Sick of the Dating and Game Playing Circus

[Sphere]

In order to succeed with women, you need to understand women, and clearly you don't. ]

 

I don't constitute getting with a woman, or having sex with a woman as success. To me it is natural, it's ingrained in our genes. A woman doesn't determine how successful I am as a person. I determine how successful I am as a person and to me a man who helps creates the world's fatest fighter jet or a man help engineer a project like the Golden Gate Bridge is more successful than a man who goes through life chalking up notches on his bed post or a man who has the "perfect" family life.

 

"If you understand women, then you cannot possibly love women."

[Sphere]

 

This is her thread and not mine.

.

 

Yet you are attempting to do what nice guys do and that is come to her aid as if you were a knight in shining armour.

 

FYI I wouldn't bolt from a woman who was coming to see me in three days. When I'm in a relationship with a girl, I slowly, but surely reveal all the cards in my deck that are placed close to my chest.

 

I'm great boyfriend material when I'm with the right woman.

[SassyKitten]

Sphere - "If you understand women, then you cannot possibly love women." Who said that and how so? That's a load of crap to me. What I am making an active effort to do on here is to truly understand men so that I can love one.

 

Glad that you don't go to second base and beyond untill you're truly on the same page. I do read the posts in their entirety by the way, but I wonder if you read mine in their entirety as you seem to think that I am quite the dominating, nagging woman.

 

It sounds like what you want is a woman who will let you be the center of your universe, revolve around you, and drop the career she has worked so hard for as soon as she has your children, just because she's the one who carries them for 9 months.

 

Just be considerate of the women you're dating. Us women are allowed by society to feel things, good or bad, so much more than men are, and it is often to our detriment.

 

Also, I do have a male platonic friend who I've been talking to a lot about these things, and he says that I do get attached too easily because of a combination of my libido and the fact that I live in an area with limited options, and keeps saying I should just get a rabbit and call it a day. And he's probably right, a rabbit would be so much more satisfying than meaningless sex, and it can't **** with my emotions.

Edited August 2, 2010 by SassyKitten

[Sphere]

Sphere - "If you understand women, then you cannot possibly love women." Who said that and how so? That's a load of crap to me. What I am making an active effort to do on here is to truly understand men so that I can love one.

 

Glad that you don't go to second base and beyond untill you're truly on the same page. I do read the posts in their entirety by the way, but I wonder if you read mine in their entirety as you seem to think that I am quite the dominating, nagging woman.

 

It sounds like what you want is a woman who will let you be the center of your universe, revolve around you, and drop the career she has worked so hard for as soon as she has your children, just because she's the one who carries them for 9 months.

 

Just be considerate of the women you're dating. Us women are allowed by society to feel things, good or bad, so much more than men are, and it is often to our detriment.

 

Also, I do have a male platonic friend who I've been talking to a lot about these things, and he says that I do get attached too easily because of a combination of my libido and the fact that I live in an area with limited options, and keeps saying I should just get a rabbit and call it a day. And he's probably right, a rabbit would be so much more satisfying than meaningless sex, and it can't **** with my emotions.

 

You don't need to understand men, you need to find a man who is right for you and he needs to the feel the same way. It's not rocket science, it's human nature ingrained in us. It's just that social constructs like feminism have replaced human nature with laws made by sad, bitter women and men.

 

You are a naggy, dominating woman, I actually wonder what I'm doing debating with you, because had we gotten into this discussion in person, I would have gotten my point across plainly and left straight after.

 

I am considerate of the women I am dating, but I'm not going to appease their every whim. If a woman wants to know where she stands with me, all she has to do is ask me, she'll get an honest response.

 

As for trying to understand me and pyscho-analyze me, it is probably best you don't seeing as you yourself have admitted you do not understand men.

[SassyKitten]

You don't need to understand men, you need to find a man who is right for you and he needs to the feel the same way. It's not rocket science, it's human nature ingrained in us. It's just that social constructs like feminism have replaced human nature with laws made by sad, bitter women and men.

