foster2545 Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Background: My wife and I have been married just about 2 years. We are both 25. My parents divorced when I was 15 and hers are happily married after 30 years and incredible role models. 6 weeks ago she started an intense summer graduate school program where she lived with my parents as she took classes all day and returned home to me on weekends. I started noticing harmless texts with a new friend, study sessions at his house, etc., and even mentioned this. She explained it as making good new friends. I trusted her but I started feeling like she was growing distant. She attributed it to the stresses of grad school. I checked our call logs to see she'd call him right as she left the house for errands, or have lengthy conversations that wouldn't get mentioned at all when I asked what she did that day. School ended yesterday and I prepared for a big confrontation where I wanted to know exactly what was going on. She again insisted they're good friends and that was it. Last night, I checked her email. I found an IM conversation where they both said "I love you" and said each other were sexy. I printed this off and brought it up to her. I was mostly shocked, not angry, and more stunned than upset. As she revealed that she thinks she's in love with him, she also mentioned that she had doubts about our relationship for months but hoped they'd blow over; that we were "going through the motions" in our marriage and it took this new guy to realize it (and to see just how green that grass is on the other side). I did not feel any of this; these have unquestionably been the best years of my life. So, the following issues were presented: 1. She's in love with someone else. 2. She hid it from me. 3. She lied about it repeatedly when I asked. 4. She was "never 100% positive" that I was the right person. She insists nothing physical happened and I believe her. At that point she had no more reason to lie. The main things I brought up were the commitment I made on our wedding day, how seriously I took those vows, and the choices she has: Leave literally everything we've built up together for "six weeks of butterflies and proximity" (as I described him), or make a serious commitment to our marriage and confront him to call it off. To me, divorce is an absolute last resort. I'm not sure what she's leaning toward at this point and she couldn't answer yet. I did not vehemently shoot down any notion of her being with him as I probably should have. I told her I am willing to forgive if she is willing to put in the effort. However, I feel like I treated it as more of a sales pitch for rebuilding our relationship than a declaration of how awful what she did was. She left for the airport at 6:30 this morning to visit an out of state friend. This is a very close friend of both of ours with whom she plans to discuss this affair and I am confident that the friend has our marriage's interests in mind. But I also know that she spoke with Other Guy for almost an hour at 5:30am. I won't see her until Tuesday and I have no idea what to do in these next three days. Why do I feel I need to begin a period of self-improvement? Shouldn't she be the one throwing herself at my feet if she wants to save our marriage? Why am I feeling like I have to be impressive and wonderful all next week? My mom is coming to town today and I plan to bring it up. This all feels like a horrible dream and knowing that it's going to take months or years to recover from - if we recover at all - is still unfathomable. Been reading these boards all morning and it seemed like a good place to start. Thanks.
spriggig Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Your story is textbook. She "loves you but is not in love with you". She didn't just fall into this affair, she sought it out. It's very likely it's been a physical affair, not just an emotional affair. She has the same reasons to lie about this as she did about it being an affair in the first place--you have no evidence of a physical affair, yet. She doesn't want to face the guilt of what she has done and won't until she absolutely must. You haven't yet realized just how far she is gone. Women (more so than men) detach from the marriage before seeking a new partner. They just don't bother to tell the husband about this new situation--they don't want to confront the husband. They lie to themselves about what they are doing--so there is no chance they are telling the husband the whole truth. She has been considering divorce and probably planning on it. She will convince your mutual friend that there is nothing left between the two of you, she already believes this herself. The friend will be just as powerless to change her mind as you'll find you are. Your wife has been building these arguments in her mind for months, if not years. The wall was complete before she sought the relationship with the OM--it had to be for her to even consider such a horrible thing. Any hesitation or doubt she speaks of is for your benefit, to let you down easy and avoid guilt. You should do two things starting right now. First, seek out evidence that this has been a physical affair. Second, expose this affair to everyone, your family, her family and the family of the OM especially. Finally, when she returns on Tuesday, kick her out of your house and go solid NC. If you step up and do these things quickly, hardcore and with conviction, you just MIGHT be able to save this marriage. If you're wishy-washy and give her the benefit of a doubt, this marriage is done.
Author foster2545 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Posted July 31, 2010 Thank you for the reply. How would kicking her out of the house save the marriage? And what is NC? [sorry, new here.]
whichwayisup Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Your parents geniunely let her live with them, and she did this? To you? Let me ask, who is footing the bill for her schooling? You? 2 years into the marriage and she's chosen to cheat on you, not let you know that she's been questioning how she feels about you.. Not cool. At all. Instead, she let another man close to her, distancing herself from you more and more.. I usually don't tell people to throw in the towel without trying, but after only 2 years of marriage and this is how she communicates, or shall I say doesn't communicate with you, maybe consider divorcing her. It'll hurt and I am sorry for your pain, but is she worth fighting for? Is the marriage worth saving? She questioned things from day one, a big red flag...... Atleast she hasn't denied it or made it seem like you're crazy and it's all in your head.
