets upset.

 

OK you did get specific about ONE thing now that I recall--you made her tea and she didn't think it was hot enough. That doesn't sound like a very big deal.

 

Is it possible that she doesn't like your cooking? You need to talk to her about why she "gets upset" when you try to work around the kitchen.

 

 

 

If someone makes me food and it is not 100% perfect or not the meal I had in my head, I don't bitch about it.

 

Different strokes, right? I thought we'd agreed that everyone is different, in fact, you criticized me because you thought I believed there should be a "default" point of view?

 

 

 

I have actually never lived with someone like this.

 

Maybe not, but this is all very subjective. The only specific thing was the tea not being hot enough which is pretty trivial, right? But if I was trying to make some food for someone and they were constantly complaining, I would tell them to satisfy themselves and make their own, but I don't see why this is a "deal breaker" for you, at all.

 

 

 

So obviously this kind of behaviour is alarming and it would seem that this is an indication of her "my way or the highway" attitude.

 

But she didn't actually say that, right? She just criticized your kitchen skills, she didn't tell you if you didn't improve them you should leave the relationship, did she?

 

 

While you might think each one eating on her own is great, you clearly do not do the shopping or clean up in households where each member is living in this way. It is not easy to keep up with just one household of people sharing meals, much less one household of many people having different meals.

 

But, you're not in a "household" with your SO. Are you? I didn't get where you said you've moved in together, have you? (I thought you said it was just a "dating" relationship.)

 

 

 

 

Your analogy to a workshop and a garage does not work.

 

You don't have to agree with the specific analogy but do you understand the point I was trying to make, even if the analogy may have itself been somewhat flawed in your opinion? It doesn't have to be a kitchen; it doesn't have to be a workbench. It could be someone's desk at their office. It could be someone's sewing basket. It could be someone's diary. People assign emotional significance to possessions or even locations that they consider their "territory." It takes quite a bit of time and development of emotional intimacy with another person, before some people are adequately prepared to admit another person onto or into their "territory." You've only been dating for "several weeks" which is simply not enough time to have achieved a very high level of emotional intimacy and trust--even if you're having sex, even if you're having overnights.

 

 

 

This is not a shared workshop, this is a shared kitchen and living experience.

 

I'm sorry, I really missed where you posted that you had actually moved in together, which would signify the relationship has gone beyond "dating." I apologize for missing that wherever you posted it. All I can say is that if you had these concerns prior to moving in, there ideally should have been a lot more discussion about the divergence of viewpoints before moving in together. All you can do now, is try to communicate as fully as possible about it, without resentment, in order to try to salvage the relationship, if you want to that is.

 

If you haven't by some chance actually moved in together, then you are a guest in her kitchen, you are not really "sharing" her kitchen. It actually sounds like to your SO, you may be putting way too much pressure on your SO and trying to "force" the relationship forward to a place that it may not be quite ready to go yet.

 

 

 

I have lived with many people from roommates to lovers and we are just happy when we arrive at home and a meal is made.

 

By all means you should try to find compatible people if you are going to move in with them. From the huge deal you seem to be making out of, I'm not sure why, maybe you're just not compatible with your current SO and that incompatibility is simply manifesting itself via this particular issue.

 

 

You live with people and you learn what they like and dislike, allergies, etc. Livign with or visiting people is easy when you are with easy people. I wrote the problem on here to get outside ideas. Dating someone should not result in my not wanting to eat with my lover because she is incredibly picky about food, or even controlling. It is that simple.

 

I thought you said before that you want to eat with her, but she is (periodically?) banning you from the kitchen; now you're saying you don't want to eat with her, because she is too picky about food? If she's picky and you're not, why not just let her decide what the two of you eat, when, where, how, and whether together or separately? You're not the picky one. She is. Right?

 

I'm actually really curious about the conversations that the two of you have about this issue. She says, "OK now I'm going to eat a delicious roast beef sandwich, but you can't have any, stay out of my kitchen, I hereby ban you from lunchtime?" Yeah I guess if that's what's happening, it would be a total deal breaker, not because of any "food" or "meal" issue, just because it shows a total lack of respect for the other person.

 

 

 

I have tried to talk with her, but she is very difficult to talk with about this issue. She attaches notions of freedom to eating, but has no problem asking me to do everything as she does.

 

Sorry, but your posts, the way I read them anyway, are very inconsistent to the point of being confusing. If she insists you do everything as she does, then she's not banning you from the kitchen at mealtimes, she's simply saying you have to eat with her and what she eats as well. So maybe she's forcing you to eat the exact same thing she does?

 

But you just said you weren't the picky one, she was?

 

 

 

I'll tell you quite seriously OP, in my family, which consists of me, my wife, and three children under the age of 12, the best way I've found of resolving meal time dispute is to order pizza.

[GordonDarkfoot]

Well, she does not clean up after herself.