 

You are a naggy, dominating woman, I actually wonder what I'm doing debating with you, because had we gotten into this discussion in person, I would have gotten my point across plainly and left straight after.

 

I am considerate of the women I am dating, but I'm not going to appease their every whim. If a woman wants to know where she stands with me, all she has to do is ask me, she'll get an honest response.

 

As for trying to understand me and pyscho-analyze me, it is probably best you don't seeing as you yourself have admitted you do not understand men.

 

Well there we go, I am a naggy dominating woman!! Which is a very common accusation of men who are simply looking for someone to shut up, look good, and cater to their every whim!

 

And "human nature" is the saddest excuse in the book to reinforce the status quo which has screwed over many, including myself, for centuries. "Human nature" is also a common excuse used by rapists.

 

I suppose though you would be considerate of women you're dating, if she's the brainwashed airhead that so many, including yourself obviously, are after. Who are the type of women, by the way, are very easy to be considerate towards as they're happy to be walked on.

 

You clearly don't, and don't want to, understand women either. So stop blowing me off as a "dominating, nagging" woman. My actions are to claim my place in the world without being a victim any longer. But ok, I guess according to men like you I should just shut up and do as I'm told. If I'm single for longer because of that, so be it, it's better than being some man's bitch.

[Sphere]

Much of what you say is not wroth a response.

 

 

 

With that attitude, I hope you don't date women with promising careers.

 

Then do not reply to it.

 

Women can still maintain promising careers when they have children. They simply spend a year or so at home and then send the child to playgroup, then nursery and then primary school and secondary school or at least that is how it is done in my country. A woman will take a maximum of two years out of her career and that is a small price to pay if she wants children.

[SassyKitten]

Then do not reply to it.

 

Women can still maintain promising careers when they have children. They simply spend a year or so at home and then send the child to playgroup, then nursery and then primary school and secondary school or at least that is how it is done in my country. A woman will take a maximum of two years out of her career and that is a small price to pay if she wants children.

 

Didn't you say untill they're off to school in one of your previous threads? In the 50s, standard practice was if the woman returned to work at all, it wouldn't be untill the youngest child was in school, which sounded a lot like what you wanted.

[zengirl]

Sphere - A man doesn't have to screw as many women as possible to be a player, he can also be a player through leading women on and playing with their emotions. Sounds like by your definition, dating is fun, for you, at the woman's expense. You said yourself jerks don't call themselves jerks, but looking from the outside, your attitude screams "jerk".

 

Yeah, I'm going with this. I'm not against multi-dating when it's sincere "feeling folks out" and I'd never be bothered by a fellow who happened to be seeing a few girls at the same time he met/started seeing me, so long as they were all really early stages. I date around too. (I don't stop considering or talking to men until I'm committed, but I also don't have sex until then.)

 

But the way you've described it in other threads, Sphere. . . you're not even really seeing the women as people. I believe you've also referred to women as various animals. It's one thing to say "dating is not a relationship" (everybody healthy knows that, and too many people go the opposite way sometimes), but it's another to say you can see a woman, sleep with her, and not owe her anything. There isn't some magic point at which a person starts becoming a real person. . . everybody you meet, they are all whole, total people with their own emotions, dreams, and problems, and they don't need to be an object in your life.

 

I believe SassyKitten has been with men who sound just like that, so I think the comparisons of you and those jerks. . .they sound pretty right-on to me. Most jerks are jerks for the same reason: They see the girl (or fellow) as an object or a goal, rather than a whole person. Whatever behavior this leads to, however, it manifests, the beginnings are the same.

 

Also, in a healthy relationship, men do cater to the woman AND women cater to the men. it's called an equal exchange. It's called taking care of each other. I have been hurt when I've ended up being the only one who does the catering, as I'm sure so many of what you call "nice guys" have as well.

 

But you clearly seem to want a relationship that's about massaging your ego and allowing you to play out so-called alpha male instincts. Welcome to the 21st Century, wake up and smell the coffee!!