Steadfast Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Please know that I am truly sorry that this is happening to you. To both of you. Understand that the road you are now on is worn down from travel, and the advice you'll get here has been earned by first hand experience. First, if she was either capable or desired to do what's right, your marriage wouldn't be in this position. Understand that after this kind of blow, you are in shock and therefore mentally trying to rebuild the relationship already. Not your fault; it is instinct. That starts with 'believing her' when she tells you something. Don't. Do not believe anything she is telling you right now. There's a very good chance that she isn't capable of expressing her true feelings at this time anyway, and everything that both of you are doing is reactionary. Right now, at this point, there is nothing to build on because the destruction of your marriage is still taking place. Here are the steps to take: -Know that her moving towards a physical relationship with him changes everything. Now and always, actions speak louder than words. If or when they have had sex, a critical, can-never-go-back boundary is crossed. -No one, not even the closest family friend or relative is going to convince her or change her mind. Why? Because she already knows what she's doing is wrong. To make it through, she will justify her actions by pointing out your faults and re-writing the history of your marriage. In other words, her emotional bondage (selfishness, entitlement, lust, longing) is stronger than any other emotion. She won't listen. She doesn't want to listen. -When she returns, you must simply ask her intentions. Do this with as little emotion as possible. If she waffles, cries or says 'I don't know' then insist she move out until she does. If you have children, she MUST leave and not you. Do not make this mistake. If no children are involved and she refuses to leave, then pack your things and go. Do not enable her more by living in limbo and waiting for the fog to clear. Do not allow her to keep you around for comfort or as a back up plan. If there be any hope for your marriage to survive, then you MUST do this. You must act with strength and demonstrate through your actions that you will not sit idly by and watch her destroy your marriage. Show (don't tell) her she is losing you. You are part of the fog. Remove yourself, and the fog will quickly dissipate. In the meantime, resist any temptation to lash out at her, call names, raise your voice or any action that you'll regret later. Do these things alone, or with a trusted friend. Leave her be and do not tell her that you love her. She knows. Let her stand on the ground she's created for herself and let it try to support her. Chances are, it will not be able to. In the meantime eat, sleep and pray. You will make it, and be better.
spriggig Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Virtually no one supports an affair--mom, dad, siblings, friends--they all will denounce her actions. Same for the OM. Affairs thrive in secrecy, shine a light on it and it withers and dies. As long as she has the OM to whisper in her ear and tell her she's doing the right thing, she'll never come out of the fog--until it's way too late. Searching for evidence of a physical affair will fuel your conviction to expose the affair, kick her out and go No Contact. Kicking her out is the level of wake up call she needs. You're late to the game here, very late. You're at a huge disadvantage, she tore down your marriage behind your back and she has one foot out the door. Only drastic ACTION has any chance of turning this around. For way too long, she has only been hearing one side of the story--her own (and now the OM is supporting her). You've been absent from the conversation. The problem is, she won't listen to your side until she comes out of the fog and sees what she is really giving up--that is your side of the story.
Author foster2545 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Posted July 31, 2010 Divorce is a last resort. I'm not willing to consider it before I know whether she's willing to end the affair and work on our marriage.
norajane Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Thank you for the reply. How would kicking her out of the house save the marriage? And what is NC? [sorry, new here.] It takes her affair out of the fantasy realm and forces her to deal with the reality of what she is doing to your marriage. It forces her to face up to her actions, and realize that she can't just fool around and you'll sit back like a doormat and make it easy for her. It forces her to make a decision - does she want to save this marriage, or deal with what it means to have an affair and leave for another man. Basically, it forces her to deal with the consequences of her behavior and can be the wake-up call she needs of the reality that will smack her in the face. The last thing you should be doing is SUPPORTING her in her affair! This could be just an infatuation and attraction that she wasn't smart enough not to act on. Or it could be that she was too immature to get married in the first place and in no way capable of making a lifetime commitment. Or it could be that she was so enamored of "getting" married that she completely ignored what "being" married means. Or it could be that you were not the right man for her. Whatever it is, don't sit back and allow her to continue having her affair and talking to this guy for hours every day while you hold your head in your hands and watch.
norajane Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Divorce is a last resort. I'm not willing to consider it before I know whether she's willing to end the affair and work on our marriage. Then the first thing she needs to agree to is to have zero contact with this guy. If she won't agree to that, your marriage is already over.