 

Each person will have different notions of the proper level of cleanliness. Assuming however your SO is a bit of a slob, how is that "controlling" you in any way? I assume she's leaving the dirty dishes in the sink or something? So called "controlling" people tend to be neat freaks, not messy.

 

Remember: her house, her rules apply. Your house--then your rules apply. But, I can think of things a lot worse than leaving a sink full of dirty dishes overnight. If that was the criteria for being in a relationship 95% of all men would be disqualified. (Be honest, men.)

 

You know, let me interpose a radical thought here. What do you think would happen if, the next time you're at your SO's place and she leaves it messy after a meal, you actually get up and clean up the dirty dishes for her? Do you think she might start to get the message?

 

 

Essentially she is used to doing a, b, y and z her whole life and she is not prepared to change that in a relationship where, for instance, I have had agreements with roommates and lovers that we all clean up after using the kitchen.

 

Obviously she must do the cleaning up at some point. Maybe just not when you're around? I bolded part of the above to ask you: How is she "controlling" of you because she does not seem willing to change to suit your standards?

 

 

 

Flying, yes, I am beginning to see that the food is the extreme limit of her inflexibility, but she is inflexible in other areas as well and I actually am beginning to think that she believes herself flexible, though she is not in the least.

 

Why don't you change to suit her? It makes about as much sense as her changing to suit you, and you're the far more flexible of the two of you.

 

 

 

For meals, well, I am not my partner's maid, chef, etc.

 

OK.

 

 

If someone wants to eat alone at meals, that is fine by me, but honestly, I would not want to live with someone whose idea of community is at her convenience--when she wants to be cooked for she snaps and I am to comply? I think not. Likewise, when I stay over, I end up having to clean up for she is quite comfortable in not cleaning up.

 

 

OK now I finally think I'm starting to get it. You're Felix Unger and she's Oscar Madison and it's starting to drive you up the wall.

 

It is not just that she leaves the dishes in the sink; it is that you cannot resist the impulse to clean those dishes up for her, and maybe she's taking advantage of you? Have you ever tried just leaving the dishes alone? Let them sit? After all you get to leave, she has to stay, it's her place, she'll have to deal with them eventually.

 

 

As for people eating apart constantly, this is fine for some, not for all. I do know living in many other countries outside North America, that people do eat together and there is no drama.

 

So it is "cultural" (at least in your mind?) She's from North America (Canadian perhaps?) you're not. You have never lived in North America (or you'd know what it's like here?) Look most "North Americans" have zero drama of the kind you're talking about, at least between two consenting adults in a relationship. Don't generalize on "North Americans" please?

 

 

There are also no spoiled children who complain about every little bit of food...and so forth.

 

LOL OK it's got to be cultural, now you're complaining about all those spoiled North American children?

 

If I have to take a wild guess I'm guessing you're from Germany, right?

 

Please give this question a straight answer, for a change? I'm very curious.

 

 

 

You might be comfortable with your individual situations, but I know for me personally, I would rather not live with someone who is so specific about food that she renders sharing a chore. I have lived with people my entire life and never once had a problem with meals...so yes, her quizzing me about what I would do or making me feel nervous so as not to cook breakfast or pour a second bowl of cereal is absurd to me.

 

Have you ever lived with anyone as part of a romantically-involved couple before? "Just the two of you"? You keep talking about having lived with other people, but never clarified what those living situations actually entailed. Frankly don't take this as being hurtful because it's not meant that way, but you seem entirely clueless about what's involved with actually living with another person, as a romantically-involved couple, on a "one on one" basis, over a long period of time. Not living in a dorm. Not living in your SO's room in a shared house. If I'm wrong about this, allow me to apologize in advance, but I've just NEVER heard of anyone in a romantic relationship making such a big deal out of meal times as you've been doing.

 

 

 

I do not think we are all alike, but I do think that adults need to cease being children and learn to accept, at times, that someone else cooked for you.

 

I'm going to apologize in advance for any perceived cultural or national bias, which is not intended; but assuming you're from Western Europe, I think there's a good likelihood you're German, or maybe have germanic culture somewhere in your background.

 

"You vill eat ziss food and you vill like it! Schnell!!!"

 

 

 

I think the level of pickiness at meals is an incredibly North American problem and though many describe the perfect situations in words, I have seen these split homes in reality where nobody cooks whole foods, people eat prefabricated food, and where obesity and ill-health are often the relationship between our alleged freedom to eat what and when we wish irrespective of our cohabitants and the ability of people to share responsibility in the kitchen and cook healthier meals together. I think we mistake freedom for individuality and this, for me, is a huge problem.

 

 

Your lover's kitchen is no place for this kind of political rant. No wonder you are having problems.

[michelangelo]

Sometimes one man's bagel is not so beguiling in the morning.

 

It's just breakfast.

[linwood]

If obfuscation were money the OP would be a very rich man.

 

Numerous posts and I still cannot comprehend what his/her actual problem is.

 

I`m probably just dense however.