 

Word. But, really, don't get down about folks like him. You care too much about men wanting submissive females and such. . . look, so long as they aren't legislating it or instituting it in the workplace, these guys are totally avoidable once you fine tune your people-picker. Which I'm sure you'll do.

 

I'm starting to wonder if people actually read my posts or do they just skim read it and reply to the bits that stand out to them?

 

Since you've written in several topics here about being misunderstood, why do you persist in trying to make it about other people's reading skills? Generally, if you have to ask this question . . . the problem is within.

 

For the record: Honestly, I don't care how you date, so I cut that. I did read it, so don't accuse me of not reading things. I just think the point they're making about you being a jerk has a lot more to do with your name-calling, angry phrasing, objectifying people (this doesn't have to be sexual and, in fact, usually isn't), and totally ego-istic, self-centered philosophy.

 

Also . . . why on earth do angry dudes keep randomly bringing up feminism? What does my right to vote, control my own body, and make equal pay for equal work have to do with my love life? I've never seen any correlation. (Though, please, rant about it in person so that decent girls can run away from you! Please.)

 

At any rate, SassyKitten, this is a big key: Most jerks don't think they're jerks. Let's use this as Exhibit A.

[BrokenHeartedBoy]

Your story kind of makes me want to cry... I could just imagine what you've been through... That's horrible... And I see now you're looking for a serious-serious relationship... Which is good... You've turned the tables from ****ing-Loving... I feel really sad that no man has told you they loved you... I'm going through a similar situation... Except it's Vassily different with a guy who likes to play games... You can search for my story just type my username in search... I think you just need to test loyalty... Find a website that your man is on make an account... Play the loyalty game... Pretend to be another woman... This strategy worked for me 100%... Playing games is not good... Considering i'm going through one now... But the "Test Loyalty Game" should be the only game you should play and when you get the answer you want "Is he loyal or not?" then you know you might have found someone special... I wish best of luck and i'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers!!! Good luck to you, sweetie!!! You're a strong woman that will soon get what she wants!! -Because you are still strong! <333

[SassyKitten]

Zengirl - Lesson definitely taken on board, that most jerks don't think they're jerks!

 

Also, why do so many men react the the word "feminism" in the same way so many people react to the word "Holocaust"? All it is about is us having an equal place in the word. It's nothing to be defensive about. I'm white, but I don't shudder in fear when I hear the term "civil rights", I'm actually happy that because of "civil rights" that many people who I'm happy to call my friend have the same opportunities I do!

[Sphere]

Zengirl, where have I said that I sleep with all of these women? Do quote me directly.

[SassyKitten]

I have an idea which may be new to you.

 

How about you let the woman decide when she is ready to go back to work after having children?

 

Exactly, thank you!

[Sphere]

Zengirl - Lesson definitely taken on board, that most jerks don't think they're jerks!

 

If you think I'm a jerk then you seriously need to meet a lot of men I know, these men will lead a woman on, sleep with her all the while promising the moon and stars and then they bolt. I don't do this and yet I'm chucked in the same category.

 

You know what? I have had enough of this thread. I'm far being from a jerk, not because I don't think I am, but because I am not a jerk.

 

I have never once intentionally hurt someone. I don't sleep around, I don't commit adultery, nor am I abusive, hell I wouldn't ever hold my hand to a woman's face.

 

Yes, but I'm like all of these guys. It's attitudes that are seeing more and more men remaining in bacherlorhood, refusing to open their vaults, refusing to marry, and have children.

[zengirl]

Zengirl - Lesson definitely taken on board, that most jerks don't think they're jerks!

 

Also, why do so many men react the the word "feminism" in the same way so many people react to the word "Holocaust"? All it is about is us having an equal place in the word. It's nothing to be defensive about. I'm white, but I don't shudder in fear when I hear the term "civil rights", I'm actually happy that because of "civil rights" that many people who I'm happy to call my friend have the same opportunities I do!