Author foster2545 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Posted July 31, 2010 Then the first thing she needs to agree to is to have zero contact with this guy. If she won't agree to that, your marriage is already over. I agree with this. I wonder if I lost ground or ruined anything by how passively I handled it last night.
xpaperxcutx Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Divorce is a last resort. I'm not willing to consider it before I know whether she's willing to end the affair and work on our marriage. Not getting a divorce does not mean the marriage will not dissolve on it's own, she's already playing the affairs game and saying she's not in "love" with you. I wonder if I lost ground or ruined anything by how passively I handled it last night. Well it hardly sounded like you were mad at her for indulging in this EA ( emotional affair). And really, why would you let her head off to a friend's place when it's important that the both of you work on your marriage? If anyone was to leave a while, you should be the one slamming doors and storming out of the house for being betrayed. Either way, do what norajane says and don't be so passive about everything.
spriggig Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Divorce is a last resort. I'm not willing to consider it before I know whether she's willing to end the affair and work on our marriage. Exactly. The first step is ending the affair--exposing it should accomplish that. She is in LOVE with her "soulmate"--that is what she thinks. It's the same love she felt for you when she married you. What she is doing here is akin to rebelling against her dad with a "bad" boyfriend. You're the dad. She is giddy with excitement over her new, shiny boyfriend--someone who "really gets her", unlike you. In reality, the new boyfriend is not better than you or worse, just different. And she can't see his human flaws because he has been on his best behavior for her. Never attack the boyfriend, don't even speak his name. Anything good you say about the boyfriend means you understand why she must leave. Anything bad you say about the boyfriend is ignored because "you don't know him" (like I do, and he's wonderful!). You can't win.
Steadfast Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Guys, why expose the affair? Hasn't she's already admitted to it? Divorce is a last resort. I'm not willing to consider it before I know whether she's willing to end the affair and work on our marriage. Not to sound egotistical, but please go back and read my first post. It basically encapsulates the other advice you've received here. Stop being in denial and STOP following your instincts. It's the best advice you'll get. I'm sorry you're going through this. Really. But listen to what's being said.
Iconoclast Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 As Spriggig said, this is classic textbook affair behavior. What you don't know, but most here do, is affairs follow a fairly narrow pattern... better than 90% of the time. What you need to do: She has the power in this relationship, you now reclaim it. Expose it to everyone. Affairs thrive in secrecy. She must go No Contact, and that means NO!, None, Nada, Zilch. She contacts him on the phone in your presence and tells him it's over. You monitor all her communication (spy), she lost her right to privacy. You do not talk to her about your relationship, unless she comes to you, and the conversation is about making your relationship whole. Do not whine, cling, or beg. Do not leave your home. It's your home! If she chooses to leave, the help her pack her bags. Be strong, be a rock, stoic. No tears in her presence. It will make you more attractive to her. Protect yourself financially, protect the funds that are yours, protect your paycheck, take her name off everything you can. Get a lawyer and start the divorce process. You don't have to go through with it, it's a tool that shows you are dead serious. Do this all quickly, like start RIGHT NOW. Do not give her a moment to think, plan or strategize. She won't know what hit her. It will make you more desirable. Show you have some fight in you. Optional: Consider contacting the other guy...AFTER!... doing the above. Make sure he understands he's inserting himself into a good relationship. Because, he may not have a clue, everything he knows about you, came from her. Good luck, and use this forum for strategy. You'll need it. Good luck.
xpaperxcutx Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 As Spriggig said, this is classic textbook affair behavior. What you don't know, but most here do, is affairs follow a fairly narrow pattern... better than 90% of the time. What you need to do: She has the power in this relationship, you now reclaim it. Expose it to everyone. Affairs thrive in secrecy. She must go No Contact, and that means NO!, None, Nada, Zilch. She contacts him on the phone in your presence and tells him it's over. You monitor all her communication (spy), she lost her right to privacy. You do not talk to her about your relationship, unless she comes to you, and the conversation is about making your relationship whole. Do not whine, cling, or beg. Do not leave your home. It's your home! If she chooses to leave, the help her pack her bags. Be strong, be a rock, stoic. No tears in her presence. It will make you more attractive to her. Protect yourself financially, protect the funds that are yours, protect your paycheck, take her name off everything you can. Get a lawyer and start the divorce process. You don't have to go through with it, it's a tool that shows you are dead serious. Do this all quickly, like start RIGHT NOW. Do not give her a moment to think, plan or strategize. She won't know what hit her. It will make you more desirable. Show you have some fight in you. Optional: Consider contacting the other guy...AFTER!... doing the above. Make sure he understands he's inserting himself into a good relationship. Because, he may not have a clue, everything he knows about you, came from her. Good luck, and use this forum for strategy. You'll need it. Good luck. That, my friend, is classic.
spriggig Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Guys, why expose the affair? Hasn't she's already admitted to it? The point of exposure is to attempt to stop the affair dead. Remember, OP has just discovered the affair, he still loves his wife very much and probably wants to reconcile. Reconciliation can't happen while the affair is going on. I've paid my lawyer, he's writing up the papers and I'll be signing next week, probably. I'm cynical and doubtful that OP can save his marriage, but I fully support any attempt he makes to do so. At the very least, he can look back and say "I did everything I could do." That is all I can say now, but it DOES help to be able to say that.
karnak Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 From all the stories I've been reading in Loveshack (and I've been here for 5 years now) it seems most women (almost all) don't want to "go back" when they stop "falling in love". They only regret their decision to leave the marriage some years down the road.