 

I've only ever noticed this backlash to feminism here, really. And in Christian communities, but that's part of why I'm not Christian, I suppose. Or part of why I figured it out sooner. I suppose people just need something to blame for their love lives not turning out how they like them.

 

Zengirl, where have I said that I sleep with all of these women? Do quote me directly.

 

I didn't say you did perse. I was talking to both you and SassyKitten, and equating her issues with fellows like you. It doesn't make your overall attitude any better. As I made the point at the end, the issue isn't any specific thing like sleeping with a girl and not calling her. . . you separate yourself from those guys even though you objectify people the same way. As I said, it's not always a sexual thing. (For the record: Referring to women as types of animals and writing angry things strikes me as much more of a red flag than a fellow who sleeps around.)

 

I'm not sure if I was unclear or you're being deliberately obtuse on that (or in denial), but I'll leave that for others to decide, not you or I.

[Sphere]

How about you let the woman decide when she is ready to go back to work after having children?

 

Alright, I'll do that, but she'll receive no financial support from me until she goes back to work. I will use my money accordingly. Fair? I think so!

[zengirl]

Alright, I'll do that, but she'll receive no financial support from me until she goes back to work. I will use my money accordingly. Fair? I think so!

 

I'm sure the gal you'll land with that attitude (if any) will be a real keeper.

 

See, this is why people are saying your messages walk and quack like a jerk so to speak. This attitude is way domineering and controlling, and that's a turnoff in men and women. . . at least to healthy people.

[Sphere]

I'm sure the gal you'll land with that attitude (if any) will be a real keeper.

 

See, this is why people are saying your messages walk and quack like a jerk so to speak. This attitude is way domineering and controlling, and that's a turnoff in men and women. . . at least to healthy people.

 

I'm giving her the opportunity to go back to work, she'll work. I'll pay for the children's care, their clothes and food and she can look after herself and her career. I'll raise the children. If she wants a better car, she can pay for it, if she wants to go out for a meal she can take her friends etc.

 

I think that's fair.

[SassyKitten]

(For the record: Referring to women as types of animals and writing angry things strikes me as much more of a red flag than a fellow who sleeps around.)

 

I'm not sure if I was unclear or you're being deliberately obtuse on that (or in denial), but I'll leave that for others to decide, not you or I.

 

Exactly. There are different types of jerk, and degrees of jerk. There are the kinds who score notches on their bedpost, who think their place is to boss their woman around, and both. And Sphere, your posts are giving many of us evidence that you're the type to order the woman around.

 

It is no man's place to tell me when I can and cannot work! I have seen how that screws women over in action in my own family, with extremely abusive consequences.

[Sphere]

In a marriage it should be "our money".

 

I'll refuse to have a joint bank account with anyone and I will have a pre-nup agreement drawn up before marriage that states that the woman will get nothing from me if the marriage fails. Only the children will get financial support and that money has to spent solely on the children.

[SassyKitten]

I'll refuse to have a joint bank account with anyone and I will have a pre-nup agreement drawn up before marriage that states that the woman will get nothing from me if the marriage fails. Only the children will get financial support and that money has to spent solely on the children.

 

All the more reason for both the man and woman to work then. So if the marriage does fail, the woman won't be up ****'s creek. As I witnessed and learned from firsthand.

[zengirl]

I'm giving her the opportunity to go back to work, she'll work. I'll pay for the children's care, their clothes and food and she can look after herself and her career. I'll raise the children. If she wants a better car, she can pay for it, if she wants to go out for a meal she can take her friends etc.

 

I think that's fair.

 

What kind of a marriage is that? Seriously?

 

And you're "giving" her the opportunity. Really? It doesn't get much more egoistic than that.

 

Relationships are about coming together and planning a way through life together. They're not about hammering down some sort of weird contract or looking to get yours.

 

Originally Posted by Sphere

I'll refuse to have a joint bank account with anyone and I will have a pre-nup agreement drawn up before marriage that states that the woman will get nothing from me if the marriage fails. Only the children will get financial support and that money has to spent solely on the children.

 

Generally speaking, I'm not against pre-nups or even folks having separate bank accounts (my mom and step-father did for years and slowly but surely integrated their funds over the years, as they were both in 2nd marriages). It's your attitude towards it that's foul.

 

Also, how can you marry someone who'd agree to this and not work. That's just putting herself in a terrible condition.

Edited August 2, 2010 by zengirl

[Sphere]

What kind of a marriage is that? Seriously?

 

And you're "giving" her the opportunity. Really? It doesn't get much more egoistic than that.

 

Relationships are about coming together and planning a way through life together. They're not about hammering down some sort of weird contract or looking to get yours.

 

I'm being deliberately provocative.

 

In fact a vast majority of my posts in threads have been me unleashing after people tried to swoop down on me.

 

Try and back me in the corner and watch me explode. I agree that two people should try and work together in a relationship. I have never disputed this, nor would I ever try and make all the decisions on my own. I simply said I will lead, I never said I will dominate or conquer or demand or expect. I said I would lead and every feminist participating in this thread came looking for blood and tried to wear me down with pyscho-analysis and yet have failed miserably.

 

A valiant effort though by all accounts.

 

In my country a woman gets a years maternity to leave to be with her child, after that she has to comeback regardless and if she was so into her career then I would recommend that a nanny or carer is bought into look after the child, but the problem with that is the amount of potential dangers there with carers. I don't trust them.

[SassyKitten]

I'm being deliberately provocative.

 

In fact a vast majority of my posts in threads have been me unleashing after people tried to swoop down on me.

 

Try and back me in the corner and watch me explode. I agree that two people should try and work together in a relationship. I have never disputed this, nor would I ever try and make all the decisions on my own. I simply said I will lead, I never said I will dominate or conquer or demand or expect. I said I would lead and every feminist participating in this thread came looking for blood and tried to wear me down with pyscho-analysis and yet have failed miserably.

 

A valiant effort though by all accounts.

 

In my country a woman gets a years maternity to leave to be with her child, after that she has to comeback regardless and if she was so into her career then I would recommend that a nanny or carer is bought into look after the child, but the problem with that is the amount of potential dangers there with carers. I don't trust them.

 

So that your words aren't misinterpreted as your composition skills have given us an impression that suggests otherwise, a simple yes/no question:

 

In the relationship you want, is the woman allowed to lead WITH you?

[Sphere]

:

 

In the relationship you want, is the woman allowed to lead WITH you?

 

If she wants too, but she had best know how to be strong, because leaders aren't weaklings who sit there and cry into their lap, if she wants to lead she had best know how to lead. She had best know how to fix things around the house and she had best know how to compromise otherwise we'll have a lot of blazing arguments.

 

But any mention of the feminist doctrine and I will be gone. There is a poster on here called Jersey Shortie I'd rather die then spend a nano second with her.

[SassyKitten]

If she wants too, but she had best know how to be strong, because leaders aren't weaklings who sit there and cry into their lap, if she wants to lead she had best know how to lead. She had best know how to fix things around the house and she had best know how to compromise otherwise we'll have a lot of blazing arguments.

 

But any mention of the feminist doctrine and I will be gone. There is a poster on here called Jersey Shortie I'd rather die on my own than spend a nano second with her.

 

Well strength is one of the best qualities I can bring to the table, and I'm surprised that more men haven't mentioned it as a desirable female trait! Ok, not surprised really.

 

Anyway, I'm not so mechanical, but seeing as I'm an accountant, unless I end up with someone who is also an accountant then I'm the better one to be balancing the checkbook. While his strengths might be something else, like fixing leaky pipes. And if neither of us are good at fixing leaky pipes, then we can use our combined wealth to get a plumber to come in.

 

That is what I call teamwork.

 

Still, the aversion that so many men feel to the word "feminist" is shocking. Feminism is about women wanting to be on the same level of prestige that men have been able to take for granted for forever. It's not about compromising who a man is as a person. And if either person compromises who the other person is as a person, regardless of gender, then that's not love.