YellowShark Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 It's funny. I have been on LS since my breakup 3 months ago and I've read this type of thread 20 times now. Yet each time it was written by a different poster. I agree with the others... total textbook. So, the following issues were presented: 1. She's in love with someone else. 2. She hid it from me. 3. She lied about it repeatedly when I asked. 4. She was "never 100% positive" that I was the right person. She insists nothing physical happened and I believe her. At that point she had no more reason to lie. She is lying Foster. She is sad she was caught, she is not sad she betrayed you. If you want her then she must do the following: 1) Go 100% NC with the OM. 2) Give you full access at all times to her cell, email, Facebook, everything. 3) She must immediately seek counselling for herself. 4) You both must seek marriage counselling. Until all those conditions are met by her, you cannot trust a word she says. Sorry. I realize that this may seem harsh, but she made her choices and now she has to live with the consequences.
TrustInYourself Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 It's been a long time since I posted here so forgive me if I'm a bit obtuse. Passive or Aggressive doesn't matter at this point. You can be loving yet tough. Create consequences and respect her decisions. Just be ready for decisions that hurt you. What is the best way to win your marriage back at this point? Focus on yourself and not her. Lead through your positive actions and not her negative actions. Be the better man, not for her, but for yourself. Live life for yourself and to the fullest. At some point in your marriage, you've compromised a part of what makes you who you are to be a better husband. It's time to reclaim yourself in this ordeal. That's how you survive and thrive in this situation. Don't be led by your emotions. Be strong and show no sadness, no regret, no remorse. You're not at fault here, so be upbeat as much as possible. A good person will find happiness, whatever the form it make take. Take care and best wishes.
2sunny Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I agree with this. I wonder if I lost ground or ruined anything by how passively I handled it last night. yes. what do you have to lose by being firm and strong for what is right? it's obvious she isn't willing to do the right thing - why should you bend down to her sub standards? that's what you're doing when you go along with her little plan. that's what she's ultimately asked you to do - and you are willingly participating. why? tell her since her actions don't show you that she's a wife with honor and respect for you to get out now! have a boundary and stick to it... you are allowing her to treat you like a door mat! stop.
Iconoclast Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I agree with this. I wonder if I lost ground or ruined anything by how passively I handled it last night. Perhaps. But if you follow the advice, i've and others have given, and I do mean FOLLOW IT, no halfway. You have a chance. Another BIG reason to act quickly is this, she is re-writing your history, in her mind, to the OM, and any one who will listen, she'll want their support for her affair. You WANT them to know the TRUTH. Get busy, beat her to the punch. What i'd do. I'd call her and tell her to get home now, or don't come back, if you don't come back. I file for divorce. Period. No negotiation. Because, she's talking it up with the OM while away, guaranteed, and how do you REALLY KNOW who she's with right now? Confirm, if you can. Is she solvent financially on her own? Or are you footing the bill for her affair? You are now at war, she launched first strike. Do you want to win? OR I can show you 100's of posts, of betrayed spouses who don't take the advice. They are miserable, beaten, shells. Who out of fear of losing their wayward, lost themselves and their spouse. Wanna live in hell, and I do mean HELL for a year or more?
Author foster2545 Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 Well, it's a new day, and I can see they spent 65 minutes on the phone last night around midnight. I wonder what you talk about for an hour at midnight. I doubt you talk about your marriages and how you should no longer be speaking. So that means the EA has gone on 4 weeks without me knowing while lying about it, as well as 2 days WITH me knowing about it - and her best friend whose house she's staying at.
YellowShark Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 So that means the EA has gone on 4 weeks without me knowing while lying about it, as well as 2 days WITH me knowing about it - and her best friend whose house she's staying at. Like I said. "She is lying Foster. She is sad she was caught, she is not sad she betrayed you." Treat her as an enemy of the state, and the state is you, and your marriage.
Author foster2545 Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 I'm resigned to the fact that when she gets home tomorrow she won't be willing to go NC tomorrow and she'll be moving out for a time. At that point, how often do I contact her? None, because she knows what the stakes are? Or occasionally, as I am still her husband, to continue to let her know I'm willing to work on our marriage and try to convince her that it's the right thing to do?
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